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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default White Wolf Vampire setting

    Hello!
    I was thinking about running a game in the White Wolf Vampire setting, because one of my potential players says that its one he's enjoyed in the past and would like to do again. I was wondering, what do the experts (you guys ) think of that setting? I'm doing research into it, but if anyone has direct experience with or strong feelings attached to that setting, I would love to hear your thoughts.
    I'm in the middle of playing a Ravenloft game right now, if that helps. Since its with the same company, it probably carries a similar feel?
    Thank you!

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    Goober4473's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    I don't have any experience with Vampire: the Requiem, but I know the new World of Darkness system is pretty good. But, in the end, I absolutely love Vampire: the Masquerade, and I'll probably never update. Either one is probably good though.

    I don't know Ravenloft very well, but it could be a similar feel. The idea is basically that vampires, no matter what they do, always become monsters, and lose themselves to their beast within, even if it takes thousands of years. It's sort of a hopeless setting in that way. Kinda like how humans always die. But it's not about dying. It's about what you do beforehand.

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    dyslexicfaser's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    I've played Vampire: the Masquerade a couple times, and I'm a fan.

    From what I hear, Ravenloft is like D&D - Vampire isn't really much like that. The thing to remember, for the games I played in at least, is relative power. Even as a newbie, 14th generation vampire, you can kill pretty much any human with ease, regenerate lost limbs... that sort of thing. But you are in turn checked by older vampires, who can (and will!) kill you like a human swatting a bug if you bother them.

    In other words, you have to be very careful who you pick a fight with. Many sessions can go by without having to break out your Celerity or whatever vampire powers you prefer to wield. It's a lot more about Machiavellian schemes and power plays.

    ... unless you play as the Sabbat, of course. Then, go to town.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Thank you for the input! This helps alot. :)

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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Vampire is the setting that made White Wolf famous, and with good reason. It is very atmospherical, offers pyschological intrigue, and has characters that are very strong in some ways (discipline) but also very week in others (blood bond, sunlight = poof).

    Ravenloft is almost entirely unrelated. Ravenloft is mostly hack and slash where you fight with evil monsters; in Vampire, you are the evil monsters (whether you admit it or not) and you don't hack and slash overly much because it'll get you killed in short order.

    Vampire isn't about combat. Sure, you can fight, especially if you're Brujah or Gangrel, and you can lord it over the Breathing as much as you like. But if you're really fighting, you're doing something wrong.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Vampire isn't about combat. Sure, you can fight, especially if you're Brujah or Gangrel, and you can lord it over the Breathing as much as you like. But if you're really fighting, you're doing something wrong.
    ...or you're the City Sheriff.

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    Goblin

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Ravenloft is a D&D property acquired by White Wolf, with all that entails. Even if it is more survival-horror-y than standard D&D.

    Vampire is a White Wolf original, with all that entails. It's more about thinking about what being undead and operating in a vampire society would be like. That is, of course, a massive oversimplification and should only be taken as a rough descriptor. Most people just use it to vent teen angst, it seems.
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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    in Vampire, you are the evil monsters (whether you admit it or not) and you don't hack and slash overly much because it'll get you killed in short order.
    What's the sourcebook quote, "beasts we are, lest beasts we become?"

    And it's kind of embarrassing, but most of the V:tM players I know are overly-dramatic teenagers. Doesn't mean it can't be an awesome medium. When played right, I tend to prize a good V:tM over D&D and its related properties.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    I have no experience with V:tM, but V:tR is very good. It may get a bit over dramatic in certain instances, but if played right, it can be quite good.

    Setting is a portion of the game that White Wolf takes very seriously. The Chicago setting is the "default". It is a well written environment well worth looking at. There has also been a great source book published, called Damnation City, 400 pages of Vampire city fluff, with few mechanics.

    To tell the truth, Vampire can be played in a wide variety of different ways, that mostly depend on the setting. In Chicago, for example, the prince has a law about not killing and not creating kindred. That encourages a fairly political game, with violence between vampires being quite rare. Other cities, where no such laws exist, it may be common for vampires to ash each other.

    Yithian

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Good setting. More roleplaying and storytelling. One nice aspect is you can get a lot of the source books online pretty cheap.

    Think D20 Modern with different rules and a lot less magic (House Tremere primary).

    Vampire adventures. (Powers mostly determined by Generation and Vampire House Clan) with different societies. Start mixing it up with Ghouls, Hunters, Werewolves and Magi.
    Last edited by CASTLEMIKE; 2007-08-16 at 10:27 PM.

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    Feralgeist's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    play Vampire the requiem. the system is smoother.

    Apart from that, if you like anything from the masquerade, i'd suggest just converting it over to newWOD. S'what i'm doing with Demon: The fallen (love that game)

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    I played VtM once and are currently playing VtR.

    The main difference I've picked up, supported by those I've spoken to who've played VtM more, is that in the former Vamps were horendously powerful compared to mortals and I could never workout why they had a friggin masquerade. In VtR Vampires are more powerful than humans, but if your standard vamp goes up against an elite human soldier in a standup fight he's in trouble. Basically there's a damned good reason for the masquerade. If the humans knew about vampires and decided to stomp them, vampires would be in deep crap.

    Otherwise the general atmosphere remains similiar, nice moody darkness. Personally I like the power down.

    Stephen

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Humans have flamethrowers. And rockets. And nuclear missiles. Vampires may kick the crap out of a normal human, or even a combat-able human, but if the vampire isn't well-armed, and a SWAT team shows up, they'd better be freakin' 3rd generation (3 steps from Kaine, for those not aware of Masquerade terms), or they'd better run.

    New World of Darkness is much less realistic feeling in combat, but because of that, it's much less complicated, and a lot easier to deal with.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    VTM is a well written game ware you can feal the world your playing in. Of corse if its not to your taists then use the books any way and play in your own home town. Vampire, Warwolf, changling, mage and wraith are all in the same world.

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    Stormcrow's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    My advice to you if only one of your players has, and you have not played World of Darkness before would be to have a gander at Monte Cook's World of Darkness which released recently. Its a D20 World of Darkness that includes Vampire, Mage, Werewolf and Awakened. Its less of a learning curve for players and Storyteller alike.
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    The Prince of Cats's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    I loved VtM when I used to play it. Sadly, my group are AD&D (they keep whining about 3.5 being too hard; they preferred 2e, NWP make more sense than feats, etc.) and so I have played one session of vampire in five years and even that was as a co-ST.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen_E View Post
    If the humans knew about vampires and decided to stomp them, vampires would be in deep crap.
    Well, in VtM, I think it was something like one vampire for every two thousand or so humans. Power was not the issue (with the exception of v. low-gen vampires shrugging off nukes in the end-times) because the numbers were so low. Even the Sabbat, with their less-than-restrained recruiting practices always had to be careful.

    I also remember that Hunters were over-powered, since the Inquisition used to do the same job without divine help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goober4473 View Post
    The idea is basically that vampires, no matter what they do, always become monsters, and lose themselves to their beast within, even if it takes thousands of years. It's sort of a hopeless setting in that way.
    Well, there is always Golconda in VtM

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    banjo1985's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince_of_Cats View Post
    Well, there is always Golconda in VtM
    It still exists in VTR as well, wouldn't bet on characters ever reaching it though! While I do really like the story-telling system, VtR isn't my favourite setting, I just find it a little bit bland. As far as it goes though I'm sure it must be a good choice for the vampire fans out there.


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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Yithian View Post
    In Chicago, for example, the prince has a law about not killing and not creating kindred.
    Actually, those are two of the Six Traditions of the Camarilla (the others being the Masquerade itself, respect-thy-prince, you're-responsible-for-your-childer, and respect-thy-prince-some-more).

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince_of_Cats View Post
    Well, in VtM, I think it was something like one vampire for every two thousand or so humans.
    As I recall, way less than that. Chicago has a population of over 9 million (from Wikipedia) and only a couple hundred vamps.

    I also remember that Hunters were over-powered, since the Inquisition used to do the same job without divine help.
    Yeah, I used to think hunters were silly, considering the sheer amount of people and guns it takes to take down a single Garou or Brujah, and the heavy casualties it would take. So ironically they added some magic powers for hunters, so they can hunt those creatures with magic powers...

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    The Prince of Cats's Avatar

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Yeah, I used to think hunters were silly, considering the sheer amount of people and guns it takes to take down a single Garou or Brujah, and the heavy casualties it would take.
    Well, the Inquisition was clever rather than supernatural. We are talking about a group who developed technology to detect vampires, as well as finding new ways of killing them. They also tended not to have a problem with using their own powers against them by ghouling themselves to torpid or dead vampires.

    These were the kind of people who made the Masquerade necessary in the first place.

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    Default Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    I played Masquerade... and it, like all WoD games, has a nicely fleshed out setting and good character building system.

    My only issue with Masquerade is that, if done right, it is a "personal horror" game (the beast is slowly destroying you) and it is also a very political game, where the powerful manipulate the weak very easily. I have played games where GMs have gotten the horror and politics so "right" -- that I spent the entire game feeling entirely helpless and that I had no choice in anything I did (and I'm a pretty experienced player; I've never felt that way in other games, including other World of Darkness games). That, to me, is no fun at all.

    So there's a tricky balance point in getting the feel for the world and what the players should be going through, but also make sure that they feel like they are actually accomplishing something.

    I don't know much about Requiem, but I imagine a similar caveat applies. From what I've seen of Requiem, I like the system a little better and the structures of vampire society seems interesting--more interesting to me than of the original, but again my knowledge is limited.
    Last edited by DeathQuaker; 2007-08-17 at 07:16 AM. Reason: rogue apostrophe

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    DruidGirl

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    smile Re: White Wolf Vampire setting

    Wow, thank you everyone for your input! The Vampire setting sounds fascinating and I definitely want look into getting those books and testing it out. The experienced players I usually play with have been moving more towards roleplay, instead of combat, oriented games, so I'm writing myself a sticky-note to tell them about it.
    For this particular game, I will probably stick with something closer to D&D to keep things simple, especially for players who are new or haven’t played in a while. It's going to be an online game, and none of us have played together before, so sticking to something I know I can DM should be best. I’ll probably tell them about Monte Cook's World of Darkness that you suggested, Stormcrow, and see what they think.

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