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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

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    Default Best Sunder Possible?

    So, Spheres of Might came out...and has finally been put on the wiki. Notably, they actually realize the awesomeness of a combat blacksmith!

    Notably, this class has bonus damage to sunder (thunderous blows), that advances as sneak attack. And at third level, you can sunder the person's unarmed strike, and just apply that damage directly to the person.

    And, unlike most everyone, you don't have to be like "Oh, you poor babies, I destroyed all your loot with my stupendously stupid specialization." You get to repair what you break. This notably also lets you buy broken items on the cheap, and repair them yourself. (Or craft them, even cheaper.)

    So yeah. That's pretty cool.

    I was searching through the spheres of might to find synergies (for melee, anyway). Ranged sunder seems to actually be possible. This is non-comprehensive, but I did at least glance at all the spheres.
    Spoiler: Sphere power
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    I found 2 from Berserk: Shieldbreaker. This lets you ignore your BAB in Hardness when attacking a shield, armor, or similar item. Oh, and destroying the item also transfers damage to the user, but you already get that bit from the class.

    There's also Greater Sunder, which grants the equivalent of Improved and Greater Sunder, over 12 levels (BAB). That's pretty terrible, although if you can retrain the sunder feats, then this becomes a great, efficient pick up at level 12.

    For Duelist sphere...well, let's just start off by saying that it focuses on Disarm, which is not Sunder. But, I will list the relevant sphere things here.
    Draw Cut lets you attack, and sunder. ...But you must ready an action, which sucks. Oh, and the weapon must be sheathed, so you can't do it unless you've absolutely loaded up on extra weapons, or it's the first round.

    Slickened Grip: When you cause someone to bleed, you cause them to take the bleed as a penalty to CMD, or 2x the bleed as CMD against Disarm and Sunder. That's....impressive. I mean, not with the baseline Duelist thing, but if you have some major source of Bleed, then it's good for this build. Even a 1d6 bleed damage averages a -7 penalty to sunder.

    Shattering Disarm: ....Really? Why? Why would you ever want to destroy a weapon that's already been dropped?


    As for weapons, I found 3 that are of note.
    Spoiler: weapons
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    The Lucerne Hammer (reach and +2 bonus to CMB to sunder medium+ armor).
    And the Piston Hammer, which grants +4 damage when sundering.
    As well as the Flamberg (with the sunder property), and gains an additional +4 CMB when sundering wood.

    Given that Lucern Hammer's big deal is that you don't "need" improved sunder to not provoke (because reach), and you already effectively have Improved Sunder... (However, see Smithing Insights) It does have 1d12 damage, which is respectable, but is also an exotic weapon.

    Piston Hammer costs 10 gp per day to run (assuming you're crafting the thunderstone). Possibly going down to 7.5 gp if you pick up Economic Crafting for a Smithing Insight That's not too bad, and not many things grant bonus damage as a mundane item. 1d10 is also not bad base damage. Not the greatest, but with the +4 it comes to 9.5 average damage (greater than Greatsword at 7)...not much greater though, and it's costing gold, and a feat (unless you took a martial tradition that granted exotic proficiency).

    Flambard is 1d10 damage, but can grant up to +6 CMB when sundering wood, and a constant +2. That's a fairly massive increase to accuracy, especially early game. It's also exotic, but because it is otherwise treated as a Bastard Sword, you can just wield it 2 handed, and suffer no penalty. This is awesome.


    On to Smithing Insights!
    Spoiler: Smithing Insights
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    Double Edge Sword: Encourage your opponent to get rid of his stuff, thus making it so it just stays broken rather than Destroyed. Could be useful, but your Shieldbreaker doesn't apply to these.

    Economic Crafting: assuming your DM sticks to WBL, and doesn't counterbalance for this, it's pretty cool. Nothing overly massive, but 10% off on Magic Items, when you can already craft them, is pretty dang cool. If your DM adjusts WBL for this, it's absolute trash.

    Hampering Dents: flavorful, and not too bad. It just adds a damage debuff on to what you're already doing. I mean, maybe, just maybe, you have a use for those skill penalties, but otherwise meh.

    Heat Forged: Again, flavorful, and I love it for that. Speed penalties aren't too useful for melee combatants. This might go quite well with a Pistoleer sunderer. But, the sunder bonus seems very much like a side thing. The main bit is the fire resistance, which is the most common elemental damage type.

    Practiced Power: +1 bonus to attack and damage on hammers. +1 / 5 levels. This improves the lucerne hammer. At level 5, Lucerne Hammer has an equivalent passive bonus as Flambard. But Flambard is still overall better until at least 10 level, so don't bother with this until then.

    Satisfying Crunch: Bonuses, if you break or destroy an item. Guess what you are doing. Yeah. Take this.

    Toolsmith: Simply put: Masterwork Blacksmith's tools.
    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Sometimes you get eaten by a giant purple earthworm.
    Journals from my D&D campaign
    My Vestige
    Found my Artifact
    Player Expectations
    Spheres of Power / Might Builds
    Spheres in Review

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Boggartbae's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Sunder Possible?

    This looks like a really fun thing to build. I don't have time to trawl the internet to help optimize it right now, but here are a few things:

    the Sundering Strike feat gives you a free sunder whenever you score a critical hit. This means you do normal critical damage, and then, thanks to the Thunderous Blows ability, you deal sunder damage on top of that. Falchions aren't the best Sunder weapons, but this could be a lot of burst damage.

    the Smashing Style feat gives you a free Bull Rush whenever you Sunder, and the Hammer Down ability of the Blacksmith gives you a free Trip whenever you Bull Rush. There's probably something cool you can do with all that

    You can also combine Vital Strike with a Sunder if all you want is raw damage numbers.
    LGBTitP

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperMagnum357 View Post
    I think I would agree with Boggartbae

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Sunder Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boggartbae View Post
    This looks like a really fun thing to build. I don't have time to trawl the internet to help optimize it right now, but here are a few things:

    the Sundering Strike feat gives you a free sunder whenever you score a critical hit. This means you do normal critical damage, and then, thanks to the Thunderous Blows ability, you deal sunder damage on top of that. Falchions aren't the best Sunder weapons, but this could be a lot of burst damage.

    the Smashing Style feat gives you a free Bull Rush whenever you Sunder, and the Hammer Down ability of the Blacksmith gives you a free Trip whenever you Bull Rush. There's probably something cool you can do with all that

    You can also combine Vital Strike with a Sunder if all you want is raw damage numbers.
    Sundering Strike was just meh.

    Smashing Style is kinda cool, and could be worthwhile, but unfortunately, you can't proc free action maneuvers from free actions, according to the rules set in Spheres of Might.

    I've always been unimpressed by Vital Strike, but with Spheres of Might's insistence upon using Attack Actions rather than full attacks, it actually makes it rather good.
    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Sometimes you get eaten by a giant purple earthworm.
    Journals from my D&D campaign
    My Vestige
    Found my Artifact
    Player Expectations
    Spheres of Power / Might Builds
    Spheres in Review

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Boggartbae's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Sunder Possible?

    I'll be honest I don't actually know what sphere's of might is.

    I thought you were just going for the biggest sunder damage possible, or a good sunder build, but sorry I couldn't be more helpful

    What's meh about sundering strike, though? it seems like you could do a lot of damage combined with a 15-20 weapon and thunderous blows. Is it because it doesn't actually make you better at sundering, and also requires you to not be sundering in order to use it? probably :P
    LGBTitP

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperMagnum357 View Post
    I think I would agree with Boggartbae

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Best Sunder Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boggartbae View Post
    I'll be honest I don't actually know what sphere's of might is.

    I thought you were just going for the biggest sunder damage possible, or a good sunder build, but sorry I couldn't be more helpful

    What's meh about sundering strike, though? it seems like you could do a lot of damage combined with a 15-20 weapon and thunderous blows. Is it because it doesn't actually make you better at sundering, and also requires you to not be sundering in order to use it? probably :P
    No problems. That's why I clarified things. But yeah. Sundering Strike is pretty meh since I assume you don't get to sunder while hoping that you do crit, so that you can sunder. And for the good sundering weapons, they don't have good crit range.
    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Sometimes you get eaten by a giant purple earthworm.
    Journals from my D&D campaign
    My Vestige
    Found my Artifact
    Player Expectations
    Spheres of Power / Might Builds
    Spheres in Review

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