Whirlwind Alternative

[clash]

I think its a general consensus that the rangers whirlwind attack is straight up inferior to volley. This is my proposed replacement for whirlwind:

Path of blood:
Move up to 30ft in a straight line as part of the attack. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks and you may make a single melee attack against every creature that was within 5ft of you at some point during the charge.

Please let me know if this is balanced and a more appealing alternative.

[Deleted]

I think its a general consensus that the rangers whirlwind attack is straight up inferior to volley. This is my proposed replacement for whirlwind:

Path of blood:
Move up to 30ft in a straight line as part of the attack. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks and you may make a single melee attack against every creature that was within 5ft of you at some point during the charge.

Please let me know if this is balanced and a more appealing alternative.

Make it do only weapon damage, no modifier, and it would be more balanced than just attacking each creature.

At most it would be doing 1d12 to each creature you move past and allows you to travel freely... Though it would be at-will so... yeah...

Maybe combine it with the overrun action in the DMG?

Damage + Mobility = fun

[clash]

What makes it too strong in your opinion? Is it the amount of space threatened or the free movement?

I had designed it so you would threaten close to the same number of squares as with volley

Spoiler: Threatened squares

Show

Volley
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Path of Blood:
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I had thought that the range of ranged attacks would roughly balance with the free movement granted but I could see reducing strength of it.

If I reduced the range to say 20ft do you think it would be balanced?

[Deleted]

What makes it too strong in your opinion? Is it the amount of space threatened or the free movement?

I had designed it so you would threaten close to the same number of squares as with volley

Spoiler: Threatened squares

Show

Volley
oox
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oox
Path of Blood:
oxxxxxx
xoooooox
oxxxxxx

I had thought that the range of ranged attacks would roughly balance with the free movement granted but I could see reducing strength of it.

If I reduced the range to say 20ft do you think it would be balanced?

At will free movement, which is essentially a teleport, while doing 1d8 - 1d12 + 5 + bonus damage (from hunter, spells, or whatever else) to each creature in a 30' line is kinda broken.

1d8 + 5 + 2 + 1d4 (1d4 is misc bonus to damage, easy to get) = 14 damage. Now, even if we assume there is a straight line and only half the number of creatures possible (one behind you and 1 per 5') that translates into 7 creatures. That's 98 damage, without crits.

Say you're completely surrounded by creatures... (2 per 5' as there is one on each side of you plus one behind you and one at the end of the 30') and you have 196 damage. Before crits.

It isn't hard to hit in 5e, especially creatures that come in hordes.

And yeah, I'm going with a halfling on this one so the whole "you can't walk through creature's spaces" isn't a thing.

Halfling Rangers would be tiny murder machines to hordes. Plus I'm sure there's a way to abuse your bonus action... Probably Rogue 2 or Cleric for some sweet bonus action spells.

Now, damage in itself isn't broken but compared to what others get? Yeah broken because it's damage and essentially a free teleport.

To fix this, you can either tone down the damage, the expenditure, or the movement. The movement and being at-will is needed so toning down the damage to "spell" levels would be the way to go. Perhaps even giving a no crits clause would work...


Note: Not that pure damage is really a problem mind you, any DM worth their salt can deal with it... But many people will have a huge problem with this sort of ability you made. Even volley is limited to how many arrows you actually have... I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here as pure HP damage is not really on my radar of "omg broken" (I DM'ed for uber charger characters in 3e and 4e).

[JNAProductions]

Eh... It's free MOVEMENT, but certainly no teleport. It can't go through walls, for instance.

And how often do you get 7 people in a straight line, with a +2 and +1d4 damage magic weapon?

[Deleted]

Eh... It's free MOVEMENT, but certainly no teleport. It can't go through walls, for instance.

And how often do you get 7 people in a straight line, with a +2 and +1d4 damage magic weapon?

Anyone using hordes, this would be great for halflings that can walk right through enemy spaces.

Movement + Disengage + unlimited attacks (like volley, you can have a lot of creatures adjacent to you, 5e doesn't use battle grids all that much) for just 1 action?

Plus you can always move into position and then just fire this off. Go store hth based ranger with a heavy weapon and the feat for -5/+10 for more damage.

All for no drain on resources too.

[JNAProductions]

I think you're vastly overestimating how good this would be.

OP, I think this looks fun, and not broken.

[Potato_Priest]

I think you're vastly overestimating how good this would be.

OP, I think this looks fun, and not broken.

Agreed. This is a very high level choice, lets remember.

[JBPuffin]

Melee should have nice things, shouldn't they. I think it's alright.

[clash]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I will try it out as is.

[Deleted]

Agreed. This is a very high level choice, lets remember.

Level 11 isnt very high level.

Melee should have nice things, shouldn't they. I think it's alright.

I agree, I'm pretty others have championed for nice things for martial as much as me but not more than me (I'm at 100% capacity) but there's a difference between wanting nice things and giving broken abilities that DMs will scoff at.

[cogsworther]

Path of blood:
Move up to 30ft in a straight line as part of the attack. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks and you may make a single melee attack against every creature that was within 5ft of you at some point during the charge.

At first glance it seems pretty powerful, but then I thought about it a little bit, and I realized two things:

1. Rangers are supposed to excel at fighting certain kinds of enemies. A Ranger with this ability would simply be really, really good at fighting hordes. It wouldn't be hard to challenge such a character, just throw something at them that isn't a horde.

2.In my experience, hordes of enemies aren't that common in 5e. Swarms, maybe, but not hordes. How often would you really encounter a perfectly lined up row of enemies in a perfectly straight line that a Ranger could just fly right through with this ability. It's powerful, but only in a certain situation against a certain type of enemy.

So, yeah, I think it's pretty darn good, especially when you consider that the Ranger is giving up the chance to cast any spells, do two attacks, or anything else for the round.

[Arte]

Actually the thing that glared at me is that this was as part of the attack rather than as an action.

If the class didn't have sources of extra attack it would be fine I think.

Maybe something like this:

As an action you use your movement to travel up to 30-feet in a straight line making a weapon attack against any creature within 5-feet of you as you travel this path.

A creature you hit in this way cannot make opportunity attacks against you.


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That adds a level of risk to such a powerful move and keeps it from overshadowing anyone without this feature.

[clash]

Oh ya this is supposed to be an action like whirlwind attack that it is replacing. I could add in the opportunity attacks from anyone you miss but honestly I might prefer to knock it down to 20 feet instead

[Scuronotte]

Oh ya this is supposed to be an action like whirlwind attack that it is replacing. I could add in the opportunity attacks from anyone you miss but honestly I might prefer to knock it down to 20 feet instead

Already play with movement at our table. It is half your movement speed and each creature cannot be more than 10 feet away from the previous creature. Thats it.
(We play a non-spell caster version in which the Hunter Ranger gets a bonus damage 1d6 to each attack to a different creature starting at 3rd level).

With respect to OA, the player either chooses Mobile feat or selects the 7th level Escape the Horde feature