Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 48
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Hello! This is my first guide for 5E D&D, and let me tell you, I did not expect for this thing to reach 150+ pages.

    This guide was inspired by NADRIGOL's Bladesinger guide. However, I disagreed with the original author on certain spell ratings and I felt that a Magical Item guide was extremely warranted. Still, check out his guide! It's really good.

    This is the formal link for the guide. The latest copy, in other words.

    This is the editable link for the guide. If you feel any clarifications or edits are warranted that aren't really fit for a BBPost (typo correction, item descriptions I've missed, etc.) feel free to put them in.

    In addition to the formal TODO list in the guide, there are about 8 wondrous items I didn't include, a bunch of magical weapons I also didn't include, and I didn't do skills. However, everything else is at its final draft version, including spells and every other magical item. I wanted to get this out before Xanathar's dropped, because that is also going to be a beast-and-a-half to integrate.

    Despite the name of the guide, I think there's plenty in here that is useful for wizards. It's just that the spell and magical item ratings are geared towards the Bladesinger class.
    Last edited by Deathtongue; 2017-11-07 at 04:57 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Guide to the Bladesinger

    [this space is reserved]

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Guide to the Bladesinger

    [this space is also reserved]

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Guide to the Bladesinger and Wizards in General

    [this space is still reserved]

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Guide to the Bladesinger and Wizards in General

    I just got the Xanathar's Guide to Everything book. There are some good, worthwhile spells in here along with a lot of junk and reprints. However, anyone who has survived the 3E and especially 4E D&D kludge knows that you only need to have two or three good options out of thirty bad ones to be super-effective. And I think Xanathar's gives enough super-effective options to make the book worthwhile. Expect something this Sunday or so.

    If you're super-impatient, you can see me updating the guide in real-time. I'm already up to 4th-level spells, but then again most of the new spells are 4th-level or higher.
    Last edited by Deathtongue; 2017-11-04 at 10:42 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    jaappleton's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    I'll delete this post if you request, due to not wanting to interrupt the flow of your posts.

    The lv5 spell Steel Wind Strike seems stellar, dealing 6d10 damage to up to 5 creatures within 30ft of you. Unsure if it deals half damage on a miss, though, that would lower the rating considerably if it just misses.

    Thunder Step seems pretty darn sweet, dealing damage for a 3rd level spell as you teleport away.

    Regardless, if UA or the DMG are allowed, Eladrins should rank near the top of the list of racial choices for a Bladesinger.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    I'll get to it when I get to it, but I broadly agree with those choices.

    Steel Wind Strike does slightly less damage than an upcasted Fireball (despite having a generally better targeting scheme) but the real value is the teleport.

    Same for Thunder Step. Using an action for a 3d10 thunder, Constitution-Half spell would be very underwhelming at 3rd level if it were not also for both the teleport and (especially) the taking someone with you.

    As far as Eladrin goes, getting a short-rest Misty Step is pretty dang good, but since you will definitely want to prep it in a regular spell slot anyway it basically amounts to an extra level 2 spell slot. Which is definitely not bad compared to other options, but it's not a hugely dominating one. It makes them the best 'legal' Bladesinger race by a small margin (cantrip versus virtual extra second-level spell slot) but I have a hard time seeing them as better than Variant humans, Feral Tieflings with wings, Stout halflings, or Yuan-Ti in games with rolled stats.

    I'm still against the idea of building a Bladesinger towards being a melee butt-kicker, but Tenser's Transformation makes a very strong argument for building your character in that direction at 13th to 16th levels. Perhaps level 11 if you do short workdays.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    jaappleton's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    I'll get to it when I get to it, but I broadly agree with those choices.

    Steel Wind Strike does slightly less damage than an upcasted Fireball (despite having a generally better targeting scheme) but the real value is the teleport.

    Same for Thunder Step. Using an action for a 3d10 thunder, Constitution-Half spell would be very underwhelming at 3rd level if it were not also for both the teleport and (especially) the taking someone with you.

    As far as Eladrin goes, getting a short-rest Misty Step is pretty dang good, but since you will definitely want to prep it in a regular spell slot anyway it basically amounts to an extra level 2 spell slot. Which is definitely not bad compared to other options, but it's not a hugely dominating one. It makes them the best 'legal' Bladesinger race by a small margin (cantrip versus virtual extra second-level spell slot) but I have a hard time seeing them as better than Variant humans, Feral Tieflings with wings, Stout halflings, or Yuan-Ti in games with rolled stats.

    I'm still against the idea of building a Bladesinger towards being a melee butt-kicker, but Tenser's Transformation makes a very strong argument for building your character in that direction at 13th to 16th levels. Perhaps level 11 if you do short workdays.
    Emphasis mine.

    The UA version specifically doesn't use Misty Step anymore. Now it can't be Counterspelled, it's its own unique thing.

    Not a massive change, but worth noting.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    Emphasis mine.

    The UA version specifically doesn't use Misty Step anymore. Now it can't be Counterspelled, it's its own unique thing.

    Not a massive change, but worth noting.
    That still doesn't change what I said, though. I have Counterspelled other NPC casters' Misty Steps (mostly in the context of one trying to get away from a Telekinesis/Black Tentacles) but as far as PCs are concerned a caster that wastes a Counterspell on use is generally creating an opening.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Having so much devoted to Item ratings seems folly since this is largely outside of the player's control; the DM chooses what items the group finds...rarely do my tables have a gold budget for open magic item purchases.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    Having so much devoted to Item ratings seems folly since this is largely outside of the player's control; the DM chooses what items the group finds...rarely do my tables have a gold budget for open magic item purchases.
    If you're playing in Adventurer's League and/or one of the hardcovers, you're going to be getting a lot of magical items. This is especially true if you go to conventions and take a spin at Fai Chens or just compare magical item notes with other players. I play in the Wisconsin area and have about 30 other level 5+ people to talk to for trades I can see at least once a month if I want.

    While I've almost never been in a game where someone can just wave their hands and declare that they have a +2 weapon (let alone something of higher rarity), getting to level 10 or so with 4-6 useful items happens a lot more often than you think in both home and especially official games. But even if you play only in home games, you're going to be getting a lot of magical items (especially scrolls and spellbooks) unless the DM is specifically trying to clamp down on selection.

    This is why I'm generally unsatisfied with other 5E D&D class guides and wrote this one. They completely focus on a kind of game that's idiosyncratic to the point of being unrepresentative. Especially with the rather blinkered assumption that encounters are typically 6-8 resource draining deals.
    Last edited by Deathtongue; 2017-11-04 at 12:19 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Sariel Vailo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Underdark
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    I actually use the drow i turn my blade singer into the party face so it is helpful but i do agree unless the dm makes or allows more finesse weapon properties. Pretty poor race but i do get a fun build i use actor and the ua feat for more performance double proficency. And i have the entertainer background.
    Skully boyfriend's lead to skully wendigo weddings.
    Spoiler: Linklele
    Show
    linklele you have brought a beautiful and favorite character of mine as well as fluffy to life i wanted to thank you. i may never again switch my avatar

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Duuude... thanks for doing this. All I've read is the intro, and I'm already so, so psyched for this guide. You hit the nail on the head (IME) in terms of assumptions, the bladesinger's role, and what's missing from other guides.

    Can't wait to read it and come back to comment. I'm currently leveling a bladesinger AL, and I've noticed a few tricks/quirks/things that aren't covered in other guides. If I don't see them in your guide I'll post some comments here to help (possibly) contribute.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    All right. All of the spells in Xanathar's are rated. I also finally inserted a Cantrip section I rather foolishly left out the first time around.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Ok --whew-- finally finished.

    Awesome, awesome guide. Lots of great stuff for people new to the subclass, and lots of great stuff for people that already know the basics. Thank you for taking the time to put this together, and to make it so thorough. Quite a few tricks it seems no one else I've run into had ever thought of --like loading a minion with a Ring of Spell Storing so you can have two concentration buffs on you; or Rope Tricking with an Amulet of the Planes for Prime Material teleports-- are noted, which is awesome. And I learned quite a few new ones as well!

    A few comments/questions:

    ----

    I love the magic item section; in fact, would you consider adding a "making the most of a Tome of the Stilled Tongue" section like you did for Glyph, Simulacrum, etc? Since it opens up so many possibilities due to shortening cast time, having every spell in your book accessible even if not prepared, and with playing around with spell interactions (like casting two synergistic 9th-levels together). Even silly things like the usually-sorcerer-only trick of bonus-action-casting Sunbeam and then activating a second beam on the same turn with your action...I know I'm looking forward to bonus-action-shapechange-->attack-->attack in round 1 once I get to Tier 4, but I'm sure there are way crazier tricks.

    Note, btw, there are currently two places in AL that it's available --both relatively recent releases-- so given the ease of trading and the (current) ease of getting legendaries on Tier 2 characters (from CoS and SKT) as trade fodder, I bet a lot of AL bladesingers are going to have one in the near future, and will even be leveling most of the game with one.

    ----

    [Referring to AL play] "You may in fact want to have a second wizard character around whose only purpose is to accumulate spells you can't get."
    In AL, how would you transfer? Just hope that there's a wizard that plays with your secondary wizard, and then plays with your bladesinger, and copies all the spells you want to transfer? Or am I missing something...

    ----

    "Unless you rolled like a protagonist in the climax of a gambling movie, you will only have room for one feat plus stat maxing. Make it count."
    Headband of Intellect frees up 1-2 ASI's if you're ok with just a +4 int bonus. Is dex all that important, especially if you plan on being a caster first and a melee'er second? Belts of giant strength make you a better striker than if you had 20 dex. With that in mind, is it better to go for feats? My L7 bladesinger is sitting at 16 dex 13 int (19 with headband), and (several) feats seem way more attractive than stat bumps. Maybe it's just because the gish part of the bladesinger is far less attractive to me than the wizard part. But is the math on a few +1s to rolls really all that weighty, compared to Lucky, Alert, Warcaster, Res(Con)? (I'm seriously asking here, I'd love to be corrected if I'm just missing the point)

    ----

    Now, most people want to use Wish to poach spells from other spells. Which is fine, because it's the safest way to use the spell. However, there are ways to avoid the drain (ugh) and the Never Cast Wish Again (UGGGGH). Probably the easiest way to avoid it is to have your Simulacrum cast Wish, though do note that the Adventurer's League specifically plugged this loophole. The second-safest way to cast it is to have someone else do it. Do you trust your Rock-turned-Volo's Abjurer-Via-True-Polymorph with your Tome of the Stilled Tongue? You probably shouldn't, but it is an option, especially if you use the Astral Projection loop. Get creative.
    Could you explain this a little further? Volo's Abjurer only has 7th-level slots... how is he able to cast Wish? If he's using your TotST, how is he able to cast things from it since it's not his spellbook? Even if he attunes, since he didn't copy those spells into it, as I understand it he can't cast them; he'd need to copy spells into it himself I think.

    ----

    Find Greater Steed (Xanatharís) Ė You get a griffon, pegasus, peryton, dire wolf, rhinoceros, or a saber-toothed tiger instead of the standard mount choices. You want this, but, haha good luck actually getting to use it in an Adventurerís League game, Bladesinger
    Why's that?

    ----

    Really looking forward to the multiclass section. I totally agree that delaying wizard spell acquisition by even a single level is too big a cost; however, I do think dipping for your last level or two can have huge payoffs.

    My own bladesinger has aspirations to be a Shapechanging grappler in the endgame, so after Wiz 17/18 I'm planning on dipping Rogue 1 for Athletics Expertise, and Warlock 1 for Armor of Agathys and Hex (Hex is less for grappling and more for other shenanigans, like intentionally failing Amulet of the Planes checks, social hijinx, helping out my Illusionist friends, etc).
    Last edited by Zene; 2017-11-06 at 01:03 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene
    In AL, how would you transfer? Just hope that there's a wizard that plays with your secondary wizard, and then plays with your bladesinger, and copies all the spells you want to transfer? Or am I missing something...
    You are allowed to trade magical items and spells between characters you own if you have the downtime days for it. This is probably the best way to do it. I play in a fairly large area and Wisconsin is probably THE best state for conventions, but I didn't get Watery Sphere, Transmute Rock, Whirlwind, and Investiture of Stone for my character until literally last weekend.

    I imagine it's going to be even more of a slog for Bladesingers who want Xanathar's stuff, especially the higher-level spells. Like it or not, most wizards in actual games pick stuff like Acid Arrow and Arcane Lock. I'm just going to cut out the middleman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene
    Could you explain this a little further? Volo's Abjurer only has 7th-level slots... how is he able to cast Wish? If he's using your TotST, how is he able to cast things from it since it's not his spellbook? Even if he attunes, since he didn't copy those spells into it, as I understand it he can't cast them; he'd need to copy spells into it himself I think.
    You are correct. This trick does not work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene
    Really looking forward to the multiclass section. I totally agree that delaying wizard spell acquisition by even a single level is too big a cost; however, I do think dipping for your last level or two can have huge payoffs.
    Generally, I disagree that's it's worth doing so near the end of the game even though the last two wizard levels are lackluster on class features. For two reasons.

    1.) If you stick with a full-caster, you still get level 6 and 7 spell slots. Even if all you care is how much of an awesome melee guy you are and were just there for Foresight, that's still one or two extra Contingency or Tenser's Transformation or Investiture of Stone.

    2.) Combined with effect 1, this means going through the game with lopsided stats if you're finishing off with, say, Sorcerer or Bard. I think going through the entire game with 2 less DEX or CON than you'd otherwise have is just too painful for an end-of-game payoff that's not that big.

    Maybe I'll re-evaluate the efficacy of multiclassing once WotC releases another INT or CON-based full caster, but generally I feel that even end-of-game multiclassing will generally put you behind. If you have magical items in your game and you really, really want something like Armor of Agathys I would just prep a couple of Rings of Spell Storing and attune-swap them during short rests.

    Headband of Intellect frees up 1-2 ASI's if you're ok with just a +4 int bonus. Is dex all that important, especially if you plan on being a caster first and a melee'er second? Belts of giant strength make you a better striker than if you had 20 dex. With that in mind, is it better to go for feats?
    Having some sort of concentration booster really is a big deal and you should have one by level 8 or so.

    If you're playing in a home game and you get a stat-replacement item, then yes, you can focus on something else. However, the thing about using stat replacement items is that they eat up your attunement slot. You can do some hotswapping with attunement items to minimize the load, but Adventurer's League drops some seriously good magical items. I don't know if it's possible to get these three items legally (I never look at hardcover material until after the adventure is over, and I don't look at DDAL modules, period) but imagine if you found yourself unable to use the trinity of an Ioun Stone of Mastery, Robe of the Archmagi, and a Staff of Power because you had to reserve two of your items for a Headband of Intellect and an Amulet of Health.

    Nothing's guaranteed and I consider it a very acceptable risk, unlike multiclassing, but it is something to consider.
    Last edited by Deathtongue; 2017-11-06 at 09:44 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    You are allowed to trade magical items and spells between characters you own if you have the downtime days for it.
    Ah, I'd always been told you have to be in the same session as the wizard you're copying from... hence can never copy between your own characters. Which is weird, since it is a downtime activity; I may have been misinformed. I just checked the AL FAQ, I don't see anything on it one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    Generally, I disagree that's it's worth doing so near the end of the game even though the last two wizard levels are lackluster on class features. For two reasons.

    1.) If you stick with a full-caster, you still get level 6 and 7 spell slots. Even if all you care is how much of an awesome melee guy you are and were just there for Foresight, that's still one or two extra Contingency or Tenser's Transformation or Investiture of Stone.

    2.) Combined with effect 1, this means going through the game with lopsided stats if you're finishing off with, say, Sorcerer or Bard. I think going through the entire game with 2 less DEX or CON than you'd otherwise have is just too painful for an end-of-game payoff that's not that big.

    Maybe I'll re-evaluate the efficacy of multiclassing once WotC releases another INT or CON-based full caster, but generally I feel that even end-of-game multiclassing will generally put you behind. If you have magical items in your game and you really, really want something like Armor of Agathys I would just prep a couple of Rings of Spell Storing and attune-swap them during short rests.
    Fair enough. I've never played a wizard to high Tier 3 / Tier 4, so maybe I will feel the pinch on those 6 and 7 slots as I'm getting there and decide to just stick Wizard. But since my goal is to be an endgame Shapechanging grappler, to be honest I can't see any way those extra slots would compare to Athletics expertise. I admit I am probably an edge case, though (I really don't care about melee effectiveness outside of endgame grappling, and am content to be a backline wizard with some neat bladesinger perks until then).

    For Armor of Agathys, if I ring of spell store it, I'm spending an attunement slot for at max a L5 Armor of Agathys (and that's if I am adventuring with a warlock with L5 slots -- not something I can rely on). Swapping attunement slots takes two short rests (one to focus on an item for an hour to unattune, one to focus on the new item for an hour to attune). I do have access to the Harmonius Ring of Spell storing, which would shave that down to one short rest plus one minute, but still overall this seems like a of risk and sacrifice just to enable one more 6 or 7 slot per day. Again, I admit I'm an edge case here so it's entirely possible for most folks those last two slots (plus ASI, plus Signature Spell) far outweigh what they'd gain from a dip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    Having some sort of concentration booster really is a big deal and you should have one by level 8 or so.

    If you're playing in a home game and you get a stat-replacement item, then yes, you can focus on something else. However, the thing about using stat replacement items is that they eat up your attunement slot. You can do some hotswapping with attunement items to minimize the load, but Adventurer's League drops some seriously good magical items. I don't know if it's possible to get these three items legally (I never look at hardcover material until after the adventure is over, and I don't look at DDAL modules, period) but imagine if you found yourself unable to use the trinity of an Ioun Stone of Mastery, Robe of the Archmagi, and a Staff of Power because you had to reserve two of your items for a Headband of Intellect and an Amulet of Health.

    Nothing's guaranteed and I consider it a very acceptable risk, unlike multiclassing, but it is something to consider.
    Excellent points, thank you. Really I need to weigh what that attunement slot costs me, against the benefit of not having to spend stat points and ASIs on intelligence --that's a great way to frame it. Would I be willing to pass on one of the trinity? Or would I be willing to drop my Int back down to 13/14 to use it? Both are huge costs. Might still be worth it, but definitely food for thought.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but PHB p.114 section Copying into your spellbook says:
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB
    For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50gp
    So this part from the guide doesn't quite make sense:
    Quote Originally Posted by Guide
    Copying spells into your book is both inexpensive and quick; you can copy three fourth-level spells into your book for the cost of 12 hours and 120 gp. You can also copy from scrolls, which is a godsend.
    Please do clarify (and you should probably provide clarification for it in the guide as well).

    Otherwise a wonderful guide!

    Edit: Making a copy of your own spellbook does only cost 1h and 10gp per spell level, was this the mistake?
    Last edited by Kide; 2018-01-24 at 08:58 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    In the guide, you briefly mention using astral projection to double up on spell slots / consumables. Can you go into detail on this?

    My read of astral projection is that it creates a clone-like astral version of you; so it makes sense if that version casts a 6th-level spell, the real you doesnít lose that slot. However, the spell text also seems to indicate that nothing persists when the astral form goes away. So Iím blanking on how this could be useful in terms of doubling up (except maybe for knowledge gained from divination spells).

    Web searches arenít turning up anything relevant for me either.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Doubling up on consumables is easy to explain. If you have something amazing like a Potion of Giant Size, your astral form uses it and your original keeps the copy.

    As for doubling up on spells: Have the astral forms cast the spells on your bodies. Return to your bodies. Profit.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    Doubling up on consumables is easy to explain. If you have something amazing like a Potion of Giant Size, your astral form uses it and your original keeps the copy.

    As for doubling up on spells: Have the astral forms cast the spells on your bodies. Return to your bodies. Profit.
    Yeah, but as I said, per the spell:
    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    nothing persists
    Last edited by Zene; 2018-02-03 at 04:01 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    Yeah, but as I said, per the spell:
    Why do you say that? Effects that happen on your astral form don't persist on your physical body when you return, but there are ways around that.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    Why do you say that? Effects that happen on your astral form don't persist on your physical body when you return, but there are ways around that.
    I say that because the text of the spell flat-out says nothing persists. "Nothing" has a specific meaning, and "Persists" has a specific meaning. I'm asking, what are the ways around that?

    We have now pretty much come back around full circle to my original question.

    If the answer is just as simple as "You don't read 'nothing persists' as meaning nothing you do at all persists, and thus spells you cast and potions you drink etc can have persistant effects", then ok I guess--that's cool for you and Inquisitor Lim. But I can't imagine most DMs are going to handwave that as OK.

    If there's something I'm missing in the spell or the rulebook that specifically indicates some things persist, despite the spell's line saying nothing persists, then I'd like to know about it --both so I can take advantage of that when I play, and so I can allow it without houseruling when I DM (since I DM Adventurer's League).

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Foxydono's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    I have a question, around page 139 there is a 'talent' section. Some of these talents are really good, but are they legal? I can't find the origional source from which the talents come. If you could clarify this I could talk to my DM about the use of these talents.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    If there's something I'm missing in the spell or the rulebook that specifically indicates some things persist, despite the spell's line saying nothing persists, then I'd like to know about it --both so I can take advantage of that when I play, and so I can allow it without houseruling when I DM (since I DM Adventurer's League).
    No, I'm serious. I'm really wondering where you're getting the phrase 'nothing persists'.

    This is the closest I could find:
    Your astral form is a separate incarnation. Any damage or other effects that apply to it have no effect on your physical body, nor do they persist when you return to it.
    But that doesn't mean 'nothing persists'. It means that while you have an astral form, enemies can't double-tap you for damage (nor will damage bleed over when you return) and if your astral form get hit with a Bestow Curse or a Feeblemind it won't transfer over to your original body even when the effect ends.


    Quote Originally Posted by Foxydono
    Some of these talents are really good, but are they legal? I can't find the origional source from which the talents come.
    None of those effects are legal or even affiliated with WotC. It's third-party material. I got it from this link here:
    http://www.dmsguild.com/product/2146...ons-Talents-5E

    I did want to include some third-party stuff into my guide, just to mix things up. But after putting the Xanathar's stuff into there I've sort of been at an impasse, as I haven't played much 5E D&D lately. I'm having second thoughts about some of those ratings and I'd like to play another Bladesinger or at least a wizard up through the mid-levels to make sure that's how I really feel about the spells.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    No, I'm serious. I'm really wondering where you're getting the phrase 'nothing persists'.

    This is the closest I could find:

    But that doesn't mean 'nothing persists'. It means that while you have an astral form, enemies can't double-tap you for damage (nor will damage bleed over when you return) and if your astral form get hit with a Bestow Curse or a Feeblemind it won't transfer over to your original body even when the effect ends.
    Omg, you are absolutely right. That's embarrassing - I must have been looking at a paraphrased version of the spell. Makes perfect sense the way you described it now. My apologies, and thanks for pointing out the correct text!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    I've been doing some theorycrafting with my Bladesinger (I am leveling up yet another one) who, instead of finishing off with Bladesinger levels like I recommend, instead has a slightly lopsided stat array and finishes off with three levels of Sorcerer.

    The stat array would be something like STR 8 / WIS 9 / CHA 13 / CON 13 / DEX 16 / INT 16, with an ASI for Resilient: Constitution immediately. You then take three levels of Sorcerer, most likely Celestial Sorcerer.

    You lose:
    An ASI (ouch)
    Spell Mastery (OUCH)
    Signature Spells (ouch)
    Three spells known.

    You gain:
    Five more spells known, limited to level 1-2 spells. Since you want to have Shield, Absorb Elements, Protection from Evil and Good, and probably Mage Armor prepared this is a wash. You can manage this by shunting off all of the level 1-2 spells to Sorcerer.
    4 more cantrips, including your pick of Guidance.
    Retroactive +2d4 to a saving throw or attack roll once per short rest.
    Your pick of spells from the Cleric list. Sanctuary, Spiritual Weapon, Aid, Healing Word, and Warding Bond for your Simulacrum are your god.
    Metamagic. This is the big one. I'm partial to Heightened Spell and Extend Spell, though you can make good arguments for Subtle and Quicken.

    Extend spell would let you double-tap on long-lasting buffs like a 7th-level Aid and Foresight and Mind Blank, or make hour-long buffs like True Seeing last you the whole day. It allows you to get around Planar Binding your summons issues. It allows you to get away with combos that are difficult to do, such as slapping a Banishment or Hypnotic Pattern or someone and so your buddy can greet them with a Magic Circle or a Symbol.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathtongue View Post
    I've been doing some theorycrafting with my Bladesinger (I am leveling up yet another one) who, instead of finishing off with Bladesinger levels like I recommend, instead has a slightly lopsided stat array and finishes off with three levels of Sorcerer.

    The stat array would be something like STR 8 / WIS 9 / CHA 13 / CON 13 / DEX 16 / INT 16, with an ASI for Resilient: Constitution immediately. You then take three levels of Sorcerer, most likely Celestial Sorcerer.

    You lose:
    An ASI (ouch)
    Spell Mastery (OUCH)
    Signature Spells (ouch)
    Three spells known.

    You gain:
    Five more spells known, limited to level 1-2 spells. Since you want to have Shield, Absorb Elements, Protection from Evil and Good, and probably Mage Armor prepared this is a wash. You can manage this by shunting off all of the level 1-2 spells to Sorcerer.
    4 more cantrips, including your pick of Guidance.
    Retroactive +2d4 to a saving throw or attack roll once per short rest.
    Your pick of spells from the Cleric list. Sanctuary, Spiritual Weapon, Aid, Healing Word, and Warding Bond for your Simulacrum are your god.
    Metamagic. This is the big one. I'm partial to Heightened Spell and Extend Spell, though you can make good arguments for Subtle and Quicken.

    Extend spell would let you double-tap on long-lasting buffs like a 7th-level Aid and Foresight and Mind Blank, or make hour-long buffs like True Seeing last you the whole day. It allows you to get around Planar Binding your summons issues. It allows you to get away with combos that are difficult to do, such as slapping a Banishment or Hypnotic Pattern or someone and so your buddy can greet them with a Magic Circle or a Symbol.
    This is pretty much my exact plan. For me itís mainly for Subtle óI just find it insanely useful, especially in the endgame, and especially paired with Wish. But all the other benefits are great, and IMO more than worth the tradeoffs.

    Iíll probably take Extended as my other metamagic. Besides the uses you noted, Iím looking forward to dumping leftover spell slots into extended Tiny Servants before long rests. Note though that 1-hour buffs can only be extended to 2 hours, not the whole day.
    Last edited by Zene; 2018-03-04 at 03:22 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for the guide! Very helpful. About to start playing a bladesinger and your guide helped immensely (as did other members here).


    Just wondering - whats your preferred setup for your character (feats/asi's/playstyle)? You've mentioned quite a few that are good, but wondering what you've enjoyed playing.
    Last edited by Raif; 2018-03-04 at 03:53 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

    Even if you're completely backline, you need a concentration-booster by level 8. Resilient: Constitution or Warcaster, though if you play very short workdays Lucky can work. I prefer to use the first ASI to correct lopsided odd stats, max out Intelligence as soon as possible, and finish off with Dexterity.

    My preferred playstyle is listed in the guide. Just search for 'Pathfinder' and read the surrounding section.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •