Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

[Ugganaut]

Good to know, thanks.

[Wherf]

Heya Kryx,

Talking to my players we came up with quite a few things. Hope this is organized alright.

Fighter:

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• Unwavering Mark Cavalier ability should say 'within reach' for the disadvantage effect rather than 5e. If you are mounted having a reach weapon is very nice. It fits the archetype better than a 5ft restriction.
• Is dual-wielding lances intended? If you are mounted and have the Two-Weapon Fighting style enabled you can keep that 1d12 damage. Its very nice- but unsure if it is intended.
• Warlord seems somewhat weak. The manuvers, excluding commander strike, are great. On paper it seems weaker than clavalier or samurai. Though I still have yet to try it myself.
• More Fighter archetypes would be welcome. If I don't want to play a knight/mounted character or a samurai I'm stuck with Warlord unless I reflavor. Reflavoring attacks and such is a valid solution, but I think it would be easy enough to add/fix an archetype from base 5e.

Rogue:

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• One of my players loves the changes to rogue. She thinks they are a dream version of the class with danger sense paired with evasion for defense. The extra attack and an option to do d8 sneak attack seems strong. Not sure if any changes are needed- we have yet to test rogues extensively.
• Crypic gets a unique bleed effect and can also apply spells to attacks as a bonus action. Curiously Arcane Tricksters do not have this latter ability.

Acolyte:

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• Lay on Hands working off of Channel Divinity seems limiting. Having Lay on Hands work on a point system that recharged on a long rest allowed for a cleric to show off their unique Channel Divinity rather than use it for healing. Tranquility Monk still works this way I believe.
• I love that Paladins and Clerics can share domains. It's a great idea!

Occultist + Sorcerer

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• In your previous version I liked that Warlock(Occultist) and Sorcerer were combined into one class. In this version they are very similar- overlaping an archetypes and only having a few differences in playstyle.
• Same can be said for Psionics and Mage(Wizard). They share themes so are psionics needed as a class in this state?
• Eidolons are cool, but why not just offer it as a sorcerer option again?

Battle Magic/Arcane Strike/etc.

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• This description needs to be clearer as to what it really does. How long does the spell stay in the weapon? If a dual-wielding character uses this ability on one weapon then misses (leaving the spell on the weapon), can they put another spell on their offhand and try to strike next turn? In other words, what is a duration for holding spells into a weapon? Is it based on the spell? Can they put more than one spell on a single weapon?
• Further- can a character give these spell-enhanced weapons to another person if they have a duration?
• I'm sure there is more- I hope some the examples were clear. This ability for Skald, Magus, Paladin, Ranger, Hexblade, etc. should be clarified.

Spells and Themes

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• I do not like the automatic assumptions with your thematic spells. I prefer the classic 5e spell information- duration, casting time, range, etc. all included. This is a personal preference and a minor one at that.
• More spells for each theme would be very welcome. Spell diversity is nice when splitting them into themes. I think more spells in each theme would allow some players to specialize and also allow those hedge mages to have more fun. Being a full acid & poison mage could be really fun (if both damage types weren't terrible against most monsters, but I digress)
• I think Unseen Servent is an air elemental so it should be in the Air Theme rather than Unthemed. I could be wrong about this...
• I have two really big documents for custom spells if you need them for ideas. They do have some very fun flavorful spells. One of my players can summon any kind of mundane drink they've tasted before. Thus, they've gotten pretty creative in using it to create blood stains, soapy water, and simply offering juice to creatures. Spells like this aren't useful for wargaming but are very fun in roleplay.
• Included in the above argument- spells like Gust of Wind were changed. The new version is a variant of burning hands. Why not keep the original as well? While many might find it useless one of my players was able to hover high in the air using it in conjunction with a magic cloth. Why not keep the spells like this?
• Magic Missile is very strong. Shield (Now under a different name..) is not as easy to get as a spell. It relies on going into the force theme. Thus, an augmented Magic Missle or any Force spell can really mess with an encounter. I would lower the augmented damage in the Force Theme

Hope this helps!

[Kryx]

Hi Wherf, thanks for your feedback. See my replies below.

Fighter:

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Unwavering Mark Cavalier ability should say 'within reach' for the disadvantage effect rather than 5e. If you are mounted having a reach weapon is very nice. It fits the archetype better than a 5ft restriction.

This would make polearms the premier option for Cavalier. That's not good.

Is dual-wielding lances intended? If you are mounted and have the Two-Weapon Fighting style enabled you can keep that 1d12 damage. Its very nice- but unsure if it is intended.

It's allowed by 5e. It shouldn't be. There isn't really an easy way to make this clear however.

Warlord seems somewhat weak. The manuvers, excluding commander strike, are great. On paper it seems weaker than clavalier or samurai. Though I still have yet to try it myself.

Student of War and Rallying Cry fit the theme are are competitive with other 3rd level features.
Know your Enemy is a trash feature imo. Please suggest a replacement.
Inspiring Leader and Bulwark are both good. It's missing an 18th level feature though.

More Fighter archetypes would be welcome. If I don't want to play a knight/mounted character or a samurai I'm stuck with Warlord unless I reflavor. Reflavoring attacks and such is a valid solution, but I think it would be easy enough to add/fix an archetype from base 5e.

What fighter archetype is missing?

Rogue:

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The extra attack and an option to do d8 sneak attack seems strong. Not sure if any changes are needed- we have yet to test rogues extensively.

The DPR is calculated and the Rogue is in line with other classes. You can compare rapier vs TWF there. d8 balanced out one handed weapons vs TWF. By RAW TWF is far superior for the rogue.

Crypic gets a unique bleed effect and can also apply spells to attacks as a bonus action. Curiously Arcane Tricksters do not have this latter ability.

The Cryptic does not have a bleed effect that I can see. If you think there is an imbalance between subclasses please be more specific.

Acolyte:

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Lay on Hands working off of Channel Divinity seems limiting. Having Lay on Hands work on a point system that recharged on a long rest allowed for a cleric to show off their unique Channel Divinity rather than use it for healing. Tranquility Monk still works this way I believe.

This is a feature, not a bug. The ability to play whack-a-mole with HP to mitigate tons of damage with Lay on Hands is ridiculous. It is very unbalanced. Channel Divinity uses were increased to compensate for this change.

Tranquility is also not point based: "Starting at 3rd level, your mystical touch can heal wounds. As an action, you can touch a creature to restore a number of hit points equal to 1d8 + half your monk level + your Wisdom modifier to that creature.

Alternatively, you can cure the target of one disease or neutralize one poison affecting it."

Occultist + Sorcerer:

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In your previous version I liked that Warlock(Occultist) and Sorcerer were combined into one class. In this version they are very similar- overlaping an archetypes and only having a few differences in playstyle.

They are similar classes, but their origins and flavor of acquiring powers are very different. It could only be combined in to one class that had the option to choose flavor, but that does not fit the 5e model I think. The class features are quite different as well: The Occultist is very much a person seeking knowledge and power (see Intelligence) that they acquire from their Patron while the Sorcerer is about using their inner power. It would also have 4 archetypes which would be too many.

Same can be said for Psionics and Mage(Wizard). They share themes so are psionics needed as a class in this state?

Psionicists do not have a spellbook and their class features differ. There is some similarities, but less than Occultist/Sorcerer. This would also have 4 archetypes if combined

Eidolons are cool, but why not just offer it as a sorcerer option again?

Occultists get their power from their Patron and the Eidolon is a manifestation of their Patron. A Sorcerer doesn't fit that model and I don't think it'd be a good idea to blur that line even more.

Battle Magic/Arcane Strike/etc.:

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This description needs to be clearer as to what it really does. How long does the spell stay in the weapon? If a dual-wielding character uses this ability on one weapon then misses (leaving the spell on the weapon), can they put another spell on their offhand and try to strike next turn? In other words, what is a duration for holding spells into a weapon? Is it based on the spell? Can they put more than one spell on a single weapon?

I will clarify this in the text. The goal is that this is not done before combat and multiple spells can't be used, but I also don't want it to be too punishing if you miss. TWF has no implication here - it is in 1 weapon and does not transfer. This doesn't need to be clarified imo.

EDIT: this should solve it:

You can expend mana as a bonus action to channel a spell that you know with a casting time of 1 action or 1 bonus action into your weapon until the end of your next turn. The first creature you hit with your bonded weapon is targeted by the spell. If the spell has an area, the area is centered on the creature and you are not affected by the spell. A weapon can only hold one spell at a time.

You can only use arcane strike if you have not expended ki, mana, or stamina this turn.

Further- can a character give these spell-enhanced weapons to another person if they have a duration?

With a duration change this won't matter too much, but I should probably explicitly disallow it.

Spells and Themes:

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I do not like the automatic assumptions with your thematic spells. I prefer the classic 5e spell information- duration, casting time, range, etc. all included. This is a personal preference and a minor one at that.

The goal is that spell descriptions are short and this information is easily accessible. The casting time is nearly always the first word, the range is nearly always in the first sentence and the duration isn't too hard to find. I understand your desire here, but I believe this cleaned up format results in more streamlined spells that should be easier to parse.

More spells for each theme would be very welcome. Spell diversity is nice when splitting them into themes. I think more spells in each theme would allow some players to specialize and also allow those hedge mages to have more fun. Being a full acid & poison mage could be really fun (if both damage types weren't terrible against most monsters, but I digress)

I already have significantly more spells than RAW 5e. More is always great, but that's not always easy to accomplish. I think there are quite a lot currently. If you have specific suggestions (ideally based on a variant of 5e or a ported version of a Pathfinder spell) then please do add them.
Poison and Acid have significantly more than RAW and using acid as the main damage source is totally viable. It might not be every spell, but I don't expect pure theme casters to be the norm.

I think Unseen Servent is an air elemental so it should be in the Air Theme rather than Unthemed. I could be wrong about this...

I don't see any sources for that on a quick google search.

I have two really big documents for custom spells if you need them for ideas. They do have some very fun flavorful spells. One of my players can summon any kind of mundane drink they've tasted before. Thus, they've gotten pretty creative in using it to create blood stains, soapy water, and simply offering juice to creatures. Spells like this aren't useful for wargaming but are very fun in roleplay.

I'm open to looking at them if you've had them community reviewed in some way (reddit, giantitp, enworld, etc). Though, my opinion, I'm not sure 5e has room for spells as described above.

Included in the above argument- spells like Gust of Wind were changed. The new version is a variant of burning hands. Why not keep the original as well? While many might find it useless one of my players was able to hover high in the air using it in conjunction with a magic cloth. Why not keep the spells like this?

It can be used with magic cloth in it's current format.

To answer your question though: many spells were changed to be more viable. Gust of Wind's usage was too niche to be a recommended spell. Spells shouldn't always be universally great, but they should have a niche and be useful. Gust is a cantrip and fills the role of some minor wind.

Magic Missile is very strong. Shield (Now under a different name..) is not as easy to get as a spell. It relies on going into the force theme. Thus, an augmented Magic Missle or any Force spell can really mess with an encounter. I would lower the augmented damage in the Force Theme

Magic Missile is not stronger than any other 1 mana spell as far as I can see. See Spell Balance.

[Wherf]

Fair points! Here are some of my answers to your responses. Can't wait for the web version of these rules. I have a hard time CTRL+F to some of a new spells which can be a bit of a drag. Let me know if there is anything specific you are curious about playtesting.

fighter:

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this would make polearms the premier option for cavalier. That's not good.

Fair point. Having your mount disengage for a lance strike before moving in close to disrupt an enemy makes sense thematically too.

It's allowed by 5e. It shouldn't be. There isn't really an easy way to make this clear however.

It is not allowed in base 5e- since there is no fighting stance or style that allows a Player Character to dual-wield non-light weaponry.

Student of war and rallying cry fit the theme are are competitive with other 3rd level features.
Know your enemy is a trash feature imo. Please suggest a replacement.
Inspiring leader and bulwark are both good. It's missing an 18th level feature though.

To replace Know your enemy my friends had a few suggestions. I think our best idea is an ability that gives critical damage to the next attack (from an ally) after the warlord spends an action revealing a 'weakness'. Vulnerability is also applicable- but maybe too strong? Limits for this feature: using the feature a number of times for an Intellect recovering on a long rest, the next ally in initative must hit their first attack, or tie in 'Know Your Enemy' requiring observation of an enemy before using this feature on them. Hope these ideas help.

What fighter archetype is missing?

Reviewing the core book, I had not realized how much homebrew I've used for the Fighter class. Battlemaster was spread across the entire class for manuvers (love them), Eldritch Knight & Arcane Archer is the Magus class. Scout was put into Rogue. The only one I can really find is Champion and Brute- which aren't interesting options anyway.

rogue:

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The cryptic does not have a bleed effect that i can see. If you think there is an imbalance between subclasses please be more specific.

Woops- the bleed effect was from your older document before you moved on to themes and mana!

spells and themes:

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I'm open to looking at them if you've had them community reviewed in some way (reddit, giantitp, enworld, etc). Though, my opinion, I'm not sure 5e has room for spells as described above.

To clarify these custom spells are not mine. The best one I can recommend is 'The (Not Really) Complete Tome of Spells' document. A quick google should lead to a link on reddit. My experience with this document is that it has plenty of fun ideas from past editions etc.

[Marcloure]

It is not allowed in base 5e- since there is no fighting stance or style that allows a Player Character to dual-wield non-light weaponry.

In RAW 5e, Dual Wielder is a feat that lets you wield two one-handed weapons:
"You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light."

Reviewing the core book, I had not realized how much homebrew I've used for the Fighter class. Battlemaster was spread across the entire class for manuvers (love them), Eldritch Knight & Arcane Archer is the Magus class. Scout was put into Rogue. The only one I can really find is Champion and Brute- which aren't interesting options anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking about this, and even in RAW 5e there isn't much more than the knight, the warrior and the battlemaster. The archetype I can think of that doesn't fit in those three and isn't a style of play (like Stalwart Defender or Big-sword Hitter) is one more focused on ranged attacks.

EDIT: looking at 4th Edition, there is the arena fighter and the brawler fighter. While brawling is a style of play (using improvised weapons, clubs and so on), a fighter focused on "dirt" fighting could be very cool. An archetype used by mercenaries, gladiators, bandits and others "self-learned" fighters.

[Kryx]

To replace Know your enemy my friends had a few suggestions. I think our best idea is an ability that gives critical damage to the next attack (from an ally) after the warlord spends an action revealing a 'weakness'.

Critical damage on an upcoming attack would be OP when combined with a rogue. I'd like to ditch "Know your enemy" entirely. There is probably some good ideas in the 4e Warlord.

The archetype I can think of that doesn't fit in those three and isn't a style of play (like Stalwart Defender or Big-sword Hitter) is one more focused on ranged attacks.

A subclass based on a specific weapon is a poorly defined subclass. Subclasses should not be "I'm a great axeman" or "I'm a great swordsman" or "I'm a great archer". That design is actually limiting in that those characters now are only viable when they have those weapons. This is one of the main reasons why Fighting Style became Fighting Stance in my game: It should allow for more options, not limit them.

[Kryx]

Would anyone like to contribute? I could use a description for each theme.

I'd like 1 to 3 sentences describing each theme. The description would be something like:

You can change the properties of a creature or object.

You can command cosmic forces including luck, destiny, and curses.

These are very short. The ideal description would focus on the types of spells the theme contains and the type of character who would take a theme.

They would appear on the Themes page and at the top of every Theme page.

[Wherf]

I believe the Precognition spell needs to be removed or reworked. I'll paste the spell text below...

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Theme: Fate
As an action, you predict the near future, aiding yourself in combat. Whenever you make an attack roll, ability check, or a saving throw before the spell ends, you can roll a d6 and add the number rolled to the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Additionally, whenever you are attacked before the spell ends, you can roll a d6 and add the number rolled to your armor class.

1 Mana, Concentraton, 1 Minute duration

My character already had a very high AC (able to take this 1 mana spell with a Talent). Combining it with a Potion of Heroism which applies Bless my fighter was rolling over 20 to consistency attack.


I also find it interesting that Blur doesn't require concentration any more. We are going to play test this more. I'll see if I can write some nice descriptions for those themes tomorrow if no one else is going for it.

[Kryx]

I believe the Precognition spell needs to be removed or reworked.

Lets compare Bless vs Precognition:

Spoiler: Bless

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1 minute/mana, concentration
As an action, you show visions of the near future to up to three creatures you can see within 30 feet. Choose one of the following options:
Bane. The visions of the future that are slightly incorrect. Each target must make a Wisdom saving throw. Whenever a target that fails this saving throw makes an attack roll, ability check, or a saving throw before the spell ends, the target must roll a d4 and subtract the number rolled from the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw.
Bless. The visions of the future grant each creature temporary foresight. Whenever a target makes an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw before the spell ends, the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw.

Spoiler: Precognition

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1 minute/mana, concentration
As an action, you predict the near future, aiding yourself in combat. Whenever you make an attack roll, ability check, or a saving throw before the spell ends, you can roll a d6 and add the number rolled to the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw.

Additionally, whenever you are attacked before the spell ends, you can roll a d6 and add the number rolled to your armor class.

So Bless applies to 3 creatures, and adds d4 to attack rolls, ability checks, or saving throws.
So Precognition only applies to self, and adds d6 to attack rolls, ability checks, saving throws, or AC.

Both require concentration which means it can be broken. Applying to 3 characters is huge. d6 vs d4 is a big difference, but it only applies to self and can be broken via concentration. The AC is maybe 1 point too high as Shield of Faith is a bonus action +2 AC on any creature for 5 minutes. I'll reduce the AC on Precognition to d4 since Precognition has other benefits.

Combining it with a Potion of Heroism

This potion removes concentration from a spell that should have concentration and then things break. I'd argue that's a flaw of that potion, not other spells.

The same problem occurs with potions of Haste, Enlarge/reduce, etc. I would rule that a potion can not stack with any ongoing spell or at least not a spell that has the same benefit. (bonus types of older editions come to mind)

I also find it interesting that Blur doesn't require concentration any more. We are going to play test this more.

Blur, as RAW, is an inferior Mirror Image. The intention was to balance those two spells against eachother.

[Marcloure]

Hey.

I gave a small description to each theme. That took longer than I was expecting, but all right. All themes descriptions are at the end of this post.

While I was writing I tried some different text structures, and I'm not sure how the description is better written. Using the Air theme as an example, I wrote:

Air
Spells that control the winds to offer utility and movement control. With the Air theme you can push and crush your foes, soar into the air, blow whispering and strong winds and assume the form of air.

I'm not sure if the way I put it together is the best. In fact, I think it's not. Anyone with better writing, feel free to change and reorganize the text if you want to.
Another way I thought to word the same text:

Air
Air spells shape the winds to offer great utility and movement control. With Air spells you can push and crush your foes, soar into the air, blow whispering and strong winds and assume the form of air.

Also, the structure is not very concise. I kind of started writing in a certain style and slightly changed it around Death.
Again, it needs editing. I'm putting it here to get some opinion if the style is good.

Note: I'm not a writer and English is not my native language, so I'm also not sure how good the sentences are structured (positioning, punctuation and reading rhythm). And my vocabulary might be a bit limited.

Spoiler: Themes Description

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Spoiler: Air

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Air
Spells that shape the winds to offer utility and movement control. With the Air theme you can push and crush your foes, soar into the air, blow whispering and strong winds and assume the form of air.

Spoiler: Alteration

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Alteration
Spells that change the shape and properties of creatures and objects. With the Alteration theme you can bolster the body of creatures, give them new traits and create objects with magic.

Spoiler: Arcane

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Arcane
Spells that exert power over magic itself. With the Arcane theme you can write glyphs of protection, conjure creatures of magic and block the flow of magic.

Spoiler: Beast

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Beast
Spells that bound beasts and give animal traits to creatures. With the Beast theme you can charm beasts, call an animal companion and turn creatures into animals.

Spoiler: Charm

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Charm
Spells that use emotional connections to charm creatures. With the Charm theme you can befriend enemies, command others and shape their emotions.

Spoiler: Corrosion

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Corrosion
Spells that melt flesh and stone with lasting acid. With the Corrosion theme you can deal repeating damage, create dangerous clouds and protect creatures from acid.

Spoiler: Death

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Death
Spells that inflict pain with forces enemy to life. With the Death theme you can weaken your foes, deal great amount of necrotic damage and even scythe their life.

Spoiler: Divination

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Divination
Spells that reveal secrets and bolster vision. With the Divination theme you can see places far from you, reveal what is hidden and find what you search for.

Spoiler: Divine

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Divine
Spells that channel the power of gods to bring salvation or doom. With the Divine theme you can smite your foes with holy radiance, shield away supernal creatures and call forth divine beings.

Spoiler: Earth

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Earth
Spells that sculpt the earth to hinder and protect. With the Earth theme you can bind your foes, shake the earth and turn flesh into stone.

Spoiler: Ectoplasm

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Ectoplasm
Spells that conjure the stuff between the planes. With the Ectoplasm theme you can create objects from the matter of the Astral plane, cover your foes in sticky matter and engulf them in astral goo.

Spoiler: Fate

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Fate
Spells that command cosmic forces of luck, destiny and curses. With the Fate theme you can bless and bane, peer into the future and change things to come.

Spoiler: Fire

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Fire
Spells that channel elemental fire to incinerate and destroy. With the Fire theme you can give shape to flames, burn your foes and blast the field with searing energy.

Spoiler: Force

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Force
Spells that use magical energy in its purest form to damage and protect. With the Force theme you can make barriers of energy and strike your enemies with sheer power.

Spoiler: Frost

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Frost
Spells that channel elemental ice to hinder and freeze. With the Frost theme you can create blades of ice, bring cold lethargy to your foes and call frost storms.

Spoiler: Illusion

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Illusion
Spells that deceive the senses or minds of others. With the Illusion theme you can cause people to see things that are not there, to miss things that are there, to hear phantom noises or to remember what never happened.

Spoiler: Life

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Life
Spells that restore health and protect life. With the Life theme you can heal wounds, purify poisons and diseases, remove afflictions and bring the dead back to life.

Spoiler: Light

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Light
Spells that conjure bright radiance and bane the darkness. With the Light theme you can keep the shadows at bay, irradiate blinding light and burst your foes radiant energy.

Spoiler: Mind

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Mind
Spells that strikes the mind and thoughts of others. With the Mind theme you can lock thoughts of a creature, burst their brain with psychic damage, halt its reasoning and mess with memories.

Spoiler: Nature

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Nature
Spells that call on the primal forces and spirits for power. With the Nature theme you can cast moon light, sew webs, summon beings and spirits of nature, grow groves and control natural phenomena.

Spoiler: Planes

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Planes
Spells that reach beyond the veil of the worlds to bind and guard. With the Planes theme you can create planar havens, ban creatures from this plane, travel through the cosmos and bind outsiders to your will.

Spoiler: Plants

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Plants
Spells that exhort plants to aid or bind creatures. With the Plants theme you can control plants to grasp and damage your foes or to armor you, you can step through trees and make plants talk and move.

Spoiler: Poison

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Poison
Spells that spread toxins and weaken the health of creatures. With the Poison theme you can protect creatures from toxin, create clouds of poisonous gas and cast rays to poison your foes.

Spoiler: Protection

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Protection
Spells that ward creatures from harm and places from intruders. With the Protection theme you can ward your allies from damage, cast magical traps, seal passages and create safe havens.

Spoiler: Shadow

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Shadow
Spells that cloak vision and bring darkness. With the Shadow theme you can expel light, blend with the darkness and move thought shadows, deprive the sight of your foes and engulf them in darkness.

Spoiler: Storm

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Storm
Spells that manipulate the violence of lightning and thunder to destroy. With the Storm theme you can shock and stagger your foes, move as a thunder, cast lightnings that crosses the battle and summon tempests.

Spoiler: Telekinesis

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Telekinesis
Spells that treat magic as strength to act over creatures and objects. With the Telekinesis theme you can magically grasp, lift and hurl objects and creatures, you can give action to objects and crush your foes with concussive force.

Spoiler: Telepathy

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Telepathy
Spells that send words and thoughts to others. With the Telepathy theme you can speak to the mind of creatures and read their thoughts, send messages across the world and deprive someone from its capacity of speech.

Spoiler: Teleportation

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Teleportation
Spells that bend space and shorten distances to make movement instantaneous. With the Teleportation theme you can move across great distances in a mere moment, move groups of creatures, track down recent teleportation and instantaneously return home.

Spoiler: Time

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Time
Spells that threat to break the continuity and flow of time. With the Time theme you can make creatures experience time in faster or slower speed, to stop it completely and even to go back a few seconds in time.

Spoiler: Undeath

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Undeath
Spells that betray death to create dead servants and manipulate the souls of others. With the Undeath theme you can drain the life of others, speak with the deceased, create corpses marionettes, trap the soul of slayed foes, and make a touch of death on someone.

Spoiler: Water

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Water
Spells that create and shape elemental water to save and to drown. With the Water theme you can create fresh water, conjure fogs, burst torrents of water that push and damage, you can dry your foes’ veins, make prisons of water, cause floods and unleash gigantic waves.

[Kryx]

This is great! This wording definitely what I had in mind for "describe what the spells from this theme can do".

One aspect that is missing I'd say is a general theme description, irregardless of spells. I've flirted with the idea of Perks (aka Talents) coming from themes as well so it'd be nice to have a general theme description (1 sentence) and then 1-2 sentences about the spells.
With that in mind the "Air spells do X" version is better than the "Spells that X" version.

Maybe make this a google doc? That'd be easier to see them all and possibly add comments (from me or other people).

Thanks for putting this together!

[Wherf]

I've flirted with the idea of Perks (aka Talents) coming from themes as well so it'd be nice to have a general theme description (1 sentence) and then 1-2 sentences about the spells.
With that in mind the "Air spells do X" version is better than the "Spells that X" version.

Maybe make this a google doc? That'd be easier to see them all and possibly add comments (from me or other people).

Thanks for putting this together!

I really like that idea of a subset of feats/talents requiring a theme. I'd like to see more talent's in general, but that idea make's sense for Misty Visions = Illusion theme.

P.S. Kryx I sent you a PM about Smite/Battle Magic/Infused Strikes. Hope it sent correctly.

[Kryx]

I really like that idea of a subset of feats/talents requiring a theme. I'd like to see more talent's in general, but that idea make's sense for Misty Visions = Illusion theme.

I'm renaming talents (previously feats) to perks. I think it'll fit better.
There are a few perks that are based on a specific theme. I am thinking of moving those to the relevant theme, but I'm unsure. I also thought of moving some class features there and letting classes choose features based on theme (allowing for mixing and matching, but that requires more balance). Not sure.


Replying to the PM here so all can see:

If the spell requires an attack roll does it automatically hit like RAW 5e smites? If not, I imagine the character need to roll an attack, yes? You mentioned in a previous post that targets would obviously make a save if the spell required.

After the weapon attack hits? If the weapon attack hits then the spell attack hits. If the spell has a saving throw then the saving throw is still be required. This will make spells with attacks a bit better, but they aren't that common and saves have other effects so this should be ok.
Though this will make Force spells that auto hit complete garbage to use for Arcane Strike.... hmmm maybe that isn't the best route.

If they do work like smithes- How does this ability work for spells like Scorching Ray which has multiple attacks?

All would automatically hit the target hit by the weapon attack.

Can cantrips be used with these abilities? Does cantrip damage scale with level if done through the weapon? (5th, 11th, etc.)

The DPR seems pretty high if this attack can use scaling cantrip damage. Along with the various multiattacks some of these half-casters get in later levels.

A cantrip is a spell, yes. The scaling of cantrips to damage has been calculated as part of the DPR. See the Mage for example, though I need to update it as now Arcane Strike encompasses both spells and cantrips. The damage is actually too low now that spells and cantrips can't be stacked on the same weapon.

[Wherf]

I'm renaming talents (previously feats) to perks. I think it'll fit better.
There are a few perks that are based on a specific theme. I am thinking of moving those to the relevant theme, but I'm unsure. I also thought of moving some class features there and letting classes choose features based on theme (allowing for mixing and matching, but that requires more balance). Not sure.

Leaving perk requirements based on class does give them more variety. In fact, I'd love to see if there is a homebrew that has some feats exclusively for Fighters and other martial classes. I'll look into what homebrew I have saved. I might have some suggestions for more perks, only if they are balanced and extenstively playtested though.

[Kryx]

I meant moving class features themselves, not just moving some and offering them as feats. But that's a bit too much for the current version - I need to release what I have before going down radical paths that I may abandon.

I don't need extensive playtesting for ideas. I rarely playtest - I favor math far more. I just can't take the time to slog through everything so if it's been released to the community then there is feedback that I can quickly read and hopefully the author has revised some things.

I actually started going through spell by spell on "The (Not Really) Complete Tome of Spells" and there are some good ideas in there that I've started to convert.

[Marcloure]

As you asked, I moved the themes descriptions I've written to google docs, anyone can make their own editions and suggestions there.
I think anything I had to say is written in the introduction, so here it is:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

[Kryx]

I spent the time to get the web version ready for public viewing. It's all deployed, but I'm waiting on domains to update (which could take up to 48 hours). Once it's ready I'll share the URL here.

@Marcloure I used your doc as a source to create some theme descriptions. It'd be a great help if you could expand on that format for the other themes as well.

[Kryx]

https://marklenser.com now hosts my homebrew.

It's currently scoped down to the following:

• Ancestries (needs updating)
• Backgrounds (needs expanding. I'd love to split profession and cultural upbringing if possible, but that's not a top priority)
• Classes (needs review as some features are missing)
• Themes (needs to be synced with the spreadsheet and to add more spells)
• Monsters
• Equipment (needs to add weapons)

The site needs some optimizations (monsters, for example, take a long time to load due to how I have it set up)

I'll focus on syncing themes with the spreadsheet before I leave for vacation next week.

[Marcloure]

@Marcloure I used your doc as a source to create some theme descriptions. It'd be a great help if you could expand on that format for the other themes as well.

Sure, the format you suggested is far more informative and natural. I'll be rewriting the descriptions for themes (already did for some).
___

The site is pretty good! Easy to navigate and pleasant to look. Really great.

The spells list could use a line between mana levels to help tell when the base cost increases (i.e.: a line to section apart 1 mana spells from 2 mana spells and so on).

[thwright]

Know your Enemy is a trash feature imo. Please suggest a replacement.

What about the Rogue Mastermind's Master of Tactics?

[Kryx]

Sure, the format you suggested is far more informative and natural. I'll be rewriting the descriptions for themes (already did for some).

Any interest in finishing off the themes? The ones you've updated are great.

You can see the latest at https://marklenser.com/5e/themes

I need: Life, Light, Mind, Nature, Planes, Plants, Poison, Protection, Shadow, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Teleportation, Time, and Undeath

[Marcloure]

Any interest in finishing off the themes? The ones you've updated are great.

You can see the latest at https://marklenser.com/5e/themes

I need: Life, Light, Mind, Nature, Planes, Plants, Poison, Protection, Shadow, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Teleportation, Time, and Undeath

Oh, yes of course, I'll finish writing them up. I just had two wild weeks, so I couldn't think of much beyond work and college.

I'll have them tomorrow, maybe.

[Steampunkette]

Sorry for coming in WAY late...

The changes to spellcasting are honestly kind of frustrating, here. You've taken the two most defining class features of Warlocks (Short Rest Casting, Eldritch Invocations) and given them to literally -every- other primary spellcasting class and Bards, too. And then you made Warlocks into Intelligence casters. Which, to some degree, I can understand... But why not make Occultists choose Int or Cha at level 1? Seems like a neat compromise.

Further, making -everyone- use Mana Points dissolves the minimal distinction that exists between Psionics and Magic.

Overall, I feel like you've eliminated a -ton- of class identity, here. The Warlock has been gutted of it's uniqueness with little more than "Oh, you get your power from an ancient being" left in tatters, hanging off the framework that's been stretched out for everyone else to hang their hats on.

I understand the strive for balance. But things can be Balanced while being Different. And, really, the classes should have some different core mechanics to make them interesting and engaging. Not just different "Mana Pools" to try and hinge everything off of that.

[Marcloure]

Sorry for coming in WAY late...

The changes to spellcasting are honestly kind of frustrating, here. You've taken the two most defining class features of Warlocks (Short Rest Casting, Eldritch Invocations) and given them to literally -every- other primary spellcasting class and Bards, too. And then you made Warlocks into Intelligence casters. Which, to some degree, I can understand... But why not make Occultists choose Int or Cha at level 1? Seems like a neat compromise.

I don't think everyone having Eldritch Invocation-like advancement is something bad. It allows a character to advance in different ways, and opens up more customization options. And that is great! No? I mean, if you have a cool progression design, why not apply it to everything? Well, because then all classes are too similar, right?
I'll talk about what I think of class identity in Kryx rules at the end of this post.

About Warlocks being Int-based, well I can understand your disagreement. One of my players' character is a warlock, and he got really surprised when he saw the change. By the text, it's pretty clear that a warlock is some sort of eldritch researcher, but at the same time, pacts made on a whim doesn't feel quite right being Int-based. Giving the warlock the option to choose between Intelligence or Charisma could be a thing, I guess. But then, in the case of a Cha-based warlock, the class would be literally a Sorcerer (I'll say more about it at the end).

Further, making -everyone- use Mana Points dissolves the minimal distinction that exists between Psionics and Magic.

There is no Psionic option for players in 5e, and every monster that mentions psionics use it as innate spellcasting, which isn't very far from spell slots. You could mention that UA, but even WotC discarded it for poor design. So, there is no distinction between Psionics and Magic because there is no Psionics to begin with.
We can agree, however, that the Psionicist needs something to stand out from the Mage. I think Kryx also admitted that, but further improving this class isn't a priority.

Overall, I feel like you've eliminated a -ton- of class identity, here. The Warlock has been gutted of it's uniqueness with little more than "Oh, you get your power from an ancient being" left in tatters, hanging off the framework that's been stretched out for everyone else to hang their hats on.

I understand the strive for balance. But things can be Balanced while being Different. And, really, the classes should have some different core mechanics to make them interesting and engaging. Not just different "Mana Pools" to try and hinge everything off of that.

As someone who loves 4e, I admit that class identity was one of the biggest faults in that edition (if not the biggest). When I got to read the Kryx's houserules, I too had the feeling that the spellcasting classes were way too similar, they have just a few minor features that tries to stand one from the other. But as I started to run a game by his rules, I understand that the differentiation comes mostly from a) archetypes and b) themes selection.

I have in my table a druid, a warlock and a sorcerer, and I'll tell you that they do NOT play the same. Some of that does come from their classes, but most of it comes from their theme selection: the druid chose Life and Plant, the Warlock Earth and Storm, the Sorcerer Air and Storm. The druid have a really distinct role, the warlock and the sorcerer are close, but they both contribute in their own way.

About the classes itself, while the druid's Natural Explorer plays a huge part in our game (it's a post-apocalypse game), the warlock Grimoire and the sorcerer's Resilient Husk isn't really enough to make you want to play that class. In the end, my players made their selection based on their backstory. While that can be a good point, a more evident mechanical incentive and reward by your class choice wouldn't hurt. And I think that is the big deal, both the grimoire as the resilient husk are somewhat passive.

As an example, let's look back at the Cha-based Warlock. If we have them, the weight of the Warlock against the Sorcerer would be "do I want a bit more AC and damage or some extra spells?". I don't think that is enough.
The naturalist and the acolyte are in a sweeter spot, really. They already have a very strong flavor identity, and their archetypes and class features do have unique personality. And what I think is the most important, both Natural Explorer and Channel Divinity is something that has it's moments and is something to pick a class for.

After all that, I think the Warlock and the Sorcerer level 2 abilities need more presence to stand out. I can't talk much about the wizard, as I don't have one of it in my table.
Oh, and the martials are neat. Both the monk and the barbarian of my other two players have a strong identity. Martial arts and ki, reckless and rage; very good weights.

[Steampunkette]

(Lots of Stuff)

I think we can mostly agree to what you've got, here, with a couple of caveats:

Themes. An Occultist with the Arcane and Death themes is essentially the same animal as a Mage with the Arcane and Death themes. If that's the case, why have two separate classes? Just make "Occultist" a subclass of Mage and give Mage their class-kit options. If the primary difference between two classes is story then get rid of one class and give the other the option to have that story. You don't need mechanical clutter if it's going to be the same mechanics. Fighter and Barbarian have got distinct mechanics. Occultist and Mage? Not so much.

Mike Mearls hosts livestreams where he is actively still working on the Mystic with an eye towards refining the class while maintaining Psi Points and Disciplines and stuff. So even if Psionics aren't currently SUPPORTED in 5e, their lasting concept that has been around since 1st edition D&D is still casting it's shadow. That they use Psi Points rather than Spell Slots as a mechanical distinction from Magic Spells.

Honestly? I'd ditch Themes as a concept and go with Pathfinder 2e's magical choices: 4 magic types. Arcane, Divine, Occult, Primal. Have your class (Or in the case of Sorcerer, subclass) determine which type of spells you can use and skip out on the fiddliness of having 33 different "Themes" for spells and locking players in to 2 of them at level 1 with no limitations.

As it stands, the only difference between a Psionicist and a Mage at level 1 is that a Mage trades a hit point for a Spellbook. And thanks to the way Magical Insight is written, HAVING a spellbook does nothing for you because the only way to swap out spells is to gain a level. Unless, of course, the Mage takes the Spell Recall perk at level 3 or higher... Maybe that's a mistake in the text, but it's where it is, right now.

Fighters can do their stances and second winds. Barbarians can rage and go without armor. Mages, Psions, and Occultists? The only meaningful differences they've got at level 1 are in their hit points and proficiencies.

[Kryx]

Oh, yes of course, I'll finish writing them up. I just had two wild weeks, so I couldn't think of much beyond work and college.

I'll have them tomorrow, maybe.

No worries, I was on vacation. Thanks for doing them!!

=================

The changes to spellcasting are honestly kind of frustrating, here. You've taken the two most defining class features of Warlocks (Short Rest Casting, Eldritch Invocations) and given them to literally -every- other primary spellcasting class and Bards, too.

The goal is to have consistent casting mechanisms. D&D 5e is based off the resting system and if a group play differently than expected certain classes (Warlock and Monk mainly) are significantly impacted. There are often competing priorities amongst different members of the group for when they rest and if they care about short rests. This is something that I'd consider poor design. This change enshrines the short rest mechanic in the game by ensuring all classes benefit from short rests. It prevents RAW long rest casters from blowing up encounters if groups only end up having 1 or 2 encounters a day. Addressing the problems that my rules attempt to fix is a necessary change to 5e imo.

And then you made Warlocks into Intelligence casters. Which, to some degree, I can understand... But why not make Occultists choose Int or Cha at level 1? Seems like a neat compromise.

The original implementation of the Warlock is as an Intelligence based caster. See posts like https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/16...risma-casters/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/com...t_int/dkiytfh/. The Warlock's lore is intelligence based. Their lore is rife with a thirst of knowledge.

Unlike the Acolyte that works as both a Wisdom based and Charisma based caster, I believe the Occultist is purely an Intelligence based caster and that Charisma is not a fitting option. You're free to make other choices.

pacts made on a whim doesn't feel quite right being Int-based

There are hundreds, if not thousands of stories of intelligent spellcasters making horrible choices for more power. A common one is blood magic. Wisdom would be the stat that would let you know that the pact is maybe not the best idea.

=================

Further, making -everyone- use Mana Points dissolves the minimal distinction that exists between Psionics and Magic.

A point based system is used in many tabletop games and nearly all video games. A slot based system was brought up on the reddit thread asking for legacy elements of the game. I think slot systems are there for nostalgic and simplistic reasons, but counting "points" (or mana) is simpler, easier for newer players to pick up, and more balanced (if short rests are enforced and people can't alpha strike encounters).

Psionics and Arcane/Divine don't need to be separate systems. Historically that has been true, but Arcane and Divine were also separate historically and now they are not. Magic is magic, no matter its source.

Overall, I feel like you've eliminated a -ton- of class identity, here. The Warlock has been gutted of it's uniqueness with little more than "Oh, you get your power from an ancient being" left in tatters, hanging off the framework that's been stretched out for everyone else to hang their hats on.

I understand the strive for balance. But things can be Balanced while being Different. And, really, the classes should have some different core mechanics to make them interesting and engaging. Not just different "Mana Pools" to try and hinge everything off of that.

Identity has been significantly expanded in many areas - the Monk, Naturalist (Ranger), and Sorcerer have significantly better identities than RAW.
"Arcane Inspiration" on the Mage and the "Spell Recall" perk for the Mage (if a Mage chooses to take it) give the Mage class a significant identity of being able to change their spells as needed. The identity of a maluable caster is significantly stronger than the RAW Wizard.
Sorcerers now have "Power Surge" which solidifies their identity as a damage dealing spellcaster.

I think the approach that I've taken to address the spell recharge mechanics to align with 5e's rest system is the best option to address the problem. I would challenge you to come up with a better one that addresses the issues.

When I got to read the Kryx's houserules, I too had the feeling that the spellcasting classes were way too similar, they have just a few minor features that tries to stand one from the other. But as I started to run a game by his rules, I understand that the differentiation comes mostly from a) archetypes and b) themes selection.

Spellcasting classes still have variety.

• Mage has "Arcane Inspiration" to change known spells on a short rest. It also has the optional "Spell Recall" perk to swap out 1 spell immediately 1/short rest. This maintains the Spells Prepared feeling from RAW and even expands upon it.
• Acolyte has "Channel Divinity: Divine Inspiration" which is the same as "Arcane Inspiration", but uses a resource. This maintains the Spells Prepared feeling from RAW.
• Sorcerer replaces sorcery points (which should've always been used for metamagic) with the Power Surge which as an identity feature.
• Occultist's Eldritch Secrets allows the Warlock to pick spells outside the theme limits. The Grimoire, which is quite similar to the Book of Ancient Secrets from RAW, is a really large identity piece of the Occultist that solidifies them as a ritual caster.

Naturalist had it's spells prepared feeling stripped out as it does not match their identity imo. Minstrel focuses more on group buffs than its spellcasting.

=================

We can agree, however, that the Psionicist needs something to stand out from the Mage. I think Kryx also admitted that, but further improving this class isn't a priority.

Both the Mage and Psionicist core classes should be quite solid. Both need significant work on the subclasses though.

the warlock Grimoire and the sorcerer's Resilient Husk isn't really enough to make you want to play that class.
...
After all that, I think the Warlock and the Sorcerer level 2 abilities need more presence to stand out.

Eldritch Secrets + Grimoire for the Occultist and Resilient Husk + Power Surge on the Sorcerer should be quite significant features and identity pieces. I understand if players don't want to play that type of character out of personal preference, but I expect that those features should mechanically be quite comparable to other classes. Do you disagree?



=================

Themes. An Occultist with the Arcane and Death themes is essentially the same animal as a Mage with the Arcane and Death themes. If that's the case, why have two separate classes? Just make "Occultist" a subclass of Mage and give Mage their class-kit options. If the primary difference between two classes is story then get rid of one class and give the other the option to have that story. You don't need mechanical clutter if it's going to be the same mechanics. Fighter and Barbarian have got distinct mechanics. Occultist and Mage? Not so much.

The flavor profiles of an Occultist and Mage are very similar to their RAW counterparts and those profiles are very very different from eachother. Their flavors are surely not redundant.

I think your argument is mechanics and I'd say that there is significant difference there as well. Compare their core class features and their subclasses. Take level 3 or 6 for example. Sure, themes could be the same and many of the spells cast by the class will be quite similar, but that is true by RAW as well comparing an Evo Wizard vs a blaster Sorcerer for example. There is more opportunity for crossover in spell lists in my version, but that's it really.

Honestly? I'd ditch Themes as a concept and go with Pathfinder 2e's magical choices: 4 magic types. Arcane, Divine, Occult, Primal. Have your class (Or in the case of Sorcerer, subclass) determine which type of spells you can use and skip out on the fiddliness of having 33 different "Themes" for spells and locking players in to 2 of them at level 1 with no limitations.

And what of the Arcane Cleric? Do they get Arcane or Divine or both? Same question for the Thuergy Wizard (UA, but same concept)
What of the Fire Monk? Are their spells Arcane or Primal or do they have a custom spell list?
What of the Celestial Warlock? Do they get Occult or Divine or both?
What about a Warlock who has an Water based patron? Do they get Occult, Arcane, and Primal?

1 (or even 2) types of magic falls apart in many cases. Themes are there to provide more identity to every character.

As it stands, the only difference between a Psionicist and a Mage at level 1 is that a Mage trades a hit point for a Spellbook. And thanks to the way Magical Insight is written, HAVING a spellbook does nothing for you because the only way to swap out spells is to gain a level. Unless, of course, the Mage takes the Spell Recall perk at level 3 or higher... Maybe that's a mistake in the text, but it's where it is, right now.

RAW D&D 5e has very little difference between many classes at level 1. A RAW Sorcerer is not very different from a RAW Bard or even a RAW Wizard. 5e Ramps up im complexity around level 3. Level 1 is basically a training level. Complaining about the level 1 similarities is not a fair argument when RAW is quite similar.
As Marcloure mentioned, I wouldn't look too deeply at Psionicist vs Mage - something needs to be done there to increase their differences or merge them.

[Marcloure]

Eldritch Secrets + Grimoire for the Occultist and Resilient Husk + Power Surge on the Sorcerer should be quite significant features and identity pieces. I understand if players don't want to play that type of character out of personal preference, but I expect that those features should mechanically be quite comparable to other classes. Do you disagree?

Eldritch Secrets + Grimoire means the Occultist is the class to pick if you want to access spells from any theme. In practice, considering from level 1 to 10, the Occultist have access to 1–4 spells from any theme, and gains the Ritual Caster perk/feat for free. The Sorcerer is the class focused on combat and bursting, but what they really do is to have some extra AC and to deal 1–5 extra damage per short rest, from 1st to 10th level.

Although the ideas are there, I don't think they have enough impact and identity. My Warlock player wasn't really impressed when he saw he could have access to one or two extra spells from any theme, and my Sorcerer player also didn't pick it because he though dealing some extra numbers is cool.
In RAW 5e, Sorcerers have Metamagic and extra slots through sorcery points, Warlocks have Eldritch Invocation and short rest slots. Both should be reason to choose its class, given the rest of the class and its numbers were fine, the same way Divine Smite and Rage should be enough to make you want to play a Paladin or a Barbarian. Well, RAW Sorcerer and Warlock is one of the classes I least like, so using them as good examples feels kind of wrong, but metamagic and short rest slot is a strong identity.

I think RAW Ranger have a similar problem to your Occultist and Sorcerer. The idea is there, the Ranger have Natural Explorer and Favorite Enemy, the class is better at hunting and surviving, but the features don't have enough impact. In the case of the Occultist and the Sorcerer is not a case of power or situational abilities, pumping up those numbers would possible unbalance the classes, but their early abilities need to be cooler, I think. A player should read them and think "oh, I want that!".

Just sketching something out of my mind, giving the Sorcerer something like Burn from Pathfinder Kineticist in place of both Resilient Husk and Power Surge could work better:

You unleash all your innate magic, consuming your own health for more power. While active the following effects take place.

• Your AC equals 13 + Dexterity modifier (max 4).
• When you deal damage to a creature or object with a sorcerer spell, you can deal ? extra damage.
• Creatures that start withing 5 feet of you take ? damage.
• You lose ? hit points at the end of your turn.

You can maintain this active up to 1 minute, and the effect ends if you fall unconscious. Once used, this effect can't be used again until you complete a long rest.

It's basically the same, but cooler, I think. More like Rage and less like "you can deal a bit extra damage", as it lasts for soem rounds. In fact, maybe this is too close to the Bloodrager, but as the base class is different enough, I don't think this would be a problem.

[Ugganaut]

Has anyone tried out the Sorcerer Shapeshifter. I still can't wrap my head around Origin Form.
Level 1 Human Sorcerer's, same stats, feats and spell choices, but different origin forms:
The Frost Giant is medium sized - not a giant, and is no better at dealing with cold environments.
The Pixie is medium sized, can't fly, does 1d6 blungeoning dmg with a punch, and has the same AC as an Earth Elemental form.
The Water Elemental can drown.
The Shadow isn't insubstantial, and...his skin turns black?
The Quickling is medium sized, movement of 30 feet like everyone else, and doesn't use Dex to determine his AC.
No matter what form they choose, they are identical in all ways but visual, and some forms don't make much sense visually. I'd understand if you were taking on aspects of your origin form, and maybe there was a list of appropriate traits to choose from depending on that origin form(Resistance, Movement, AC change, Natural Weapons etc). But actually changing into a lich, but having no properties of a lich, still seems odd.

Am I missing something?

[Marcloure]

Has anyone tried out the Sorcerer Shapeshifter. I still can't wrap my head around Origin Form.
Level 1 Human Sorcerer's, same stats, feats and spell choices, but different origin forms:
The Frost Giant is medium sized - not a giant, and is no better at dealing with cold environments.
The Pixie is medium sized, can't fly, does 1d6 blungeoning dmg with a punch, and has the same AC as an Earth Elemental form.
The Water Elemental can drown.
The Shadow isn't insubstantial, and...his skin turns black?
The Quickling is medium sized, movement of 30 feet like everyone else, and doesn't use Dex to determine his AC.
No matter what form they choose, they are identical in all ways but visual, and some forms don't make much sense visually. I'd understand if you were taking on aspects of your origin form, and maybe there was a list of appropriate traits to choose from depending on that origin form(Resistance, Movement, AC change, Natural Weapons etc). But actually changing into a lich, but having no properties of a lich, still seems odd.

Am I missing something?

Those benefits come from the Origin itself. Frost origin gives resistance to cold, Shadow Sorcerers can eventually move through things, so on. I think Sea Sorcery could indeed add the ability to breath underwater at 6th level.

Would be better if each form had its own features and drawbacks? Maybe. It sure would be nice to effectively turn into a giant, but I think that would be very hard to successfully apply and balance for all origins.

===============

I just noticed Wild Shape is back to all naturalists, and that they gain their Circle feature at first level. Ok, my druid player will have to change a lot of things.
Also, back on the class identity topic, Wild Shape is way more effective on defining a class than Resilient Husk + Power Surge or Eldritch Secrets + Grimoire is. So, yeah, I am starting to really think the Sorcerer needs more to define its fantasy.

[Ugganaut]

For flavour, I was thinking something like "takes on aspects of origin form".
You could have a list of abilities, and each form tells you which you can choose. Things like AC 15+Con for physically tougher types, speed boost, resistance, water breathing. As you go up you could choose more, or gain access to a stronger ability suite, like "move through solid objects" similar to the Blood Hunter(Ghost) for any incorporeal types. At an appropriate level, you may get Polymorph 1/long rest, but only into your origin form. Might be hard to make a bunch of balanced options for low/mid/high tier, I'm not sure on that. The current version is definitely balanced, I just can't make sense of it.