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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    RogueGuy

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    Default [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Inspired by this : http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...6&postcount=14

    I don't know what a conspiracy feat would look like, but maybe you geniuses can blaze the path.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Well, let's start with defining what a [Conspiracy] feat is. Right away, I have an idea, and may come up with another.

    The first idea is having them be coordinated actions that have a condition of not being found out by the enemy(s) that it affects or else the enemy gets to do something that can interrupt the action, probably just an Attack of Opportunity. Bluff checks against Sense Motive checks, with all the people on the Bluff check side needing to have the feat. Basically PF's Teamwork feats with an extra condition, a way to make them more useful is to have them be actual special actions, like Volley Fire, specified by the feat.

    As an example, two Martial characters could select a [Conspiracy] feat to have a pair of Initiative-simultaneous attacks that guarantee the target to be flatfooted for the attack, allowing Rogues a more useful and reliable method of Sneak Attack use. The setup would allow anyone making attack rolls to do it, so a gish with attack roll spells could grab it to assist the Rogue with landing Sneak Attack, and the simultaneous attack could also stack the damage for overcoming DR. However, if the target passes the Sense Motive check, they aren't flatfooted, but still eat the stacked damage.

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    Well, let's start with defining what a [Conspiracy] feat is. Right away, I have an idea, and may come up with another.

    The first idea is having them be coordinated actions that have a condition of not being found out by the enemy(s) that it affects or else the enemy gets to do something that can interrupt the action, probably just an Attack of Opportunity. Bluff checks against Sense Motive checks, with all the people on the Bluff check side needing to have the feat. Basically PF's Teamwork feats with an extra condition, a way to make them more useful is to have them be actual special actions, like Volley Fire, specified by the feat.

    As an example, two Martial characters could select a [Conspiracy] feat to have a pair of Initiative-simultaneous attacks that guarantee the target to be flatfooted for the attack, allowing Rogues a more useful and reliable method of Sneak Attack use. The setup would allow anyone making attack rolls to do it, so a gish with attack roll spells could grab it to assist the Rogue with landing Sneak Attack, and the simultaneous attack could also stack the damage for overcoming DR. However, if the target passes the Sense Motive check, they aren't flatfooted, but still eat the stacked damage.
    I like that idea. Seems like it needs more oomph. Two people with the same feat is difficult to swing. I do like having them hinge on sense motive checks, however.

    I was thinking for one of them that once per level, the player can designate one hostile NPC to be a conspirator, automatically moving their reaction to freindly.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Perhaps [Conspiracy] just requires ranks in at least one of: Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Hide, or Move Silently? This allows RP-focused feats as well as combat feats.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    What Morphic Tide is suggesting is reinventing Pathfinder's [Teamwork] Feats, which don't work for exactly the reason you stated: it's difficult to get multiple people to pick the same feats.

    What rferries is suggesting is reinventing the prerequisite.

    What I would suggest is to have [Conspiracy] be a type of feat which requires preparation to use, which gives you something to do while the caster-types prepare their spells.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Inspired by Jorm's suggestion, here it is:
    Back Stab [Conspiracy, Fighter]
    "You Know How I said I'd Kill you Last? I lied."
    Prerequisites: Intimidate 5 Ranks, Diplomacy 3 Ranks.
    Benefits: At the beginning of the day you may choose a number of creatures with an attitude of indifferent or better, or are under the fear effects of your intimidate skill. The first time you make an attack against that creature it must make a fortitude save or die (DC: 10+1/4 Damage dealt). Your foe is flatfooted against this attack, and even if they make the save they rake a -2 penalty on all saves, skill checks, and attack rolls as long as they see you and for 1d2 hours afterwards.

    Probably too powerful, but that's what sprang to mind

    Possible Change 3d4 minutes replacing 1d2 hours.

    I've got a Knife for That!
    Benefits: As a swift action you may "find" (whether you packed it preplanned, etc) a single dagger of either adamantine, silver, or cold iron. If you sell this dagger you must buy a dagger of each (and not resell them) before you can use this feat again.
    Last edited by Westhart; 2017-11-15 at 09:09 PM.
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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    I was more thinking along the lines of...

    Going Equipped [Conspiracy]
    The time you spend packing your equipment pays off.
    Prerequisites: Sleight of Hand 4 ranks or Use Rope 4 ranks.
    Benefit: You can prepare this conspiracy by spending 15 minutes making sure your equipment is in place. If you do, you can choose up to one item per rank you have in Sleight of Hand or Use Rope (whichever you have more of); you can draw these items from wherever they're held as a free action and you get a +4 bonus to sleight of hand and use rope checks related to these items.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I was more thinking along the lines of...

    Going Equipped [Conspiracy]
    The time you spend packing your equipment pays off.
    Prerequisites: Sleight of Hand 4 ranks or Use Rope 4 ranks.
    Benefit: You can prepare this conspiracy by spending 15 minutes making sure your equipment is in place. If you do, you can choose up to one item per rank you have in Sleight of Hand or Use Rope (whichever you have more of); you can draw these items from wherever they're held as a free action and you get a +4 bonus to sleight of hand and use rope checks related to these items.
    Ah, I got you now, I was still thinking of someone conspiring against their party . I would make it a [Fighter] Feat, but otherwise I like it

    EDIT: I'd also allow it to count as quickdraw for prerequisites (Masterthrowere requires quickdraw, can't think of anything else.)
    Last edited by Westhart; 2017-11-15 at 08:43 PM.
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Hmm I was thinking a conspiracy should involve 2 or more people

    Get Our Stories Straight[Conspiracy]
    Here's what we tell them...
    Prerequisite: Craft(Conspiracy) 4 Ranks.

    By spending 15 minutes in a huddle quietly discussing an illicit act you may make a Craft(Conspiracy) check (rolled secretly by the DM).

    Any bluff check any member of the huddle makes with regards to the illicit act in question uses the result of the Craft(Conspiracy check).

    In addition any time two members of the conspiracy are asked the same question involving the illicit act their answers are the same.

    Should a member of the conspiracy tell another character not involved in the conspiracy about the conspiracy then that character is automatically aware of any attempt to use the Craft(Conspiracy) check in place of a bluff against it.

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by gawwy View Post
    Hmm I was thinking a conspiracy should involve 2 or more people

    Get Our Stories Straight[Conspiracy]
    Here's what we tell them...
    Prerequisite: Craft(Conspiracy) 4 Ranks.

    By spending 15 minutes in a huddle quietly discussing an illicit act you may make a Craft(Conspiracy) check (rolled secretly by the DM).

    Any bluff check any member of the huddle makes with regards to the illicit act in question uses the result of the Craft(Conspiracy check).

    In addition any time two members of the conspiracy are asked the same question involving the illicit act their answers are the same.

    Should a member of the conspiracy tell another character not involved in the conspiracy about the conspiracy then that character is automatically aware of any attempt to use the Craft(Conspiracy) check in place of a bluff against it.
    I'd suggest make the bluff impact be that they use either their own bluff check or the Craft (Conspiracy) result, whichever is higher.

    Burden of Proof [Conspiracy]
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. - Carl Sagan
    Prerequisite: Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks, Craft (Conspiracy) 15 ranks
    Benefit: After discussing the plan for an illicit course of action to be performed within the next week while within a lead-lined room with all of your co-conspirators present for at least one hour, all details of the plan itself become cloaked against any form of divination that does not involve divine intervention (i.e. the commune spell is unaffected, but divination is) in a manner similar to a nondetection spell that applies to all divination magics instead of only those listed in that spell's description, using your Craft (Conspiracy) check result (rolled secretly by the DM) as the caster level check DC to overcome the effect. While enacting the plan (that is, while taking actions that are a part of the plan), you and your co-conspirators, as well as any equipment integral to the plan itself, also become difficult to sense magically, gaining the same benefit.
    EDIT: If any co-conspirator reveals the conspiracy to someone not part of it, that individual can pierce this effect without needing a level check, and anyone this individual warns but who didn't hear it from a co-conspirator gains a +5 bonus to pierce the effect.

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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by Avigor View Post
    I'd suggest make the bluff impact be that they use either their own bluff check or the Craft (Conspiracy) result, whichever is higher.
    Usually i would agree with you. But the intent of the feat is to make sure everyone is telling the same lie rather than creating holes in the naritive by "improvising", so I'd lean on leaving it as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avigor View Post
    Burden of Proof [Conspiracy]
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. - Carl Sagan
    Prerequisite: Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks, Craft (Conspiracy) 15 ranks
    Benefit: After discussing the plan for an illicit course of action to be performed within the next week while within a lead-lined room with all of your co-conspirators present for at least one hour, all details of the plan itself become cloaked against any form of divination that does not involve divine intervention (i.e. the commune spell is unaffected, but divination is) in a manner similar to a nondetection spell that applies to all divination magics instead of only those listed in that spell's description, using your Craft (Conspiracy) check result (rolled secretly by the DM) as the caster level check DC to overcome the effect. While enacting the plan (that is, while taking actions that are a part of the plan), you and your co-conspirators, as well as any equipment integral to the plan itself, also become difficult to sense magically, gaining the same benefit.
    I like this one though, quite a lot. Possibly add a line saying if someone squeals the effect can be pierced?

    Here's another

    Exactly as planned [Conspiracy]
    I love it when a plan comes together
    Prerequisite: Craft (Conspiracy) 8 ranks
    Benefit: After discussing the plans for an illicit course of action to be performed within the next week for an hour each member of the conspiricy may be assigned a skill based task involved with the conspiracy.

    Take 20 on a Craft(Conspiracy) check, this check can be aided by all other members of the conspiracy. When a member performs their given task they may use this check in place of their own, though they may still add competance bonuses from equipment they have that was present when the conspiracy was planned.

    If a memeber of the conspiricy tells a non-member of the conspircy then they become aware of every task to be executed and more importantly, where and when it will be executed.
    Last edited by gawwy; 2017-11-16 at 02:18 AM.

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by gawwy View Post
    Usually i would agree with you. But the intent of the feat is to make sure everyone is telling the same lie rather than creating holes in the naritive by "improvising", so I'd lean on leaving it as is.
    Understandable, but the point I was making is that some people might not be as skilled in the delivery.

    Quote Originally Posted by gawwy View Post
    I like this one though, quite a lot. Possibly add a line saying if someone squeals the effect can be pierced?
    Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by gawwy View Post
    Here's another

    Exactly as planned [Conspiracy]
    I love it when a plan comes together
    Prerequisite: Craft (Conspiracy) 8 ranks
    Benefit: After discussing the plans for an illicit course of action to be performed within the next week for an hour each member of the conspiricy may be assigned a skill based task involved with the conspiracy.

    Take 20 on a Craft(Conspiracy) check, this check can be aided by all other members of the conspiracy. When a member performs their given task they may use this check in place of their own, though they may still add competance bonuses from equipment they have that was present when the conspiracy was planned.

    If a memeber of the conspiricy tells a non-member of the conspircy then they become aware of every task to be executed and more importantly, where and when it will be executed.
    Nice.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Craft (Conspiracy) shouldn't really be a thing because it's not actually, well, crafting. It doesn't follow any of the rules for crafting. You could make it a new knowledge or profession or just a new skill, but I don't see why you can't conspire with standard skills.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Craft (Conspiracy) shouldn't really be a thing because it's not actually, well, crafting. It doesn't follow any of the rules for crafting. You could make it a new knowledge or profession or just a new skill, but I don't see why you can't conspire with standard skills.
    I'd say it's a new use of bluff since you can bluff to hide a message and all.
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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Craft (Conspiracy) shouldn't really be a thing because it's not actually, well, crafting. It doesn't follow any of the rules for crafting. You could make it a new knowledge or profession or just a new skill, but I don't see why you can't conspire with standard skills.
    I hear you on the shouldn't be a craft skill. Initially I had envisaged the craft check to be someone making a plan using maps and research and such but that's probably more a profession thing than a craft thing. I did however want it to be int based to encourage mastermind types to take it.

    After thinking about it for a while I stick by making it int. My reasoning is the mental stats map to conspiracy as following

    int: making a plan,
    wis: knowing whether the plan is a good idea,
    cha: convincing others to stick to the plan

    Of the existing skills profession(master mind) makes the most sense (could you sell your services as a mastermind?) but its wis based.

    Im mentally rebelling against just making it the relevant skill check (like bluff ect) for two reasons:

    How would things that don't just replicate skill checks work, example: Burden of Proof.

    I wanted a centralized thing to indicate skillfulness of plotting.

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    I'd say it's a new use of bluff since you can bluff to hide a message and all.
    I was leaning away from using bluff for the check because I wanted to use the same skill check for different things across multiple feats (as has been done).

    I also wanted the first feat to act as a pseudo x to y feat for bluff and future ones to do the same.... But now realize that may be too powerful (and that exactly as planned may be too powerful as a result)


    I would also like to say that a side goal here was to give PCs incentive to plan out heists and such Ocean 11s style rather than just go with knock down the door and hope the DM provides a path. Is that a noble en-devour and do these feats actually achieve that?
    Last edited by gawwy; 2017-11-16 at 05:42 PM.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    I don't think [Conspiracy] feats should force people to use an ability score which a lot of martials lack. Why can't a fighter or a ranger (both STR/DEX>CON>DEX/STR>WIS>INT>CHA) conspire? Instead I think it should be something which just rewards you for doing something in the time when wizards and such are preparing their spells.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I don't think [Conspiracy] feats should force people to use an ability score which a lot of martials lack. Why can't a fighter or a ranger (both STR/DEX>CON>DEX/STR>WIS>INT>CHA) conspire? Instead I think it should be something which just rewards you for doing something in the time when wizards and such are preparing their spells.
    Those without a decent INT can be involved... they just won't be the mastermind, or as successful a mastermind as one who has a higher INT.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by Avigor View Post
    Those without a decent INT can be involved... they just won't be the mastermind, or as successful a mastermind as one who has a higher INT.
    Yes, but I want to avoid "Wizards win again" and "Oh look, the rogue is being the best nonmagical class again", basically.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by gawwy View Post
    I hear you on the shouldn't be a craft skill. Initially I had envisaged the craft check to be someone making a plan using maps and research and such but that's probably more a profession thing than a craft thing. I did however want it to be int based to encourage mastermind types to take it.

    After thinking about it for a while I stick by making it int. My reasoning is the mental stats map to conspiracy as following

    int: making a plan,
    wis: knowing whether the plan is a good idea,
    cha: convincing others to stick to the plan
    Of the existing skills profession(master mind) makes the most sense (could you sell your services as a mastermind?) but its wis based.

    Im mentally rebelling against just making it the relevant skill check (like bluff ect) for two reasons:

    How would things that don't just replicate skill checks work, example: Burden of Proof.

    I wanted a centralized thing to indicate skillfulness of plotting.
    In that case, I'd recommend just creating a new skill:

    Conspire (Int*)

    Since conspiring is about getting the most out of each member of the conspiracy's resources, it might be worth implementing a special rule for this skill:

    *if another member of the conspiracy has a higher int score than you, use their int mod.

    This rule also gets away from the "wizards and rouges are best" issue that Jorm was unhappy with...
    Quote Originally Posted by gawwy View Post
    -SNIP-I would also like to say that a side goal here was to give PCs incentive to plan out heists and such Ocean 11s style rather than just go with knock down the door and hope the DM provides a path. Is that a noble en-devour and do these feats actually achieve that?
    The answer to both questions depends on group dynamics, but keep in mind that games take place in compressed time and PC Stats do not have to match player ability
    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    -SNIP- Instead I think it should be something which just rewards you for doing something in the time when wizards and such are preparing their spells.
    While the example you gave is a neat feat, it doesn't really seem to fit with a [conspiracy] descriptor, and that doesn't seem to be the definition anyone else is going with...

    might I recommend creating a [preparation] descriptor for the type of feat you were proposing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Yes, but I want to avoid "Wizards win again" and "Oh look, the rogue is being the best nonmagical class again", basically.
    You mean there are nonmagical classes other than rouge? Swordsages don't count - it's called blade magic for a reason.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Inspired by this : http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...6&postcount=14

    I don't know what a conspiracy feat would look like, but maybe you geniuses can blaze the path.
    My grumblings and scribblings turned into some feats.

    Path blazed this way: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...nspiracy-Feats

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    I was thinking something along the lines of

    Right on schedule.

    Requirements: sense motive X ranks

    Call a specific action in secret, at the beginning of the day - it has to be tied to a specific character, and demand a specific action, such as:
    "Loric attacks Bolger" or "Loric begins casting fireball"
    The one exception to the 'specific action' rule is "character X switches sides" which is a valid trigger.

    If the specified action occurs during the day, the first time it does, as long as you could register it with your senses, you are never surprised by it, and can act immediately regardless of your initiative, as if you had rolled high and prepared an action.

    Since detecting the right moment to act depends on other characters' subconscious behavior and subtle body language cues, the ability is wasted if anyone is informed (or correctly guesses out loud) what event you're preparing for.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy] feats. Lets make a few!

    Conspirator [Conspiracy]
    You have sworn yourself to a secret cause, and work with others to bring it to fruition.

    Prerequisites
    Nonlawful alignment.

    Benefits
    When you select this feat, name a secret plot. This plot may be general ("subvert all local governments") or specific ("assassinate the Queen of Cormyr") and may be open-ended, but must be something that is ruined if revealed to the public and is always subject to DM approval. You gain several benefits while pursuing that plot, as described below. It is assumed that these benefits come from working in concert with your fellow conspirators, or by accessing their combined resources.

    Tricks
    You gain a conspiracy bonus on Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Use Magic Device, and Use Rope checks. This conspiracy bonus is equal to the number of [Conspiracy] feats you possess, multiplied by the number of characters within 1 mile who have selected Conspirator for the same secret plot as yourself. This does not allow you to use these skills untrained.

    Traps
    The DC of any poison you use or trap you craft is increased by an amount equal to your conspiracy bonus on skills, as described above.

    Treachery
    If you are captured by foes, you may choose to commit suicide at will as a full-round action (by crushing a false tooth containing an alchemical poison, activating a latent compulsion enchantment on yourself, etc.). You die horribly and painfully with no save when you use this ability, and may be raised or resurrected as normal.

    You retain the benefits of this feat only while actively working towards the plot. If you betray the plot or it is permanently prevented (e.g. by exposing it to the public), you lose the benefits of this feat. If the plot is not open-ended and is successfully completed, you may replace this feat with any other feat for which you qualify.

    Special
    You may select this feat more than once. Each time you select it the benefits apply to a different secret plot.

    Mastermind [Conspiracy]
    You weave a tangled web indeed...

    Prerequisites
    Nonlawful alignment, Conspirator for at least two secret plots, Leadership, Character level 9th.

    Benefits
    All characters that have selected Conspirator for the same secret plot as yourself are considered to have an additional [Conspiracy] feat, regardless of their location. You gain 1d6 gp each day for each such character, but may spend these funds only on furthering the secret plot.

    You may use scrying at will as a spell-like ability on any character that has selected Conspirator for the same secret plot as yourself. While scrying on such a character, you may trigger the Treachery aspect of their Conspirator feat as a full-round action. Characters with the Mastermind feat are immune to these effects.
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-11-20 at 12:43 PM.

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