Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 11 12345678910 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 304
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Gender
    Male

    Default Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    I don’t think I’m understanding the coffeelock build, please help me figure it out?
    Necromancer: "Did you know that most of the dinosaur skeletons in museums are just plaster casts?
    Person: "Did the internet tell you that?"
    Necromancer: "No, just a LOT of disappointing museum trips."

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Scyrner's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Step 1: Get Warlock and Sorc Levels.
    Step 2: Convert Warlock spell slots (that recharge on a short rest) to sorcery points with Sorc metamagic.
    Step 3: Convert Spell points to spell slots with Sorc metamagic.
    Step 4: Take short rest, refresh warlock spell slots, repeat at step 2.


    That's basically it. Your extra spell slots never go away as long as you never take a long rest. If you take a Divine Soul Sorc origin, then you can cast cure wounds on yourself so you never need Hit Dice.

    Edit because I'm bad at typing what I'm thinking. Thanks for pointing it out.
    Last edited by Scyrner; 2017-11-24 at 05:48 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Somewhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Warlock restores pact magic slots on short rest, sorcerer converts pact magic slots to sorcery points and sorcery points to normal spell slots. There's limit on how many sorcery points you can have, but no limit on number of extra spell slots created. Created slots last until the next long rest, but you don't have to ever take a long rest. You take only short rests at every possible opportunity, and generate arbitrary number of spell slots.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    8wGremlin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GMT + 12
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scyrner View Post
    That's basically it. Your extra spell slots never go away as long as you never take a short rest. If you take a Divine Soul Sorc origin, then you can cast cure wounds on yourself so you never need Hit Dice.
    Your extra spell slots never go away as long as you never take a LONG rest.

    The trick has been around since the release of the PHB, but you had to be an elf and use their trance ability to sleep for 4 hours and then have 4 (3 usable) short rests for everyone else long rest.

    but has gotten extra coverage due to the following

    • new invocation that means you don't have to sleep, turning everyone else's long rest into 8 short rests (7 usable ones)
    • divine soul sorcerer allowing for cure light wounds, as you don't get your HD back.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    nickl_2000's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    And then your DM smacks you and turns your character into a weasel with a true polymorph spell for trying to cheat the system.
    Last edited by nickl_2000; 2017-11-24 at 05:50 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    Warlock restores pact magic slots on short rest, sorcerer converts pact magic slots to sorcery points and sorcery points to normal spell slots. There's limit on how many sorcery points you can have, but no limit on number of extra spell slots created. Created slots last until the next long rest, but you don't have to ever take a long rest. You take only short rests at every possible opportunity, and generate arbitrary number of spell slots.
    Also, you skip long rests. The main ways to do this are to get Warlock to 3 and take Pact of the Tome, then Aspect of the Moon as one of your Eldritch Evocations or use a racial ability such as the Elven Trance or The Warforged who never need to sleep, you can avoid the exhaustion penalty for skipping sleep and instead of taking a long (8 hr.) rest, you take several short (1 hr.) rests and use that to continually reset your warlock spell slots so you can keep cashing them in for Sorcerery Points. Basically you want Warlock 3 / Sorcerer 3+ to pull this off.

    Another way to counter exhaustion penalties is to choose the Divine Soul Sorcerer and once you reach lv. 5 spells, take Greater Restoration as one of your Sorcerer spells as one of it's effects is to negate one level of exhaustion.
    Last edited by samcifer; 2017-11-24 at 06:14 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    So how many spell slots do you usually have, walking into an encounter?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samayu View Post
    So how many spell slots do you usually have, walking into an encounter?
    If you have level 2 Sorcerer spell slots and Lv. 2 Warlock spell slots, you could get extra lv. 2 spell slots and based on cashing in 2 lv. 2 spell slots per short rest, then spending 3 sorcery points per lv. 2 spell slot, you'd have an extra 11 lv. 2 slots counting your initial 3 sp from being a lv. 3 sorc and still have two left over for an extra lv. 1 spell slot at character level 6.
    Last edited by samcifer; 2017-11-24 at 06:19 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mephnick's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Just be warned, like all of these niche builds it's very likely a DM will say "....no".

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Isnt this impossible to abuse since you can only have max alloted sorcery points and not any more? So if you only dip 3 lvls into sorc you can only have 3 sorc points at any given time

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Putting it all together:
    1. Take three levels of Warlock, Tome Pact, and pick up Aspect of the Moon: you no longer need to sleep.
    2. Take 2+ levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer: gain Flexible Casting and healing spells.
    3. Whenever your party takes a Long Rest, you take eight Short Rests. The DM cannot force you to take a Long Rest.
    4. At the end of each short rest, use Flexible Casting to convert your recovered Warlock spell slots into Four Sorcery Points, then covert those Sorcery Points into spell slots up to fifth level.
      • Flexible Casting: You can transform unexpended sorcery points into one spell slot as a Bonus Action on Your Turn. The created Spell Slots Vanish at the end of a Long Rest - you never need to take a long rest.

    The build comes online at level 5 by which point it has an arbitrary number of level 1 spell slots. At level 6, you gain second level slots. At level 8, you gain third level slots. And so on.

    Over the course of a single downtime day, you can generate 24 * 4 = 96 Sorcery Points, which you turn into spell slots as you go along.

    One downtime day equals:
    • 48 1st level slots
    • 32 2nd level slots
    • 19 3rd level slots
    • 16 4th level slots
    • 13 5th level slots

    In other words, if you have a week of downtime you can generate more spell slots that you're going to need. Other players track their spell slots with paper; you can use a giant bag of jelly beans.

    Metamagic: you can convert spell slots to spell points as a bonus action on your turn. Use this to apply metamagic to every spell you cast. Starting at 6th level, you can Twin every buff / debuff or Empower every blast without fear of running out of Spell points.

    Short Version: for the cost of being 3 levels behind in spell slot progression and being unable to recover spell slots over 5th level, you have infinite castings of all of your spells. It's like the Wizard capstone Signature Spell plus metamagic applied to your entire spell list.

    In spite of all this, this character doesn't do more with his turn than anyone else does, and he is behind on spells known and spell level. But in return, he can use his abilities whenever he likes with no regard for resource expenditure. This character transcends exactly one aspect of the system: resource management. He's free.
    Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2017

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    And then your DM smacks you and turns your character into a weasel with a true polymorph spell for trying to cheat the system.
    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Just be warned, like all of these niche builds it's very likely a DM will say "....no".
    Absolutely.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblaze View Post
    Isnt this impossible to abuse since you can only have max alloted sorcery points and not any more? So if you only dip 3 lvls into sorc you can only have 3 sorc points at any given time
    No. You have a maximum amount of sorcery points but you do not have a maximum amount of spell slots.

    Every short rest you convert Warlock spell slots -> Sorc points -> Sorc spell slots

    Edit: You will lose some sorc points in the transition if your Warlock level is high, but your spell slots will still grow indefinitely.
    Last edited by Provo; 2017-11-24 at 06:54 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by samcifer View Post
    If you have level 2 Sorcerer spell slots and Lv. 2 Warlock spell slots, you could get extra lv. 2 spell slots and based on cashing in 2 lv. 2 spell slots per short rest, then spending 3 sorcery points per lv. 2 spell slot, you'd have an extra 11 lv. 2 slots counting your initial 3 sp from being a lv. 3 sorc and still have two left over for an extra lv. 1 spell slot at character level 6.
    Huh?

    Okay, let me rephrase it. On the average adventure, when you're walking around and attacking things several times a day, how many spell slots do you have? Like, in your experience, at a given level/level, how many spells do you usually cast per encounter?

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    8wGremlin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GMT + 12
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samayu View Post
    Huh?

    Okay, let me rephrase it. On the average adventure, when you're walking around and attacking things several times a day, how many spell slots do you have? Like, in your experience, at a given level/level, how many spells do you usually cast per encounter?
    Lets say that your 3rd Warlock, 3rd Sorcerer and a Combat lasts no more than 6 turns

    on each turn you can cast a spell, and a bonus action spell (quicken for instance)
    on every encounter, every turn. As you have the spells and the sorcery points to do so.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    I really hope no-one allows this in real games..

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    8wGremlin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GMT + 12
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I really hope no-one allows this in real games..
    Played it in two AL games
    Dm’d It in two as well.

    It is potent. But I’ve seen sorcadins Be more disruptive.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samayu View Post
    Huh?

    Okay, let me rephrase it. On the average adventure, when you're walking around and attacking things several times a day, how many spell slots do you have? Like, in your experience, at a given level/level, how many spells do you usually cast per encounter?
    Well, that covered it pretty well, but I'll go over it in more detail...

    You can add additional spell slots to supplement what you normally have between each long rest. Say you're a lv 6 character with Warlock 3 and sorcerer 3. You'd have 4 lv. 1 spell slots and 2 lv. 2 spell slots as well as 2 lv. 2 warlock spell slots. If you sacrifice the 2 lv. 2 warlock spell slots to convert them to sorcery points (SP), you can spend them to either make 2 more lv. 1 sorcerer spell slots, or one lv. 2 sorcerer spell slot.

    A spell slot gives sp equal to its level, so a lv. 2 warlock spell slot gives 2 sp.

    Purchasing new spell slots is more expensive, as listed on page 101 of the PHB. A level 1 spell slot costs 2sp and a lv. 2 spell slot costs 3sp to create. The slots remain until used or you take a long rest, I believe, since all your spell slots reset to fresh usable ones at the end of a successful long rest.

    So you sacrifice your warlock slots to gain 4 sp (you need to be a sorcerer 4 to avoid losing the 4th sp), then spend the new sp to create spell slots. Then you take a short (1 hr.) rest to replenish your warlock spell slots, and convert them to more sp, spend those to create new slots, take another short rest, etc,. etc.

    The number of slots you can make are determined only bu how many sp you can hold at a time and how many short rests you can take before the dm forces a long rest or tells you to knock oit off or an event begins where you are not given the opportunity to rest.

    That's the best I can explain it. Read pages 100 and 1164 as well as talk this over with your DM to see if he'll allow it. Odds are that he'll ban it or put restrictions on how many short rests you are permitted to take per in-game day.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8wGremlin View Post
    Played it in two AL games
    Dm’d It in two as well.

    It is potent. But I’ve seen sorcadins Be more disruptive.
    can you point me to any sorcadin builds? Curious to study that type of build.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8wGremlin View Post
    Played it in two AL games
    Dm’d It in two as well.

    It is potent. But I’ve seen sorcadins Be more disruptive.
    Right, and this is my point about the build. Does it do more in a single round than other builds? No. In some cases, it does less as it's behind in spell levels. Does this build outdamage other builds? Over time, quite possibly with Empowered lightning bolts. But in a burst round against a single target, it does less damage than a pure Sorcerer or, yes, a Sorcadin.

    What does this build do that no one else does? Cast its best spells all day and never run out of power. But other builds can do more damage, more healing (even out of combat now thanks to healing spirit), cast stronger buffs (higher spell level), cast more powerful control spells, etc.

    It's not nearly as broken as it at first appears. The only thing it breaks is resource management.
    Last edited by Easy_Lee; 2017-11-24 at 09:59 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mephnick's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    The only thing it breaks is resource management.
    Which is the entire game, unless you play some weird facsimile of D&D where resource attrition doesn't matter...which I've found out is very popular. So, Coffeelocks and Healing Spirit for everyone!

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Which is the entire game, unless you play some weird facsimile of D&D where resource attrition doesn't matter...which I've found out is very popular. So, Coffeelocks and Healing Spirit for everyone!
    Resource management isn't even one pillar of the game. It's part of one pillar: combat. And it's already a non-issue for rogues who don't have resources to track besides hit points, anyway.

    You should use blue text when cracking jokes so people don't mistake you as serious.
    Last edited by Easy_Lee; 2017-11-24 at 10:42 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by samcifer View Post
    can you point me to any sorcadin builds? Curious to study that type of build.
    This is by far the most comprehensive guide on sorcadins out there:

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...rer-Multiclass

    FWIW I could see most DMs allowing you to gain spell slots up to your normal maximum, but not beyond that. With Aspect of the Moon opening this up to more races, I bet an errata will show up at some point...

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    Resource management isn't even one pillar of the game. It's part of one pillar: combat. And it's already a non-issue for rogues who don't have resources to track besides hit points, anyway.

    You should use blue text when cracking jokes so people don't mistake you as serious.
    Resource management is a part of all three pillars. Unless you're doing some silly, forum combat-only build.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    FabulousFizban's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Just be warned, like all of these niche builds it's very likely a DM will say "....no".
    i wouldn't say no, but i woul attack the party during every short rest >:]
    May I borrow some bat guano? It's for a spell...

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by CantigThimble View Post
    Resource management is a part of all three pillars. Unless you're doing some silly, forum combat-only build.
    Oh? Can't wait to hear about the time you ran out of spell slots during a social encounter, or on one of those random encounters while traveling that so many DMs are fond of.
    Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Banned
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    The DM cannot force you to take a Long Rest.
    Lol.

    The DM can have elephants rain from the sky if he wants.

    I don't see anything in the rules that forces the DM to allow Pcs to take consecutive short rests.

    IMG if you take 8 x 1 hour brakes in a row = a long rest.

    I mean yeah in theory, if your DM is hands off with policing the adventuring day and resource usage, and is fine with this kind of exploitng the rest mechanic, go nuts.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    Lol.

    The DM can have elephants rain from the sky if he wants.

    I don't see anything in the rules that forces the DM to allow Pcs to take consecutive short rests.

    IMG if you take 8 x 1 hour brakes in a row = a long rest.

    I mean yeah in theory, if your DM is hands off with policing the adventuring day and resource usage, and is fine with this kind of exploitng the rest mechanic, go nuts.
    Let me rephrase that, then. The DM cannot force the player to take any action, whatsoever, at any time, ever. Any DM who tries to break that will quickly find himself without players. You don't do that. It's part of the social contract of D&D.

    And before you say "yeah, but players aren't supposed to break the game," this build doesn't actually break the game. Nor should you presume that someone who chooses to do this has malicious intent or is somehow having the wrong kind of fun. Nor should you presume that your ideas about the game or manner of play are superior to someone else's.
    Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Nov 2016

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    I know it is never explicitly stated in the rules, but I have never seen a DM allow a player to take more than 3 short rests in a day. and when I discussed it with the other players in my groups we all agreed that our understanding of RAI is that forced march resets on a long rest. It may not be purely RAW, but coffee-lock would be a non-starter at any of the tables I've played at. Unless you can afford the 100 gp worth of diamond dust and level 5 spell slot each hour you traveled to stave off exhaustion.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2017

    Default Re: Can someone please explain the ‘coffeelock’ to me?

    Well, crud.
    You all just put the idea in my head of making my Xerath Warforged Sorcerer a coffeelock, to emulate his supposed mastery of magic.

    I doubt it would break the game by itself, anyway. And I'd be discussing the idea with the DM before putting it into action, anyway. I feel the game just works best if the players aren't trying to pull a fast one on the DM. Or vice versa.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •