Running Around (like chickens with their heads cut off)

[Deepbluediver]

Quick, easy topic today- what do people think about base movement speed, specifically regarding running in combat (instead of say, flying).

The standard core races mostly all move at 30 feet per Move action, with a few slower races at only 20 feet. I had homebrewed some races with a 40 foot movement so I could have slower and faster species. However that puts the difference between slowest and fastest at double, and when you start adding in things like Fast Movement you can fairly easily have one race running at several times the speed of another. And I don't want to stop there- I've been considering other non-spell ways to boost speed, like with the Mobility feat.

Using 10-foot increments though makes it kinda hard to fine-tune in the way I want, so I'm considering changing base movement speed and some of the other stuff to work in 5-ft increments instead. For example, rather than 20, 30, and 40 feet, my races might move at 20, 25, and 30 ft. Or 25, 30, and 35 feet. And I don't need to leave it at just 3 categories either, I could use 25, 30, 35, and 40 ft. so I've got lots of variety to play with.

I'm curious what other people's response to something like this might be- especially if I throw in other things that help boost movement speed as well, so you can take a lot of little boosts and make a sort-of "The Flash" style build if you want.


Potential ways to boost speed:
Fast Movement (class ability)
Mobility (feat)
Expeditious Retreat (spell)
Dash (feat)
[what else can you suggest?]



Update: I eventually settled on the 25/30/35 variation as a way to do movement; I'm confident that I can handle movement in 5-foot increments instead of 10. It's no the kind of thing I expect to come up all the time, but neither do most racial characteristics. But when it DOES come up, I'm pretty sure people will take note of it.

[nonsi]

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One thing that D&D doesn't cover is speed differences within a given race (it should have to do with more than just Dash and Run feats).

[rferries]

I've always felt that the Run feat should give a +10 foot movement increase (possibly scaling, like a monk).

[Deepbluediver]

One thing that D&D doesn't cover is speed differences within a given race (it should have to do with more than just Dash and Run feats).

My understanding of the biomechanics of motion is that speed, particularly acceleration over a short distance, is mostly a factor of your body's power-to-weight ratio. Runners tend to be slender because having a big, muscly torso and arms doesn't help you run faster; I don't know if there's a diminishing point of return for leg-muscles though, where more mass just gets in the way of you moving more quickly (i.e. a rhino vs an ostrich). For example, if you were trying to decide if the Powerful Build feat should affect your speed and how.

I'm not sure all that's necessary to go into in the game though- combat already has a certain level of abstraction and I feel that with more options for increasing speed, you could get most of the variety you wanted.
I didn't know about the Dash feat, so thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I've always felt that the Run feat should give a +10 foot movement increase (possibly scaling, like a monk).

There are a lot of sub-par feats. I had thought to attach a movement speed boost to Mobility, and nonsi just told me about the Dash feat which DOES increase your base speed. Right now I'm leaning towards just combining them all into one better feat in some way, and eliminating the chaff, as well as the restrictions.

[Westhart]

One thing to note os that increased movement speed gives a bonus on jump checks... if it matters much. Also, if you rework it I would make things like pounce and spring attack part of the rules instead of requiring dips etc.

[Deepbluediver]

One thing to note os that increased movement speed gives a bonus on jump checks... if it matters much.

I hadn't considered it, but its good to keep stuff like that in mind, even if it seems inocuous. I get the impression that many of 3.5's issues come from designers not fully considering the ramifications of their work.

Also, if you rework it I would make things like pounce and spring attack part of the rules instead of requiring dips etc.

Making Spring Attack and Pounce something like combat maneuvers? That's an idea to consider.
I sort of feel like Spring Attack messes with the action economy, by allowing you to take a standard attack in between move actions, in such a way that it might deserve a feat, but Pounce has possibilities.

[Westhart]

Making Spring Attack and Pounce something like combat maneuvers? That's an idea to consider.
I sort of feel like Spring Attack messes with the action economy, by allowing you to take a standard attack in between move actions, in such a way that it might deserve a feat, but Pounce has possibilities.

Eh, it lets you take an attack while moving, it doesn't give you an extra move or anything. Thus the change is not too big, and buffs melee types a tad more then casters.

[Deepbluediver]

Eh, it lets you take an attack while moving, it doesn't give you an extra move or anything. Thus the change is not too big, and buffs melee types a tad more then casters.

Yeah as soon as I wrote that I started thinking maybe it should be the other way around. I've considered various ways of modifying the combat system, and revising the various combat maneuvers so they are easier or more effective to use. It's definitely something I'll keep in mind moving forward though.

[Goaty14]

The problem with a high move speed is that it doesn't do much. Aside from travelling (which is still hindered by the party's slowest character, good luck), I don't see any need for a high move speed, much less a need to optimize it and still do other things.

[noob]

With a enough high move speed and ranged attacks(for example a bow or spells) you can entirely prevent melee fighters from hitting you.
It also helps retreating.(but if you use the pursue rules and go at 30 feet per round you can still somehow be caught by a creature moving at 0 feet per round so do not use the pursuing rules too much)

[Deepbluediver]

The problem with a high move speed is that it doesn't do much. Aside from travelling (which is still hindered by the party's slowest character, good luck), I don't see any need for a high move speed, much less a need to optimize it and still do other things.

Doesn't do much compared to what? Ideally I'd have a more balanced system than 3.5, so that magic wasn't quite so dominant, and combat-tricks like that counted for more. You're right though- it's not a huge deal overall, which is why I want to make it easier to acquire a small buff or two if you picked a low-speed race and need to make up the difference.

Plus if you're traveling, it might be a good opportunity for the party to figure out some alternate method than just walking everywhere.

With a enough high move speed and ranged attacks(for example a bow or spells) you can entirely prevent melee fighters from hitting you.
It also helps retreating.(but if you use the pursue rules and go at 30 feet per round you can still somehow be caught by a creature moving at 0 feet per round so do not use the pursuing rules too much)

I'm not familiar with the pursuing rules, but I know that some high-level creatures can move quite quickly, particularly when flying is involved.

[noob]

Doesn't do much compared to what? Ideally I'd have a more balanced system than 3.5, so that magic wasn't quite so dominant, and combat-tricks like that counted for more. You're right though- it's not a huge deal overall, which is why I want to make it easier to acquire a small buff or two if you picked a low race and need to make up the difference.

Plus if you're traveling, it might be a good opportunity for the party to figure out some alternate method than just walking everywhere.


I'm not familiar with the pursuing rules, but I know that some high-level creatures can move quite quickly, particularly when flying is involved.

Well in pathfinder there is a set of optional rules for pursuing.(you can just use the regular rules for pursuing instead)
speeds gives a flat boost to the pursuing modifier but size does too.
And having a 0 foot speed does not prevents you from pursuing something and catching up to it which is ironically quite common.
For example a living castle that have a 0 foot speed it will probably catch up an human moving with a 30 feet base speed.
But yes those optional pursuing rules are badly done.