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  1. - Top - End - #301
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    Given your slightly sub-par con, I'd be inclined to put extra resources into defense, maybe with defense style, certainly sticking to a shield. Conquest leans tanky/controlly, and in general prefer to use their resources for effects that enhance that rather than damage, and imo more AC complements that better. Though as a warforged your AC is already going to be very solid. That said, the better your AC, the better more AC tends to be.

    But if you want a glaive aesthetically, that's certainly viable. It's not at all a 'bad choice'. It's fun to beat on an immobilized melee target from just outside their reach, and while a sword & board conqueror can do that with a whip, the damage sacrifice there is enough to really start gettting noticeable (though if you stick with dueling a whip can get pretty fierce) If you do go that way, I would /even more/ suggest the defense style, though, since you're already giving up a shield, especially if your GM goes by the ruling that the two handed style doesn't apply to smite dice.
    My current AC is 20 with the shield as I am running with heavy armor plating, it is rare I actually get hit so far but I do draw a lot of attention normally at the front. I probably will just stick with my long sword and shield, just have to sort out what flavor I want to add in when it comes to feats. Not sure how long this campaign will go for as we are coming the end of our first story arc. I might try and find a pole arm or a great sword to have as a back set, also in case we run into fear immune monsters.

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I'm starting a new level 5 character after a TPK and would love to get some advise from some experienced conquest paladin players. I'll be playing a sword and board envoy warforged conquest paladin.

    Our DM gave us an uncommon magic item of our choice (with some items veto'd) and I chose gauntlets of ogre power.
    My stats at level 5 would be:
    13 (19 /w gauntlets), 14,14,8,11,18

    The 14 dex is because I have a very stealthy party and didn't want to be the odd one out. I won't be proficient in stealth but at least I'll have a bit of a bonus and I won't be doing it at at disadvantage. The plan will be to adventure in Composite Plating (medium armor) and switch into the heavy armor for the extra 1 AC only if I know that the next day is going to see some serious action and no sneaking.
    The 13 strength is so that I can decide down the road if I want to multiclass into hexblade and so that I can have that as a fall back plan to stay relevant if the Gauntlets ever get irretrievably lost/stolen in game.

    On to the question! The DM has recently decided that they are also letting us purchase a single additional uncommon magic item with our starting gold if we have enough gold left over. Not needing to purchase armour... I do!

    I'm trying to decide between shield of the sentinel and pipes of haunting. With pipes of haunting, is having access to more fear desirable or is it just overkill? I'd imagine that its not particularly useful until I get to level 7 and I'm wondering if it will become obsolete once I hit level 9 and can cast fear, or in general as I level up and the pipes spell save DC of 15 starts to lag behind. Shield of the sentinel seems pretty darn great and I'm having trouble evaluating the pipes without having played a conquest paladin before. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by meatpop View Post
    I'm trying to decide between shield of the sentinel and pipes of haunting. With pipes of haunting, is having access to more fear desirable or is it just overkill? I'd imagine that its not particularly useful until I get to level 7 and I'm wondering if it will become obsolete once I hit level 9 and can cast fear, or in general as I level up and the pipes spell save DC of 15 starts to lag behind. Shield of the sentinel seems pretty darn great and I'm having trouble evaluating the pipes without having played a conquest paladin before. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!
    As a Conquest Paladin you want ALL the ways to strike fear in your enemy's feeble heart. So that would be your first choice. BUT the DMG description says you must be proficient with wind instruments to use them so you better check with your DM.

    Otherwise the Sentinel Shield is will serve you well your whole career.

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    TL;DR

    Additionally, the damage from Aura of Conquest is based on your paladin level, so it will be weaker.
    What Damage is associated with Aura of Conquest that scales???
    "The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience."
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  5. - Top - End - #305
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgerunner View Post
    TL;DR



    What Damage is associated with Aura of Conquest that scales???
    As long as a frightened enemy is within reach of your Aura of Conquest, they take psychic damage equal to half your paladin class level at the end of their turn.
    Last edited by Iron Frog; 2018-12-18 at 08:50 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #306
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Frog View Post
    at the end of their turn.
    Just checked, it's actually "if it starts it's turn there."

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    How would you roleplay this with a less menacing undertone? Your working with a party right, so a im the strongest everyone follow me attitude might not go down well, let alone a world domination vibe you are giving off?

  8. - Top - End - #308
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleG View Post
    How would you roleplay this with a less menacing undertone? Your working with a party right, so a im the strongest everyone follow me attitude might not go down well, let alone a world domination vibe you are giving off?
    You could play Oath of Conquest as a Judge Dredd type. Yes, I'm aware of the Oath of the Crown, but I think SCAG is a heap of crap, so I just ignore everything in it these days.

  9. - Top - End - #309
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    So I’m playing a V. Human Conquest build and I’m wondering what I should do exactly.

    I’m going sword and board and I’m wondering what feat I should grab, and how I should build myself later on. I’m considering going Paladin/Bard, and with the team I have, is this a good choice?

    My teammates include: Eldritch Knight Fighter, Ancestral Guardian Barbarian, Hunter Ranger, and Storm Sorcerer.

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I have found a book "All Patrons Eve" which contains new pact for warlock and pact with the Reaper imho synergises pretty well with Conqust pally. I would like to know your opinion about it Legimus, about pros and cons in your opinion.
    At the moment in my game I play Half-Elf Conquest Pally 2/Hexblade 1, But after seeing book which I mentioned, I started thinking about switching my "Power giver" .
    If we are lucky we probably will eventually get to level 20, so in the end I am planning to have Conq 13/Warlock 7, which would give me 4th level spells from both Warlock and Paladin, 2 short rest recharge spell slots/, 4 invocations, full amount of 1,2,3 level paladin spells.
    Stats are at the moment
    15
    10
    14
    10
    10
    17
    on level 5(paladin level 4) plan to take elven accuracy.
    We play by PHB+1 book. Mine are PhB and Xanatar, but this All Patrons Eve, master said he would allow to be "added" to usable amount because of small size of that book.
    P.s. Huge thank you for the guide. It was actually the reason why I decided to play Paladin. It is my first pally (well second techically, since first one was at one forum and played it for a very short time , and that one was 3,5 Pelor Pally, so I don't really count him) which I play in real life

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    From what I have read, the Conquest Paladin is notoriously ASI hungry, with your first three almost mandatory as 2 ASIs to get Charisma maxed and a feat of either Warcaster or Resilient (Con). With that in mind, I’m curious how Find Steed works out for those of us that can’t get the Mounted Combatant feat.

  12. - Top - End - #312
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    Edgerunner's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Is there a Simple list of Conquest Pali Spells that Can Not be cast if you do not have the Warcaster Feat but took Resilient CON instead?
    Figure Sword and Board with Holy Symbol on it.
    Last edited by Edgerunner; 2019-01-05 at 02:37 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #313
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgerunner View Post
    Is there a Simple list of Conquest Pali Spells that Can Not be cast if you do not have the Warcaster Feat but took Resilient CON instead?
    Figure Sword and Board with Holy Symbol on it.
    https://en.dnd5.spells.rpgist.net/spells

    Apply the proper filters (class, specialization, components) and voilá.
    "Bend your knee! While you still have a knee to bend!

  14. - Top - End - #314
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgerunner View Post
    Is there a Simple list of Conquest Pali Spells that Can Not be cast if you do not have the Warcaster Feat but took Resilient CON instead?
    Figure Sword and Board with Holy Symbol on it.
    I believe every Paladin spell can be cast as sword and board. Anything without a material component just means you sheath your weapon as your free object interaction that round. Draw your weapon again next round if you need to use it. The only complication to that is for bonus action spells. In that case, you needed to sheath your weapon at the end of the previous turn in order to cast the spell and then draw your weapon and attack. This is pretty much only ever an issue with Divine Favor and Holy Weapon when you want to get the bonus added to this rounds attacks.

  15. - Top - End - #315
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    A DEX-based fighter is something I have been considering, but maybe a paladin would be better? What would you say is better for a DEX-based swordsman who dosent want to be squishy/frail?

  16. - Top - End - #316
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Savoc View Post
    A DEX-based fighter is something I have been considering, but maybe a paladin would be better? What would you say is better for a DEX-based swordsman who dosent want to be squishy/frail?
    It depends what you want to go for. Fighters don’t have magic. Paladins do. Fighters get more attacks through action surge and extra attack 3 and 4. Paladins get Improved Divine Smite as their damage boost plus smite potential. Fighter archetypes define how they fight. Paladin archetypes define how they live. They both have a d10 HD and the same armor proficiencies, they’ll be equivalently sturdy. Pick whichever appeals more.

  17. - Top - End - #317
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildarm View Post
    I believe every Paladin spell can be cast as sword and board. Anything without a material component just means you sheath your weapon as your free object interaction that round. Draw your weapon again next round if you need to use it. The only complication to that is for bonus action spells. In that case, you needed to sheath your weapon at the end of the previous turn in order to cast the spell and then draw your weapon and attack. This is pretty much only ever an issue with Divine Favor and Holy Weapon when you want to get the bonus added to this rounds attacks.
    Cure wounds and detect magic cannot (notwithstanding stowing your sword and drawing it later) probably many others too...
    Last edited by Spiritchaser; 2019-01-14 at 04:12 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #318
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    Cure wounds and detect magic cannot (notwithstanding stowing your sword and drawing it later) probably many others too...
    Yeah the poster you are replying to specifies that you will have to sheathe your weapon as your free interaction and draw it again for free next turn. The biggest issue with that is losing a solid chunk off your opportunity attacks, but that’s not too huge a cost I don’t think.

  19. - Top - End - #319
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Perlywhirly View Post
    From what I have read, the Conquest Paladin is notoriously ASI hungry, with your first three almost mandatory as 2 ASIs to get Charisma maxed and a feat of either Warcaster or Resilient (Con). With that in mind, I’m curious how Find Steed works out for those of us that can’t get the Mounted Combatant feat.
    It works great just as long as you assume your steed is going to get killed out from under you and have a plan for that.

    A warhorse only has 19 HP and is really squishy. So you need to toughen it up with barding for AC and spells like Aid and Armor of Agathys (which you can cast on both of you) to give it more HP. Even then a good fireball can take it out.

    But if you buff up your steed and use a lance for a d12 with 10' reach, it can be very effective in battles where you have room to maneuver.

    I've also had some success with casting AoA on both of us then dismounting and telling Corky to attack.

  20. - Top - End - #320
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by McSkrag View Post
    It works great just as long as you assume your steed is going to get killed out from under you and have a plan for that.

    A warhorse only has 19 HP and is really squishy. So you need to toughen it up with barding for AC and spells like Aid and Armor of Agathys (which you can cast on both of you) to give it more HP. Even then a good fireball can take it out.

    But if you buff up your steed and use a lance for a d12 with 10' reach, it can be very effective in battles where you have room to maneuver.

    I've also had some success with casting AoA on both of us then dismounting and telling Corky to attack.
    You named your horse Corky?.... nevermind.

    Yeah I was just asking because it is rated blue, but it looks a lot like it’s a Paladin delivery service and then has to die or run without additional investment. But since it effectively doesn’t cost a spell slot, that’s probably good enough!

  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Perlywhirly View Post
    You named your horse Corky?.... nevermind.
    Yes. And with a 6 INT he's almost as smart as me.

  22. - Top - End - #322
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Perlywhirly View Post
    You named your horse Corky?.... nevermind.

    Yeah I was just asking because it is rated blue, but it looks a lot like it’s a Paladin delivery service and then has to die or run without additional investment. But since it effectively doesn’t cost a spell slot, that’s probably good enough!
    A mostly free loyal companion is always good. Even if it just does a bit of damage or soaks a hit or two, that's great. I wish there was a medium sized form with equivalent stats to a warhorse. The mastiff dies if you sneeze on it even in Tier 1. Always thought a rust monster would be neat to get with the spell or a Blink Dog.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2019-01-21 at 09:40 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #323
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    On multiclassing and Conquest Paladins. Conquest Paladins are so inherently synergistic that I can’t understand how people can justify multiclassing beyond one level dips (looking at you, Hexblade). I feel like a lot of Paladin multiclasses come from the goodies from other oaths not mattering past level 6, rarely 7 (Ancients). Conquest keeps pulling you along level by level. Conquest desperately wants to hit level 9 to get their third level spells, since Fear is such an important tool for this particular playstyle. Once you have Fear, the 10th level aura making Fear significantly friendlier is extremely appealing. Once you hit 10th level, Improved Divine Smite at 11 is a fantastic damage amplifier. Level 12 is another all important ASI, and then 4th level spells (Find Greater Steed anyone?) at 13. I can’t imagine jumping out for anything more than one level before level 13, as the Cleanse at 14 is nice but situational and the retribution damage at 15 is probably good but doesn’t FEEL very impactful to me. 16 and up is where things get interesting, with ASIs, 5th level spells, and the all important aura increase TRIPLING in size, and the capstone. Once you are 13 levels deep into Paladin though, you have to put some serious weight on these endgame features in a different way from when you were level 2 considering what you can jump out and grab. Maybe I’m undervaluing levels 14 and 15 and those are just great abilities, making the pull even more irresistable.

    Multiclassing Conquest Paladin just feels like a trap since the best jumping off point seems to be level 11 if you can stomach delaying your ASI in such an ASI hungry class, but that still caps you at level 5 spells just like you’d have if you stuck it out with Paladin, just delayed further. Just something I was musing while looking at the sample multiclass builds in the guide. What do you folks think?

  24. - Top - End - #324
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    I think that depends entirely on the playstyle you want. If you want a typical sorcadin playstyle with the conquest aura being an added bonus, it is still perfectly feasible to go 2 pally - 5 sorc - 7 or 8 pally - rest sorc. Having the aura and the fear spell comes online at character level 12 instead of 9, but you're basically just playing a regular sorcadin before that and a regular sorcadin with the aura after.

  25. - Top - End - #325
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Basically yeah. If you want to make frighten-based lockdown tanking your primary character focus, then yeah, multiclassing beyond maybe a level dip of hexblade is super hard to justify, as basically every level makes you better at the main thing you do in a way that almost no levels in any other class actually do, apart from arguably hexblade 1. And warlock 5, I guess, but the three levels between 1 and 5 aren't really doing anything much for you in terms of conquering specifically, so it's hard to justify that long a foray even if the conqueror would yes very much like to have two uses of Fear on short rest timers.

    But while it's hard for a conqueror to multiclass other classes, there are plenty of characters who are mostly other classes that can still get a lot of secondary use out of Aura of Conquest, and for those characters 7 to 8 levels of paladin and 12 to 13 levels of whatever else can make a lot of sense.

    Even without Aura of Conquest, conqueror has above average channel divinities and oath spells, so even a character that only takes paladin for 3 to 6 levels might reasonably consider oath of conquest, despite the fact that those characters will never pick up the subclass's defining feature. EG, dragon or shadow origin sorcadins might appreciate access to spiritual weapon, especially early on. And assorted hexblade/bard/sorcerer mixes that that dip only 3 levels into paladin for heavy armor, channel divinity, and a few extra spell slots might still prefer the versatility of conquering presence's aoe debuff over the attack & damage buff CDs of vengeance or devotion that compete for utility with spells like Hex and abilities like hexblade's curse.

  26. - Top - End - #326
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    Basically yeah. If you want to make frighten-based lockdown tanking your primary character focus, then yeah, multiclassing beyond maybe a level dip of hexblade is super hard to justify, as basically every level makes you better at the main thing you do in a way that almost no levels in any other class actually do, apart from arguably hexblade 1

    ~SNIP~

    I was definitely approaching it from the perspective of being a fear-based lockdown tank, as that's the unique niche of the Conquest Paladin. You definitely raise a good point in an "all toads are frogs but not all frogs are toads" way. There are definitely others interested in what the oath of conquest has to offer that are not primarily invested in that exact playstyle. I didn't even think to look at it that way. I dig it. Thanks for the perspective shift!

  27. - Top - End - #327
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    Basically yeah. If you want to make frighten-based lockdown tanking your primary character focus, then yeah, multiclassing beyond maybe a level dip of hexblade is super hard to justify, as basically every level makes you better at the main thing you do in a way that almost no levels in any other class actually do, apart from arguably hexblade 1.
    I'll start by saying that I could very well be missing something. But I don't see how what you are saying (if I understand correctly) holds. After level 10, the only thing we can expect in term of lockdown potential, is the aura improvements which comes at paladin level 18. Which is a big deal if you expect to get a lot out of conquering presence, because unlike fear it does not handle frightened enemies outside your aura of conquest in a reliable way, so increasing the radius of the aura of conquest to match that of conquering presence certainly helps a ton. But outside the aura improvements, I don't see anything else that will tremendously up our lockdown potential. I am not saying that we don't get useful stuff, we certainly do. But not in term of lockdown. Which is probably a good thing, as at higher levels it will help a lot being able to diversify our tactics and not put everything in the fear basket, and going for the high paladin levels is perhaps the best way to achieve this.
    Last edited by Corran; 2019-01-24 at 07:57 PM.
    Hacks!

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    Nice. So we've got:
    • Thunderous Smite (single-target str save), L1 Paladin spell
    • Earth Tremor (10' aoe dex save), L1 Sorcerer/Bard spell
    • Destructive wave (30' aoe con save), L5 Paladin spell
    • And then of course prone via the Shove attack action (single-target str/dex check) --which is especially nice if you've got Hex (from Warlock dip) and/or Expertise in Athletics (from Bard dip or the Prodigy feat).
    I'd also like to add that a mount (such as a Warhorse) can knock prone. When you summon a Warhorse with Find Steed, it becomes "unusually intelligent". This means the warhorse can attack on its turn and can knock someone prone using its Trampling Charge feature. You can then stab the enemy with your lance and keep them frozen with fear, prone on the ground.

  29. - Top - End - #329
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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    we certainly do. But not in term of lockdown.
    Improved divine smite usnt directly related to the play style, but its still important to prop up your melee damage to help ensure that "within 10' of you" is someplace the enemy doesn't actually want to be. Especially important since we're casting spells and thus aren't using the paladin's main damage boosting feature as much.

    4th level paladin spells is super relevant to the play style, because it gives you a flying mount to take the aura into the air. Risky of course due to the vulnerability of the mount, but still an important tool to have access to.

    Cleansing touch lets you shrug off any negative spell effects that don't negate actions altogether, and this is relevant to the playstyle because that's one of the few good options for attacking/crippling you left to enemies trapped in the aura.

    The level 15 reprisal damage is relevant because melee enemies trapped in the aura will often have no options other than attacking you with disadvantage, and now even when they get a lucky hit they're still punished with chip damage.

    5th level paladin spells are relevant because destructive wave.

    And of course all ASI's are super important in this MAD, feat-starved build, and while other classes grant those, multiclassing usually means delaying them at best.


    Granted none of those features are /as/ relevant as weapon/armor/skill proficiencies, Wrathful Smite, Conquering Presance, second attack, Aura of Conquest, Fear, and Aura of Courage from levels 1-10, but the paladin progression from 11 to aura expansion at 18 still contains far more relevant features to the play style than you'll find in 10 levels of nearly any other class you might multi into.

    Again, not that multiclassing isn't viable. You've got the most important features of conquest by level 9 or 10, arguably by level 7 if you can get Fear somewhere else, and multiclassing can definitely add some well appreciated variety and versatility. But even after level 10 & before level 18, I still think paladin levels fo the most for the conquest play style specifically.
    Last edited by Sception; 2019-01-28 at 07:39 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #330
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

    To OP: thank you! I hadn't really allowed Conquest much mind space, but your guide has made it zoom up my builds to play list where it is now comfortably in my top-5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    Improved divine smite usnt directly related to the play style, but its still important to prop up your melee damage to help ensure that "within 10' of you" is someplace the enemy doesn't actually want to be. Especially important since we're casting spells and thus aren't using the paladin's main damage boosting feature as much.

    4th level paladin spells is super relevant to the play style, because it gives you a flying mount to take the aura into the air. Risky of course due to the vulnerability of the mount, but still an important tool to have access to.
    Bard, Sorcerer and Warlock multiclassing can all give you this in a variety of ways. The flying part is slightly harder, but all three have access to Fly + one other way of gaining flight (magical secrets, growing wings and familiar carrying you).

    It might take a whiff of creativity, but you can definitely be an Avatar of Terror combining a lot of these and more (frequent) spell slots to boot. If you don't think you'll reach level 18, or want more:
    - utility (invocations/bard expertise+skills)
    - spell slots
    - success with shield bash

    They might be worth it. Starting as a Sorcerer also nets you con saves, potentially saving you a feat. The bard combo is very much worth a think as well and is relatively stronger for Conquest than for the other subclasses due to the extra value gotten from Expertise and Jack of All Trades. Almost all of the bard subclasses have something to offer (steer away from Valor though).
    Last edited by Skylivedk; 2019-01-28 at 08:44 AM. Reason: Missed a point

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