The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

[Rhunah]

How tied to Dragonborn Race are you? You could take V-Human to get Menacing as your 1st level feat. You'll end up with Cha 18/Str 15 at level 4 and can reach 20 CHA at level 8 instead. You can MC into Hexblade at level 10 instead as Malisteen suggested. Dragonborn racial abilities are not very good to be honest. Their breath weapon needs to scale better or use a bonus action.

The Char is played since Lvl 1, so i cant change it.
I like the Dragonborn Race for Style in the Hoard of the Dragonqueen ;-)

[Sception]

there ate stronger conqueror races, sure. I'd put vuman & fallen aasimar at the top, with scourge aasimar, half elf, warforged envoy right behind. Maybe one or two of the tiefling variants.

Dragonborn is right under that. Pretty much only the stat mods help, but they're a good fit and that's enough to be good to make them a fine choice if you specifically want to play one for fluff reasons.

Shame they're +2 str/+1 cha instead of the other way around, if they were dragon fear might be almost a quarter of the way decent. As it is, skip it.


were I running a db conqueror and aiming for optimization, it would look like:

no dip
starting s16, d10, c15, i8, w8, h16
4 +2 str
8 +2 cha
12 +2 cha
16 resilient con
19 +2 str or sentinel

Twelve is to long to wait for an attack stat boost, and if you're bumping srength before maxing cha you might as well do it at level 4, since cha doesnt become critical until level 7 anyway.

Dip (preferred)
starting s16, d10, c14, i8, w10, h16
4 +2 cha
8 +2 cha
9 or 10 hex 1
13 warcaster
14 maybe hex 2
17 (18 if hex 2 at 14) sentinel
20 maybe hex2, maybe nothing if you already took hex 2, maybe +2 con, inspiring leader, ot resiliant con if only tsking hex 1. Options pretty open at the end here, but be honest, your campaign isnt going to 20 anyway.


I would not take menacing at all on a dragonborn conqueror unless you're rolling stats and end up eith an odd cha score after putting your highest score there and applying the racial +1, in which case it replaces the first +2 cha.

Same for dragonfear, only take it if menacing isnt allowed AND you have an odd cha score after maxing it out at character creation, which for dragonborn should only happen in stat rolled games, and even then not all the time.

[Rhunah]

Dip (preferred)
starting s16, d10, c14, i8, w10, h16
4 +2 cha
8 +2 cha
9 or 10 hex 1
13 warcaster
14 maybe hex 2
17 (18 if hex 2 at 14) sentinel
20 maybe hex2, maybe nothing if you already took hex 2, maybe +2 con, inspiring leader, ot resiliant con if only tsking hex 1. Options pretty open at the end here, but be honest, your campaign isnt going to 20 anyway.

I like this Way, sounds good to me.

Thank you all for your work and help

[Fach]

Has there been any discussion on the Kalashtar from Races of Eberron? +1 WIS, +1 CHA, +1 Another of your choice (can be CHA), and if you choose Intimidation for psychic glamour you have advantage on all intimidate checks, which pairs well with the Menacing Feat

[Wildarm]

Has there been any discussion on the Kalashtar from Races of Eberron? +1 WIS, +1 CHA, +1 Another of your choice (can be CHA), and if you choose Intimidation for psychic glamour you have advantage on all intimidate checks, which pairs well with the Menacing Feat

Kalashtar works perfectly fine with a Conquest Paladin. And yes, menacing becomes very good. Expertise + Advantage means you can inflict frightened quite easily. Only works on humanoids but otherwise, with your aura it is very strong at locking down a single foe. Very efficient since you can start with 17 CHA as well.

[Edgerunner]

A question of Smart use of Spell Slots.

How many rounds does a encounter need to go on before it is smarter to use a 2nd lvl Spiritual Weapon over a 2nd lvl Divine Smite?

Call it an average of +4 Chr mod, is it just 2+ rounds and Spiritual Weapon is smarter to use mathematically (assuming you Hit with it)?

[Wildarm]

A question of Smart use of Spell Slots.

How many rounds does a encounter need to go on before it is smarter to use a 2nd lvl Spiritual Weapon over a 2nd lvl Divine Smite?

Call it an average of +4 Chr mod, is it just 2+ rounds and Spiritual Weapon is smarter to use mathematically (assuming you Hit with it)?

VS low value or low AC target - Use Spiritual Weapon
VS a high value or high AC target - Use the slot to smite

Even then, only do so when you are out of 1st level slots. Conquest Paladin has great spells to use with their level 2 slots.

[Sception]

VS low value or low AC target - Use Spiritual Weapon
VS a high value or high AC target - Use the slot to smite

Even then, only do so when you are out of 1st level slots. Conquest Paladin has great spells to use with their level 2 slots.

Paladin has great spells to use with their level 1 slots also. In fact, I'd argue Bless and Wrathful Smite are both good enough to potentially eclipse second level spell slots entirely. EG, vs a high AC target, is that second level smite really going to do more for you than giving the whole party +d4 to hit via bless? if that +2.5 average turns even a few misses into hits then it's outperformed both smite and spiritual weapon, and that's without even considering the bonus to saving throws.

And if your party doesn't need the extra help to hit that high value target, then a wrathful smite to lock them down is going to be the greatest contribution you could offer to your party. Sure, once locked down you might add on a smite or spiritual weapon in later rounds, but that's sort of a 'win more' situation, as largely negating the strongest target in an encounter is usually tantamount to winning the encounter, so maybe that slot would be better saved to cast extra wrathful smites later in case the day runs long?

And if the target is low value, why are you burning spell slots to begin with?


I still think both smite and spiritual weapon are valuable tools to have in your arsenal, but personally I mostly find myself breaking them out in two circumstances: 1) the character hasn't yet picked up oath of conquest - and there's only two levels separating second level slots from aura of conquest so that's not a long time to be worried about, or 2) the toughest enemies in the fight have high wisdom saves or are outright immune to frighten.

In those situations, of the two, I generally prefer spiritual weapon if bless isn't needed or if another caster is providing it or if there's time before the fight to pre-cast buffs. Not always better damage output, but it's a bit more versatile & less likely to overkill, as if you drop an enemy with your normal attacks you can slide the weapon over to another target. If you are casting bless in the first round, then you lose a round of combat uptime on spiritual weapon, and since most fights don't last that many rounds anyway losing even one round eats into its relative strength pretty noticeably.

[Anthalon]

As others have pointed out, Spiritual Weapon isn't nearly as critical to the Paladin as it is to the Cleric, but it absolutely has its moments to shine. I run a Duelist Spear/Shield PAM build with a back-pocket whip, and Spiritual Weapon is one of several tools that I have found offers quite a bit of flexibility in playstyle, something that martials can sometimes lack in 5E.

Need to nova? PAM gives me 1-2 extra smite chances each turn on the BBEG.

Need some team-friendly battlefield control? Shove prone with first attack, then 2nd attack and PAM both at advantage. Obvious bonus points for being in your aura of conquest.

Don't want to get too close? Spiritual weapon and whip are great here, especially when the opening fear attempt succeeds.

[sempuken]

HI all, new to the site.

So, I have tried reading as many pages as I can, but after a while I thought I might as well just ask, so I am sorry if this question has been asked bunch of times.

My old character died and my DM said I can make a new character starting at level 8, with 1 rare magic item and 1 uncommon. We rolled stats and I got: 14,13,17,13,16,8. what is the most optimized conquest paladin I can build with this? I can use any book/material, and any feats, including UA for stuff like menacing, tunnel fighter etc. Interested in playing this class! I should also mention we are playing Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage.

I was thinking:
-Vhuman, menacing, sentinel, +2 cha for a level 8 start?

that would give me:

14,13,17,8,13,20

-shield and 1 handed weapon

-for fighting style, should I use tunnel fighter? or Defense?

-Belt of hill giant strength for my rare item to increase STR, but unsure about uncommon. If I'm wayyyyy off what is best, let me know.


Thanks!

[Corran]

A few words about spiritual weapon. Also, I kind of wanted to discuss some encounter tactics, so two birds with one stone.

Spoiler

Show

Spiritual weapon plays well with shoving (prone). And shoving plays well with imposing the frightened condition, such as by using conquering presence.

At level 5, conquering presence is one of my few main combat options. I'll leave the justification out of it so I can keep this brief. Shoving can also be a great tool for me, as with the exception of our warlock (who can always target sth else), every other character does, or has the option to do (without sabotaging themselves) their damage from melee. When initiative behaves, conquering presence and shoving becomes a very effective option for me (though usually the decision to use conquering presence or not, is made due to other factors, mainly positioning and secondarily debuffing masses). So, in a vacuum, it seems (and it is, or at least it can be, when you take into account the slot cost) effective to use SW during these fights, cause it profits from all these little bits of synergy. Another important synergy I didn't mention has to do with action economy. Spiritual weapon combines very nicely with conquering presence. This is important. Getting that extra SW attack is sth I cannot do for example when I am using sth like bless (instead of conquering presence).

Practically, spiritual weapon is extra damage, paid by spell slots. Now, it's always important to do damage, but sometimes it is more important than other times. The main difference between spiritual weapon and smite is that usually with smite you want to deal damage right now, and not spread it over multiple turns. Like when for example you find yourself adjacent an enemy glass cannon. Stuff like how your hit chance looks like against the enemies play a part in this comparison for sure, but it's the urgency that plays the biggest role here. So there is definitely value in comparing spiritual weapon to 2nd level smites and spells like aid, but let me digress and talk a bit about spiritual weapon itself.

Ideally, I want to use spiritual weapon when:
1) The fight is tough, obviously, which makes spending resources more justifiable.
2) I have a good hit chance, either due to enemy's low AC or because I somehow boosted my hit chance (eg shoving).
3) But most importantly, when relying on damage is critical for winning.

I'll explain #3 with an example. And this is not just a hypothetical scenario I just came up with, but an encounter the party will most likely need to fight during our next session. Not that this makes any difference, but I guess that thinking ahead of this particular fight is what helped me. So, here is the encounter. About a dozen thugs and their orc war boss (so some sort of mini boss). Now, from the looks of it, this is going to be a very tough encounter, and the enemies wont have a good AC either. But these are not even the most important reasons for wanting to boost my damage. The most important reason, is that during this encounter I will want to focus damage and bring certain individual enemies down fast. You see, thugs are much stronger in melee than they are from range (better attack bonus and twice the attacks). So the first order of business is to try and keep them away from us. And we will try to do that with conquering presence and with entangle from our druid. I hope we did have something better than entangle, but we don't. Now, it is almost certain that some of the thugs will manage to get in melee with us. So, these thugs that do, these are the dangerous ones. Not only because they will strike harder, but also because by being adjacent to our pc's, they will manage to cancel the disadvantage on the restrained and/or frightened thugs that will be firing from range (thanks to pact tactics). That means, that we have very good reasons for trying to bring down fast the thugs fighting us in melee. Even if we don't manage to catch a break and find ourselves without thugs next to us during one turn (which we might, and that would be ideal), because we are not killing fast enough or because we were unlucky enough with our bc options, this is still a difficult encounter against low-AC bags of hit points (#1, #2), so extra damage is still useful. But the point is, that due to the nature of the encounter, extra damage is not only useful because the encounter is going to be tough, but also because there is a tactical need for it. And the distinction here is, that I don't really need burst damage (though burst damage might still have some use during that fight, depending on how well it goes for us). Instead, I need a continual boost so that I can keep helping drop the enemies faster in the order I think it's most effective. In the end, it's just a damage spell, and damage spells will very rarely be the core of any tactics. They usually stand out when you are lacking tactics and you solely depend on bringing the enemy down faster than the enemy can do the same to you. But, boosting your damage is always useful, and sometimes it is useful enough to become part of an optimal strategy. And I think that spiritual weapon will contribute significantly in winning this fight.

As you keep leveling up, spiritual weapon's role becomes less important, but that's because the pc's start getting tools with which they can respond better to fights. But, spiritual weapon is still extra damage, and what's more it will never compete with concentration options, and it still retains the advantage of being easy to combine well with a CD that takes up an action. So you can always use it when you think the fight is tough. It's essentially a more cost-effective smite on average (I say on average, because SW suffers against high AC enemies), albeit with the non-negligible drawback that it lacks the smite's burst potential (which is what allows smite to remain a valid tactical option). Spiritual weapon will be one of those things you use to slightly increase your odds of winning a fight. And you need such things, and these things can make a difference if you stack enough of them on top of each other. It will never be part of a winning strategy, but it's one of those things you can still put to good use in order to help you win a fight.

[Anthalon]

HI all, new to the site.

So, I have tried reading as many pages as I can, but after a while I thought I might as well just ask, so I am sorry if this question has been asked bunch of times.

My old character died and my DM said I can make a new character starting at level 8, with 1 rare magic item and 1 uncommon. We rolled stats and I got: 14,13,17,13,16,8. what is the most optimized conquest paladin I can build with this? I can use any book/material, and any feats, including UA for stuff like menacing, tunnel fighter etc. Interested in playing this class! I should also mention we are playing Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage.

I was thinking:
-Vhuman, menacing, sentinel, +2 cha for a level 8 start?

that would give me:

14,13,17,8,13,20

-shield and 1 handed weapon

-for fighting style, should I use tunnel fighter? or Defense?

-Belt of hill giant strength for my rare item to increase STR, but unsure about uncommon. If I'm wayyyyy off what is best, let me know.


Thanks!

First of all, Sempuken, congratulations on choosing the right character. The Iron Brotherhood (or whatever cool name Conquest Paladins call themselves) welcomes you. When it comes to items, you absolutely can't go wrong with Ogre Gauntlets (Uncommon)/Giant Belts (Rare), but two items that are super on-brand for Conquest are Pipes of Haunting (uncommon, requires instrument proficiency) and Wand of Fear (Rare, requires attunement). Conquering Presence is only once every short rest, and every additional fear effect is another chance for you to do what you do best.

Regarding Fighting styles, I think that Tunnel Fighter/Sentinel is always going to be the "optimized" choice simply because Tunnel Fighter is balanced sooo poorly, and I would go so far to say that it's probably up there with Coffeelock as one of the more munchkin/cheese things that a powergamer can do in 5th Edition. If you and your DM are both cool with that, knock yourself out. If you opt to skip Tunnel Fighter, Duelist and Defense are likely going to be your 2 best options for a SnB build. Sentinel, while a great tanky ability, is far less abusive without Tunnel Fighter, which might mean you would get more mileage out of Res(Con), Inspiring Leader, Shield Master, or my personal favorite, PAM with a spear.

I also think you might be missing a stat point, unless I'm mistaken. You start with 14, 13, 17, 8, 13, 16 as straight rolled, right? With +1 Con & Cha for Racial, + 1 Cha for Menacing, and +2 CHA ASI, you should be at 14, 13, 18, 8, 13, 20. If that is the case, you wouldn't even need Res(Con) because your Aura of Protection already gives you a +9 save.

[sempuken]

First of all, Sempuken, congratulations on choosing the right character. The Iron Brotherhood (or whatever cool name Conquest Paladins call themselves) welcomes you. When it comes to items, you absolutely can't go wrong with Ogre Gauntlets (Uncommon)/Giant Belts (Rare), but two items that are super on-brand for Conquest are Pipes of Haunting (uncommon, requires instrument proficiency) and Wand of Fear (Rare, requires attunement). Conquering Presence is only once every short rest, and every additional fear effect is another chance for you to do what you do best.

Regarding Fighting styles, I think that Tunnel Fighter/Sentinel is always going to be the "optimized" choice simply because Tunnel Fighter is balanced sooo poorly, and I would go so far to say that it's probably up there with Coffeelock as one of the more munchkin/cheese things that a powergamer can do in 5th Edition. If you and your DM are both cool with that, knock yourself out. If you opt to skip Tunnel Fighter, Duelist and Defense are likely going to be your 2 best options for a SnB build. Sentinel, while a great tanky ability, is far less abusive without Tunnel Fighter, which might mean you would get more mileage out of Res(Con), Inspiring Leader, Shield Master, or my personal favorite, PAM with a spear.

I also think you might be missing a stat point, unless I'm mistaken. You start with 14, 13, 17, 8, 13, 16 as straight rolled, right? With +1 Con & Cha for Racial, + 1 Cha for Menacing, and +2 CHA ASI, you should be at 14, 13, 18, 8, 13, 20. If that is the case, you wouldn't even need Res(Con) because your Aura of Protection already gives you a +9 save.

Thank you very much for the feedback. Yea, my DM has no problems with me being powerful; however, maybe ill avoid tunnel fighter for the sake of the other PC's. PAM with a spear works pretty well? you mean 1-handed with a shield? Shield master seems pretty great too? I basically just want a useful bonus action. The rest of my party is: ranged warlock, devotion paladin (that is very new, flavour build), war cleric, moon druid, dragon Sorcerer. Would PAM be better with that composition?

You are right about the stats! That's awesome, I got some nice roles :D. so, do you think I would benefit more from the pipes or the wand of fear? I ask because ill take the the corresponding strength item. If pipes, I'll take Belt of giant strength, Wand I'll talk the gauntlets etc. etc. Just depend on how important strength is to the build.

Thank you!

[Anthalon]

The biggest question in my mind when it comes to items is "How generous is my DM when it comes to magical loot?" While I haven't had the good fortune to get either item in a game, Wand of Fear looks a bit stronger than Pipes of Haunting, as well as more flexible with the Command option. However, the wand takes up an additional attunement slot that Pipes doesn't, so if your DM is pretty good about regularly handing out new stuff you might want to attune to, the Pipes start to look like the better option, on top of the superior strength from the Giant's Belt.

Now, like you I love a good good bonus action, but my biggest beef with Shield Master is this; PAM can do the same thing, but better and more flexibly.

Shield Master= 1d6, 1d6, BA Shove. (A generous DM might let you shove before the first or second attack as long as you take the Attack action, but Crawford can't really make up his mind about the whole thing.)

PAM= 1d6, 1d6, 1d4
OR Shove (replacing normal attack), 1d6 w/advantage, 1d4 w/advantage.
A very picky DM might say that replacing your first attack with a shove doesn't count as "taking the Attack action and attacking with only a spear" but it isn't like you're attacking with anything else, so in my mind it works RAI.

Now, each feat also has some additional benefits, and it looks like you're going to have a rather optimized character no matter which you pick. At the end of the day, the feat that you feel matches your character's personality (or maybe is just more fun) is going to be the right choice.

[sempuken]

The biggest question in my mind when it comes to items is "How generous is my DM when it comes to magical loot?" While I haven't had the good fortune to get either item in a game, Wand of Fear looks a bit stronger than Pipes of Haunting, as well as more flexible with the Command option. However, the wand takes up an additional attunement slot that Pipes doesn't, so if your DM is pretty good about regularly handing out new stuff you might want to attune to, the Pipes start to look like the better option, on top of the superior strength from the Giant's Belt.

Now, like you I love a good good bonus action, but my biggest beef with Shield Master is this; PAM can do the same thing, but better and more flexibly.

Shield Master= 1d6, 1d6, BA Shove. (A generous DM might let you shove before the first or second attack as long as you take the Attack action, but Crawford can't really make up his mind about the whole thing.)

PAM= 1d6, 1d6, 1d4
OR Shove (replacing normal attack), 1d6 w/advantage, 1d4 w/advantage.
A very picky DM might say that replacing your first attack with a shove doesn't count as "taking the Attack action and attacking with only a spear" but it isn't like you're attacking with anything else, so in my mind it works RAI.

Now, each feat also has some additional benefits, and it looks like you're going to have a rather optimized character no matter which you pick. At the end of the day, the feat that you feel matches your character's personality (or maybe is just more fun) is going to be the right choice.

For sure! thanks for all this advice. the spear with PAM sounds pretty good because it opens me up to other weapon types if I don't feel like using a shield.

[Sception]

My old character died and my DM said I can make a new character starting at level 8, with 1 rare magic item and 1 uncommon. We rolled stats and I got: 14,13,17,13,16,8.

That's one heck of a generous starting package. And UA is allowed? Let's see....

I'd go with one of:
fallen aasimar, lv 7 conqueror, 1 hexblade
Starting stats, post-racial
Str 15
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 13
Cha 19
ASI: warcaster
Next asi: menacing character level 9, paladin 8.
Warlock cantrips: boomin blade, eldritch blast
Warlock spells: shield, cause fear
Uncommon item: +1 longsword
Rare Item: +2 shield
Defence style
Class skills: insight, athletics
Background soldier: intimidation, athletics -> perception

With access to tunnel fighter, I'd be strongly tempted to go tunnel fighter, sentinel, optionally polearm master, on either a vuman or a warforged envoy, with +1 halberd and belt of hill giant strength... except that tunnel/sentinel/reach is already an incredible lockdown combo and at that rate why bother with aura of conquest? Might as well play a battle master instead, which would also free up extra asi slots for gwm, etc. If you really wanted that combo on a paladin, I'd go for oathbreaker if the gm allowed it, otherwise ancients or maybe crown.

[sempuken]

That's one heck of a generous starting package. And UA is allowed? Let's see....

I'd go with one of:
fallen aasimar, lv 7 conqueror, 1 hexblade
Starting stats, post-racial
Str 15
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 13
Cha 19
ASI: warcaster
Next asi: menacing character level 9, paladin 8.
Warlock cantrips: boomin blade, eldritch blast
Warlock spells: shield, cause fear
Uncommon item: +1 longsword
Rare Item: +2 shield
Defence style
Class skills: insight, athletics
Background soldier: intimidation, athletics -> perception

With access to tunnel fighter, I'd be strongly tempted to go tunnel fighter, sentinel, optionally polearm master, on either a vuman or a warforged envoy, with +1 halberd and belt of hill giant strength... except that tunnel/sentinel/reach is already an incredible lockdown combo and at that rate why bother with aura of conquest? Might as well play a battle master instead, which would also free up extra asi slots for gwm, etc. If you really wanted that combo on a paladin, I'd go for oathbreaker if the gm allowed it, otherwise ancients or maybe crown.

Thanks very much for the advice! This is a sweet build also! I Understand the suggestion to just go battlemaster with tunnel fighter. lots to decide! My character that died was a hexblade with GWM, elven accuracy etc. I kinda overshadowed the rest of the group. Everyone in this game is very new except for the DM and I, so I made a deal with the DM that my next char could be as busted as I wanted, but that it would be a "tank" or "support" role so the other members could do the killing. Im fine with it, that's just the reason why I'm avoiding GWM. I should prolly avoid Tunnel fighter too haha.

[OverDemon]

Really great guide. I think I have found my next character. This or a Hexblade Warlock ^^

(While it's more detailed below, what I'm basically asking is: What do you want in Ability Scores when you're done?)

However, reading through it I find myself in doubt about Ability Scores and the Ability Score Improvement. It's highlighted that you want:

• 20 Charisma (you want to max this)
• 15 Strength (for plate armor)
• The Sentinel feat (it's the only gold feat)

So I'm looking at the Dragonborn or Variant Human as races, so with some good dice rolls during character creation, I would expect to be able to get 15 strength from Lvl. 1 or after 1 ASI. Then I would like to get 20 CHA (which would likely require 1 or 2 ASI boosts) and the Sentinel feat. So, to me, it looks that even under the best of circumstances, you would likely have to expend 2 ASI to get to the BASELINE for this character.

Now, with Dex is not an issue for AC with chainmail and plate, but what about Constitution? And while you NEED 15 STR for plate, is that all you want?

And then's there are the feats. I imagine the only reason Shield Master is not gold is to allow people to choose their own weapons. But to be able to knock people prone with a bonus action AND keep them that way with frightened. I CAN'T see myself NOT choosing this.

Anyway, with 2 ASI likely used to get to the baseline and then another for a feat, that leaves 2 ASI to put in Ability Scores or other great feats, but what is NEEDED/WANTED in Ability Scores for a Lvl. 20 paladin?

(IS Variant Human more economic than the Dragonborn in terms of ASI? You get 2 in Ability Scores AND a Feat = 2 ASI, where the Dragonborn gets 3 in Ability Scores = 1.5 ASI. Though I had considered the Dragon Fear feat)

[shadowxknight]

Ran into this thread while Googling for a similar build. So my question is the Hex Warrior doesn't stack well with Sentinel since it specifically says "does not have the two-handed trait". The reason why we pick up Sentinel is to keep enemies 10 feet away from us right?

[1Pirate]

Ran into this thread while Googling for a similar build. So my question is the Hex Warrior doesn't stack well with Sentinel since it specifically says "does not have the two-handed trait". The reason why we pick up Sentinel is to keep enemies 10 feet away from us right?

That's a polearm combo, perfectly valid. However Sentinel is used to prevent enemies from running past you, or to pick up an extra attack once you've got a fair number locked down.

[MeeposFire]

Ran into this thread while Googling for a similar build. So my question is the Hex Warrior doesn't stack well with Sentinel since it specifically says "does not have the two-handed trait". The reason why we pick up Sentinel is to keep enemies 10 feet away from us right?

Hex warrior however can be used with two handed weapons if you pick up pact of the blade so that is an option if you are able and willing to add a couple more warlock levels.

[Sception]

That's a polearm combo, perfectly valid. However Sentinel is used to prevent enemies from running past you, or to pick up an extra attack once you've got a fair number locked down.

This. Sentinel does 3 things:

1) lets you make an opp attack against enemies that provoke from you even if they used the disengage action.

2) when you hit an enemy with an opp attack their speed is reduced to zero, stopping them from walking away from you

3) if an enemy in your reach attacks your ally, you can attack that enemy as a reaction.

Together, even without polearm master, it's a highly effective tanking tool, to the point that it should be considered obligatory on most tanks. However, it is limited by the dependency on reactions. While your reaction is available, it's extremely difficult to ignore you or escape from you, but as soon as you use your reaction you lose all the control sentinel offers until your next turn rolls around. As such, it's most effective when tanking a single threatening foe.

It does combine well with polearm master and a reach weapon to stop an enemy as they approach you, but that's really too many feats for an asi starved class like paladin, conquest especially. Leave that sort of business to battle masters & cavaliers. And even for them, the reaction limit is still an issue.

While sentinel is obligatory on most tanks, its effects are mostly redundant with aura of conquest on frightened enemies, which already reduces speed to zero so they won't be provoking opp attacks from you to begin with. The reaction attack for targeting your allies is still decent, and the opp attack stuff is still great for tanking fear immune enemies or those that pass their wisdom saves. It's still probably worth taking eventually, but maxing your cha score & shoring up your attack stat & con saves are probably higher priorities, pushing sentinel back to level 16 or 19 at the earliest, unless you want to take it as a human bonus feat.

Conquest pallies are the only tanks in 5e where I'd say skipping sentinel entirely is a valid, though probably still not optimal choice.

[Sception]

I think this guide is slightly underrating Lightfoot Halflings. I'd give them a solid Black, maybe even Dark Blue for Dexterity Builds specifically. They have the right stat bonuses for a Dexterity-based Conqueror, Re-rolling botched attack rolls & concentration saves is great, and while small size isn't ideal for a Conquest Paladin, the ability to move through the spaces of medium or larger enemies in order to perfectly position a Fear cone or your Aura of Conquest is.

And while you might not think of Halflings as 'scary' in most campaigns, in Eberron one of the most powerful and feared organized crime families in Khorvaire is made up of Halflings, so the idea of Halflings being dangerous and intimidating isn't that hard to imagine in at least one major campaign world. Personally I think a Lightfoot Halfling Conquest Dexadin mafia enforcer could make for an interesting and rather effective character.

[Anthalon]

I think this guide is slightly underrating Lightfoot Halflings. I'd give them a solid Black, maybe even Dark Blue for Dexterity Builds specifically. They have the right stat bonuses for a Dexterity-based Conqueror, Re-rolling botched attack rolls & concentration saves is great, and while small size isn't ideal for a Conquest Paladin, the ability to move through the spaces of medium or larger enemies in order to perfectly position a Fear cone or your Aura of Conquest is.

I wanna hate it, I really do, but you've kinda sold me a little bit on Dex Paladins. Having an effective +1 to every roll you make and a better superstat (plz nerf Dex, WOTC) is pretty sweet, although I think that purple is an accurate rating due to the relative rareness of the Dexadin build as a whole. However, I think that there are definitely better Paladin subclasses for the Dexadin than Conquest, (and better races for Dexadin) and I'll tell ya why.

Other than the racial hilarity of a conquering halfling, the biggest bummers I see are the fact that while Dex brings actual ranged options to the table, the Small size knocks the best ones right off the table again by virtue of being heavy; our best options is then the shortbow, and that's no better than Strength-chucking javelins. Brave is also a waste after Paladin 10, although that's not a major issue. The other issue is Conquest-specific; shoving is huge for us due to the fear aura enabling perma-prone, and not only are Halflings quite a bit punier, they're also too small to shove large enemies in the first place, which takes a major tactical option out of our toolbox.

All that said, I still totally love the idea of Merric Tealeaf, the Diminutive Dominator, laying waste to his enemies' kneecaps, and I thank you for the visual.

[Mitchellnotes]

.
All that said, I still totally love the idea of Merric Tealeaf, the Diminutive Dominator, laying waste to his enemies' kneecaps, and I thank you for the visual.

I love the idea of a lightfoot halfling conquest pally because they can go either dex or cha with hexblade, and can use a whip for 10' range while mounted. Since their mounts can be medium, they likely will be able to universally take better advantage of them. The lessened ability to knock prone is a thing, but i think they get a lot to make up for it.

[Sception]

Main benefit of dex build is initiative, certainly. Losing out on shoving is a significant loss, but better dex saves and the ability to potentially start controling space or even locking down enemies before they can act is big enough to be a legitimate alternative, imo. Still a step behind strength builds due to multiclassing hassle, but yeah, a legitimate option none the less, and one that obviously requires a different lense on racial choice.

I still maintain that lightfoot halflings are surprisingly decent here. Even the shove issue isn't that big a deal as your allies can trip the enemies you've trapped themselves if you can't. Ime allies are either meleeing themselves, in which case they are usually decent enough shovers and just need to be encouraged to actually do so, or else they're ranged attackers and don't want the enemies to be prone regardless. And again, moving through enemy squares is often increadibly helpful for putting your aura in the right place.

Even with all that, yeah, I am maybe being a little bit facetious with the halfling suggestion. Like, they are surprisingly good compared to expectations, but only because the combination is so completely unexpected to begin with. Even if you do favor a conquest dexadin as a change of pace, halflings certainly aren't the *best* race. That distinction probably goes to Eladrin. Winter aspect Eladrin specifically, who aren't quite as good for conquest dexadins as fallen aasimar are for their strength based cousines, but imo they're still notably above vuman or half elf, which are, amusingly enough, the runners up regardless of oreferred weapon attack stat.

I don't recall if they've already been discussed in the thread, but in addition to the right stat bonuses for a dexadin and the decent package of elf traits - resistance to charm, immunity to sleep, perception proficiency, darkvision - Eladrin also have a valuable bonus action teleport that recharges on a short rest, which can help a ton with positioning. Best of all, in the winter aspect the teleport gets a frighten effect tacked on. Single target, wisdom save to resist, & only a single round duration, but as a freebie extra to an already great positioning ability that's potentually usable multiple times per day it's fantastic.

Thematically it's a bit difficult to square the fickle Eladrin disposition with a paladin's devotion to their oath, let alone the conqueror's insistance on order above all else, but winter aspect eladrin express a fatalistic selfishness that can work for a conqueror, and MTF says some Eladrin follow fey lords rather than elven gods. Despite the chaotic leanings of the fey, their courts have an inscrutable yet deathly serious sort of feudal hierarchy that could fit with an eladrin conquest dexadin if you play up a 'knight of the winter court' angle.

[myrddincat]

I've been using this guide to help build my current character. Specifically, I've made a Death Stick. :) He's currently level 8.

I have a friend who almost always takes a dip into Warlock (there are plenty of reasons why this is good, most/all of the time).
He's got me thinking that maybe I should consider doing the same.
The issue is that I don't want to lose any potential feats, so I'd want to take a 4 level dip if any at all.

My Str is 19, and my Cha is 20, so it doesn't seem terribly important to be using Cha over Str for attack bonuses. And the hexblade abilities seem more geared toward one handed weapons.
Is there any real benefit to taking 4 levels of Warlock (of any subclass/pact) over sticking with Paladin until the end?

Alternatively, is there any major benefit of taking a 4 level dip into some other class that I may have not thought of?
If I took the dip into something other than Warlock, I wouldn't want to also take a Warlock dip. I'd like to focus on Paladin as much as possible, as that's not a class I normally play, and I'm enjoying it so far.

[Sception]

A single level hexblade dip gives a lot, doesn't lose any feats, and is only a slight delay on conquest advancement. I'd save it for after you get third level spells at level 9, unless you're looking to squeak by on 15 str heavy armor or 13 str, 14 dex medium armor. Either way leaves you with only a +2 stat mod on your weapon attacks, which probably needs replacement before level 10.

The second level hexblade will cost a feat, but long term is probably worth the sacrifice. At the very least, probably makes a better capstone than Paladin 19.

...

More levels of warlock are certainly viable. Costs you a lot more in your conqueror progression, you'll lose aura expansion & such. You'll be *less* of a conqueror, but you can make it up in other stuff. Again, I'd probably wait until after you've grabbed Fear at level 9, unless your campaign is going to start at or after level 12, in which case a Conqueror 7-8, Hexblade 5+, Divine Sorc 0+ build works well.

If you take more than two levels of Warlock, then I'd recommend taking at least 5, to cast Fear with your short rest slots.

Apart from Warlock, sorcerer is also an excellent multiclass option. 3+ levels for Heightened Fear is the biggest reward there, but advanced spell slot progression & a few subclass bonuses are great as well. Spirit Guardians is a really solid spell, albeit one that will compete with Fear for spell slots.

[OverDemon]

Is taking a level in Hexblade Warlock still worth it over pure Conquest Paladin if Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide material isn't allowed (aka. Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade)?

Those two cantrips came highly recommended in the guide.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Is taking a level in Hexblade Warlock still worth it over pure Conquest Paladin if Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide material isn't allowed (aka. Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade)?

Those two cantrips came highly recommended in the guide.

Yes. The point of Hexblade isn't really those cantrips, they're just bonuses. The real point is to make yourself SAD on Charisma for all attacks, weapon damage, DC saves, spell attacks, aura, etc. It lets you focus on just maxing Cha, getting a good Con, having a good enough Dex or Str for AC, and then taking feats. Also the Hexblade Curse for Crit/Smite fishing and extra damage.

Oh, and also the 2 short-rest recovering spell slots for smiting. And probably Eldritch Blast for having a decent ranged attack. And access to the Shield spell.

Honestly, it's a whole lot for just a 1 level dip, with or without Booming Blade. Probably way too much.