The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

[Voidhawk]

Great guide, and has sparked my interest in playing a more controlling and/or horrible Paladin.

Could I get some advice on an option not mentioned in the guide? Using a Whip.

Whips are one-handed for use with shields, have 10ft reach for Sentinel/Aura/Prone-lock shenanigans, and Finesse for the rare Dex builds. The downside is obviously their d4 damage die, but for a build that is all about de-buffing and control that's not the worst thing in the world. And you can always carry a secondary high-damage weapon for when you need to just flatten something.

Best of all, they are perfect for reminding newly acquired slaves of their place (eg: crushed beneath your iron boot).

What do you all think, would it be viable?

[Sception]

When selecting weapons there are three ideal features, of which you get to pick two.

1. Decent damage die - control & support leanings not withstanding, you're still a melee damage dealer.

2. Reach - helps a lot for melee control, especially if you grab sentinel, and lets you bully melee only enemies trapped by your aura

3. One handed - so you can carry a shield. +2 ac matters a lot for a tank.

Weapons like longsword, rapier, battle axe, etc get you 1 & 3. Halberd is the choice for 1 & 2. And, yes, whip is the choice for 2 & 3, and thus is among the ideal weapon options for a conqueror. Any non-multiclass conqueror should probably make a point of carrying one as at least a backup weapon option.

That said, you're not really locked into any particular weapon options, not unless you're making some very unusual choices for the subclass - a GWM or PAM conqueror build is perfectly workable, but probably better served by devotion, vengeance, or oathbreaker. As such, by the time you're picking up your subclass aura you're probably also starting to see magic item drops, at which point you're not really picking what weapons you use anymore, your DM is.


As for multiclass builds, you're probably at least dipping hexblade, which only applies to a single weapon per day. Whip is still a decent choice for primary weapon, but if its not your primary then there's not much point keeping it around as a secondary. Switching weapon choice on the fly is a privilege of non-hex conquerors, though its one hex dips can buy back with two more warlock levels.

[GoodGulfGas]

If your main objective is controlling with fear, the whip is a good choice. You can deliver Wrathful Smite from 10 feet away and get your +2 to AC. If you need extra damage, throw in a Divine Smite.

[Wildarm]

If your main objective is controlling with fear, the whip is a good choice. You can deliver Wrathful Smite from 10 feet away and get your +2 to AC. If you need extra damage, throw in a Divine Smite.

Dueling Fighting Style is another way to help shore up a whip user for damage. The main trouble I find with a whip honestly is the general lack of magical whips in most games. Talk with your DM ahead of time to make sure you can eventually find or create a magical whip if you are focusing on using that weapon. Otherwise, Tier 2 and onward you may struggle with non-magic weapon resistance decreasing your already low damage to nothing.

[stevensirovai]

Hey guys! Thanks so much for keeping this thread alive. After thoroughly reading and weighing options I've decided to go for it! This week I'm playing in a Ravnica campaign and I'll be playing a conq paladin as a representative of the Orzhov guild. Thought it for nicely!
Starting at lvl3 so ill go
Vuman
14
10
16
8
8
16
(buy)

Feat: sentinel
Fighting style I'll go defense
Weapon is a whip.
I've made my peace with not being the damage dealer in the party, it's all about battlefield control for me. I'll be an enforcer of rules / debt collector.

Thanks for the awesome suggestions I'll deffo keep my eyes on this thread for more of m!
In case anyone thinks: maybe change this up a bit (stat or the chosen feat) let me know! It won't be a super long campaign methinks so doubt we'll reach lvl 10.

[Chadsius]

Just wanted to say I’m loving my tyrant, and I probably wouldn’t have even glanced at it without this thread. So, thanks op.

Mine is somewhat sub-optimized as I chose mounted combatant for my vhuman feat but I’m loving the flavor of galloping around the battlefield on my huge, black, armored destrier and smashing enemies with my warhammer (I’m ignoring lance because I want to get up close and personal and keep aggro) at advantage. DM is being chill with allowing the horse into many spaces, and buffed its hp to equal 1d10+con mod/caster level.

Hey guys! Thanks so much for keeping this thread alive. After thoroughly reading and weighing options I've decided to go for it! This week I'm playing in a Ravnica campaign and I'll be playing a conq paladin as a representative of the Orzhov guild. Thought it for nicely!
Starting at lvl3 so ill go
Vuman
14
10
16
8
8
16
(buy)

Feat: sentinel
Fighting style I'll go defense
Weapon is a whip.
I've made my peace with not being the damage dealer in the party, it's all about battlefield control for me. I'll be an enforcer of rules / debt collector.

Thanks for the awesome suggestions I'll deffo keep my eyes on this thread for more of m!
In case anyone thinks: maybe change this up a bit (stat or the chosen feat) let me know! It won't be a super long campaign methinks so doubt we'll reach lvl 10.

I’m glad you decided to go with the whip. You’ll feel more unique compared to many other Paladins, and let’s be honest; when you need to burst enemies down, you’ll be using lots of smite damage and won’t feel the d4 base damage dice. also, your spiritual weapon (which I personally use frequently) will have a full 1d8 damage dice.

[Klaus Teufel]

Hey guys! Thanks so much for keeping this thread alive. After thoroughly reading and weighing options I've decided to go for it! This week I'm playing in a Ravnica campaign and I'll be playing a conq paladin as a representative of the Orzhov guild. Thought it for nicely!
Starting at lvl3 so ill go
Vuman
14
10
16
8
8
16
(buy)

Feat: sentinel
Fighting style I'll go defense
Weapon is a whip.
I've made my peace with not being the damage dealer in the party, it's all about battlefield control for me. I'll be an enforcer of rules / debt collector.

Thanks for the awesome suggestions I'll deffo keep my eyes on this thread for more of m!
In case anyone thinks: maybe change this up a bit (stat or the chosen feat) let me know! It won't be a super long campaign methinks so doubt we'll reach lvl 10.

Don't you need 15 Str for heavy armour?

[stevensirovai]

Don't you need 15 Str for heavy armour?

You do for splint and plate but I have chain mail which requires 13. I'll eventually bump up str to 15 but as we're on lvl 3 I won't have access to splint and plate anyway.

[BrusLi]

Wouldn't taking PAM and using Spear with dueling be the most optimal?

You still get the PAM, SHIELD, DUELING,Reaction attack when people enter your 5ft reach and bonus action 1d4 attack that you can use in conjunction with Improved divine smite feature and when you aren't using wrathful smite.

It becomes ASI intense, but better than spending spell slots for spiritual weapon 1d8+cha in a long run or upcasting it on third level when you could use other things,like FEAR, right?

[kazaryu]

Cleric:*A good spell list, but most of their class features don’t compliment you. Plus, you shouldn’t be investing in WIS.

One thing i will point out for a cleric multiclass. A single level dip in life cleric means you dont need to use paladin prep slots to prepare cure and bless, while also giving you (at least) 2 spell slots to prepare whatever (like detection spells). A cleric dip gives you ritual casting. And lastly life cleric has great synergy with aura of vitality for healing up your peo- ahem party members out of combat.

Now, one might argue that this doesnt fit the theme. And id agree, in some cases, but i can certainly see it being thenatic for certain types of conquorers.

[Iron Frog]

Wouldn't taking PAM and using Spear with dueling be the most optimal?

The spear does not benefit from any of the Polearm Master feat's benefits.

[Sception]

The spear does not benefit from any of the Polearm Master feat's benefits.

It was erratad to do so. If you want to deal damage, PAM is a good way to go. However, the subclass is more tanking oriented, with very heavy stat requirements, so I'd personally advise spending most of your ASIs on stat advancements, and where you do take feats reaching instead for sentinel, resilient, warcaster, inspiring leader, or alert.

[Iron Frog]

It was erratad to do so.

Nice, I honestly wasn't aware of that. Thanks!

And I agree, Conquest is a very ASI-starved class, and it was painful to make room even for the basics (Resilient and Sentinel), but maybe because I did so before bumping CHA to 20...

[BrusLi]

It was erratad to do so. If you want to deal damage, PAM is a good way to go. However, the subclass is more tanking oriented, with very heavy stat requirements, so I'd personally advise spending most of your ASIs on stat advancements, and where you do take feats reaching instead for sentinel, resilient, warcaster, inspiring leader, or alert.

In the end, those were my thoughts as well.
I was just thinking out loud :)

[bdyer]

When selecting weapons there are three ideal features, of which you get to pick two.

1. Decent damage die - control & support leanings not withstanding, you're still a melee damage dealer.

2. Reach - helps a lot for melee control, especially if you grab sentinel, and lets you bully melee only enemies trapped by your aura

3. One handed - so you can carry a shield. +2 ac matters a lot for a tank.

Weapons like longsword, rapier, battle axe, etc get you 1 & 3. Halberd is the choice for 1 & 2. And, yes, whip is the choice for 2 & 3, and thus is among the ideal weapon options for a conqueror. Any non-multiclass conqueror should probably make a point of carrying one as at least a backup weapon option.

That said, you're not really locked into any particular weapon options, not unless you're making some very unusual choices for the subclass - a GWM or PAM conqueror build is perfectly workable, but probably better served by devotion, vengeance, or oathbreaker. As such, by the time you're picking up your subclass aura you're probably also starting to see magic item drops, at which point you're not really picking what weapons you use anymore, your DM is.


As for multiclass builds, you're probably at least dipping hexblade, which only applies to a single weapon per day. Whip is still a decent choice for primary weapon, but if its not your primary then there's not much point keeping it around as a secondary. Switching weapon choice on the fly is a privilege of non-hex conquerors, though its one hex dips can buy back with two more warlock levels.

I went with flail instead of longsword because for thematic reasons. Looking like the witch king of agmar from lotr... just awesome. Inspire thatfear 1

[diplomancer]

Don't you need 15 Str for heavy armour?

Not exactly, you just get a movement penalty. If you are on a steed most of the time, it doesn't make that much of a difference. Something to consider.

[Wildarm]

What are folks opinions on delaying final CHA bump for PAM on a Conquest Hexblade/Paladin with access to a staff of power. You gain a strong reaction when foes approach you and a bonus action attack. BA attack competes with a lot of other nice bonus actions that the Conquest pally has like Hex, Hexblade Curse, Spiritual Weapon and Wrathful smite in particular.

I know Conquest pally's aren't necessarily DPS, it does seem nice when you can stack so many bonuses on your base attack. Hex, Improved Divine Smite, Hexblade Curse, Staff Charges and Smites means you can do a serious nova.

Anyone had access to Staff of Power on a Conquest Pally? It's incredible defensively and gives some nice non-fear AOE/Control, does it need PAM to increase your damage output or is that overkill?

[CheddarChampion]

What are folks opinions on delaying final CHA bump for PAM on a Conquest Hexblade/Paladin with access to a staff of power.

Well your at will damage would go up, especially so if you have Improved Divine Smite.

If you don't have IDS yet I'd just take the Cha bump: accuracy+damage per hit boost, spell save DC boost, aura of protection boost. Everything you do you now do better.

[.::Pr0 n00b::.]

Dragonborn
lvl 3

STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 14

Feats: Heavy armor master (Our DM let us get a free feat at lvl 1 )

So what you guys think should i upgrade CHA to 16 or get a feat. Im thinking getting CHA to 16 because im only 3 and il get it at lvl 8 dont even have the Aura of Conquest yet.

[Wildarm]

Dragonborn
lvl 3

STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 14

Feats: Heavy armor master (Our DM let us get a free feat at lvl 1 )

So what you guys think should i upgrade CHA to 16 or get a feat. Im thinking getting CHA to 16 because im only 3 and il get it at lvl 8 dont even have the Aura of Conquest yet.

Getting CHA to 20 should be your priority as a conquest pally. Bump it at level 4 and 8 at the very least.

[McSkrag]

What are folks opinions on delaying final CHA bump for PAM on a Conquest Hexblade/Paladin with access to a staff of power.

A Staff of Power is always great to have.

Having played a Conquest 16 / Hexblade 1 I found that between Hexblade Curse, casting Hex, moving Hex, and all the smite spells there is already a lot of competition for bonus actions. So you're going to have a hard time using the PAM 3rd attack enough to make it worthwhile.

I agree with Malisteen to prioritize maxing your CHA then think about "sentinel, resilient, warcaster, inspiring leader, or alert." I would also add Lucky to that list.

Sentinel is particularly good because you don't have a good offensive reaction and it makes you a much better tank.

[Sception]

You have warcaster already, right? For a hexadin, my priority order is generally Warcaster first, then max cha, then consider other feats only after that. Excepting of course variant humans who get a bonus feat at level 1 which cannot be warcaster. That should probably go to sentinel then, though resilient con, lucky, alert, inspiring leader, etc are all viable alternatives. Having access to a staff of power, as amazing as that is, doesn't really change that.

Polearm master is never a bad feat, so if you want to interrupt the priority queue for it that's fine, I just you're better off waiting for it, and possibly better off not taking it at all. As McSkrag points out, it's not like hexadins are hurting for viable bonus action options, especially conquest hexadins who have spiritual weapon on top of the various hexblade options. And the reaction attack will up your damage by letting you attack out of turn more often, but on a conqueror I'd personally rather keep the reaction open to punish enemies who might want to walk away from me rather than getting in an attack on those who approach.

So yeah, personally I'd skip PAM altogether on this character, and certainly wouldn't interrupt the normal warcaster, +2 cha, +2 cha progression for it, but if you really want it then it won't go to waste, you'll certainly deal more damage.

[GoodGulfGas]

Dragonborn
lvl 3

STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 14

Feats: Heavy armor master (Our DM let us get a free feat at lvl 1 )

So what you guys think should i upgrade CHA to 16 or get a feat. Im thinking getting CHA to 16 because im only 3 and il get it at lvl 8 dont even have the Aura of Conquest yet.

If it were me, I would put the 18 on Charisma and have Str and Con at 14. I would take the Dragon Fear feat as the free feat. It's a Charisma saving throw and you get to bump Str, Con, or Cha. Maybe bump Con to 15 and take Resilient (Con) later at 4th or 8th level. Bump Strength to 16 at 4th or 8th depending on when to take Resilient (Con).

Then I would bump Charisma to 20 at 12th level.

[Foxydono]

Could I ask for some feedback on my build? I'm going to play Horde of the Dragon Queen en The Rise of Tiamat. We have a group of four players: moon druid, abjuration wizard, me and an unknown. We start as level one and I'm planning to go straight paladin without dipping into hexblade.

Race: Yuan Ti pureblood. Stats (after racial bonus):
Str 15
Dex 9
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 17

Feats: Menacing, Warcaster, +2 Cha, Shield Master, resilient Dex.

Fighting style: defense (full plate), weapons: long sword and whip.

My spell selection is not an issue.

To clarify my feats. I'll be fighting dragons. Only the Green Dragon has a Con Saving Throw, but I'm immune to poison. The other dragon types have a Dexterity Saving Throw. Hence my choice for Resilient Dex and Shield Master. I can take zero damage from breath weapon attacks, or so I hope.

As for my questions:
- Is this a good build?
- Are my feats oké? Maybe take sentinal for more control or resilient Con for saves.
- Warcaster before or after 20 Charisma? You do need Concentration.
- Is it a mistake not to go Hexblade? +2 to hit is not a lot, even if I often have advantage.
- Any other suggestions?

Help is much appreciated!

[CheddarChampion]

As for my questions:
- Is this a good build?
- Are my feats oké? Maybe take sentinal for more control or resilient Con for saves.
- Warcaster before or after 20 Charisma? You do need Concentration.
- Is it a mistake not to go Hexblade? +2 to hit is not a lot, even if I often have advantage.
- Any other suggestions?

Help is much appreciated!

The main drawback here is your low accuracy and damage. You won't do much offensively against dragons (high AC and Wis saves).

I suggest you take your second level as hexblade to boost your offense.
I'd go with ASI order as: Menacing, Resilient, Shield Master, Charisma +2, Warcaster. But only if you can stow a weapon, cast a spell, then draw the weapon again on your next turn (or if your DM handwaves somatic components since your shield can be a holy symbol).

[Wildarm]

Could I ask for some feedback on my build? I'm going to play Horde of the Dragon Queen en The Rise of Tiamat. We have a group of four players: moon druid, abjuration wizard, me and an unknown. We start as level one and I'm planning to go straight paladin without dipping into hexblade.

Race: Yuan Ti pureblood. Stats (after racial bonus):
Str 15
Dex 9
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 17

Feats: Menacing, Warcaster, +2 Cha, Shield Master, resilient Dex.

Fighting style: defense (full plate), weapons: long sword and whip.

My spell selection is not an issue.

To clarify my feats. I'll be fighting dragons. Only the Green Dragon has a Con Saving Throw, but I'm immune to poison. The other dragon types have a Dexterity Saving Throw. Hence my choice for Resilient Dex and Shield Master. I can take zero damage from breath weapon attacks, or so I hope.

As for my questions:
- Is this a good build?
- Are my feats oké? Maybe take sentinal for more control or resilient Con for saves.
- Warcaster before or after 20 Charisma? You do need Concentration.
- Is it a mistake not to go Hexblade? +2 to hit is not a lot, even if I often have advantage.
- Any other suggestions?

Help is much appreciated!

Is the build good? Yes, a conquest Paladin with menacing is very good. Solid at will lockdown for many foes at the cost of an attack. Advantage on magic saves is very strong as well for a defensive character.

Res(Con) is a good choice, potentially change your Con to 13/15 and if you plan to go that route. Mostly depends on what level you're starting at. Warcaster is only really needed if you dip Hexblade IMO as you get access to some excellent reaction spells(Shield) and opportunity attacks(Booming Blade). Sentinel would be better if you go straight Pally.

Hexblade dip is just too good for a CHA focused Paladin. Short rest smites, solid ranged attack and +2 to attack and damage is too good to pass up for a single level dip.

Be careful with using Shield Master as your defense against breath weapons. The boost to dex saves only applies if you're the only person in the breath attack, something a creature as smart as a dragon would rarely do. They wanna catch most of the party(and can often do so). No damage on a successful save as a reaction still works fine though.

[Foxydono]

The main drawback here is your low accuracy and damage. You won't do much offensively against dragons (high AC and Wis saves).

I suggest you take your second level as hexblade to boost your offense.
I'd go with ASI order as: Menacing, Resilient, Shield Master, Charisma +2, Warcaster. But only if you can stow a weapon, cast a spell, then draw the weapon again on your next turn (or if your DM handwaves somatic components since your shield can be a holy symbol).

Thanks for the advice. The casting of a spell and stowing and drawing a weapon won't be an issue with my dm. Taking resilient and shield master earlier makes sense, but won't it be better to take shield master first to use shove? It's a good use of my bonus action and I can take half dmg from breath weapons with my reaction. The resilient Dex just makes it more reliable.

[Foxydono]

Hexblade dip is just too good for a CHA focused Paladin. Short rest smites, solid ranged attack and +2 to attack and damage is too good to pass up for a single level dip.

Be careful with using Shield Master as your defense against breath weapons. The boost to dex saves only applies if you're the only person in the breath attack, something a creature as smart as a dragon would rarely do. They wanna catch most of the party(and can often do so). No damage on a successful save as a reaction still works fine though.

So, you advice dipping into Hexblade and taking warcaster earlier? To clarify on shield master, apart from knocking enemies prone, which will be easy when they are feared, it gives the evasion ability as a reaction. At worsed I will half the damage and at best I won't get damaged at all. I could take resilient Constitution, but my gut feeling tells me that I'll lose concentration anyway if I take damage from a breath attack from an adult or ancient dragon. But maybe I'm too focused on dragons, there will be many other enemies.

[CheddarChampion]

Taking resilient and shield master earlier makes sense, but won't it be better to take shield master first to use shove? It's a good use of my bonus action and I can take half dmg from breath weapons with my reaction. The resilient Dex just makes it more reliable.

Shield Master:
*+2 to Dex saves if you are the only one targeted.
*Shove prone as a bonus action after taking the attack action. (Your athletics is only 2+proficiency bonus. Compared to a creature with only a +3 in Str or Dex your odds are close to 60% success at level 9 or 84% when you frighten. These odds are a rough estimate. You cannot shove a huge or larger creature such as a tougher dragon.)
*Use your reaction on a successful Dex save to take no damage. This is not the same as evasion: if you fail the save you take full damage and cannot use SM's reaction. (Your Dex save will be -1 starting out, +3 with aura of protection. With Resilient this goes to 4+proficiency bonus.)

So Resilient boosts your Dex save by 1+proficiency bonus and increases other Dex stuff by 1 (stealth, initiative). At level 9 this means a +5 boost to Dex saves and a +9 total. SM only helps with breath weapons if you are the only one targeted or if you succeed with your +3/+5.

[Wildarm]

So, you advice dipping into Hexblade and taking warcaster earlier? To clarify on shield master, apart from knocking enemies prone, which will be easy when they are feared, it gives the evasion ability as a reaction. At worsed I will half the damage and at best I won't get damaged at all. I could take resilient Constitution, but my gut feeling tells me that I'll lose concentration anyway if I take damage from a breath attack from an adult or ancient dragon. But maybe I'm too focused on dragons, there will be many other enemies.

I have not run HotDQ yet so I can't comment on how many actual dragons you'll face but in general Shield Master is not a prime feat for a Conquest Pally as there are alot of options for your Bonus action. Another thing to consider is you have your steed who also does a great job at knocking foes prone with no action required on your part. If you're worried about Dex saves, Res(Dex) is probably a better choice if you've got an odd Dex modifier. Even better I'd say take Inspiring Leader to just give everyone THP to soak those breath attacks.