The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest

[arnin77]

Is anyone playing sword and board conquest without war caster or is that a must?

[Sception]

If you pick up shield and/or endure elements via multiclass or otherwise, then warcaster is probably a must for sword & board conquerors, yeah. Otherwise, it's not a must have, but you will eventually want something to shore up concentration saves, if not war caster then resilient con, or maybe lucky.

[Yruil]

Hi! I am currently playing a Conquest Paladin (Level 7 at the moment). I am currently planning on taking a feat once I reach level 8 but I am torn between multiple choices.
All stats and HP are rolled.

Party members include: Light Cleric, Moon druid, Eagle totem Barbarian, Custom Luchador Fighter and an Evocation Wizard.

Race: Half-elf (High Elf)

HP: 76

STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
18 10 14 13 9 20

Fighting Style: Defense

Weapons: Longsword/Shield, Lance, Halberd and Javelins

Playstyle: Currently mainly using Sword and Shield as my AC is too low to tank without a shield (AC 17, in the campaign money is really really scarce and i can't even afford splint mail).

Feats I am considering (but other suggestions are appreciated!):

- Shield Master
- Polearm mastery
- Sentinel
- Inspiring Leader
- Mounted Combatant

Or, ASI:
+2 Con
(I feel that I would be quite satisfied with +4 strength)


Currently do not have plans on what to take up at higher levels, any recommendations or theory crafting would be greatly appreciated. The DM did mentioned that the campaign would be expected to run till the characters reach level 20. (We have been playing for a bout a year or so now from Level 1)

[Agthor]

@Yruil you got 20 charisma and play in a very low gear campaign. I suggest you take the spell sniper feat and grab eldritch blast and later the new tasha feat allowing warlock invokation adding charisma. Maybe also multiclass to sorcerer and take the shield spell. Freeze the enemy with fear, cast spirit shroud and edritch blast them.

[Hellpyre]

With 4 frontliners (including yourself) I would highly suggest Inspiring Leader, even though it may not benefit the Moon Druid as much as the rest of the party, depending on how the DM rules temp hit points interact with Wild Shape. Otherwise, the +CON is always going to be solid.

[arnin77]

@Yruil I am also playing a level 7 Conquest Paladin. Also sword and board. I think the biggest thing to consider is how you play your character vs how you want to play it. From what I’m seeing, you might want to consider with a lower AC is more HPs. (+2 Con)

This would allow you to get more 7 hps, get your con save from +7 to +8 (you could keep shield of faith up easier or bless/fear etc) as well as get your hps/level from 1d10+2 to 1d10+3 which would help with dice rolling at each level.

By process of elimination: if you’re staying sword and board, then pole arm master isn’t really required next level, if another tank in your party has sentinel then you don’t necessarily need that since you can’t use it on a character with sentinel, inspiring leader is nice but you have access to the spell aid, mounted combatant probably depends on how often you’ll use find steed or be able to purchase a horse (maybe not great in small spaces like caves and dungeons?), shield master would be good and help dex saves but you would already have +5 because of your charisma and 1d4 on top if you are running bless so it would depend if you’re staying sword and board or not.

Hope this helps!

[Deathtongue]

Resilient: Constitution or Warcaster. You're at the level where you do not want to be dropping concentration due to nuisance damage, and while a +7 to Constitution saving throws ain't bad a 10% chance to lose a spell when you're hit by any amount of damage is close to unacceptable for a frontliner who relies on concentration spells for their effectiveness. As far as Warcaster v. Resilient CON though, even with your even Constitution stat you're also at the level where CON-saving throw effects start getting really nasty. Having a +10 to Constitution saving throws is a huge deal to avoid crap like poison, dragon's breath, blasphemous word, Blindness/Deafness, soforth.

[GoodGulfGas]

Here is a good breakdown of Resilient CON vs. War Caster:

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...the-chances-of

I would say that War Caster is better for the Conquest Paladin because of the Paladin's Aura of Protection is similar to Resilient CON. But hell, you could do both! Why not?

[Sception]

The main reason why not is that conquest is a very stat intensive build and thus doesn't have a lot of room for feats. Spending one to shore up your concentration saves is a good idea, but more then that is overcomitting a very limited resource.

...

So, Tasha's is out, what useful bits do people see as relevant for conquest builds?

Obviously the racial customization rules are a big deal for such a MAD build, opening up a lot of strong options that previously were hard to justify due to stat mismatch. I think all the previous top tier conquest races are still top tier, including vuman, half elf, fallen Aasimar, Triton (in aquatic games) and Winter Eladrin (for dexadins), but if tasha variation is in play you can add to that list yuan-ti, winged variant tieflings, mountain dwarves, grey dwarves in underdark games, winter eladrins for non-dexadins, complete custom origin for hex dip builds, etc. furthermore, all racial options are brought up to at least mid tier, as long as you can shift your racial bonuses to some mus of str-or-dex, cha, & maybe con you're solid. The only race to suffer with tasha's is eberron changelings in hex dipped builds as errata now prevents them from stacking +3 to charisma.

The paladin class feature variants & additions are welcome though not directly relevant to conquering. The option to use channel divinity to refresh spell slots is very nice for oaths with lackluster CDs, but conquering presence is great for us and should see early and frequent use such that we'll rarely have an unused CD to burn on slots during adventuring days.

The new combat styles don't directly aid in frightening foes, but they are quite nice and generally more interesting than defense style, even if defense is still very useful. Short range blind fighting can be very strong, though, while the option to burn a reaction to mitigate damage to an adjacent ally is a nice tanking option, like a more reliable version of protection style. And the cantrip option can add an adequate ranged fallback and guidance as a super utility option, very worth considering if no one in the party can cast guidance otherwise.

The new spells also don't help with frightening, but warding bond is a useful tanking option while spirit shroud and summon celestial are strong, spell-slot-efficient options for your concentration when confronted with fear immune enemies.

Eloquence bard with its ability to use bardic inspiration dicd to debuff enemy saves stands out as easily the best bard school multiclass option. Granted it's not new with tasha, but was previously in a setting specific book so some players might not have seen or had access to it. Still probably not as strong a multiclass option as sorcerer, but a solid option all the same.

Clockwork Sorcerer also stands out as, if not the outright best sorcerer subclass for a multiclassing conqueror, then at least neck and neck with divine soul. The key feature comes right at first level, letting you use your reaction to cancel advantage or disadvantage for a nearby creature proficiency mod times per day. IME, spell resistance can be an even bigger hassle for conquerors than outright immunity to frighten, and for even one level of sorcerer this lets you cancel it out several times per day.

Another change is the new, self targeting version of booming blade. While there is some debate, the general reading seems to be that it no longer works as an opportunity attack with warcaster, which is a definite downgrade for those conquerors who are able to pick it up via multiclassing or other methods. It still has some application as soft control fir tanking, but I wouldn't go out if mh way to pick it up anymore, and without it resilient con starts looking more attractive relative to warcaster as a concentration fixer.

Though, if you're dipping two levels into hexblade (still far and away the best lock patton for multiclassing conquerors), you may not need to burn any feats on concentration, as there's now an invocation for that. However, if you're dipping three or more levels of warlock you might still want to spend a feat instead, as there are several other solid invocation options, especially for chain boon.

Artificer is not really an ideal multiclass option, but if you have one in the party, try to acquire proficiency in a woodwind instrument on the off chance you can convince them to toss you a set of pipes of haunting via the 'emulate item' infusion.

Speaking of magic items, thete are a few of interest. The amulet of the devout, presented as a fairly standard cleric/paladin item so if your dm is at all generous with items you have a decent shot at landing one, ups the save dc of all your spells, which is already amazing for us. It also improves spell attack rolls, which isn't as big for us but still useful with spiritual weapon, and gives you a free extra use of your channel divinity per day, which is fantastic for conquerors. Definitely way up there with gauntlets/belts of strength, magic weapons & armor, and fear causing items on conqueror wish lists.

Multiclass sorcerers also could potentially gain access to a shadowfell shard, allowing you to impose disadvantage on one target of a spell you cast whenever you cast a spell with metamagic. Cast heightened fear to force disadvantage on two targets at once, or cast careful fear to effectively heighten for 1/3 the price while making the spell party friendly, or quickened fear for 2/3 cost heightened fear as a bonus action. The disadvantage applies to skill checks and saves of a chosen stat (obv you pick the stat your spell is going to make them roll a save against, prob wisdom), and it lasts till the end of your next turn, so if the pass their save anyway you can try again. Amazing.

Alternatively, a far realm shard allows a sorcerer to force a cha save vs some damage & frighten against a nearby target whenever they use metamagic. Single target and only lasts a round, but on being on a coveted cha save is very nice. Not quite as good as the shadow shard, imo, but still quite nice, and if your dm is likely to toss either of these shards to your party, you should definitely consider multiclassing out into sorcerer at some point in your career.

The last thing i've looked at are the feats, and the mist notable thing to me is that there are now solid half-cha feat options for non-elves, the best of which is fey touched, which grants +1 cha (or int or wis, but for us cha), plus misty step and a first level enchantment or divination of your choice, both of which can be cast for free once per day and via normal spell slots. Adding a teleportation spell to your toolbox is very nice, doing ut whike advancing your cga binus for any +2 cha race (now potentially any race) is fantastic. May be a bit trickey to work in from a narrative angle, though.

Sadly the shadow touched version has been changed from darkness (which would have been a nice option with the new blindfight style) to invisibility.


All in all, not huge changes for conquerors, especially single classed, but still some nice bits to work with. I'm still hoping that ua undead warlock makes it into a future publication, though.

[DevanAvalon]

The main reason why not is that conquest is a very stat intensive build and thus doesn't have a lot of room for feats. Spending one to shore up your concentration saves is a good idea, but more then that is overcomitting a very limited resource.

...

So, Tasha's is out, what useful bits do people see as relevant for conquest builds?

Obviously the racial customization rules are a big deal for such a MAD build, opening up a lot of strong options that previously were hard to justify due to stat mismatch. I think all the previous top tier conquest races are still top tier, including vuman, half elf, fallen Aasimar, Triton (in aquatic games) and Winter Eladrin (for dexadins), but if tasha variation is in play you can add to that list yuan-ti, winged variant tieflings, mountain dwarves, grey dwarves in underdark games, winter eladrins for non-dexadins, complete custom origin for hex dip builds, etc. furthermore, all racial options are brought up to at least mid tier, as long as you can shift your racial bonuses to some mus of str-or-dex, cha, & maybe con you're solid. The only race to suffer with tasha's is eberron changelings in hex dipped builds as errata now prevents them from stacking +3 to charisma.

The paladin class feature variants & additions are welcome though not directly relevant to conquering. The option to use channel divinity to refresh spell slots is very nice for oaths with lackluster CDs, but conquering presence is great for us and should see early and frequent use such that we'll rarely have an unused CD to burn on slots during adventuring days.

The new combat styles don't directly aid in frightening foes, but they are quite nice and generally more interesting than defense style, even if defense is still very useful. Short range blind fighting can be very strong, though, while the option to burn a reaction to mitigate damage to an adjacent ally is a nice tanking option, like a more reliable version of protection style. And the cantrip option can add an adequate ranged fallback and guidance as a super utility option, very worth considering if no one in the party can cast guidance otherwise.

The new spells also don't help with frightening, but warding bond is a useful tanking option while spirit shroud and summon celestial are strong, spell-slot-efficient options for your concentration when confronted with fear immune enemies.

Eloquence bard with its ability to use bardic inspiration dicd to debuff enemy saves stands out as easily the best bard school multiclass option. Granted it's not new with tasha, but was previously in a setting specific book so some players might not have seen or had access to it. Still probably not as strong a multiclass option as sorcerer, but a solid option all the same.

Clockwork Sorcerer also stands out as, if not the outright best sorcerer subclass for a multiclassing conqueror, then at least neck and neck with divine soul. The key feature comes right at first level, letting you use your reaction to cancel advantage or disadvantage for a nearby creature proficiency mod times per day. IME, spell resistance can be an even bigger hassle for conquerors than outright immunity to frighten, and for even one level of sorcerer this lets you cancel it out several times per day.

Another change is the new, self targeting version of booming blade. While there is some debate, the general reading seems to be that it no longer works as an opportunity attack with warcaster, which is a definite downgrade for those conquerors who are able to pick it up via multiclassing or other methods. It still has some application as soft control fir tanking, but I wouldn't go out if mh way to pick it up anymore, and without it resilient con starts looking more attractive relative to warcaster as a concentration fixer.

Though, if you're dipping two levels into hexblade (still far and away the best lock patton for multiclassing conquerors), you may not need to burn any feats on concentration, as there's now an invocation for that. However, if you're dipping three or more levels of warlock you might still want to spend a feat instead, as there are several other solid invocation options, especially for chain boon.

Artificer is not really an ideal multiclass option, but if you have one in the party, try to acquire proficiency in a woodwind instrument on the off chance you can convince them to toss you a set of pipes of haunting via the 'emulate item' infusion.

Speaking of magic items, thete are a few of interest. The amulet of the devout, presented as a fairly standard cleric/paladin item so if your dm is at all generous with items you have a decent shot at landing one, ups the save dc of all your spells, which is already amazing for us. It also improves spell attack rolls, which isn't as big for us but still useful with spiritual weapon, and gives you a free extra use of your channel divinity per day, which is fantastic for conquerors. Definitely way up there with gauntlets/belts of strength, magic weapons & armor, and fear causing items on conqueror wish lists.

Multiclass sorcerers also could potentially gain access to a shadowfell shard, allowing you to impose disadvantage on one target of a spell you cast whenever you cast a spell with metamagic. Cast heightened fear to force disadvantage on two targets at once, or cast careful fear to effectively heighten for 1/3 the price while making the spell party friendly, or quickened fear for 2/3 cost heightened fear as a bonus action. The disadvantage applies to skill checks and saves of a chosen stat (obv you pick the stat your spell is going to make them roll a save against, prob wisdom), and it lasts till the end of your next turn, so if the pass their save anyway you can try again. Amazing.

Alternatively, a far realm shard allows a sorcerer to force a cha save vs some damage & frighten against a nearby target whenever they use metamagic. Single target and only lasts a round, but on being on a coveted cha save is very nice. Not quite as good as the shadow shard, imo, but still quite nice, and if your dm is likely to toss either of these shards to your party, you should definitely consider multiclassing out into sorcerer at some point in your career.

The last thing i've looked at are the feats, and the mist notable thing to me is that there are now solid half-cha feat options for non-elves, the best of which is fey touched, which grants +1 cha (or int or wis, but for us cha), plus misty step and a first level enchantment or divination of your choice, both of which can be cast for free once per day and via normal spell slots. Adding a teleportation spell to your toolbox is very nice, doing ut whike advancing your cga binus for any +2 cha race (now potentially any race) is fantastic. May be a bit trickey to work in from a narrative angle, though.

Sadly the shadow touched version has been changed from darkness (which would have been a nice option with the new blindfight style) to invisibility.


All in all, not huge changes for conquerors, especially single classed, but still some nice bits to work with. I'm still hoping that ua undead warlock makes it into a future publication, though.

Booming Blade still can be War Castered because Range =/= Target. your RANGE is range of self, but you are only TARGETING one creature (the one that would proc an AoO). Per Jeremy Crawford: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/...96181560942593

[Sception]

Booming Blade still can be War Castered because Range =/= Target. your RANGE is range of self, but you are only TARGETING one creature (the one that would proc an AoO). Per Jeremy Crawford: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/...96181560942593

Hrm. I'm willing to roll with that in my own games, though I expect it to stay relatively contentious until it makes it into a sage advice at least.

In that case, booming blade + warcaster remains a very strong option for conquerors to pick up if they aren't able to grab sentinel early on in their progression, and stays a strong additional incentive to dip into hexblade or sorcerer for at least one level.

...

Thoughts on any other content in Tasha's as it might relate to conquest builds?

[Chthonos]

The main reason why not is that conquest is a very stat intensive build and thus doesn't have a lot of room for feats. Spending one to shore up your concentration saves is a good idea, but more then that is overcomitting a very limited resource.

...

So, Tasha's is out, what useful bits do people see as relevant for conquest builds?

Obviously the racial customization rules are a big deal for such a MAD build, opening up a lot of strong options that previously were hard to justify due to stat mismatch. I think all the previous top tier conquest races are still top tier, including vuman, half elf, fallen Aasimar, Triton (in aquatic games) and Winter Eladrin (for dexadins), but if tasha variation is in play you can add to that list yuan-ti, winged variant tieflings, mountain dwarves, grey dwarves in underdark games, winter eladrins for non-dexadins, complete custom origin for hex dip builds, etc. furthermore, all racial options are brought up to at least mid tier, as long as you can shift your racial bonuses to some mus of str-or-dex, cha, & maybe con you're solid. The only race to suffer with tasha's is eberron changelings in hex dipped builds as errata now prevents them from stacking +3 to charisma.

The paladin class feature variants & additions are welcome though not directly relevant to conquering. The option to use channel divinity to refresh spell slots is very nice for oaths with lackluster CDs, but conquering presence is great for us and should see early and frequent use such that we'll rarely have an unused CD to burn on slots during adventuring days.

The new combat styles don't directly aid in frightening foes, but they are quite nice and generally more interesting than defense style, even if defense is still very useful. Short range blind fighting can be very strong, though, while the option to burn a reaction to mitigate damage to an adjacent ally is a nice tanking option, like a more reliable version of protection style. And the cantrip option can add an adequate ranged fallback and guidance as a super utility option, very worth considering if no one in the party can cast guidance otherwise.

The new spells also don't help with frightening, but warding bond is a useful tanking option while spirit shroud and summon celestial are strong, spell-slot-efficient options for your concentration when confronted with fear immune enemies.

Eloquence bard with its ability to use bardic inspiration dicd to debuff enemy saves stands out as easily the best bard school multiclass option. Granted it's not new with tasha, but was previously in a setting specific book so some players might not have seen or had access to it. Still probably not as strong a multiclass option as sorcerer, but a solid option all the same.

Clockwork Sorcerer also stands out as, if not the outright best sorcerer subclass for a multiclassing conqueror, then at least neck and neck with divine soul. The key feature comes right at first level, letting you use your reaction to cancel advantage or disadvantage for a nearby creature proficiency mod times per day. IME, spell resistance can be an even bigger hassle for conquerors than outright immunity to frighten, and for even one level of sorcerer this lets you cancel it out several times per day.

Another change is the new, self targeting version of booming blade. While there is some debate, the general reading seems to be that it no longer works as an opportunity attack with warcaster, which is a definite downgrade for those conquerors who are able to pick it up via multiclassing or other methods. It still has some application as soft control fir tanking, but I wouldn't go out if mh way to pick it up anymore, and without it resilient con starts looking more attractive relative to warcaster as a concentration fixer.

Though, if you're dipping two levels into hexblade (still far and away the best lock patton for multiclassing conquerors), you may not need to burn any feats on concentration, as there's now an invocation for that. However, if you're dipping three or more levels of warlock you might still want to spend a feat instead, as there are several other solid invocation options, especially for chain boon.

Artificer is not really an ideal multiclass option, but if you have one in the party, try to acquire proficiency in a woodwind instrument on the off chance you can convince them to toss you a set of pipes of haunting via the 'emulate item' infusion.

Speaking of magic items, thete are a few of interest. The amulet of the devout, presented as a fairly standard cleric/paladin item so if your dm is at all generous with items you have a decent shot at landing one, ups the save dc of all your spells, which is already amazing for us. It also improves spell attack rolls, which isn't as big for us but still useful with spiritual weapon, and gives you a free extra use of your channel divinity per day, which is fantastic for conquerors. Definitely way up there with gauntlets/belts of strength, magic weapons & armor, and fear causing items on conqueror wish lists.

Multiclass sorcerers also could potentially gain access to a shadowfell shard, allowing you to impose disadvantage on one target of a spell you cast whenever you cast a spell with metamagic. Cast heightened fear to force disadvantage on two targets at once, or cast careful fear to effectively heighten for 1/3 the price while making the spell party friendly, or quickened fear for 2/3 cost heightened fear as a bonus action. The disadvantage applies to skill checks and saves of a chosen stat (obv you pick the stat your spell is going to make them roll a save against, prob wisdom), and it lasts till the end of your next turn, so if the pass their save anyway you can try again. Amazing.

Alternatively, a far realm shard allows a sorcerer to force a cha save vs some damage & frighten against a nearby target whenever they use metamagic. Single target and only lasts a round, but on being on a coveted cha save is very nice. Not quite as good as the shadow shard, imo, but still quite nice, and if your dm is likely to toss either of these shards to your party, you should definitely consider multiclassing out into sorcerer at some point in your career.

The last thing i've looked at are the feats, and the mist notable thing to me is that there are now solid half-cha feat options for non-elves, the best of which is fey touched, which grants +1 cha (or int or wis, but for us cha), plus misty step and a first level enchantment or divination of your choice, both of which can be cast for free once per day and via normal spell slots. Adding a teleportation spell to your toolbox is very nice, doing ut whike advancing your cga binus for any +2 cha race (now potentially any race) is fantastic. May be a bit trickey to work in from a narrative angle, though.

Sadly the shadow touched version has been changed from darkness (which would have been a nice option with the new blindfight style) to invisibility.


All in all, not huge changes for conquerors, especially single classed, but still some nice bits to work with. I'm still hoping that ua undead warlock makes it into a future publication, though.

In my current campaign I'm playing a Dragonborn Conqueror, level 6 at the moment, and I'm planning on doing a Hexblade dip, at least 3 levels. The one thing that caught my eye was the new Warlock cantrip, Mind Sliver. I know it's less damage than Eldritch Blast, but it's the secondary effect that is of most potential value, the minus 1d4 to the target's next saving throw, which for Conquerors should be some fear effect. Thoughts on this little combo?

[Sception]

It's decent, but unless you're also multiclassing sorcerer for quicken, you'll have to wait until the next turn to force the save you actually care about. So you're delayung the frighten ability, when you really want to be locking down fies asap, and the penalty might trigger before your next turn anyway.

Again, it's a decent tool to have in your toolbox, and i wouldn't say you're making a mistake by taking it, but don't let it trick you into saving a Fear or Conquering Presence for the second round of combat if you could have caught multiple enemies with it in the first. Rather than setting up for your own frighten effects, I'd mostly use it to set up frighten immune or sky-high-wis-save enemies for non-frighten or non-wis-save based cc effects from other party members.

Again, unless you're a sorcerer and can cast it on the same turn as Fear or Conquering Presence via quicken.

[nyr199435]

Hello everyone! New to the forum, so go easy on the new guy please! :-)

I've been reading this thread over and over trying to decide on feats. Our DM has a homebrew rule that allows both ASIs and feats simultaneously, however any feats you take that would give you an ASI do not come with that ASI. So if a feat would increase your CON by 1 point, you don't get that (which is only fair since you're still getting the ASIs anyway).

I'm a Scourge Aasimar running sword and board build. Plan is to tank damage and do battlefield control. I have plate mail, plus Arrow-Catching Shield, plus Defense fighting style. AC for all attacks is 21, ranged is 23 thanks to the shield. In my mind, I have this image of locking down the battlefield with Conquering Presence/Aura of Conquest, then doing AOE damage from that plus Radiant Consumption (Scourge Aasimar racial ability). So at Level 4, I took Shield Master for the shove. Movement speed zero + prone = not getting up. Mentally, I see myself patrolling the battlefield knocking guys down, keeping them there, and dealing AOE all the while.

Just recently reached Level 8 and am STRUGGLING with what feat to take. My DM allows both Angelic Protection (the XGE Bonus Racial Feat, which is UA), as well as the Menacing UA Skill feat (I know, my DM is pretty agreeable). I really can't decide where to go from here. Our last big fight I single-handedly kept everyone alive thanks to my AC and Shield Master (kept dodging Fireballs that were wiping everyone else out). That makes me feel like I should focus on tanking damage (Tough, Angelic Protection, etc.). But Menacing is REALLY hard to pass up with Shield Master. I'm already proficient in Intimidation and would gain expertise. Starting with a base +11 to Intimidation checks, which will be +13 at Level 9. I can take the attack action, demoralize someone, strike with my sword, shield master shove bonus action, and repeat. It's awesome because there's no limit on uses, no spell slots required, etc.

Then again, everyone says either War Caster or Resilient are a must for Oath of Conquest. Sentinel seems to be one of the most highly recommended feats, but I wouldn't be using it in conjunction with Polearm Master due to sword and board build. Plus, my DM thinks reducing the movement speed to 0 without limits for size of the enemy is nonsense. His feeling is there is no reason why Sentinel should stop a Huge creature in its tracks, so he reserves the right to tell us it didn't work. That's something to consider in choosing whether to take Sentinel. Lucky is just awesome for everyone, no matter the class. I haven't had any issues with concentration saves yet, and I find myself burning most spell slots on Divine Smites anyway.

Any input would be much appreciated!!!

[Corran]

Just recently reached Level 8 and am STRUGGLING with what feat to take. My DM allows both Angelic Protection (the XGE Bonus Racial Feat, which is UA), as well as the Menacing UA Skill feat (I know, my DM is pretty agreeable).

Menacing is not a bad feat for conquest paladins, but beware of its limitations. You can use it only against humanoids IIRC, and it generally works best against (humanoid) enemies that have a strong damage output (so against the kind of enemy you'd be inclined to smite). When/if you reach paladin 11 and take IDS, you'll start feeling the opportunity cost even more. It can still be a useful thing to have (for a backup short duration battlefield control option against 1 or 2 humanoids per turn), and with the houserule you are playing I would consider picking it up, though later on in the campain, and assuming that humanoid creatures are still a relevant threat (which is not unlikely at all, though it would depend on the campaign).

Then again, everyone says either War Caster or Resilient are a must for Oath of Conquest.
...
I haven't had any issues with concentration saves yet, and I find myself burning most spell slots on Divine Smites anyway.

Yep. You need to boost these concentration saves. Wrathful smite and later on fear, are both great spells for a conquest paladin. When they are doing good work for you, you need to be certain that concentration will hold. Warcaster if you are dipping in an arcane caster, res con otherwise. Metamagic adept sounds interesting (which reminds me...), though I'd go for the concentration boost first.

==================================

@Malisteen: ... thoughts on metamagic adept (careful, extended) for a conqueror? Sounds interesting, though it loses some steam after the aura expansion at pal18. What do you think?

[arnin77]

If you pick up shield and/or endure elements via multiclass or otherwise, then warcaster is probably a must for sword & board conquerors, yeah. Otherwise, it's not a must have, but you will eventually want something to shore up concentration saves, if not war caster then resilient con, or maybe lucky.

I took resilient con at level 1 so my con saves are pretty sweet right now, I just feel bad because i keep casting spiritual weapon after lighting my flametongue and forgetting I need to have a free hand. My DM doesn't seem too worried about it but it's probably unfair for people who are taking warcaster to use a shield or are using a 2H weapon? Is there a good way to balance the action economy needed for this? Thanks!

[Witty Username]

I took resilient con at level 1 so my con saves are pretty sweet right now, I just feel bad because i keep casting spiritual weapon after lighting my flametongue and forgetting I need to have a free hand. My DM doesn't seem too worried about it but it's probably unfair for people who are taking warcaster to use a shield or are using a 2H weapon? Is there a good way to balance the action economy needed for this? Thanks!

If the DM and the other players don't have a problem then you don't have a problem. I thought 2H was fine because of grip change being too small to worry about, but that sounds like a tangent.

[Sception]

If your DM lets it fly, don't worry about it. When I DM I won't bother much with that stuff, it's just too fiddly imo. Warcaster is still a good feat for the other benefits - advantage on concentration saves and casting spells on opportunity attacks, particularly on characters with booming blade. Personally, I would still take warcaster on most of my multiclass conquerors even in games where the DM didn't bother tracking hands for spell components.

[Samayu]

Thanks for the guide! It helped. I'm playing a Conquest Hexadin as a battlefield controller.

We started at L5, right now I've got Pal 4/Hexblade 2. From here I'm going to run Paladin up to L8 and then go for more short rest spell slots. STR 15, CHA 18. Sword & Board and +1 plate for AC21. Protection fighting style plus Sentinel. Grasp of Hadar to pull the attackers off the squishies. (And Devil's Sight because V-human underground.) Conquering Presence is awesome for controlling a big group, of course.

Protection overlaps a bit with Sentinel, which I usually prefer not to do, but it allows more versatility in protecting teammates. If my ally is vulnerable, I'll impose disadvantage, otherwise take the AoO.

So first of all, I have the luxury of not being the main damage dealer because we have a very large party. We started out with a monk and a druidarian as martials, along with an arcane cleric, lore bard and chronurgist wizard. With those two martials always running up to engage the enemy, I needed to stay back and protect the spellcasters. But last week we picked up an eldritch knight, so that puts even less pressure on me to deal damage. And the cleric's the healer, so... I assist where necessary. Defend, smite, heal, whatever!

[nyr199435]

Menacing is not a bad feat for conquest paladins, but beware of its limitations. You can use it only against humanoids IIRC, and it generally works best against (humanoid) enemies that have a strong damage output (so against the kind of enemy you'd be inclined to smite). When/if you reach paladin 11 and take IDS, you'll start feeling the opportunity cost even more. It can still be a useful thing to have (for a backup short duration battlefield control option against 1 or 2 humanoids per turn), and with the houserule you are playing I would consider picking it up, though later on in the campain, and assuming that humanoid creatures are still a relevant threat (which is not unlikely at all, though it would depend on the campaign).


Yep. You need to boost these concentration saves. Wrathful smite and later on fear, are both great spells for a conquest paladin. When they are doing good work for you, you need to be certain that concentration will hold. Warcaster if you are dipping in an arcane caster, res con otherwise. Metamagic adept sounds interesting (which reminds me...), though I'd go for the concentration boost first.

==================================

@Malisteen: ... thoughts on metamagic adept (careful, extended) for a conqueror? Sounds interesting, though it loses some steam after the aura expansion at pal18. What do you think?

Thank you for the thoughtful and thorough response! I see now that I will get Fear as an oath spell after one more level (I'm halfway through Level 8 at the moment). Maybe it's time to start thinking about those concentration saves.

But War Caster or Resilient over Angelic Protection or Tough? When I'm, ostensibly, the party tank? Agree with maybe saving Menacing for later on. I'm also considering a dip into Hexblade for one level instead of taking Oath of Conquest all the way to the capstone, though Invincible Conqueror seems like one of the best capstones in the game. I just know that most campaigns end long before Level 20 for whatever reason (usually before Level 10, for that matter), so it seems like I would get way more use out of the multiclassing after Level 9 than waiting for Invincible Conqueror. There seems to be a split on how many levels you need in Hexblade though. I think I only need one, especially since I have to make it to Level 18 for the expanded Aura of Protection and Aura of Conquest, and the second level in Hexblade wouldn't really do anything for me.

[Kri]

So I have my own question regarding a cantrip for this oath. If you multiclass or take magic initiate or any other way of gaining a cantrip. How do you guys think Lightning Lure would do on a conquest Paladin? Maxing out Charisma means the DC for the strength save will be maxed (If you gain the spell from the sorcerer spell list) meaning you can pull any pesky frightened opponents just out of reach into your Aura potentially locking them down while also dealing a bit of damage to boot. What do you think?

[RainInTheWoods]

I've pretty well sold myself on the idea of running a dragonborn Hexblade 2/Conqueror X as my next character.
Starting stats are likely going to be 15/10/14/8/10/17

Figure level progression would go paladin>warlock>paladin up to 9th level.
First ASI would be Dragon Fear to bump charisma to 18 and get that delicious roar.
Second ASI would be to max charisma.
Level 10 would be the second warlock level, and taking Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Mind for reliable range damage and reliable concentration saves, after all the fun auras are active. He'd have a +7 con save at that point, so advantage would make for very very reliable saves to keep spells up.

If there's magic items I'd be hoping for him to get, it'd be the two goodies for cleric and paladin from Tasha's
Amulet of the Devout: Boost the DC for spells and get an extra use of channel divinity
Devotee's Censer: While it lacks a to hit bonus, it's effectively a 2d8 weapon, having a mini-smite built in to every hit. Also, it'd offer healing to those nearby. If you frighten a crowd, you'd be able to activate the censer and act as a rallying point for allies, while enemies can't approach to get the healing themselves.
Since this guy would have Eldritch Blast, he'd be totally okay if enemies don't want to get close.

My only hangup on this character is what type dragonborn?
Base would have the damage resistance.
Draconblood would be better at being a face.
Ravenite would be able to lash out at attackers.
The latter two would have dark vision.

[Sception]

If you're using sword & board on a hexadin, then you'll want war caster to have access to the Shield spell and Booming Blade as an opportunity attack. Which delays maxing your charisma but also frees up an invocation.

I'm not a big fan of dragon fear on conquerors, as it has some annoying anti-synergy with aura if conquest. Yeah, it's better than the breath weapon, but due to that anti-synergy it usn't enough better that I ferl it's worth a feat, or even a half fear. If you can work any sort of Fey connection into your character concept, fey touched is probably a better half cha feat for you, what with nabbing misty step to help with a conqueror's itherwise lacking mobility.

Even if you don't want to take fey touched, you might prefer Actor over dragon fear, provided you take my advice regarding Warcaster, as it works particularly well with the mask of many faces invocation, which you might then take instead of the concentration save one.

But if you can't make a fey theme fit (which could be hard on top of dragon and conquest and hexblade), and you aren't interested in actor shenanigans, then dragon fear is fine. Just be aware of its problems with aura of conquest, ie enemies basically have to two cgances to save out of it before suffering any signufucant negative effects.

The wildmont dragonborn are setting specific and may not be available to you. In general, I prefer regular dragonborn anyway, prefering a oassive resistance to a once per rest reprisal or cha skill buff. Probably red for fire resistance and an imperious attitude, unless the campaign is likely to make another damage type more common. But as ling as Tasha's stat swapoing is in place, any of them are ok.

[RainInTheWoods]

Hm, noted.
Well, there's plenty of half-feats.
Skill Expert really wouldn't be bad either.
Bump charisma, take expertise in athletics, persuasion, or intimidation, and get another desired skill.
For Fey Touched, I'd probably pick Gift of Alacrity. It patches up that meh initiative modifier.

The gist for what's allowed/disallowed in this setting is 'if it's official, it's probably allowed.'
Acquisitions Incorporated, grung, locathah, and the lucky feat not withstanding, everything else is on the table.

[nyr199435]

Hello everyone! New to the forum, so go easy on the new guy please! :-)

I've been reading this thread over and over trying to decide on feats. Our DM has a homebrew rule that allows both ASIs and feats simultaneously, however any feats you take that would give you an ASI do not come with that ASI. So if a feat would increase your CON by 1 point, you don't get that (which is only fair since you're still getting the ASIs anyway).

I'm a Scourge Aasimar running sword and board build. Plan is to tank damage and do battlefield control. I have plate mail, plus Arrow-Catching Shield, plus Defense fighting style. AC for all attacks is 21, ranged is 23 thanks to the shield. In my mind, I have this image of locking down the battlefield with Conquering Presence/Aura of Conquest, then doing AOE damage from that plus Radiant Consumption (Scourge Aasimar racial ability). So at Level 4, I took Shield Master for the shove. Movement speed zero + prone = not getting up. Mentally, I see myself patrolling the battlefield knocking guys down, keeping them there, and dealing AOE all the while.

Just recently reached Level 8 and am STRUGGLING with what feat to take. My DM allows both Angelic Protection (the XGE Bonus Racial Feat, which is UA), as well as the Menacing UA Skill feat (I know, my DM is pretty agreeable). I really can't decide where to go from here. Our last big fight I single-handedly kept everyone alive thanks to my AC and Shield Master (kept dodging Fireballs that were wiping everyone else out). That makes me feel like I should focus on tanking damage (Tough, Angelic Protection, etc.). But Menacing is REALLY hard to pass up with Shield Master. I'm already proficient in Intimidation and would gain expertise. Starting with a base +11 to Intimidation checks, which will be +13 at Level 9. I can take the attack action, demoralize someone, strike with my sword, shield master shove bonus action, and repeat. It's awesome because there's no limit on uses, no spell slots required, etc.

Then again, everyone says either War Caster or Resilient are a must for Oath of Conquest. Sentinel seems to be one of the most highly recommended feats, but I wouldn't be using it in conjunction with Polearm Master due to sword and board build. Plus, my DM thinks reducing the movement speed to 0 without limits for size of the enemy is nonsense. His feeling is there is no reason why Sentinel should stop a Huge creature in its tracks, so he reserves the right to tell us it didn't work. That's something to consider in choosing whether to take Sentinel. Lucky is just awesome for everyone, no matter the class. I haven't had any issues with concentration saves yet, and I find myself burning most spell slots on Divine Smites anyway.

Any input would be much appreciated!!!

Hey everyone! Thanks again for the input. My DM informed the party that everyone was supposed to take a feat at Level 1 as part of his variant rule. As a reminder, he allows both ASI's and feats, and when you get them depends on your character level, not class level, unless you're in a class that grants more ASIs and feats (e.g., fighter), in which case you get them whenever the class says.

He's all about empowering players so this creates a lot of options. My Charisma is already at 20 thanks to Aasimar +2. With his announcement about the Level 1 thing, my strength is now at 19 and my CON is at 20 (thanks to Scourge).

As a reminder, I'm running Sword and Board build with Shield Master. I am focusing on battlefield control and tanking damage. My HP at Level 8 is now 97 and my AC is 21 (23 for ranged attacks due to Arrow Catching Shield).

I have decided to multiclass into Hexblade. Planning on taking Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast (to have some ranged utility, which I don't currently beyond hurling javelins) as my cantrips. Based on this, I'm going to take War Caster as my level 1 feat instead of Resilient (may take Resilient later once proficiency bonus goes up).

Looking for input on Level 8 feat. In consideration are Lucky, Heavy Armor Master, Menacing (UA), and Tough (my hit die will be smaller for Hexblade levels and, like I said, I'm focusing on being the party tank), but I'm open to suggestions.

Our DM's variant rule does not allow the ASIs that come with feats since you're getting the ASI from the character level regardless. He also said that certain feats, like Tough, can be taken more than once.

My questions are:
(1) Do you agree with War Caster, and what Level 8 feat would you take? Is there something that synergizes well with the conquest battlefield lockdown + Radiant Consumption AOE?
(2) Should I wait until Level 9 to multiclass so I get access to the Fear spell? If I take Menacing feat and only do one level in Hexblade, I could probably get by. Obviously it gets exponentially harder to level up the higher you go.
(3) How many levels do I take in Hexblade? My DM said he doesn't see a need for anything other than Level 1, but I'm seeing stuff about Eldritch Invocations, Pact Weapon, Shield spell, etc.

For what it's worth, he's not capping the campaign at Level 20, so in theory I will eventually get Invincible Conqueror regardless, albeit not for a VERY long time. This also means that if I take 3 levels in Hexblade, I can still get expanded Auras at Level 18 in Paladin.

Thanks!!

[Sception]

@Malisteen: ... thoughts on metamagic adept (careful, extended) for a conqueror? Sounds interesting, though it loses some steam after the aura expansion at pal18. What do you think?

eh, the big metamagics for conqueror are heighten and quicken, and both cost too many sorcery points to get much use out of with just the feat. Careful is ok, but if you're going to get to paladin 10 aura of courage should solve most of your targeting issues. Extended.... 1 minute is going to last you nearly all fights anyway.

It's not a terrible feat in principle, but I think there's too much pressure on a conqueror's ASIs to justify it. Maybe if you're multiclassing sorcerer already, as a way to get a couple extra sorcery points.


The big feat in Tasha's to me is fey touched. Mobility is an issue for conquerors, and fey touched gets you misty step, with a free use per day. You can also nab hex for a spell slot efficient low level damage buff to break out when enemies are immune to frighten. All that on a half-cha feat is quite a deal for us. Unfortunately, working the fey angle into a conqueror thematically can be a bit of a stretch, but if you can make it work narratively, then it's the new clear best half cha feat.

[Greyman]

Hey everyone. New to the forum and recently started my first D&D game ever. I chose to play a conqueror cuz it seems awesome to me. This forum has been alot of help.
I'll put up some info about my Conqueror and my possible concerns and I'd love any feedback or advice.

We are early on in a Curse of Strahd campaign. Our DM has told us we will likely be going up to level 14 or 15 with this story due to some additions he has made. The rest of the party is made up of:
Asimar Twilight Cleric, Halfling Valor Bard, Satyr Wild Magic Barbarian, Tiefling Scribes Wizard and Half-orc Star Druid.

Our DM allowed us all a free feat at level 1. I chose Resilient CON. I am a half-elf and my stats stand at 16, 10, 15, 8, 10, 17 at level 2.
I currently play sword and board and I chose Interception as my fighting style over Defense or Dueling. I mostly chose that for role play purposes. He is very protective of his allies. So my intention is to build a supportive tank more so than anything else. I believe we have enough damage output on the party and Im ok using my resources to protect the party and control the battlefield.
Idk if knocking enemies prone is a great idea all the time yet but it could be.
My biggest concern is not becoming so dependent on the frightening gimmick that I become useless against enemies that are immune. Id like to be a supportive tank first and foremost that uses frighten as his main weapon but not his only way of protecting his friends.

My thoughts are that I will take +1 CHA and +1 CON at level 4 and +2 CHA at level 8 so I can get charisma up to 20 asap. Not sure what else Ill do or what magic items I might encounter but hopefully my use of spells can help me get around different threats.

[CheddarChampion]

SNIP

Cha +1 & Con +1 at level 4 is definitely good.

After level 8/after you maximize Charisma, a level or two into hexblade would be good for increasing your offense. But if you don't like it from an RP perspective, that's understandable.

Other than that Warlock MC, single classing as a Paladin will be good. Every level, except maybe 15, will do something for ya in CoS.

I would consider Shield Master and Mage Slayer for level 12 feats. Shield Master makes it easier to prone-trap enemies and Mage Slayer is good against Strahd and spellcasters. Mounted Combatant pairs well with Find Greater Steed but plenty of battles in CoS are indoors.

[Greyman]

Thank you for the advice.
Hey, does anyone know if I can use Shield Master to shove 2 creatures to the ground?
It says you make an attack as an action then you can shove as a bonus action. Well, can I shove as an attack and then shove another creature as a bonus attack?

[Quietus]

Thank you for the advice.
Hey, does anyone know if I can use Shield Master to shove 2 creatures to the ground?
It says you make an attack as an action then you can shove as a bonus action. Well, can I shove as an attack and then shove another creature as a bonus attack?

Absolutely. Shove is a special attack.