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2019-05-23, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
The spell "Heat Metal" explicitly makes the metal red hot, the state required to work with iron via traditional smithing techniques.
So would you allow the spell to allow for blacksmithing in a situation where a forge wasn't available? Or where there's no coal or charcoal to heat the metal?
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2019-05-23, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
It's expensive enough, as a level 2 spell with Concentration and a limited range and duration, so...sure, why not?
Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2019-05-23 at 12:30 PM.
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2019-05-23, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
I'd allow it, but it'd be very slow. You're using a 2nd level spell slot for 1 minute of heat. You can get some work done in that time, but not much, especially on good steel. In addition, you'd still be expected to have smithing tools (hammer, tongs, gloves, etc.), an anvil, materials for proper quenching, possibly a grinding wheel, etc, if you want to forge a quality weapon.
It's imaginative, so I'd want to reward that, but the idea of having heat available for only a few minutes a day would slow any real work down to a crawl.
Edit: In a survival situation with limited supplies, it might be worthwhile, but I wouldn't make it a super-amazing, better-than-a-real-forge option.Last edited by Tiadoppler; 2019-05-23 at 12:30 PM.
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5e Homebrew: Firearms through the ages / Academian class / Misc. Spells
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2019-05-23, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
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2019-05-23, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
Heating metal in a forge only gives you 1 minute or so of workable heat before you need to put it back in. A skilled blacksmith could absolutely turn an iron bar into a spear head during that time. You won't get a longsword or armor out of it, but you should be able to make some basic weapons.
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2019-05-23, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
I'd allow it. I really don't see any reason to NOT allow it.
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2019-05-23, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
That depends on a lot of factors (I mean a TON). If you already have a small, smooth bar of high quality steel, the size of the spearhead you want, then yes... maybe. It depends how much material you have to move (metal is hard) and what tools you have available.
If you've got a bar you need to cut? A bar that's the wrong shape and far too thick for a blade? Then no. Not even close.
Even then you just have a spear head's blade. Are you making a socket for the blade, or just tying the blade to a shaft?
On the other hand, homebrew it however you want. D&D's a game, and if you're a master blacksmith cleric of the forge casting heat metal on meteoric iron, wth do I care whether the timing's accurate. Rule of fun > accuracy (for most games, anyway)The battle cry of a true master is "RAW!!!"
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5e Homebrew: Firearms through the ages / Academian class / Misc. Spells
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2019-05-23, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
It should work, but it would take about 100x as long. You can only work the metal for a few minutes a day, depending on your level. And as others stated, you still need smiting tools.
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2019-05-23, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
It would be fun to enchant a forge to use heat metal instead of coal.
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2019-05-23, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
The movie Dragonslayer is a great example of the use of heat metal spell to forge metal. I would definitely allow it to be used to work metal.
Last edited by Garfunion; 2019-05-23 at 01:06 PM.
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2019-05-23, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
I'd let them do it within reason. Probably not generating heavy weapons or silvering weapons, but creating multiple arrowheads, spear heads, daggers, shortswords or making repairs to metal weapons? Sure!
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2019-05-25, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
like an induction forge!
I'd say Heat metal would work for short repairs, a couple of arrow heads out of metal scraps, a dagger out of a metal shard, anything else would take multiple castings.
I love the idea of a forge cleric climbing up on some scaffolding and using heat metal and smithing tools to pop out dents and such on the Iron doors to a temple of Moradin after an attack without taking them down.Last edited by Danielqueue1; 2019-05-25 at 12:13 PM. Reason: dwarves!
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2019-05-25, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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2019-05-25, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
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2019-05-25, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
You only need to melt metal if you want to smelt/solder/weld it. There's still room between a workable temperature and melting point.
I would be wary of using damage to discern the heat needed to work metal because it is possible to 'destroy' a metal object without fully melting it. It's possible that good rolls on a 1d6 bonfire could screw up the temper and cause oxidation over time.
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2019-05-25, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
Another idea. How about an anvil that is enchanted with heat metal to keep the metal laid on it at a workable temperature? Perhaps with a command word to turn it on and off. Could be the best item ever for a travelling smith.
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2019-05-25, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
When a piece of metal is hot forged it must be heated significantly. The average temperatures necessary for hot forging are: Up to 1150 degrees Celsius for Steel
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Lava. A creature takes 6d10 fire damage when it enters lava for the first time on a turn or when it ends its turn there.
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... but here's the kicker: cold forging.
Despite the word "cold," cold forging actually occurs at or near room temperature. The most common metals in cold forging applications are usually standard or carbon alloy steels. One of the most common types of cold forging is a process called impression-die forging, where the metal is placed into a die that is attached to an anvil. The metal is then hit by a descending hammer and forced into the die. Depending on the product, the hammer may actually be dropped on the metal numerous times in a very rapid sequence.
~~ google fu
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*thinks for a moment*
blacksmithing (str) check, with a bonus of half the fire damage, DC 25.
A typical blacksmith * on a normal forge** would get an 89% chance of succeeding
*: STR 16, expert in his trade
** which equals lava temperatures, a.k.a. 6d10, or 3d10 if halved
While "in the wild", a adventurer (STR20) with a bonfire (1d6), proficiency in blacksmithing and guidance, has a 35% chance to succeed.Yes, tabaxi grappler. It's a thing
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2019-05-25, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
Too everyone who said it takes more than one minute to smith something, your kinda wrong. I bladesmith, and let me tell you, what takes time is reheating. If a spell keeps your metal at a constant red heat, you could get tons of work done fast. You can move lots of steel if you know what your doing, and blacksmiths learn to work fast because steel normally cools.
A spear head? Professional Smith could do it in a minute and the time it takes to cool down. Something like a sword or knife would take longer sure, but just keep casting. But yes, this is what I wanted to use the spell for the moment I saw it. It would definitely work. Maybe a couple castings of it though. But a constant red heat is a god send.Last edited by moonfly7; 2019-05-25 at 06:17 PM.
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2019-05-25, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Montreal, QC
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
It's kind of niche, but you aren't necessarily limited to minutes/day. If you were to play a Theurgy Wizard w/ Forge as your associated domain, you could get Heat Metal as a Wizard spell, and since it's 2nd level it's a valid pick for Spell Mastery. Sure, it requires 18 levels of wizard and a really specific build, but it is indeed possible to spam the spell at will.
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2019-05-25, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
The spell also makes the "red hot" metal perfectly safe to touch outside the exact moment the caster uses bonus action to have it deal damage. And the heat only affects creatures and doesn't ignite flammable objects in contact with it. There's no mention of damage to the object itself, which there should be it changed temperature so quickly (both when the spell is cast and when it ends). In other words, it doesn't behave like red hot metal in any way except the glow.
No, I wouldn't allow it. The object glows thanks to the magic, not because it is actually heated to "red hot glow"-level temperatures.
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2019-05-25, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2019-05-25, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
What crafters could really use is a quench cantrip.
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2019-05-25, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2019-05-25, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
In principle I agree with this. Fluff-crunch zigzag logic of the "this spell seems to achieve its mechanical effect through this flavour process, so it should provide all the utility you can argue should follow from that process" type opens a million wormcans and magic doesn't need to be more powerful.
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2019-05-25, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2019-05-25, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
Last edited by Witty Username; 2019-05-25 at 09:39 PM.
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2019-05-26, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2019-05-26, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
Personally, I think it would just be too finicky, so I wouldn't allow it. There's also a lot of questions to it, is Heat Metal hot enough? Does the cooling instantly quench the metal? If these are true, why does Heat Metal not ruin the temperament of everything you use it on?
That said, spellcasters can definitely start a fire, and your smithing PC almost certainly will have knowledge of how to craft a sufficiently hot fire.
Spellcasters still have plenty they could do to help regardless.Last edited by Blood of Gaea; 2019-05-26 at 12:19 AM.
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2019-05-26, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
Eh, given the existence of Fabricate, I don't really see a problem with allowing the use of heat metal and perhaps other spells to aid with crafting. Especially since Heat Metal would mostly only cut down on fuel consumption. I mean, you'd still have to do the work part of forging by swinging a hammer.
Perhaps some enterprising caster could conduct some research based on heat metal specifically to replace the forge when forging.I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!
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2019-05-26, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Heat Metal to work iron without a forge?
Reality is relative, and there is an exception to every rule.