Shuriken-creating item?

[Stam]

I've got a rogue6/Monk1/shadowdancer2, who for the most part is a non-combat type, Str score 8. However, she does have Weapon Finesse and a high Dex (halfling race).

I'm looking for options for her - when the occasion is necessary - to actually dish out some damage. Shuriken seemed like a nice enough idea as a sneak-attack delivery device, but paying for them on a regular basis is going to wear out my budget in a hurry.

Does anyone know of, or can reccomend or build, an item that might fit this situation?

Books allowed: CArc, CWar, CAdv; FR 3.5 and 3.0 sources; MI Comp (subject to DM vetting). Custom items are also allowed, but would have to be properly thought out and price-balanced.

Budget: Roughly 5-6k, between both melee weapon and ranged weapon.

Ideas?

[Damionte]

shiruken are not too expensive. They count as ammunition, so you can buy them in bushells like arros. You even enchant them like arrows rather than daggers.

[kpenguin]

Do you have a cleric, wizard, or sorcerer in your party? Then just buy mundane shuriken by the barrel and have them cast Greater Magic Weapon when an enemy pops up.

[Stormcrow]

There is a bracer/glove in Magic Item Compendium that creates daggers on command and magical daggers 3 charges per day... get your DM to let you make shuriken?

[Stam]

I did...they said only 2/round for roughly 3-4k with no enhancement, or close on 7-8k with the possibility to make a limited few with enhancement.

I'm wondering if there's other, legal options than that.

[Funkyodor]

It's only around 2,310g for fifty +1 shuriken. But since your damage output is mostly from Sneak Attack, it would probably be better to shell out 310g for fifty Masterwork shuriken and purchase some nice poisons instead. If you need the magic to get around DR, a couple of potions of greater magic weapon would do ya, and mabye make some of those Masterwork shuirken cold iron and/or silver too. Just my 2 cents on your bugetary requirements.

Edit: Math screw up, slightly more expensive that previously indicated.

[kpenguin]

It's only around 2,610g for fifty +1 shuriken. But since your damage output is mostly from Sneak Attack, it would probably be better to shell out 70g for fifty Masterwork shuriken (+1 attack) and purchase some nice poisons instead. If you need the magic to get around DR, a couple of potions of greater magic weapon would do ya, and mabye make some of those Masterwork shuirken cold iron and/or silver too. Just my 2 cents on your bugetary requirements.

I second that motion. Probably your best option, though you'd have to keep your supply of Greater Magic Weapon potions.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, for a custom item, we consult the table here.

The spell you need is Major Creation, a 5th level spell. It has no material component (thankfully). It creates 1 cu.ft/level of spell. Minimum caster level is 9th for a 5th level spell, so that's 9 cu.ft. That's MORE than enough for our needs.

You want this to have unlimited charges, so we're looking at Use Activated or Continuous... that's 2,000 * caster level. That's 18k. Hmmm... that's way out of your budget. Let's see what we can do... Use 1/day is only 1/5th of the cost, roughly betweek 3k and 4k.

Duration of items is hours/level for base metals or rounds/level for precious ones. How about this?

Bracers of Shuriken
These bracers seem like perfectly normal leather bracers unless the wielder reaches down to pull something as if from a concealed wrist sheath, when he will find a shuriken ready to be thrown there.

This bracer can make up to 200 shuriken per day. It can make shuriken that are made of special materials, such as Silver or Cold Iron, however each such shuriken counts as 10 regular shuriken being pulled.

All shuriken vanish the round after they are pulled, even if not thrown.

Moderate Conjuration; CL 9; Craft Wonderous Item, Major Creation; Price: 3,600; Weight: 1lb

Some bracers can create magic shuriken. These have a +1 Enhancement bonus to attack and damage, but otherwise are as above

Moderate Conjuration and Minor Transmutation; CL 9; Craft Wonderous Item, Major Creation, Magic Weapon; Price: 6,600; Weight: 1lb

[kpenguin]

Wait... 500 free shuriken a day, with provisions for cold iron and silver shuriken included, for only 3,800? That doesn't seem a tad underpriced to you?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wait... 500 free shuriken a day, with provisions for cold iron and silver shuriken included, for only 3,800? That doesn't seem a tad underpriced to you?

Considering Major Creation can create, at 9th CL, 9 cubic feet of material (enough to fill most closets) I think that's quite reasonable... although I can drop it down to 100 if necessary.

[Funkyodor]

Well, your math is a bit off with that bracer. The cost of an unlimited use Major Creation item is 90,000g (spell lvl 5 x caster lvl 9 x 2,000g) and that is to only create precious metals and up. To create Rare Metals / Gems, it costs another x2 or x1.5 respectively. So your 100-500 shuriken a day using the 1/5 price would cost 18,000g. And to create Mithril, Admantium, or Silver (cold iron is a no go) costs another 18,000g. High level spells are expensive to make into magic items.

[Person_Man]

Buy an efficient quiver or handy haversack. Fill it with mundane shuriken. They're cheap.

Also, as a Rogue, you have UMD. With UMD, you can use wands. So when you want to deal damage, just blast people. Or you can scour the Spell Compendium for something that enchants weapon with the Wounding property (or anything that deals ability damage) and enchant your shuriken yourself.


Other non-shuriken advice I felt compelled to write. Ignore it if you only want shuriken advice:

As a Shadow Dancer, you have Dodge and Mobility. Eluasive Target and/or Defensive Throw will add some serious Trip ability to your build.

If your DM will allow Races of the Dragon, your next two class levels should be Disciple of the Eye. It adds a Fear effect every time you roll to attack. Fear effects stack. And the Disciple of the Eye levels stack to to determine your Flurry ability.

Another alternative is to retrain and dump your useless Monk and Shadowdancer levels. When you hit Rogue 10, you can pick up the Crippling Strike Ability.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Shadowdancer is hardly worthless, Hide in Plain Sight is worth plenty to a rogue. But yes, I agree with the monk... although using it to get an extra attack is pretty interesting. Might also want to pick up Precise Shot and Rapid Shot for throwing...

[Citizen Joe]

Why do I have to keep pointing this out? All those creation and fabricate spells make ONE singular item up to such and such volume. So you don't get a bazillion tiny items out of the casting, you only get one. So you're item needs to be an on use, or charged item. i.e. when you throw a shuriken, another is created in your hand. Or X times per day it can make a shuriken. That tends to drive up the price of magic items to accomplish your goal.

[Stam]

Well, your math is a bit off with that bracer. The cost of an unlimited use Major Creation item is 90,000g (spell lvl 5 x caster lvl 9 x 2,000g) and that is to only create precious metals and up. To create Rare Metals / Gems, it costs another x2 or x1.5 respectively. So your 100-500 shuriken a day using the 1/5 price would cost 18,000g. And to create Mithril, Admantium, or Silver (cold iron is a no go) costs another 18,000g. High level spells are expensive to make into magic items.

Yeah, looks like the price calculation there is really off...I don't see how using the item to create precious items hikes the price, though? From my reading of the spell, it just limits the duration. (Which is fine, as after thrown the shuriken should vanish anyway.)

For those who think 3.5k for 500 shuriken is overpowered, though, kindly note that 500 nonmagical, nonmasterwork shuriken costs just 50 GP. Which is just one more reason why the Quiver of Anuriel (sp?) is ridiculously overpriced for its benefit at low levels (the non-MW version, anyway).

Has a DM created or allowed such a custom item, before? What price was it weighed in at, and what were the considerations?

[Stam]

Why do I have to keep pointing this out? All those creation and fabricate spells make ONE singular item up to such and such volume. So you don't get a bazillion tiny items out of the casting, you only get one. So you're item needs to be an on use, or charged item. i.e. when you throw a shuriken, another is created in your hand. Or X times per day it can make a shuriken. That tends to drive up the price of magic items to accomplish your goal.

Hehe...as many times as there are idiots like us who haven't figured that out yet, I suppose?

Still, that's the spell that these limited-duration-creation items are based on. I suppose it's just a repetitive effect, then.

[UserClone]

From Spells & Magic, by Bastion Press:

Ring of Shuriken
This steel band creates three shuriken upon command in the wearer's hand. As this is a free action, the weapons can be thrown immediately. These shuriken vanish at the end of the following round and are identical to normal ones in all other respects.

Caster level 3rd; Prerequisites: Forge Ring; Spiritual Weapon; Market Price: 2000 gp.

If your DM allows, a' course.

[Harold]

I think your best option is a bow. (not crossbow) then you can still stay in the back if you don't have a lot of health.

[Stam]

For range, damage or pretty much any effect, yes. But this PC is not a standard adventurer...nor a standard rogue. (Not a single thieving skill other than the Hide/MS/Escape Artist/Tumble.)

In this case, the PC has a very nonconfrontational mindset, and will leave combat for a very last resort. As such, given that the setting is a city, it's a little bit hard for me to visualize her carrying around a bow.

Hence, the shuriken which she's had some training with. My other alternative - I have a Belt of Hidden Pouches - is to just have pouches of shuriken hiding in them. Pull out one (MEA), move to within a shadow (MA) and Hide...then next round, toss a single shuriken as a snipe shot and then move to a new hiding spot. Rinse, repeat.

[Stam]

Now, why didn't I think of this before???

Okay... just tossing out crazy idea here...

+1 bow fires normal arrows as +1 arrows

So why not follow that path with a set of "thowing gloves" ... treated just like the bow for costs and such????

Thoughts?

[Person_Man]

Shadowdancer is hardly worthless, Hide in Plain Sight is worth plenty to a rogue. But yes, I agree with the monk... although using it to get an extra attack is pretty interesting. Might also want to pick up Precise Shot and Rapid Shot for throwing...

Shadowdancer is worthless:

1) Doesn't progress Sneak Attack or any other offensive ability.

2) Has retarded requirements (Dodge, Mobility, 5 ranks of Perform).

3) Duplicates Evasion (without providing Improved Evasion).

4) Provides slightly fewer Skill points.

5) Hide in Plain Sight is worthless.

• Outside of combat, its very easy to find cover or concealment in order to Hide.
• Combat is relatively short in terms of number of rounds. Would a Wizard waste an action not casting a spell? Would a Fighter waste an action not making an attack? Why would a Skill Monkey want to waste an action to Hide when you can attack or activate an item?
• You can distract an enemy with a Bluff check, and then Hide as normal behind any cover (like your friend standing between you and an enemy) or concealment (smoke, low light, various magic items). Bluff is a class Skill for Rogues, and Sense Motive is not a class Skill for most enemies.
• A Ring of Invisibility costs 20,000 gp. A potion of Invisibility only costs 300 gp. Either takes the same amount of time to use as the Hide Skill, and either is far more effective.

[Stam]

That seems like an extremely subjective and min-maxing approach. I disagree with several of the points - rather evidently so, as my PC has taken this route.

However, it's also extremely off-topic. Moving back to the shuriken-enhancement, please?

[Tor the Fallen]

Just ask the party wizard to cast greater magic weapon on your shuriken. It lasts 1 hour/level. You could even get the wizard a pearl of power (3rd level) so he can reprepare another 3rd level spell. That will only set you back 9,000 gp, and every three levels the wizard has will give you another +1 on you shuriken.