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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

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    Lightbulb China's Bull TO Build. (Sage)

    The basis of this build? Bull Rush. And making an absolute mess of whatever place you happen to be in at the time. Expect collateral damage. Maybe a couple angry shop owners too. So, who is this character? Somer serious bass hat who likes to be the hammer to the wall's anvil.

    So, what better race to be a total bass than a Tiefling. And make it an Oni-spawn too! (Yes, that's Asia, not China. Shh.) Now you can force traumatic memories of playing Nioh as you smash people in to the wall. (Bonus points if your DM/players tried to use keyboard to play it.) +2 Strength. Super necessary for...well, pushing things with your hands. +2 Wisdom, also useful for pushing things with your MIND! Also Alter Self innate for +2 Strength again.

    And class? Well, I know of only one class that gets both full caster level and full CMB progression in Spheres. Sage.

    What makes this more interesting than the regular old, "Smash them with Air Blast" builds? Well, you mean aside from breaking the game between combat talents and magic talents, and Ha Me Ka Me Has? Nothing. Totally.

    You might be tricked in to thinking that you should go in to Ki Blaster right off, wouldn't you? Well, you'd be wrong. You want to go in to Enhancer, because +10 to Strength and +10 to Wisdom are good for the same reason Oni-spawn is good, but like 5x moreso. Not to mention, Enhancer grants you your Maneuver Master, which is the quintessential part of this build. But yes, at level 8, you want to get Ki Blaster.


    Where you excel: indoors.
    Where you fail: outdoors. Unless you find a way to attack from above (like jumping). Holy cow did I actually find a use for Jump? Probably not. If you're often outdoors, prioritize the Drop [Brute] talent.


    -Critical Item: Pauldrons of the Bull. Expensive, but it essentially guarantees your bull rush. Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver (Bull Rush) can also work in a pinch. And they stack.

    Level 1: Feat - Improved Bull Rush. You also get Enhancer style, and a sphere talent. Take Destruction. You'll retrain out later. This grants a casting tradition.
    Spoiler: Martial Tradition.
    Show
    Crushing Juggernaut, with 2 Brute talents and Armor Training. (Don't care about Armor Training,
    but hey, maybe you run across an artifact armor, and wanna take it.)
    With those Brute Talents, take the base sphere and Hammer.


    Spoiler: Casting Tradition
    Show
    No general drawbacks. Spell Points are completely optional, and any of these feel cheesy for the build.
    For Alteration-specific drawbacks, take Lycanthropic, and Unnatural Transformation.
    For Destruction, take Destructive Touch (you want to be in melee before you spell them, most of the time, anyway), Energy Focus (we are only going to be using Air Blast), and Shape Focus (Energy Satellite) (can be bought off later).
    For Enhancement, take Bodily Enhancement, Restricted Enhancement (tieflings), Personal Magics

    Take Air Blast and Energy Satellite (x2).

    Note: You can have Energy Satellites up permanently, at no cost, if you go with the low damage Destruction option. As you might remember, we don't actually care about the base effect dealing damage. We just want to smash this guy in to a wall. And Energy Satellites automatically hit for at least half damage, thus imparting their effect of bull rush, unless you target a rogue.

    Level 2: Esotery - Mental Escalation. Wisdom = a lot of stuff, and scales Air Blast's Bull Rush.
    For Combat Talent, take Smash [Brute] (for obvious reasons)

    Level 3: Feat - Combat Reflexes. Because Stand Still will be important.
    Talent(s) - Enhancement (don't forget bonus talents from drawbacks: Physical/Mental Enhancement for the same reason as above, and Energy Weapon, if that counts for Unarmed Damage, else Deep Enhancement).

    Level 4: Esotery - Maneuver Master. Level as CMB.
    Combat Talent - Quick Force [Brute]. Because doubling your physical bullrushes / round is nice.

    Level 5: Feat - Stand Still. Keep them on the wall.
    Talent - Alteration (And Beastial Reflexes, for Leaping Attack mostly, and Size Change, for +8 to Str and +2 size bonus to CMD)

    Level 6: Esotery - Battle Form (oops. My mistake I thought this made it full level as CMB. Thankfully the designers weren't that stupid. So, I moved this here. Still super awesome, and basically mandatory. This is why I do these test builds.)
    Combat Talent - Dazed and Confused [Brute]. A will save or be staggered. ON EVERY BULL RUSH!

    Level 7: Feat - Merciless Rush (Str as bonus damage on Bull Rush). Just worship yourself. I'm sure it'll be fine.
    Talent - Energy Satellite. (Basically, you finished your mandatory magical side, and any other magic spheres you take are entirely optional. You could even rush some Combat Talents.)

    Level 8: Style - Ki Blaster (Retrain Destruction base sphere, and gain 2 bonus Destruction talents. Moar Satellites! Or start paying off the drawbacks.) I believe that Ki Blaster actually also bypasses shape focus, letting you bull rush from a distance regardless. I won't let that fly in my game, but it could be an interpretation.

    Esotery - Elemental Aura, because 1d8 + (level/4)d8 to every Bull Rush is total bull. 3d8 at this point. And probably 3 times per turn, once you've got an enemy in position. From a single effect that lasts for an entire battle (because of insane Wisdom at this point), for free. And it's a rider effect. It's not a dedicated source of damage. And it discourages people from killing you.

    Combat Talent - Perpetual Motion. You know how I said probably 3 times per turn? Make that 6. You can take this earlier, but hey. I can't give you all the answer, immediately. That'd be cheating.

    Level 9: Feat - Squash Flat (meh. Doesn't stack with Drop, but a semi-reasonable reading of Drop's RAI is that, if he's tripped, you can ram him in to the ground, like a wall.) Or Greater Bull Rush, for another +2 to your check.

    Talent - Follow Through [Brute]. To bull rush whenever you hit with an attack. We just got a Ki Blast which does massive damage base line, can bullrush as a side effect, targets touch AC, and can be used in place of attacks. So, if you hit with one Ki Blast, you get 3-4 bullrushes (side effect, Follow Through, Perpetual Motion[x2?]), and get bonus damage. Oh and you might double dip on your elemental aura, for both bull rushing, and hitting with a Ki Blast




    So, let's take a moment to figure out our current potential at this level 9.
    If we started with 14 in Str and Wisdom at point buy (rather low considering those are our primary stats). After Race: 16(18) Str, 16 Wis. After Alteration: 24 Str, 16 Wis. After Enhancement Style: 32 Str, 24 Wis.
    OK....holy cow. What the... After Enhancement Sphere: 36 Str, 28 Wis. OK. I think we're done. So that's a +13 str bonus, and +7 wisdom? Seriously impressive, given no magic items, and unimpressive starting stats. (Even with magic items, I'd be skeptical of those scores.)
    So melee Bull Rush checks are 9 (level) + 4 (feats) + 13 (str) + 2 (size), for +28 to bull rush. Not bad, honestly. Could add +2 for Gauntlets.
    Meanwhile, our swift action Satellites Bull Rush at only +21 (+23). Still impressive. Still freaking impressive.
    And you roll twice and take the better result (Pauldrons).
    And on each successful (non-manhandle) Bull Rush, you get a second bullrush.

    Median CMD at CR 9 is 29.5 (holy carp, I thought this was really optimized). [On the low end, though, it's only 6, so hey.] That means, on average, we are pushing enemies from 15 to 20 feet with each physical bull rush, and 10 to 15 feet with each satellite. I'll alternate between the two when determining later statistics. We'll also assume a Large Monster.

    Let's assume we've cornered someone already, and have a turn's worth of Satellites remaining.

    Move action: Physical Bull Rush in to perpetual motion. 15 ft push then 20 ft push in to a wall. 1d10 dmg / 5 ft ~= 38.5. plus Str +26. Plus Elemental Aura 6d8 ~= 27. Plus Unarmed Strike 4d8 ~= 18 (if you purely go off its base damage + size and have no unarmed scaling items/effects) So average damage here is 109.5 So, in a single action, on our least damaging possible option, we've nearly downed the median creature of CR 9.

    Swift Action: Spell B. Rush to perpetual Motion. 10 to 15 ft push. all previous calculations, but 1d10 + 1d6 dmg / 5 ft ~= 45. But it also does a of 5d6 = 17.5 just for being a destruction spell (given our Wisdom modifier being almost as high as the median Will save, it's probably going to fail). 133.5 is the total damage from an average bull rush. We now crush the mean and median in a single swift action.



    But. We can't forget that we became a Ki Blaster. So, as a Standard action, we can hit someone with a Ki Blast (spending a Ki point to have that alone deal 1d6*level, for 2 rounds, 2 rounds), and applies Chi Gong (5d6) and all the stuff mentioned when I said to get Follow Through. We also won't do anything fancy like...say...Barrage. And also say that follow through doesn't proc perpetual motion.

    So, Standard action: Ki Blast in to perpetual motion, in to Follow Through. Ki 9d6 ~=31.5. Chi Gong 5d6 =17.5. Pushes 10 feet. Then perpetual motion pushes 15 feet, and follow through pushes 10 feet. 45 ft * 1d10 + 1d6 dmg / 5 ft = 81. Elemental Aura applies 4 times (attack +3 bull rush), for 12d8 = 54. Plus Str +39, plus unarmed strike (3 times) 6d8 = 27.
    So, the average total damage = 250

    If we hit with that, in a single action, we obliterate the max hp of CR 12. 3 CR higher. Oh, and for those that can withstand 493 damage per round (CR 20+), they still must make a Fort save or be Staggered.... 7 times. And we are purposely underestimating how much it could deal. Eat your heart out Goku. We'll just raise you back from the dead anyway.

    So...Yeah. I think I'll call the build here guys. I've more than done my work.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2018-07-11 at 10:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Sometimes you get eaten by a giant purple earthworm.
    Journals from my D&D campaign
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EldritchWeaver's Avatar

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    Jan 2015

    Default Re: China's Bull TO Build. (Sage)

    Impressive numbers. I like to compare such builds with the tarrasque, especially if they can one-round down it. Unfortunately, with a CMD of 66, your build fails to hit it (which I take to be indicative of other high level monsters). So maybe a level 20 version has less problems there, even if hitting with the level 9 does a lot of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Where you excel: indoors.
    Where you fail: outdoors. Unless you find a way to attack from above (like jumping). Holy cow did I actually find a use for Jump? Probably not. If you're often outdoors, prioritize the Drop [Brute] talent.
    Sparrow's Path and Eagle's Path help with self-sustained flying, if you don't go Alteration or Telekinesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    For Destruction, take Destructive Touch (you want to be in melee before you spell them, most of the time, anyway)
    I've been trying to find that talent or feat, but I failed. Is it the basic melee touch instead?
    Avatar made by Mehangel - "Neigh?"

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: China's Bull TO Build. (Sage)

    Quote Originally Posted by EldritchWeaver View Post
    Destructive Touch
    I've been trying to find that talent or feat, but I failed. Is it the basic melee touch instead?
    Destructive Touch is a drawback.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
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    Jun 2011

    Default Re: China's Bull TO Build. (Sage)

    I think there are some issues, but I need to sit down and check some things carefully.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

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    Default Re: China's Bull TO Build. (Sage)

    Quote Originally Posted by EldritchWeaver View Post
    Impressive numbers. I like to compare such builds with the tarrasque, especially if they can one-round down it. Unfortunately, with a CMD of 66, your build fails to hit it (which I take to be indicative of other high level monsters). So maybe a level 20 version has less problems there, even if hitting with the level 9 does a lot of damage.
    Yeah. CMD scales ridiculously high in to late game. But against anywhere near his level, it's basically a sure-fired thing. I just used Max HP at a CR as a gauge for just how over the top the damage potential is (with only the move action being strictly melee range).

    That said, it takes up to CR 15 before the median CMD is above 10+CMB. CR 16, for 15+CMB (pauldrons). This, even though it's a purely theoretical build, is not optimized in the slightest, just specialized. As hinted at, spending the remaining 3/4 of his WBL, and abusing Ki Blast more (namely with barrage), and swapping out Stand Still for Extra Talent (Shift Weight [Bute]), means that you could hit much higher, if desired.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2018-01-06 at 01:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Sometimes you get eaten by a giant purple earthworm.
    Journals from my D&D campaign
    My Vestige
    Found my Artifact
    Player Expectations
    Spheres of Power / Might Builds
    Spheres in Review

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