Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 60
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Under construction

    De daemonis et diabolis
    Fiend summoning for beginners

    Image by Clint MacLean on artstation

    "I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now." - Darynda Jones, "second grave on the left"

    Spoiler: Disclaimer
    Show
    This thread is meant as sort of a guide to using them correctly and to the caster's best ability, but (thematically) quoting Doctor Faust: “I am not omniscient, but I know a lot.”
    I don't claim perfection, this is but a trial and will be kept up to date with input from the playground, so if anyone has to add something, just write a reply and i'll do it for you.
    I will furthermore not post entire spell descriptions for obvious copyright reasons, but i assume people know what i'm talking about. If something is unclear, i'll gladly explain or search for short quotes from the spell descriptions.
    For the sake of conformity, i'll use the popular amazing, good, ok, situational/meh and plain bad color scheme for everything i bother to rate. EvilAnagram or whoever has the patent on it, please don't sue.


    Summoning has been a core element of fantasy games for decades, i dare say: from the beginning. That beginning of the current cycle of Dungeons&Dragons gave the players fey, elementals, beasts and the different forms of familiars to summon, but no fiends (other than tiny chainlock familiars).
    That changed with the release of Xanathar's guide to everything, and while the term 'everything' is a bit overstated, it still does cover three different spells to do just that.
    Sadly the spells, e.g. "summon lesser demons", "summon greater demon" and "infernal calling" are too different from each other to discuss them as one, so i'm going to dissect each one of them separately.

    Nomenclature

    In pop culture and different religions, demons and devils are mostly interchangeable - not so in D&D.

    Breaking the fiend category of monsters down to the two essentials, a demon is the incorporation of the chaotic evil alignment and stems from the abyss, while a devil is a being of lawful evilness and stems from the nine hells. Both have kinds of hierarchy structures, but that comes into play later.
    It's important to differentiate between the two kinds of fiends, simply because the two "summon demon" variants cannot summon a devil, and neither can the "infernal calling" spell conjure a demon - keep that in mind when deciding whether to take one or more of the spells.
    Last edited by Quoxis; 2018-08-10 at 05:22 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Under construction, do not reply yet, thank you

    Summon Lesser Demons

    Clarification

    For just as little as a 3rd level slot and blood from a recently killed humanoid*, you can conjure an annoying little bunch of demons from their cozy home in the abyss. (*optional, you can use an arcane focus instead, but you sacrifice the relative safety of the blood circle - later more on that.)
    Unlike other summoning spells, this one is pretty random: you roll a d6 when casting this spell, and the outcome decides over the quantity and quality of your summons (while the choice which exact creatures appear is up to the DM):

    5-6 = Eight demons of challenge rating 1/4 or lower = Manes, Dretches, Abyssal Wretches
    3-4 = Four demons of challenge rating 1/2 or lower = Manes, Dretches, Abyssal Wretches
    1-2 = Two demons of challenge rating 1 or lower = Manes, Dretches, Abyssal Wretches, Quasits, Maw demons, Vargouilles

    This difference actually means a lot: as there are no cr 1/2 demons, by rolling a 3-4 you end up with half of what you could've gotten with a 5-6, and with an evil GM you can still end up with two manes if you roll a 1-2, as you have no say in it at all. Upcasting this spell using a 6th level spell slot gives you twice the amount of whatever you got, using an 8th level spell even thrice (yes, you can now have an army of 24 manes and dretches, for example).

    Whatever you summon with this spell is aggressive towards everything that's not a demon - including you. They will attack the nearest creature to which this applies, so you better make good use of that 60ft range. The demons disappear when they drop to 0 hp or when you drop concentration. At worst, you've won bought a round by summoning meat shields for one hit each, at best you can get rid of them quickly when victory is achieved.

    Spoiler: Blood circle
    Show
    Both demon summoning spells offer the possibility to smear a circle out of the blood you use as the material component, which is as big as the space of the caster. This not only serves aesthetic purposes, but also works as a barrier the summons can neither cross nor damage, and if a creature is inside the circle it can't be attacked by them. The most obvious use of it is to stand right inside of the circle while/after casting the spell to not end up getting attacked by your new ugly pets.
    Another use could be to summon one of the demons (or, in case you're lucky, two quasits) inside of the circle and have it stay there unable to move or attack anyone more than 5ft away - limited use, maybe for blocking a pathway. Theoretically speaking the spell description does not specify that the circle must be on the exact spot where the spellcasting is being performed, so you could abuse the RAW and magically paint a blood circle 60 ft away from you just in the middle of enemy lines, but most GMs won't allow it i presume.


    Specimina

    As i've been informed, not only the monster manual but also Volo's guide to monsters has demons in it - who knew! They're included as of now and marked with a (V). Mordenkainen had to follow up on the fun, adding yet another option marked with (M).

    Spoiler: Mane
    Show
    A cr 1/8 small smelly disappointment that lorewise serve little more purpose than being a snack for stronger demons. They have an ac of 9, some resistences and poison immunity, can't be charmed, frightened or poisoned and have darkvision, that's it - oh, they also have a claw attack with bad aim and 5 damage.

    Spoiler: Dretch
    Show
    A cr 1/4 small dumb grunts that hate themselves, but not as deservingly as the Mane: they have 11 ac, the same resistences and darkvision, poison immunity, telepathy (which only works in abyssal, sadly), multiattack with equally bad aim but combined more damage than the Mane, and a 1/day fart fetid cloud ability that can poison others. Overall better than the Mane, but that's not much.

    Spoiler: Abyssal Wretch (M)
    Show
    Another cr 1/4 demon, medium in size and usefulness for their price. Same ac, same resistances and immunities, even the same hp as the Dretch, comparable stats (more cha and dex, less str and con), can't fart (which may or may not be seen as an improvement) and only one attack that at least has higher accuracy and average damage... pretty much the same as a Dretch with less combat options.

    Spoiler: Quasit
    Show
    A cr 1 tiny creature you've probably seen at least once in your career as a chainlock's familiar. Has an ac of 13, a bonus to stealth, the usual resistences with the addition of resistence to nonmagical weapon attacks, same immunity to poison and being poisoned as the rest, can actually understand and speak common, and has some nice features: advantage on saving throws against spells, shapechanging into a bat, centipede or toad, at-will invisibility, a 1/day scare ability that does what it sounds like, and its attack has a better chance to hit, does 5 piercing and on a con save additional 5 poison damage and the poisoned condition. Nice, but has a small chance to spawn and even with its resistences is doomed to be short-lived.

    Spoiler: Maw Demon (V)
    Show
    A cr 1 demon consisting of 90% mouth and terror with 13 ac, more than 4 times the hp of a quasit, the usual demonic resistences and a mind too small to be charmed or frightened. Its damage is respectable at low levels, and its rampage feature makes it a nightmare for low-hp hordes - upon killing anything, it can move half its speed and attack again (and again, and again, and again...). Arguably the best option for this spell, too bad you can't choose to just summon two of them and be done with it.

    Spoiler: Vargouille (V)
    Show
    A cr 1 tiny human head with bat wings for ears - i'm not kidding, Volo's guide tells you about them,
    and their sight is only the second grossest thing about them. They share the same resistences and poison immunity with their monster manual cousins, understand multiple languages but can't speak, have an ac of 12 paired with a few more hp than a quasit, but imo not enough to outshine their weapon and magic resistences. On the offensice side they're better off in terms of damage: their bite attack does 5 piercing plus 10 poison damage without a save, and they have another annoying attack option: stunning shriek, which scares and stuns everyone around them who manages to fail a dc 12 wis save. The most disgusting thing about them, though not really useful in combat and marginally useful in certain scenarios is their means of reproduction: they "kiss" an incapacitated humanoid, thereby curse it and if nobody removes the curse, the humanoid's head mutates, grows ear-wings and ends up as a Vargouille itself. I imagine that's an awesome, worse-than-death tool for torture, but aside from that... meh. It's been pointed out that these beings might actually not count as demons. They're fiends from the abyss, yet they aren't specifically listed as demons and seem to have other differences to them. Ask your GM if you want these guys.


    Comparison

    Compared to another summoning spell, "conjure animals", "summon lesser demons" loses in all categories:
    Conjure animals lets you decide which CR and linked to it how many beasts you want (though a mean GM can still give you one 1/8cr beast), the conjured animals are friendly to you and your party, you have greater variation of what you can get, the animals are friendly to you and your party, upcasting is more useful (giving twice the amount of summons at 5th instead of 6th level, thrice at 7th instead of 8th level and four times at 9th...), and the animals are friendly to you and your party.
    It's debatable whether a summoned demon is better than a beast of comparable cr - most of those have comparable or worse damage, but higher chance to hit, and resistences are few among the natural beings, but other than that... no big difference.

    For flavor reasons i totally get that a druid can summon cuddly brown bears to help him and the warlock gets evil things consisting of spikes and teeth they try to sink into anyone dumb enough to be close, but regarding crunch, this spell is worse off. As of now, i can't recommend it.
    Last edited by Quoxis; 2019-05-15 at 09:17 AM.
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Summon Greater Demon

    Summon Greater Demon

    Clarification

    This is the steroid version of its little brother, summon lesser demons, with some changes:
    It costs a 4th level slot and gives you only one demon per casting, but now we're talking cr 5 or less, and the best thing: YOU chose which exact type of demon you get. The components*, casting time and duration as well as the range stay the same. (*optional, you can use an arcane focus instead, but you sacrifice the relative safety of the blood circle i've explained in the previous section.)

    As it is with those evil creatures, also the summoned greater demon is aggressive towards you and your enemies alike, but with a big difference: you get a chance to control your summon.
    When you summon it and on your following turns you can command it (as a free action) to do whatever you want - attack opponents, carry loot, wash the dishes, you decide, no questions asked.
    The downside: the summoned demon can break free by passing a CHA save against your spellcasting modifier, the chance to which it gets after each of its turns (meaning you can still give one command for without them being able to resist). Good for you that most demons have mediocre charisma scores and except for the higher tiers they don't get much of a bonus to it.

    Specimina

    Volo's guide and Mordenkainen's tome offer new greater demons too, and they're a great addition to the monster manual's roster. For convenience, they're marked with a (V) or an (M) respectively.

    Spoiler: Lesser demons
    Show
    For the sake of completion: you can theoretically call forth one of the aforementioned lesser demons,
    i just can't figure out why you would. Still, i'll list them here.

    Spoiler: Mane
    Show
    A cr 1/8 small smelly disappointment that lorewise serve little more purpose than being a snack for stronger demons. They have an ac of 9, some resistences and poison immunity, can't be charmed, frightened or poisoned and have darkvision, that's it - oh, they also have a claw attack with bad aim and 5 damage.

    Spoiler: Dretch
    Show
    A cr 1/4 small dumb grunts that hate themselves, but not as deservingly as the Mane: they have 11 ac, the same resistences and darkvision, poison immunity, telepathy (which only works in abyssal, sadly), multiattack with equally bad aim but combined more damage than the Mane, and a 1/day fart fetid cloud ability that can poison others. Overall better than the Mane, but that's not much.

    Spoiler: Abyssal Wretch (M)
    Show
    Another cr 1/4 demon, medium in size and usefulness for their price. Same ac, same resistances and immunities, even the same hp as the Dretch, comparable stats (more cha and dex, less str and con), can't fart (which may or may not be seen as an improvement) and only one attack that at least has higher accuracy and average damage... pretty much the same as a Dretch with less combat options.

    Spoiler: Quasit
    Show
    A cr 1 tiny creature you've probably seen at least once in your career as a chainlock's familiar. Has an ac of 13, a bonus to stealth, the usual resistences with the addition of resistence to nonmagical weapon attacks, same immunity to poison and being poisoned as the rest, can actually understand and speak common, and has some nice features: advantage on saving throws against spells, shapechanging into a bat, centipede or toad, at-will invisibility, a 1/day scare ability that does what it sounds like, and its attack has a better chance to hit, does 5 piercing and on a con save additional 5 poison damage and the poisoned condition. Nice, but has a small chance to spawn and even with its resistences is doomed to be short-lived.

    Spoiler: Maw Demon (V)
    Show
    A cr 1 demon consisting of 90% mouth and terror with 13 ac, more than 4 times the hp of a quasit, the usual demonic resistences and a mind too small to be charmed or frightened. Its damage is respectable at low levels, and its rampage feature makes it a nightmare for low-hp hordes - upon killing anything, it can move half its speed and attack again (and again, and again, and again...). Arguably the best option for this spell, too bad you can't choose to just summon two of them and be done with it.

    Spoiler: Vargouille (V)
    Show
    A cr 1 tiny human head with bat wings for ears - i'm not kidding, Volo's guide tells you about them,
    and their sight is only the second grossest thing about them. They share the same resistences and poison immunity with their monster manual cousins, understand multiple languages but can't speak, have an ac of 12 paired with a few more hp than a quasit, but imo not enough to outshine their weapon and magic resistences. On the offensice side they're better off in terms of damage: their bite attack does 5 piercing plus 10 poison damage without a save, and they have another annoying attack option: stunning shriek, which scares and stuns everyone around them who manages to fail a dc 12 wis save. The most disgusting thing about them, though not really useful in combat and marginally useful in certain scenarios is their means of reproduction: they "kiss" an incapacitated humanoid, thereby curse it and if nobody removes the curse, the humanoid's head mutates, grows ear-wings and ends up as a Vargouille itself. I imagine that's an awesome, worse-than-death tool for torture, but aside from that... meh. It's been pointed out that these beings might actually not count as demons. They're fiends from the abyss, yet they aren't specifically listed as demons and seem to have other differences to them. Ask your GM if you want these guys.



    Spoiler: Barlgura
    Show
    A large cr 5 demon ape - what's not to love? This guy sports an ac of 15 with a sizeable hp pool, protected by the same damage resistences and poison immunity as his brethren, has blindsight for 30 and darkvision for 120ft, has some spells to cast once (entangle, phantasmal force) or twice (disguise self, invisibility) per day, can attack recklessly like your run-off-the-mill barbarian, and can attack thrice per turn with 2x9+11 damage altogether. For a large red ape he's also surprisingly sneaky, and i can see him grapple just fine as well.

    Spoiler: Shadow demon
    Show
    A medium cr 4 near incorporeal badass. Medium means it's one of the few candidates to be summoned inside the blood circle, for more explanation look at the lesser demons section. This nightmare is immune to the stuff other demons are resistent to, has a bunch of other resistences (for example nonmagical weapon attacks), come to think of it - except radiant damage, which it is vulnerable to, it is immune or resistent to about everything, even most conditions like restrained, petrified, grappled etc. Furthermore it can pass through creatures and objects, can hide as a bonus action in darkness or dim light, and its attack does bonus damage if it's got advantage - think of it as a summonable rogue. Be careful with it: it's got a +4 to charisma saves, so it's prone to breaking free sooner or later.

    Spoiler: Babau (V)
    Show
    What sounds like a drunk baby is actually a cr 4 medium demon unicorn man with a (for its level) good ac of 16, resistences like his demon buddies plus to nonmagical weapon damage, boni to perception and stealth, some nice at-will magic ( darkness, dispel magic, fear, heat metal, levitate), does two attacks per round for surprisingly up to 30 average damage per round, and additionally to its attacks it can use an innate feature to your strength-using opponents: disadvantage on any strength weapon attacks for an entire minute on a failed con save with dc 13. Ok, most strength fighters have high con, but a bad roll can happen to anyone, and the Babau can repeat it for free each round. Definitely a nice contestant, but it also has a +1 charisma, so be warned.

    Spoiler: Tanarukk (V)
    Show
    What happens when you cross a demon with an orc? This medium cr 5 abomination with an ac of 14 and a whopping 95hp - more than the Barlgura of the same cr. It's not entirely demonic, making it one of the few exceptions from the typical resistences - Tanarukks have resistence to fire and poison, but no immunities. They still have the advantage on magic saves,
    and their orcish heritage gives them the "aggressive" trait for additional movement. Tanarukks attack with both their bite and their greatswords once per round each, dealing ok damage, but the best part is their reaction: upon being hit in melee, they can attack with advantage. If your party needs a punishing tank, you've just found the solution. Its resistences and high ac puts it at least on par with a barbarian party member on the level you get the spell, while its -1 on cha makes it easy to control.


    Depending on what sourcebooks you're allowed to use you already have a couple of options, but by upcasting the spell, you can get even more out of it:

    Spoiler: 5th level slot
    Show

    Spoiler: Chasme
    Show
    Ooh boy, it's a large hell mosquito with mean features. It's got an ac of 15, a flying speed of 60ft, the regular demon resistences and immunities, advantage on saving throws against magic... great defense overall. But wait, there's more: any non-demon starting their turn within 30ft of it has to pass a dc 12 con check, otherwise it falls unconcious from the Chasme's buzzing. Aaaand, if that's not enough for you: its attack does 40 damage on average, and part of it is necrotic damage that cannot be healed (max hp gets reduced by its amount).

    Spoiler: Vrock
    Show
    A large demon bird with even better defenses, e.g. more hp, additional damage resistences, the same advantage on magic saving throws... being a bird it's obviously got a fly speed of 60ft too, and its other features are nifty too: a 1/day stunning screech which... well, stuns everyone within reach that fails a con save, and a recharging poison spore attack that can poison any creature that fails a con save AND does additional damage per round (you know, how poisons work in every game except D&D). Shame its attacks do mediocre damage for the level it comes into play... Just be careful, this one has a +2 to its cha saves.


    Spoiler: 6th level slot
    Show
    Spoiler: Draegloth (V)
    Show
    Now that we have the halforc demon, we need... a halfelf demon. This large cr 7 anthro-dog-like being sports an ac of 15, 123 hp, and it combines the resistences of a true demon with the sleep immunity and advantage against charming of an elf, though it sadly loses the advantage on all magic saves. Instead it pops out at-will darkness and 1/day confusion, dancing lights and faerie fire, but its three rather accurate attacks per round, each dealing 16 damage, are nothing to sneeze at either.

    Spoiler: 7th level slot
    Show
    Spoiler: Hezrou
    Show
    A large stinking spiked frog on steroids. Yet another one with higher overall stats than the aformentioned, same resistences and immunities as all demons with additional resistence to nonmagic weapon attacks (if those are still relevant at the level you get access to this), advantage on saves against magic, boni to saves that matter (and a measly +1 to cha saves, so it won't break free that easily), and a permanent poisoning cloud in a radius of 10ft around it, dc 14 con or you're poisoned if you start your turn in it. Three mediocre attacks (15 and 2x11) per turn, but with a high strength, this guy could perform well as a grappler.

    Spoiler: Shoosuva (V)
    Show
    Cr 8 demon hyena/scorpion with anger issues. Lower ac and hp than the Hezrou, but the same resistences including nonmagic weapon attacks, can't be charmed or frightened but has no other advantages against magic like most high-level demons. It manages to get back on the good list with its two attacks, one of which does 26 damage, the other one less so, but it offers a dc 14 poison that not only poisons, but also paralyzes the victim until it succeeds on a save at the end of its turn. That makes the average damage of this guy and the Hazrou comparable, but the Shoosuva has the nasty poison as a free bonus on top. Definitely dangerous, but not as durable as it should be on this level. A -1 cha modifier makes it easy to control.

    Spoiler: 8th level slot
    Show
    Spoiler: Glabrezu
    Show
    A large... goat... lobster... demon... thing. Again, a straight update statwise, coming in with an ac of 17, a big load of hp, same old damage resistences and immunities as all of the bunch plus resistence to nonmagical weapon damage, same old advantage on magic saves... but now it gets interesting: at-will darkness, detect magic and dispel magic,
    1/day confusion, fly and power word: stun. This guy is dangerous as a melee combattant too: four attacks per turn, two of each 16 and 7 damage, possibly grappling an opponent without an initial save, or it can attack twice and cast a spell in the same turn. What's not to love about this bada- oh. Oh no. It's got a +7 bonus to cha saves, so this is as dangerous as it gets to summon, unless you have the means to decrease that somehow.

    Spoiler: 9th level slot
    Show
    Spoiler: Yochlol
    Show
    Medium yellow tentacle slime serving Lolth. Medium means it's one of the few candidates to be summoned inside the blood circle, for more explanation look at the lesser demons section. It sports an ac of 15, the same damage resistences and immunities as the rest plus resistence to nonmagic weapon attacks, and it has the good old advantage on magic saves. Adding to that it can transform into a female drow or a giant spider, keeping its stats though, or into a medium cloud of toxic fog that can both poison and incapacitate an opponent. More than that it has a few innate spells (detect thoughts, web at will, and dominate person 1/day) and... well, actually good attacks: twice per turn, it does 5 bludgeoning plus 21 poison damage with a reach depending on its form (mist can't attack, drow and spider 5ft, tentacle slime demon 10ft). If poison wasn't as commonly resisted it'd be better, but on average it's still not too bad. It's got a +6 bonus to cha saves though, so be careful when summoning this one.


    Tips and tricks for demon domination

    You're dealing with demons who wouldn't mind chomping you down, so it's just appropriate to turn the odds in your favor to keep them under control.
    A demon you summon gets a chance to break free after each of its turns: if it succeeds in a cha saving throw against your spellcasting modifier, it's free to attack whomever it pleases. Including you. Not good.
    Now by RAW it's a little difficult: most higher demons have "advantage on saving throws against spells and magic effects" - and it's up to your GM to decide whether the actual summoning spell is a magic effect on them. It's probably not RAI, but still: check with your GM.

    True names
    Now, to make the chance of the demon's success on its saving throw as small as possible, you could try to learn its true name. Each demon has one, but the Manes cannot communicate it and most others can only tell it to you in abyssal - check with your GM whether you need to speak that language to understand the name (logically you can also pronounce it if you don't, but better play it safe).
    To learn a demon's name, you can simply command it to tell you at the summoning itself - potentially at the cost of its action, so it'll attack whoever attacks it, and it could get a turn at which it has no disadvantage on the save, again: depending on your GM.
    Sadly, there's no way to get a specific demon, just its general race, so the chance of getting a demon you already know the name of again are minuscule.

    Spells
    There are spells that can impose disadvantage or otherwise damage charisma saves - too bad most demons with high enough cha to escape also have magic resistence. Still, you can try to use spells like bestow curse or bane.
    You could put up a magic circle given the right circumstances (e.g. enough time) - for holding the line in a dungeon or otherwise spacially restricted area (canyon, ruins, whatever) you can set a 10ft demon arena!

    Features
    There are class features that allow you to influence saves of opponents, like the diviniation wizard's portent or... hm. I currently can't find any other than it, so if anyone knows one applicable here, please tell me.
    Last edited by Quoxis; 2019-05-15 at 09:35 AM.
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Under construction, do not reply yet, thank you

    Infernal Calling


    This section will be written within the next few days. I'm sorry, this is taking much longer than expected.
    Last edited by Quoxis; 2018-01-07 at 08:14 AM.
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Reserved, just in case
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    You forgot the Maw Demon (CR 1), the Babau (CR 4) and the Shoosuva (CR 8), form the Volo's.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    You forgot the Maw Demon (CR 1), the Babau (CR 4) and the Shoosuva (CR 8), form the Volo's.
    Volo had demons? I, i mean, of course, i just... uhm...
    I forgot it. Will add when devils are done (and while i'm at it, i'll look for those too in volo's guide). Thanks!
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    You forgot the Maw Demon (CR 1), the Babau (CR 4) and the Shoosuva (CR 8), form the Volo's.
    Yup. Also Tanarruk (CR 5) and Draegloth (CR 7), also from Volo's.
    Part-time DM, part-time player in 5e. I aim to be reasonable.
    Homebrews on the stove (5e):

    Wizard School: Black Magic
    Druid Circle of the Many
    Druid Circle of the Silver Moon
    Bard College of the Chord

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Beechgnome View Post
    Yup. Also Tanarruk (CR 5) and Draegloth (CR 7), also from Volo's.
    True. Even though they're not in the Demon entry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quoxis View Post
    Thanks!
    You're welcome! I had forgotten some too, as Beechgnome pointed out.
    Last edited by Unoriginal; 2018-01-07 at 10:34 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Sshamath
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Also, you don't need the material component 24 hour young slain humanoid blood, as it has no listed cost, you can substitute it with an arcane focus RAW.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by vexedart View Post
    Also, you don't need the material component 24 hour young slain humanoid blood, as it has no listed cost, you can substitute it with an arcane focus RAW.
    Which in turn means no safety blood circle, but i‘ll add it anyway. Good thought!
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    This is great info to have. Just looking at the spells I can see how dangerous they are without their safety circle. Magic Circle isn't a good substite with its long cast time.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    and the Shoosuva (CR 8), form the Volo's.
    Awwwwww yeeaaaaaaaa. Love me the Shoosuva.

    Great guide so far! I'd thought the Lesser Demon spell looked underwhelming at first. Good to know I wasn't the only one.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by XmonkTad View Post
    This is great info to have. Just looking at the spells I can see how dangerous they are without their safety circle. Magic Circle isn't a good substite with its long cast time.
    I meant to include other safety measures in the last „reserved“ post. The bad thing is simply that most of them either need concentration, are an action or have a too long casting time - but such is life, dealing with demons isn’t meant to be easy!
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Quoxis View Post
    I meant to include other safety measures in the last „reserved“ post. The bad thing is simply that most of them either need concentration, are an action or have a too long casting time - but such is life, dealing with demons isn’t meant to be easy!
    To paraphrase a wise man: "you don't get in bed with the Devil without getting ****ed."

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    To paraphrase a wise man: "you don't get in bed with the Devil without getting ****ed."
    We're not at devils yet, maybe those are nicer?
    (Spoiler: they're not, but they might be easier to control with the right build)
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Update: Volo's demons, even those not listed under demons (thanks for the heads up!) have been added.
    Devils are to come within the next few days - reallife sucks.
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Uhm, I'm fairly certain that the Vargouilles aren't Demons, despite being chaotic evil.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Uhm, I'm fairly certain that the Vargouilles aren't Demons, despite being chaotic evil.
    According to volo's guide:
    Stat block: "tiny fiend, chaotic evil"
    Flavor text: "Abyssal Nuisances. Swarms of vargouilles flap through the caverns and skies of the Abyss. They are given little regard by powerful and intelligent demons since vargouilles can do them no harm. Even the weakest demon, such as a manes or a dretch, fears vargouilles only if they appear in great numbers."

    Fiend, neutral evil, coming from the abyss? Sounds like a demon to me, even if not properly registered. Shame on you, Volo!
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    The text clearly distinguish them from demons, though.

    My guess is that it's because they reproduce by making people's heads fly off, rather than being products of the Abyss like Demons.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    The text clearly distinguish them from demons, though.

    My guess is that it's because they reproduce by making people's heads fly off, rather than being products of the Abyss like Demons.
    I remain inconvinced, but i shall hurry to include it as a point of GM judgement. They're not really good anyway.
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Quoxis View Post
    Fiend, neutral evil, coming from the abyss? Sounds like a demon to me, even if not properly registered. Shame on you, Volo!
    Well there are other types of fiends besides demons and devils. There are also Daemons which if I remember correctly are neutral evil.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    Well there are other types of fiends besides demons and devils. There are also Daemons which if I remember correctly are neutral evil.
    Daemons are in Pathfinder.

    The D&D main neutral evil Fiends are the Yugoloth.

    Of course, you're right that there are other type of Fiends.

    For exemple, the Devourer (also from the Volo's) is a chaotic evil Fiend created by Orcus, yet they're not Demons.


    I'm not sure if it's clearer if explained like that, Quoxis, but do you see my point?

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Daemons are in Pathfinder.

    The D&D main neutral evil Fiends are the Yugoloth.

    Of course, you're right that there are other type of Fiends.

    For exemple, the Devourer (also from the Volo's) is a chaotic evil Fiend created by Orcus, yet they're not Demons.


    I'm not sure if it's clearer if explained like that, Quoxis, but do you see my point?
    Devourers also live in the Abyss

    Jokes aside: Ok, you seem to be right. I won't remve the Headbats from the guide, mostly because i sacrificed time writing their entry, but i already put in the warning that they might not be acknowledged as demons.
    Would it be gamebreaking to include them? I doubt it.
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Are there any fiends in Xanathar's Guide to Everything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Is this a good OJEBUWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES, or a bad OJFBUEWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Jake View Post
    "Oh no, I'm bleeding out of my eyes...it's only now that I see that the delivery fee isn't a substitute for tipping your pizza guy!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguss View Post
    "No" means "yes".
    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    My other idea was to be a troglodyte were-cockroach and just smell bad in people's squares.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Jun 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by ATHATH View Post
    Are there any fiends in Xanathar's Guide to Everything?
    Xanathar's does not contain any new monsters, fiends or not.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Being able to effectively choose from two different useful summons isn't great, but by upcasting, you can get the following:
    You should probably update that sentence.
    5-6 = Eight demons of challenge rating 1/4 or lower = Manes, Dretches
    3-4 = Four demons of challenge rating 1/2 or lower = Manes, Dretches
    1-2 = Two demons of challenge rating 1 or lower = Manes, Dretches, Quasits, Vargouilles
    Shouldn't maw demons be on this list?

    Also, I strongly recommend removing the write-up for vargouilles from your guide (or at least just putting it in an "Ask Your DM" appendix or something). Not only do they have a default alignment of NEUTRAL Evil (not CHAOTIC Evil), they were present and not-demons in previous editions (IIRC).
    Last edited by ATHATH; 2018-01-08 at 03:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Is this a good OJEBUWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES, or a bad OJFBUEWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Jake View Post
    "Oh no, I'm bleeding out of my eyes...it's only now that I see that the delivery fee isn't a substitute for tipping your pizza guy!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguss View Post
    "No" means "yes".
    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    My other idea was to be a troglodyte were-cockroach and just smell bad in people's squares.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    There are class features that allow you to influence saves of opponents, like the diviniation wizard's portent or... hm. I currently can't find any other than it, so if anyone knows one applicable here, please tell me.
    Wild Sorcerer's Bend Luck could help.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryblaze View Post
    Xanathar's does not contain any new monsters, fiends or not.
    Well, except the Tiny Servant.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Quoxis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fiend summoning for beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by ATHATH View Post
    You should probably update that sentence.
    I probably should and will soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATHATH View Post
    Shouldn't maw demons be on this list?
    They should and will be added just as soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATHATH View Post
    Also, I strongly recommend removing the write-up for vargouilles from your guide (or at least just putting it in an "Ask Your DM" appendix or something). Not only do they have a default alignment of NEUTRAL Evil (not CHAOTIC Evil), they were present and not-demons in previous editions (IIRC).
    They’re ce in volo‘s guide, i‘ve never played previous editions, and i already added a „may not count as demon, ask dm“ message in bold at the end of the description. Probably while you were busy reading though, as the addendum is just a few hours old at max.
    "Can i touch myself before talking to that guy?"
    "..."
    "I mean can i cast a touch spell on myself..."
    "It's both possible, but one would probably lead to a bad outcome."

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •