Handy Powerattack

[Kizara]

I'm looking for the rules on mutli-handed powerattacking/str bonuses.

Barb with 30 str, 2-handing a greataxe. Girallon's Blessing to give 2 additional arms.

Hold greataxe with all 4 arms. How much str bonus do I get and how much power attack conversion?

I'm assuming 2.5x normal str bonus (1.5+.5+.5=2.5) and 1:3 PA ratio.

I need a REFERANCE to the rule most especially, as my DM is very much "I do it like the books say" kind of guy.

[Matthew]

Savage Species (p. 42), I think, is the place to look. I don't think it mentions Power Attack, as when Savage Species was released Power Attack always did 1:1.

[Fax Celestis]

Actually, it does, though your source is right. Four-handing a greatsword is *2.5. Six-handing (via Marilith, for instance) is *3.5.

[Matthew]

Are you sure it mentions Power Attack? What page is that?

[Fax Celestis]

I am AFB at the moment, otherwise I'd provide a reference.

[Kizara]

That savage species referance definately says that its 2.5 str bonus, and uses the girallon as it's example even.

However, it does not mention power attack, which is where the really treasure lies I believe.

[Matthew]

Savage Species is 2003, I doubt it takes Power Attack Multipliers into consideration because Power Attack didn't Multiply in 3.0. I can't find any mention of it there, but it could still be there.

[Kizara]

Savage Species is 2003, I doubt it takes Power Attack Multipliers into consideration because Power Attack didn't Multiply in 3.0. I can't find any mention of it there, but it could still be there.

This is most likely true, however I still need to find some kind of precendent for power-attacking with multiple arms.

[Fax Celestis]

Try the preceding conversation on the same topic. Iwas wrong: there is no precedent for Power Attack's damage increasing via extra hands (though you could theoretically couple TWF with THF with four arms).

EDIT: Not even theoretically, actually. Unapproachable East and the Expanded Psionics Handbook both depict thri-kreen dual-wielding double weapons. It'd be up to the DM if they wanted to use Multiweapon or Two-Weapon Fighting feats, though.

[Kizara]

Lame.

Well thanks for the help, I guess this saved me fruitless searching.

On a side note, do you feel 3:1 is reasonable?

2 hands =2:1
4 hands= 3:1
6 hands= 4:1

Seems to make sense and follow the style of normal DnD progressions IMO.

[Fax Celestis]

Think of this: Six hands + Power Attack + Leap Attack + Shock Trooper = 6*Damage, Penalty goes to AC.

If you're comfortable with that, yeah, it'd work fine. But I certainly wouldn't be.

EDIT: and it is easy to obtain further arms.

[Matthew]

Honestly, I wouldn't grant any Power Attack Bonuses for extra Hands. The feat is already powerful enough, it doesn't need any more help.

[Kizara]

Think of this: Six hands + Power Attack + Leap Attack + Shock Trooper = 6*Damage, Penalty goes to AC.

If you're comfortable with that, yeah, it'd work fine. But I certainly wouldn't be.

EDIT: and it is easy to obtain further arms.

Aside from being a monsterous race, or the Girallon spell I mentioned earlier, what ways are there?

Edit: Oh, and with Leap its only 5:1. Yes, that's still alot.

[Fax Celestis]

Aside from being a monsterous race, or the Girallon spell I mentioned earlier, what ways are there?

*Thri-Kreen (XPH, UE), Girallon (MM-I), and Domovoi (DMC) have four arms initially. Mariliths (MM-I) have six.
*The Girallon's Blessing spell gives two extra arms and is potionable.
*The Girallon Arms soulmeld gives two extra arms and is obtainable as easily as a two-level Totemist dip.
*The Demonbinder prestige class in Drow of the Underdark allows you to acquire two extra arms via the Marilith bind.
*The Multi-limbed template in the DMG-II gives two extra arms.
*The Insectile template on the WotC website gives two extra arms, though these are contested as usable for regular weaponry.

Further, some graft feats add extra arms, and there are sources I'm forgetting.

To top that off, add a way to get rending damage (such as the Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip maneuver, the Girallon's Blessing spell, or the Two-Weapon Rend feat) and you can multiply your damage exponentially.

[Starbuck_II]

Actually, it does, though your source is right. Four-handing a greatsword is *2.5. Six-handing (via Marilith, for instance) is *3.5.

That only impacts Strength bonus.

20 Str is 5 multiply that with 2.5=12 damage from strength.
Power attack is still 2 for one.

[SadisticFishing]

Actually, by the rules, you get 2x, because even though you're holding it in four hands, it's still a two handed weapon. Much the way you can use a one handed weapon in your offhand and still get a 1x, instead of 0x as a light weapon would be.

[AtomicKitKat]

Actually, by the rules, you get 2x, because even though you're holding it in four hands, it's still a two handed weapon. Much the way you can use a one handed weapon in your offhand and still get a 1x, instead of 0x as a light weapon would be.

Are you sure about that? I could have sworn it said that off-hand is always 1/2 Strength and doesn't benefit from PA.

As far as the Strength for extra arms goes, the way I calculated it is simply base 0.5 Strength, +0.5 per arm(Off-hand only gets the one for the arms, without the base 0.5). Was in another thread long ago. I believe I even exchanged a few tells with Squishycube about it.

[Matthew]

Okay.

3.0

Power Attack:

All Weapons 1:1 Ratio. Off hand or Primary Hand makes no difference.

3.5

Power Attack:

Light Weapon (excluding Unarmed and Natural Attacks) - No benefit
One Handed Weapon - x1
Two Handed Weapon or One Handed Weapon used Two Handed - x2

That's your lot. Off Hand or Primary Hand makes no difference.

The confusion arises from the fact that Off Hand Attacks are often made with Light Weapons to minimise AB penalties without Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and Off Hand Attacks always have a 0.5 Strength Bonus Damage Multiplier. That's all there is to it.