Why aren't you in school?

[Kaelaroth]

Hello.

This is my wondering. Your characters are affected by varying penalties as they get older. Yet, if you had a houseruled in character who was younger than the given age minimum, what would the effects of that be?

And how far younger? I mean, a few years? Five, ten? And for different races and classes? If you were a uber-powerful death machine sorcerer, where your adventuring powers a mainly derived from your bloodline might it be different?

I welcome thoughts.

[Dhavaer]

d20 Modern has -3 Str, -1 Dex, -3 Con, -1 Int, -1 Wis, -1 Cha for characters under 11. Star Wars Saga has the same, but also a flat -1 to all abilities for characters under 15 or 16, I think.

BTW, excessive formatting is against the board rules, IIRC.

[Kaelaroth]

Thanks!

Sorry for the excessive formatting. Small child with me wanted to see what I could do on the computer. I'll keep it in mind!

[Ulzgoroth]

I think by PHB default sorcerer powers don't normally develop before puberty, incidentally. Though obviously you could either change that or make an exception.

[Goober4473]

As a note, I would personally avoid odd numbered penalties to ability scores. It's too easy to abuse. Throw a 13 in something, -1, you still have the same ability modifier.

[Shatenjager]

As a note, I would personally avoid odd numbered penalties to ability scores. It's too easy to abuse. Throw a 13 in something, -1, you still have the same ability modifier.

Too easy to abuse? If you are running a young charachter you are just getting a penalty. Even if you don't actually suffer ability modifier penalties you are still with less stats than you would have had otherwise.

[goat]

Well, Human sorcerers/rogues/barbarians by RAW start at age 16+. If their powers presented at puberty, that's given them a few years to learn how to control and refine them. It also gives us guidance that a human character at 16 is considered "grown".

Past this, it's hard to do. A character can have an 18 int at 16, and even a -6 to it leaves them as smarter than the average person, but that -6 to someone who started with 10int leaves them as barely above animal level intelligence. But, giving them just a -1 leaves the first character as supremely intelligent, even though they might be 8.

It might be better to work it by percentages rather than set numbers. Everything drops by X% to represent the person already growing into their adult stats. If it was 20%, the person with 10Int drops to 8, and the person with 18 int drops to 14, a significantly more important drop to them than that of the first person.

I'm not sure if that 20% is appropriate or not, and what age range it should cover, but it seems to fit better to me.

[SadisticFishing]

They can't have class levels yet, I think. Maybe Expert or Warrior, but no Fighter or Paladin levels for anyone too young.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

I disregard age penalties/benefits in my games. It's more important to me that the players pick characters they like more then characters with better stats. I mean, how many people wouldn't play as venerable when using a spellcaster otherwise? Or maybe you won't ever pick that age group just because it feels too much like munchkin'ing? It's better if you just pick the age that best represents the character you want to roleplay as.

[Flawless]

I disregard age penalties/benefits in my games. It's more important to me that the players pick characters they like more then characters with better stats. I mean, how many people wouldn't play as venerable when using a spellcaster otherwise? Or maybe you won't ever pick that age group just because it feels too much like munchkin'ing? It's better if you just pick the age that best represents the character you want to roleplay as.

Hmm, -6 to all physical ability scores? Seems like a bad choice. Especially when using point buy.

[Thinker]

Hmm, -6 to all physical ability scores? Seems like a bad choice. Especially when using point buy.

Not when you can start the game with a 23 Intelligence at level 1. That gives a DC of 17 to all spells you cast at 1st level. Your HP may suck, but at that point your save/sucks aren't going to be resisted.

[Flawless]

Using 32 point buy that leaves you with:

Str 4
Dex 10
Con 6
Int 23
Wis 11
Cha 11

Supposing you're a grey elf.

At low levels you're a glass canon and at higher levls it's not going to matter all that much. Old seems like a much better choice to me. Same advantages at low levels (1st-3rd) and your physical stats are each three points higher. I am not saying it doesn't work, it's just that I don't think such good iedea.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

A valid argument. But still, that's cherry picking an age that best suits statistical potential. I'd rather just nix the whole system and let the players be a 12 year old mage if they want to be without penalty.

[RTGoodman]

I didn't think you could buy a stat above 18 with point buy. Unless I'm wrong, you can get a 23 Int at 1st level.

[CASTLEMIKE]

A Game of Thrones has children age 7 and up. That would be a low powered game 1st level and children compared to an average game of 1st to 4th level.

A young child age 7 - 8 gets -4 ST, +2 Dex, -3 Con, +2 Char with +6 to Hide, +2 Climb and +1 Bluff.

Edit: A young adult age 14 - 15, -1 St, -1 Con +1 Hide, +1 Climb, +1 Bluff.

Age 16 - 34 normal.

[horseboy]

A Game of Thrones has children age 7 and up. That would be a low powered game 1st level and children compared to an average game of 1st to 4th level.

A young child age 7 - 8 gets -4 ST, +2 Dex, -3 Con, +2 Char with +6 to Hide, +2 Climb and +1 Bluff.

A young adult age 14 - 14 -1 St, -1 Con +1 Hide, +1 Climb, +1 Bluff.

Age 16 - 34 normal.

That con penalty seems odd. My nephew can run all day, and his sister is right behind him. Makes me glad they're not mine.
But yeah, few hit points, one good scrapped knee and he's all crying for healing. Oh wait.....

[Sleet]

But yeah, few hit points, one good scrapped knee and he's all crying for healing. Oh wait.....

And in Game of Thrones, healing comes in the form of "Here's a bandage, hope you don't get an infection and die."

[ForzaFiori]

I didn't think you could buy a stat above 18 with point buy. Unless I'm wrong, you can get a 23 Int at 1st level.

they bought an 18, and then with racial/age bonuses brought it up to 23

[skywalker]

Well, Human sorcerers/rogues/barbarians by RAW start at age 16+. If their powers presented at puberty, that's given them a few years to learn how to control and refine them. It also gives us guidance that a human character at 16 is considered "grown".

Past this, it's hard to do. A character can have an 18 int at 16, and even a -6 to it leaves them as smarter than the average person, but that -6 to someone who started with 10int leaves them as barely above animal level intelligence. But, giving them just a -1 leaves the first character as supremely intelligent, even though they might be 8.

It might be better to work it by percentages rather than set numbers. Everything drops by X% to represent the person already growing into their adult stats. If it was 20%, the person with 10Int drops to 8, and the person with 18 int drops to 14, a significantly more important drop to them than that of the first person.

I'm not sure if that 20% is appropriate or not, and what age range it should cover, but it seems to fit better to me.

Why can't 8 year olds be supremely intelligent? Your intelligence doesn't actually change much as you age. It's actually your knowledge that changes. Which is why knowledge checks are based on skill ranks. Really, though, there's no reason why you can't have an 8 year old smarter than all of us. There are tons of 'em.

[Deepblue706]

Why can't 8 year olds be supremely intelligent? Your intelligence doesn't actually change much as you age. It's actually your knowledge that changes. Which is why knowledge checks are based on skill ranks. Really, though, there's no reason why you can't have an 8 year old smarter than all of us. There are tons of 'em.

Well, actually, I have to disagree with the "your intelligence doesn't actually change much as you age" bit. IQ can grow over time, through rigorous mental work. It's just that not many people know where to begin, or they have other things on their mind than simply "brain training". So on average, it doesn't change much. However, there is great potential for change in lots of people.

8 year olds can be smart, sure - but I think it should be noted that school, while primarily a source of knowledge (and not raw intellect), is what develops the brain at an earlier age. People who don't go to school, and don't challenge themselves don't actually develop their brainpower as much. So, I think it's fair to say that those with significantly less schooling are at a disadvantage, not just in knowledge, but in intelligence as well.

One's living situations also play onto a person's IQ. Eldest born children are likely to be getting a "boost" simply because of the mindset they develop through simply being the eldest of the children, and through having more responsibilities. The youngest of siblings are often less intelligent until they acquire a status where they are no longer treated "like a baby", which might stick as long as until they move out of the house.

Now, an 8 year old, going out adventuring, is obviously to be treated as one of the "more responsible" children their age, having much more to think about, much more to do - and thus may have a higher intelligence than his/her peers. However, I absolutely hate children, so I will arbitrarily state that all below the age of 18 have INT, WIS, and CHA penalties. Yes, I am 19.

[SilverClawShift]

Why can't 8 year olds be supremely intelligent?

Actually, someone in my group played a 10 year old who just happened to be a fantastic wizard, who surpassed the people he was training with at a young age.
It forced our DM to come up with something obviously, so here's what we did on the fly (I'm sure there are much better solutions to be found).

- Come up with the stats normally (roll, point buy, whatever).
- Divide the physical stats by 4 (as close as possible) or at least into 4 chunks (so a Strength of 14 becomes 4, 3, 4, 3).
- At ages 4, 8, 12, and 15 start adding them up.

We though about doing it to Wisdom as well, but wisdom isn't only worldly knowledge, it's also natural perceptiveness and things like that. We figure it's reasonable for a child player/character to have the same mental stats they would as if they were an adult... it's their general experience that's lacking. They're still smart/perceptive/friendly and charming/what have you, they just don't know exactly how to act with it all yet.

That was our take anyway.