Wild Shape

[Vaynor]

I was looking at the wild shape description and I noticed that the only limit is HD. It doesn't say anything about templates, so as long as the HD stays ≤ the limit it's fine, correct?

So, couldn't a level 12 druid transform into a Celestial Paragon Dire Bear? Or am I missing something?

Assuming such a thing exists naturally, which it must somewhere in the world, a druid of thirteenth/twelfth level run up to said bear, die, then have a friend res/true res it?

[martyboy74]

Yes, I guess you can get templates on your animal; just be aware that you have to learn about it, and the more templates, the higher HD, and the rarer the creature, thus the Knowledge check becomes much higher.

The other thing that you have to watch for are type changing templates. Your example wouldn't work unless the druid was a MoMF, because the celestial template turns animals into magical beasts, which (normal) druids can't wildshape into.

[Vaynor]

Yes, I guess you can get templates on your animal; just be aware that you have to learn about it, and the more templates, the higher HD, and the rarer the creature, thus the Knowledge check becomes much higher.

The other thing that you have to watch for are type changing templates. Your example wouldn't work unless the druid was a MoMF, because the celestial template turns animals into magical beasts, which (normal) druids can't wildshape into.

Oh, well then ditch celestial, I wasn't aware it changed the type and added it at the last second.

So what you're saying is with enough Knowledge (nature) the paragon dire bear is possible at level 12?

I'd just spend as much feats as possible to get my skill up, grab a huge Wis and natural spell and rock level 12.

But that's a little too munchkin for me. :D

EDIT: Oh, and most templates don't add more HD, but rather improve your HD.

[martyboy74]

Wait! I found it. Wild Shape says that it is the same as Alternate Form unless otherwise noted, and Alternate Form says that you cannopt use it to take the form of creatures with templates.

So, sorry. No Paragon Dire Bears.

EDIT: All this is based of the SRD, which I'm assuming uses the most up-to-date errata. Although, looking at Alter Self, which Polymorph is based off of, it says that you can't assume the form of creatures with templates. Looks like WotC at least got that part of Polymorph right.

[Starbuck_II]

Oh, well then ditch celestial, I wasn't aware it changed the type and added it at the last second.

So what you're saying is with enough Knowledge (nature) the paragon dire bear is possible at level 12?

I'd just spend as much feats as possible to get my skill up, grab a huge Wis and natural spell and rock level 12.

But that's a little too munchkin for me. :D

EDIT: Oh, and most templates don't add more HD, but rather improve your HD.

Actually, Wild Shape originally worked off Polymorph: so no templates. Polymorph says no templates.

Now it works off Alternate Form (in errata). I'm not sure if Alternate Form allows templates...

[Vaynor]

...dammit...

I knew I was missing something. : /