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  1. - Top - End - #1471
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    Rater202's Avatar

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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    "...Why did you tell them about my worst-case scenario?" Oxy asks. "I was going to wait for them to convict you on illegal charges before succeeding and making a token show of force before escalating until they gave up. Now I can't do anything aggressive without appearing as the instigator and getting the whole damn planet on my ass."

    "Unless they'll back down from the threat of taking away the Dragon Balls and letting them all stay dead the next time some big bad jackass shows up, the only way I can fix their stupidity now is if we completely write the planet and its current status quo off."
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  2. - Top - End - #1472
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    Jade:
    She looks at Oxyribo with a level searching gaze. Then spreads out a hand to gesture at the two pony guards she just talked to.
    "Let me answer your question, with another question. These pony guards here are normal. They have no power that defeat me, I can destroy them with ease, their laws might as well be ink on a page for all I care, they might be corrupt for all I know and if Celestia has problem with it I can just bring them back to life with the Dragon Balls.

    Why shouldn't I just threaten these guards that I'll kill them unless they take me to Celestia immediately?"

    Perhaps applying his logic in a different context will shed light on how he applies it.
    My Fan Fiction:
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    A Kalos based pokemon fan fic. Now up to Chapter 25! I'm also on discord as "raziere".



  3. - Top - End - #1473
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    In the intervening time, Jade will teleport to Equestria to meet with Celestia, bringing along the current group. She will greet the guards
    "Hello. I know this is on short notice, but I am Jade Refera and these are my family and friends. We wish to meet with Celestia and wish her well considering her....health."
    The guards readied their weapons, startled at the group's sudden appearance.

    "Sorry ma'am, no teleportation allowed. Orders of Princess Celestia," one of them said. "For your own safety."

    Starlight gave them a confused look. "Why not? What's going on?"

    The guards glanced at each other. "Erm, I'm sure Princess Celestia will fill you in. But until the lockdown is lifted, no teleportation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Jade:
    She looks at Oxyribo with a level searching gaze. Then spreads out a hand to gesture at the two pony guards she just talked to.
    "Let me answer your question, with another question. These pony guards here are normal. They have no power that defeat me, I can destroy them with ease, their laws might as well be ink on a page for all I care, they might be corrupt for all I know and if Celestia has problem with it I can just bring them back to life with the Dragon Balls.

    Why shouldn't I just threaten these guards that I'll kill them unless they take me to Celestia immediately?"

    Perhaps applying his logic in a different context will shed light on how he applies it.
    The guards gave each other a worried look. "Should ... should we call for backup?" the first one asked.

    Starlight facehoofed. "No need, they're always like this," she sighed. To Jade and Oxy, she whispered, "Stop. Scaring. The guards."
    Last edited by Hawkflight; 2020-04-21 at 02:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate
    Psychology has nothing to say on the courtship of dragons, but science will surely catch up in time.
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  4. - Top - End - #1474
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Jade:
    She looks at Oxyribo with a level searching gaze. Then spreads out a hand to gesture at the two pony guards she just talked to.
    "Let me answer your question, with another question. These pony guards here are normal. They have no power that defeat me, I can destroy them with ease, their laws might as well be ink on a page for all I care, they might be corrupt for all I know and if Celestia has problem with it I can just bring them back to life with the Dragon Balls.

    Why shouldn't I just threaten these guards that I'll kill them unless they take me to Celestia immediately?"

    Perhaps applying his logic in a different context will shed light on how he applies it.
    Oxy turns his head.

    "Becuase they're not being jackasses right now? Lethal force is for jackasses. And that besides the point. I wasn't going to openly threaten them until reasonable means of getting them to stop being jackasses had tried and failed. By telling them my hypothetical worst-case scenario you undermined our position and made trying to talk them out of being jackasses harder."

    "...Do... Do you think I'm just some petty thug who can only get what he wants with violence? Is this about Delargo? Becuase that was a completely different situation. We had proof that he was committing crimes punishable by death and was a major threat to the universe, this is just people being idiots."


    Spoiler: Off Topic
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    By the way, I updated my most recent post in the Naruto Game to actually include what's on the scroll. Kind of had a brain fart.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

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    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  5. - Top - End - #1475
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    Jade:
    She whispers back.
    "Sorry Starlight. See what just happened there Oxy? I misinterpreted your logic and caused Starlight and these ponies here to be nervous simply for asking you a question. I didn't even try to threaten them, it just sounded much like one. If I, someone who has known you for years and can be called your friend can make that mistake, imagine how someone who has only heard of you as some rumor or name that killed some other guy can misinterpret you or your actions.

    No, this is not about deglargo. Just the opposite: this is about said idiots and jackasses. Those are very broad terms. So if your saying that is someone is allowed to kill someone else for those reasons, how do we measure those who qualify? Should I find everyone below certain level of IQ, round them up and kill them in cold blood? Whats the definition of jackass here? A sexist? a racist? Anyone that has ever insulted or done something bad to someone else? What if the number of idiots and jackasses are equal to the number of people in existence? Do we kill everyone? Do we let the Other World sort them out and resurrect all the people who went to Heaven? At what point do we stop? where is the line?"
    My Fan Fiction:
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    A Kalos based pokemon fan fic. Now up to Chapter 25! I'm also on discord as "raziere".



  6. - Top - End - #1476
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    "If someone's being a jackass, you'll know. It's not something that can be put into words."

    "If I had to try to describe it: 'this person is inflicting more harm than good upon the world, simply by existing. The chances of them turning around and realizing that they are a drain on the world is slim to none, and the word would be better off if they simply didn't exist anymore, at least were no longer in a position to drain society' "

    "A person who commits serial murder of innocents despite having nothing physically or psychologically wrong that would compel them to kill. A corrupt politician who extorts money meant to care for those who can't care for themselves and thus deliberately grows fat on the suffering of those they have sworn to serve, or someone who abuses the strict letter of the law to inflict needless harm on someone who only does good in pursuit of some agenda."

    "Back on Earth, the world assembly is pressing charges against you for non-existing crimes that they allege occurred despite everything you've done for the Earth and its people. If they cannot be convinced to stop this foolishness then they may need to be removed from their positions of power becuase if they're willing to do it to someone as powerful and selfless as you then it's a guarantee that countless people who lack your ability to fight back will suffer the same fate and worse still. The simple fact that this has happened in the first place is proof that none of the people who voted for this course of action are fit for office."
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here

    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  7. - Top - End - #1477
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    Jade:
    "If its a standard that can't be put into words, how can I rely on it to guide me?

    So the examples you provided are:
    1-Serial murderers
    2-the social injustice of privileged people existing
    3-rule abusers
    4-a utilitarian's definition of a bad person

    Now I can understand the murderer one- force needs to be met with force- and I arguably follow that utilitarian definition when I fight ki users to protect people. so I can't really criticize you there. No throwing stones from glass houses.

    But those who abuse the rules and the privileged are something thats a little more complicated, while I agree these are bad, its highly debatable whether force actually works to solve these problems in any satisfactory manner. From my point of view, these two types of people appear in every government, every culture from the dawn of time and will seemingly continue to appear until its end, more as a form of inevitable societal entropy than as anything permanently preventable. now I can try to cause a violent revolution to get rid of these people, put a new system in place- but revolutions revolve, and sometimes you end right back where you started, just with you being the new jackass, same as the old jackass. Such violent changes are honestly not reliably positive and produce just as many dictators and fascists as it does functioning positive government. Assuming you can get people to follow the new laws at all, culture after all is always the most important part of this, not the law. Efforts to curb such people successfully more often come from social change through reformation. While fear-based methods to make sure people go along with your leadership well......we all know how the Reign of Terror worked out. Some revolutions are a cautionary tale, Oxy.

    Finally, while I agree the system needs to changed, I disagree with your methods and think you overestimate the necessity of force. This is why we are here, so that I may ask Celestia for nonviolent alternatives- once I assess what needs to be changed. I cannot say if they are cause- or merely the symptom. While if you go and kill them it doesn't matter if your the instigator or not, people on a planet like Earth? the right information won't spread, especially without tools to broadcast it. Kill them and people will assume you just did it because you can or something. Presentation is everything and....uh....your incredibly bad at that. Despite all your other competencies. and killing is almost always considered bad if done out of nowhere without a uniform or the sound of army trumpets and drums to accompany it with other people joining in so its a group activity. Presentation y'know."

    The last part seems to be a sarcastic commentary on war than anything serious. She will begin walking to meet with Celestia while whispering to Oxyribo.
    My Fan Fiction:
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    A Kalos based pokemon fan fic. Now up to Chapter 25! I'm also on discord as "raziere".



  8. - Top - End - #1478
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    "...I think you misunderstood one of my examples..."
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here

    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  9. - Top - End - #1479
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    "Guys, maybe we shouldn't be talking about murder and overthrowing the government in the middle of Princess Celestia's castle?!" Starlight hissed. After a moment, they were taken to an empty, sterile room. Starlight looked around in confusion.

    "What....?"

    "Standard examination, ma'am. There have been reports of ponies falling ill after teleporting of late. Considering you teleported in, we have to ensure you are not carrying any form of pathogen."
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate
    Psychology has nothing to say on the courtship of dragons, but science will surely catch up in time.
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    Kitty Lacuna by Kymme

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    Avatar made by Lightning Bliss.

  10. - Top - End - #1480
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    Fakelight after a lot of struggle, made herself invisble and followed along.
    Silent for now.
    Observing.
    Ponies. Real ponies.
    And the real Starlight.
    She wanted to cry.


    ------------------------

    Fenrir

    He started to leap,and skip to get to the World Assembly growling with rage.


    Hel/World Assembly

    Hel still hated humans.
    Maybe out of loyalty, to an eldrtich monster thing in a form a girl, her brother was convinced, humans were equals...
    But Hel didn't fel that far. She tried to avoid the mind control and manipulation of other forces.
    But even those humans... were better then those aliens.

    She placed a secret orb in the world assembly and called them
    'You. Filthy humans. The king is on the way, and he isn't pleased. Do you have a plan?'
    Bazzilion legions of thanks to his highness Emperor Ing for the awesome avatar!

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  11. - Top - End - #1481
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    Default Re: [DBitp] Here Comes The Son

    Jade:
    She will fall silent as Starlight hisses at her, puts her hands in her pockets and thinks in telepathy, waiting for the scan to end:
    Very well lets think instead.

    Okay, if I misinterpreted the greedy person as privileged, I apologize. But lets say there is a greedy person, who as you say, we suspect of illegally using more resources than they are supposed to, consuming too much. Problem with that, is that we can't tell that sort of thing easily, not without going in, finding their ledgers and doing a lot of number crunching in their accounts to find what part of their finances is funny, and of course assuming I know how accounting works, which I don't. But if that is what is needed to be done...

    Why would I send a ki user to do it? After all, such a job is better done low key and without raising suspicion, which anyone can do not just ki users. Furthermore a ki user if they slip up could cause more destruction and damage than a normal person would and thus cause no end of property damage, injury or death to bystanders and people who just need a job for a paycheck. In fact a normal person would be better at doing the job than you, because you would stick out like a sore thumb while trying to investigate them. While I am not a trained detective. I'm sure someone who is trained years to be an investigator would do the job better than me.

    Put it bluntly, ki users have a niche: we're martial artists who double as walking planet nukes. Not all powerful supermen. We're great at fighting and destroying stuff, but our abilities don't grant us greatness at much of anything else. Sure we wield big sticks, but since when is the weapon one carries the measure of oneself? We're no different from any other person, we just punch harder. We don't have some unbelievable intellect to solve unsolvable crimes, or charismatically convince everyone to follow us of their own volition like some messiah, or whatever else.


    World Assembly:
    He can arrive at any time. They can't do anything about that. Do it whenever.

    The World Assembly responds
    "Oh. He knows. What IS our plan?"
    "Try to explain that its we're doing what we think is best?"
    "Explain that we voted against this. While they voted for this stupidity"
    "Tell him that Oxyribo intended to kill us all and probably him to reform the system and thus overthrow him for his wish over one person getting arrested."
    "Yes he should probably know about that."
    "Honestly Jade Refera is existing in some weird legal snag where we don't know if she is a citizen or not because she is a time traveler, what laws she is bound by or anything. This is mostly just to clear that up and give her some punishment for her actions that have been plaguing Earth because of her."
    "Fine way to do that, angering both Oxyribo and Fenrir."
    "Would they even pay attention to us otherwise?"

    OOC: New thread here
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2020-04-22 at 01:34 AM.
    My Fan Fiction:
    To Catch A Mew
    A Kalos based pokemon fan fic. Now up to Chapter 25! I'm also on discord as "raziere".



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