Overwatch: Thread of the Game

[Rynjin]

She looks alright. The moment I saw B.O.B., though, my first thought was, "Wow, I really wanna play him instead!"

I dunno what Blizzard's aversion is to making female characters that aren't conventionally attractive though. Like, shouldn't a bandit have way more scars? Or, at least a few more wrinkles, considering that she's canonically 39?

Why should a 39 year old have a bunch of wrinkles?

[Chromascope3D]

Why should a 39 year old have a bunch of wrinkles?

Because people tend to wrinkle when they age. Unless they're a woman in Overwatch, apparently, in which case they stop aging at 20.

[Rynjin]

Because people tend to wrinkle when they age. Unless they're a woman in Overwatch, apparently, in which case they stop aging at 20.

Unless you live a very unhealthy lifestyle you shouldn't be wearing your age on your face so much that people are complaining about a woman under 40 not having wrinkles in a video game.

[Chromascope3D]

Unless you live a very unhealthy lifestyle you shouldn't be wearing your age on your face so much that people are complaining about a woman under 40 not having wrinkles in a video game.

Well, if you re-read my post, you'll notice that I led with the idea that maybe she should have some scars on her face because she's a bandit, and then followed up with the idea that, lacking that, she should at least have some visual signifier of being older and more experienced, rather than just looking like just about every other female character in the game that's sub-30. After all, why make the conscious decision of making a character older if you're not going to make her design reflect that?

I dunno, I just think that being an outlaw wouldn't leave you a lot of opportunities to regularly drop in to Sephora, is all I'm saying.

[Rynjin]

I mean, this is a universe where medical tech can enable cyborg soldiers to live forever, essentially nullifying grievous injuries as a concern.

I'm sure that same tech can heal cuts and burns well enough to not scar.

[Chromascope3D]

I mean, this is a universe where medical tech can enable cyborg soldiers to live forever, essentially nullifying grievous injuries as a concern.

I'm sure that same tech can heal cuts and burns well enough to not scar.

Maybe. But I feel like there are more than enough conventionally attractive women on the roster that there's maybe enough room for a few more that don't necessarily have to fit into that mold, and that I honestly don't have to rationalize away my desire to see some more visual variety among their ranks. /shrug

[Rynjin]

Maybe. But I feel like there are more than enough conventionally attractive women that there's more than enough room for a few more that don't necessarily have to fit into that mold.

You could say the same for the guys; even Junkrat is bishounen. Roadhog is really it for "ugly dudes", and he's just the token fat guy.

I don't see it as an issue, really.

Mind you, scars are cool and all, but I'm not gonna raise a fuss about it. Even if Ashe is basically just one lip scar and red hair off my Fallout 4 go-to character.

[Chromascope3D]

You could say the same for the guys; even Junkrat is bishounen. Roadhog is really it for "ugly dudes", and he's just the token fat guy.

I don't see it as an issue, really.

Mind you, scars are cool and all, but I'm not gonna raise a fuss about it. Even if Ashe is basically just one lip scar and red hair off my Fallout 4 go-to character.

Maybe, but the dudes also have a gorilla, a hamster, and two male-coded omnics. Also, a guy with dwarfism. The chicks have one female-coded omnic, and the rest are all fairly conventional, fairly slender human women with Disney faces. And sure, there are some variations in face and body type, but they never seem to be allowed to stray too many degrees away from the baseline (i.e. unconventional face but conventional body, or conventional face but unconventional body, and certainly nothing that tests the bounds of realism). So, please excuse me if I'm a little disappointed that not only is this character following the same basic formula, but, apparently, so too will the new robot character whenever she comes out.

[GolemsVoice]

Maybe, but the dudes also have a gorilla, a hamster, and two male-coded omnics. Also, a guy with dwarfism. The chicks have one female-coded omnic, and the rest are all fairly conventional, fairly slender human women with Disney faces. And sure, there are some variations in face and body type, but they never seem to be allowed to stray too many degrees away from the baseline (i.e. unconventional face but conventional body, or conventional face but unconventional body, and certainly nothing that tests the bounds of realism). So, please excuse me if I'm a little disappointed that not only is this character following the same basic formula, but, apparently, so too will the new robot character whenever she comes out.

Did you forget Zarya, who not only has a body builder physique, but also has a scar above her right eye?

[Rising Phoenix]

Yeah I am decidedly meh, for the new character...

We need more male healers and Echo is going to probably be support...

[Chromascope3D]

Did you forget Zarya, who not only has a body builder physique, but also has a scar above her right eye?

Oh yeah, the fact that I could forget about that really speaks volumes about its significance, huh?

[GolemsVoice]

Oh yeah, the fact that I could forget about that really speaks volumes about its significance, huh?

It just means you forgot a hero.

EDIT: I'm not trying to antagonize you, I just think the point you make isn't as strong as you think it is. There is some merit to it, but I feel like Blizzard has been pretty good about being inclusive with Overwatch, and other people feel the same.

[Keltest]

It just means you forgot a hero.

EDIT: I'm not trying to antagonize you, I just think the point you make isn't as strong as you think it is. There is some merit to it, but I feel like Blizzard has been pretty good about being inclusive with Overwatch, and other people feel the same.

Im pretty sure Symmetra is missing an arm, as well, so its not like the entire female roster is totally unscathed.

… For that matter there are a LOT of people missing limbs in overwatch.

[Kitten Champion]

I'd also like to point out Ana. Who is both above retirement age and rather traumatically disfigured.

On another note, Ashe is a dead ringer for Sally Whitemane.

[Chromascope3D]

It just means you forgot a hero.

EDIT: I'm not trying to antagonize you, I just think the point you make isn't as strong as you think it is. There is some merit to it, but I feel like Blizzard has been pretty good about being inclusive with Overwatch, and other people feel the same.

I did not. I remembered her and placed her under conventional face and unconventional body, because I forgot the scar. However the reason I forgot the scar is because it's out of the way and really doesn't change the fact that she's still very pretty otherwise.

(Though, it does contradict the earlier rationalization that characters shouldn't have scars because they have super healing tech)

All I wanna see is a female character that isn't the same pretty, thin, young lady. Like, sure, they don't all fill all three of those tenets all the time, but usually, even if they're missing one, they've still got the other two: Ana is pretty and thin, Zarya and Mei are pretty and young, and Moira is young and thin. And sure, you can debate the merits of whether or not any of them qualify under that, but to me, that only highlights the underlying problem. Give us a giant blob of a woman, or a small dwarf woman, or a giant flying head. Or an animal. Or, i dunno, make Mama Hong a reality. Make it so that it shouldn't even need to be debatable or reached for because the variety is self-evident, is all I'm really asking for.

[Keltest]

I did not. I remembered her and placed her under conventional face and unconventional body, because I forgot the scar. However the reason I forgot the scar is because it's out of the way and really doesn't change the fact that she's still very pretty otherwise.

(Though, it does contradict the earlier rationalization that characters shouldn't have scars because they have super healing tech)

All I wanna see is a female character that isn't the same pretty, thin, young lady. Like, sure, they don't all fill all three of those tenets all the time, but usually, even if they're missing one, they've still got the other two: Ana is pretty and thin, Zarya and Mei are pretty and young, and Moira is young and thin. And sure, you can debate the merits of whether or not any of them qualify under that, but to me, that only highlights the underlying problem. Give us a giant blob of a woman, or a small dwarf woman, or a giant flying head. Or an animal. Or, i dunno, make Mama Hong a reality. Make it so that it shouldn't even need to be debatable or reached for because the variety is self-evident, is all I'm really asking for.

I wouldn't describe Ana as "pretty" at all. Young Ana, maybe, but modern Ana is clearly careworn and also covers half her face because of horrible scarring. So, you know, theres that. And Orisa is young, in as much as age matters for omnics, and is neither conventionally attractive or thin.

[Chromascope3D]

I wouldn't describe Ana as "pretty" at all. Young Ana, maybe, but modern Ana is clearly careworn and also covers half her face because of horrible scarring. So, you know, theres that. And Orisa is young, in as much as age matters for omnics, and is neither conventionally attractive or thin.

I did mention Orisa earlier in that the women's side has one non human character and and the men's side has three, plus a variety of men that don't fall under the standard body or facial type. Orisa is great, but she is the exception that proves the rule.

And as I said, you can debate the merits of whether or not any of those labels apply, but I believe that doing so underscores the underlying problem, in that you don't even need to have a debate for 9 of the 14 male characters on whether or not they look like a conventional person.

[Keltest]

I did mention Orisa earlier in that the women's side has one non human character and and the men's side has three, plus a variety of men that don't fall under the standard body or facial type. Orisa is great, but she is the exception that proves the rule.

And as I said, you can debate the merits of whether or not any of those labels apply, but I believe that doing so underscores the underlying problem, in that you don't even need to have a debate for 9 of the 14 male characters on whether or not they look like a conventional person.

I mean, all of the humans who have nonconventional appearances are explicitly maimed, so I think this is, frankly, more a problem of you having a double standard for Ana than her actually being pretty.

[Chromascope3D]

I mean, all of the humans who have nonconventional appearances are explicitly maimed, so I think this is, frankly, more a problem of you having a double standard for Ana than her actually being pretty.

Ah, of course, I am the problem here. Thank you for enlightening me.

What are you actually trying to say here that contradicts what I've said? Are you suggesting that because Ana has some scars, it makes up for the fact that the male side has a robot (debatably two), a gorilla, a hamster, a giant blob man, and a dwarf man? Because, if we include Ana because she's old and has scars, I also have to add in 76, Reyes, and Reinhardt to counter that, and probably Genji too, since he also wears a mask to cover his scars, which still gives heavy advantage to the men.

[Keltest]

Ah, of course, I am the problem here. Thank you for enlightening me.

What are you actually trying to say here that contradicts what I've said? Are you suggesting that because Ana has some scars, it makes up for the fact that the male side has a robot (debatably two), a gorilla, a hamster, a giant blob man, and a dwarf man? Because, if we include Ana because she's old and has scars, I also have to add in 76, Reyes, and Reinhardt to counter that, and probably Genji too, since he also wears a mask to cover his scars, which still gives heavy advantage to the men.

There are more men period, so, im not sure what your point is. Yes, if you compare the numbers directly, there are more unattractive men because there are more men. But that's a stupid comparison if youre trying to make the point that women are all untainted bastions of beauty or whatever.

And its not like there aren't any attractive male characters. Pretty much all of them that aren't maimed in some way (and even several who are) are conventionally attractive except Torb. Heck, even Rein has a grizzled dignity to his features, and Junkrat could be quite handsome if he cared to clean himself up enough.

[Chromascope3D]

There are more men period, so, im not sure what your point is. Yes, if you compare the numbers directly, there are more unattractive men because there are more men. But that's a stupid comparison if youre trying to make the point that women are all untainted bastions of beauty or whatever.

And its not like there aren't any attractive male characters. Pretty much all of them that aren't maimed in some way (and even several who are) are conventionally attractive except Torb. Heck, even Rein has a grizzled dignity to his features, and Junkrat could be quite handsome if he cared to clean himself up enough.

But I don't want them to be unattractive for the sake of making them unattractive, I want there to be visual variety among their ranks. I didn't highlight those male haracters because they're "ugly," i highlighted them because they're very bizarre and nonstandard in a delightfully cartoonish way that the female characters just aren't. And it's just boring to me, to see such very similar characters trotted out every few months that it's hard for me to get excited about it. Sure, making more "ugly" women is a start, but it's not the end goal.

[Keltest]

But I don't want them to be unattractive for the sake of making them unattractive, I want there to be visual variety among their ranks. I didn't highlight those male haracters because they're "ugly," i highlighted them because they're very bizarre and nonstandard in a delightfully cartoonish way that the female characters just aren't. And it's just boring to me, to see such very similar characters trotted out every few months that it's hard for me to get excited about it. Sure, making more "ugly" women is a start, but it's not the end goal.

Symmetra is missing an arm. Sombra and Moira seem to be cyborgs of some kind. Orisa is a giant robot centaur thing. Widowmaker is blue. Zarya is a bodybuilder. Ashe appears to be an albino. More than half the female cast deviate from the human norm in some way.

[GolemsVoice]

Zarya's scars are part of her icon (the spray). So they're not exactly "invisible". Symmetra is also (lightly) autistic, and how often do you see that in ANY video game character? Moira is heterochromatic, and has a veiny, pale left hand. Also, while she's thin, she isn't exactly a classic beauty, I'd say.

[Chromascope3D]

I'll say it again:

The chicks have one female-coded omnic, and the rest are all fairly conventional, fairly slender human women with Disney faces. And sure, there are some variations in face and body type, but they never seem to be allowed to stray too many degrees away from the baseline (i.e. unconventional face but conventional body, or conventional face but unconventional body, and certainly nothing that tests the bounds of realism).

Emphasis mine.

[Keltest]

I'll say it again:

Emphasis mine.

You don't think a giant centaur-robot or a pair of cyborgs push realism?

[GolemsVoice]

I just checked the official Overwatch hero roster, Bastion is referred to as "it", interestingly.

[Keltest]

I just checked the official Overwatch hero roster, Bastion is referred to as "it", interestingly.

Bastions, from my understanding, are not proper omnics, but rather simple combat AIs. Its sapient, but not the same way Zen is.

[GolemsVoice]

Bastions, from my understanding, are not proper omnics, but rather simple combat AIs. Its sapient, but not the same way Zen is.

They could still be coded male, though, that is having attributes or behaviour traditionally thought as "male".

But how about we drop the whole thing? I don't think we'll be getting anywhere, and there's little point in annoying each other.

[Keltest]

They could still be coded male, though, that is having attributes or behaviour traditionally thought as "male".

But how about we drop the whole thing? I don't think we'll be getting anywhere, and there's little point in annoying each other.

If you wish, though im not sure I understand your point.

[GolemsVoice]

If you wish, though im not sure I understand your point.

I meant the whole discussion My point was just that something doesn't necessarily have to fully sentient to have gendered characteristics.

But closer to what you said, yeah, Bastions aren't fully sentient, not like Zenyatta. Come to think of it, I wonder if Null Sector omnics like the AR-14 are sentient?