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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Planes of Law

    Default Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Welcome to Round 25 of the Villainous Competition!

    Previous Competitions
    Round One: Leader of Armies
    Round Two: Nature's Revenger
    Round Three: Double Agent
    Round Four: Grave Keeper
    Round Five: Crime Lord
    Round Six: Ultimate Predator
    Round Seven: Wicked Witch
    Round Eight: Master of the Tundra
    Round Nine: The Power of Villainous Thinking
    Round Ten: Henchman Are Villains Too
    Round Eleven: The Higher They Rise The Harder They Fall
    Round Twelve: Power Comes at a Price
    Round Thirteen: The Gadgeteer - You Are Not Batman
    Round Fourteen: The Thing That Should Not Be
    Round Fifteen: The Horsemen Are Drawing Nearer
    Round Sixteen: Burn Baby Burn
    Round Seventeen: It's Alive!
    Round Eighteen: This is Heresy
    Round Nineteen: He Slimed Me!
    Round Twenty: Elder Evil
    Round Twenty-One: Yarr!
    Round Twenty-Two: I Am The Night!
    Round Twenty-Three: Two Heads Are Better Than One!
    Round Twenty-Four: Wrong For The Right Reasons!

    We're a little different than most of the optimization threads. We run on CR instead of ECL.

    Contestants:
    You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5 CR, 10 CR 15 CR, 20 CR, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20 CR build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Secret Laboratory:
    Competitors will be free to use any official 1st party (WotC) 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Unupdated 3.0 materials, as well as web exclusives by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. Leadership and all similar abilities are banned for sanity reasons.
    Builds that are fully monstrous are allowed at no penalty. All class levels are to be added on as associated class levels.

    Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) is the assumed ability score generation method.
    Some monstrous characters can technically qualify for Epic feats as soon as their ECL is over 20. While regular Epic feats will be allowed, Epic Spellcasting and all other Epic feats that affect spells, psionic powers, or item creation are not permitted. Including these would give an unfair advantage over standard characters. For Incarnum characters, Epic Open Chakra feats are allowed; other Epic Incarnum feats are not. The Essentia Capacity increases for Epic capacity as described on p. 212. For all characters, please note that Racial Hit Dice do not count towards Epic Progression; use the regular progression even if the BAB ends up higher than 20.

    Deadlines:
    Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Wednesday February 28th to create their builds and PM them to the Supreme Chancellor. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 GMT Wednesday March 14th to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. Deadlines are subject to extension as/if required.

    Judging:
    Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Build Elegance, Competence and Power, Memorable Villainy.
    Keep these questions in mind when judging each category:
    Originality - Is it unexpected?
    Build Elegance - Is it mechanically pretty?
    Competence and Power - Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
    Memorable Villainy - Is this a villain with style? Will it be the BBEG players long to finally kill and then talk about for weeks?
    Unearthed Arcana can be penalized for elegance if the specific feature seems unnecessary or makes the playing field unfair (In this case, you can give a 1 if it makes the field unfair.)
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    You may not judge if you entered the contest, unless you withdraw your submission.

    Presentation:
    Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

    Note:
    There is now a hard limit on two (2) entries per competitor.

    Using the table below, the easiest way to use it is to go to the top left of the private message, and click the little a/A icon. It allows you to see what you're writing.
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    CR Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]CR[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    You can use the table below for Spells.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code Immediately Below,
    Spoiler
    Show

    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]


    Speculation:
    Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
    Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.

    Get ready to share those Evil thoughts. This edition’s villain is:

    Keeper of the Gate
    You! Shall! Not! Pass!


    Limitations


    • Must be a guardian spirit, warden, or other entity protecting or blocking access to a specific place.
    • As almost always, must be evil in alignment.


    We will award 1st through 3rd places, and a possible Honorable Mention.
    So, start your evil plotting!

    Submission:
    To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:

    PM: Inevitability
    Subject: Villainous Competition 25, Name of your Entry
    For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.
    More questions? PM me with Villainous Competition 25 Questions in the header.

    Tips for submitting your entry, provided by Weaselguy:

    - Use capitalization and punctuation, correctly.
    - Make good use of Spoilers, for cleanliness.
    - Don't forget your sources. If it's something that can be found in the contents section, then book title seems to be fine. Obscure stuff, may want to include page number too.
    - DeviantArt has about 9 billion pictures that you can reference, I can almost guarantee you can find one there to fit your character.
    - Make good use of tables. In addition to the Build table and the Spells table, I like doing one for my Ability Scores, just to keep it neat.
    - Do a build stub at the top of your Build Table, something like Wizard 2/Fighter 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 10
    As always: let's keep it nice.

    I'll mention that again - LET'S KEEP IT NICE! Bickering, name calling and nasty comments on the entries or other forum members are not tolerated.


    New competition rule: if I feel an individual has been overly disruptive during the course of competition discussion, I will not be accepting and revealing any entries from that individual, and they will also not be allowed to judge. Any judging they enter will not be taken into account for the final tally.

    Spoiler
    Show
    It's sad that it had to come to this, but here's a list of permanently banned (from this Villainous Competition) members:

    Novolin
    Yklikt
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-02-28 at 02:05 PM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Planes of Law

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Clarifications

    Unearthed Arcana variant rules are limited: The variant character options (such as Wildshape Ranger and Thug Fighter) should not be penalized. Flaws and traits may be penalized by judges, whereas item familiars, gestalt, alternate skill systems, alternate magic systems, alternate crafting rules, generic base classes, LA buyoff, fractional saves/BAB, and bloodlines are banned. Anything not mentioned here is up to individual judges.

    d20 Rokugan is not allowed material.

    The Dragon Magazine update for Oriental Adventures is in use.

    Leadership is banned. Any material that grants you leadership without you specifically taking it should be ignored and may not be traded away for another feat or ACF. Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort are likewise banned. Wild Cohort and Obtain Familiar are allowed. If you are not sure if a specific feat violates the 'no leadership' rule, err on the side of caution, or ask me.

    However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.

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    Everyone, have fun!
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-02-19 at 05:38 AM.
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I'm up to enter for this one. :)
    I finally have the time to write something up
    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I'm in but you should probably update the deadline.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Okay, I've got some thoughts for this one. Definitely going to try to get a build in.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I might have something for this one.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    I'm in but you should probably update the deadline.
    It has been fixed!
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    I'm in but you should probably update the deadline.
    Heck no! Giving people a full 10 months makes it so they have no excuse asking for an extension.
    And 10 months to plan and build means we should see some fairly powerful Villians :D
    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=114

    Honorable Mention Villainous Competition 22: I Am The Night
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-Night!/page6 Xihu Ayame

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    Thumbs up Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I am 100% down to cook for this!

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Oh nice, this is back in action. Interesting concept, hopefully inspiration will strike in time for me to submit an entry.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    mmmm yes precious yes
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I have a weird idea that would probably get a 1 on competence/power/flexibility, but I'm sure I'd be having a blast making should I be able to squeeze some time
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Also, I should probably inform people the leadership ban has been modified slightly: feel free to check the second post for details.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I just cracked 2 eggs.
    The spewed some strangely slimy stuff. Maybe I can make something doorblocking out of that. ^^
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I'm not super into competing in this one. depending on the number of entries, I may be down to judge again.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I'm down to build for this round.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Interesting idea. I'd like to be able to get something down for this.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I am also interested in this. I'll start working on a build, but might not get done in time. In which case, I'd be more than happy to judge.
    WINNER! Villainous Competition XXXII: Selene, Bride of Ruin
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    If we take a template like half-fiend on creatures that advance by HD like Aberrations, does that count as advancing as a outsider or aberration?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by White Blade View Post
    If we take a template like half-fiend on creatures that advance by HD like Aberrations, does that count as advancing as a outsider or aberration?
    Depends on the specific template.

    If a template changes the base creature’s type, the creature also acquires the augmented subtype unless the template description indicates otherwise. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. Unless a template indicates otherwise, the new creature has the traits of the new type but the features of the original type.
    'Features' include stuff like BAB, saving throws, and racial skill points, so something like a half-fiend otyugh would still get aberration RHD when being advanced. However, if the template specifically doesn't give something the augmented subtype (skeleton and zombie are amongst the ones that do), use the new type's RHD when advancing.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Depends on the specific template.



    'Features' include stuff like BAB, saving throws, and racial skill points, so something like a half-fiend otyugh would still get aberration RHD when being advanced. However, if the template specifically doesn't give something the augmented subtype (skeleton and zombie are amongst the ones that do), use the new type's RHD when advancing.
    I apologize for being unclear on this, I mean for advancing CR.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    If the respective Being has rules for advancing via RHD of the respective type, it does. Otherwise youc ant advance them that way and "have to" use classes.

    Otherwise, Inevetabilities answer also answers the rest pretty well. :)
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I've asked this same question in the RAW thread before many moons ago: there is no clear answer.

    I think what White Blade is asking, to give an example, would be does a Half-fiend Beholder's CR increase by +1 per 2 RHD (as per Outsider), or +1 per 4 RHD (as Aberration, it's base creature type).

    It's probably best to use your judgement, depending how much the creature is benefiting from it's RHD.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I've asked this same question in the RAW thread before many moons ago: there is no clear answer.

    I think what White Blade is asking, to give an example, would be does a Half-fiend Beholder's CR increase by +1 per 2 RHD (as per Outsider), or +1 per 4 RHD (as Aberration, it's base creature type).

    It's probably best to use your judgement, depending how much the creature is benefiting from it's RHD.
    Yeah, that's what I was asking. Thank you for the answer.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I've asked this same question in the RAW thread before many moons ago: there is no clear answer.

    I think what White Blade is asking, to give an example, would be does a Half-fiend Beholder's CR increase by +1 per 2 RHD (as per Outsider), or +1 per 4 RHD (as Aberration, it's base creature type).

    It's probably best to use your judgement, depending how much the creature is benefiting from it's RHD.
    It's still basically getting aberration HD, right? Doesn't seem like that'd warrant the CR increase for outsider RHD.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    It's still basically getting aberration HD, right? Doesn't seem like that'd warrant the CR increase for outsider RHD.
    Another way to look at it is to ask if the template inherited or applied. Did the creature ever really know of existence as a different type of critter?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    I don't think the rules are completely clear on that part of that, but let's take an example. So say you have a creature that was originally a Magical Beast, who changes to a Dragon by gaining a template. The creature's Type changes from Magical Beast, to Dragon (Augmented Magical Beast). The creature's current features (i.e. attack bonus, saves, hit dice, skill points) don't change, but its traits do (it now has immunity to sleep and paralysis, etc).

    Most templates make it explicit that the features don't change; they have text saying things like, "don't recalculate hit points, saves, skill points." That's just reiterating the general rule that features don't change. There are a few exceptions, like the already-mentioned skeletons and zombies, where the template specifically says to change the dice to d12s.

    Now that the creature has a new Type, it's not totally clear what would happen in advancement. Personally I think that any racial hit dice would belong to the new type. It wouldn't make sense for it to gain hit dice of a Type that it no longer possesses; but the rules don't state this explicitly.

    EDIT: Regarding CR, I'd think that the Magical Beast HD would count a +1 CR per 3, and any Dragon HD would count as +1 CR per 2. So if it's Magical Beast 9/Dragon 4 on a CR 1 base creature and a CR +1 template, it would be CR 7.
    Last edited by Telonius; 2018-02-07 at 09:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    I don't think the rules are completely clear on that part of that, but let's take an example. So say you have a creature that was originally a Magical Beast, who changes to a Dragon by gaining a template. The creature's Type changes from Magical Beast, to Dragon (Augmented Magical Beast). The creature's current features (i.e. attack bonus, saves, hit dice, skill points) don't change, but its traits do (it now has immunity to sleep and paralysis, etc).

    Most templates make it explicit that the features don't change; they have text saying things like, "don't recalculate hit points, saves, skill points." That's just reiterating the general rule that features don't change. There are a few exceptions, like the already-mentioned skeletons and zombies, where the template specifically says to change the dice to d12s.

    Now that the creature has a new Type, it's not totally clear what would happen in advancement. Personally I think that any racial hit dice would belong to the new type. It wouldn't make sense for it to gain hit dice of a Type that it no longer possesses; but the rules don't state this explicitly.
    unless you are applying the template to an advanced CR magical beast. it would have to be an acquired template, but you can advance the original type first, then the template acquisition, then advancing as the new type.

    inherited templates tho, it makes sense to advance the template type: the creature was never something else. it was a born half fiend or whatever.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    unless you are applying the template to an advanced CR magical beast. it would have to be an acquired template, but you can advance the original type first, then the template acquisition, then advancing as the new type.

    inherited templates tho, it makes sense to advance the template type: the creature was never something else. it was a born half fiend or whatever.
    Yeah, the thing with inherited templates is that you get the template as soon as you exist, so there'd be no advancing the original creature. You would do whatever the template says for the traits. So if you had a half-dragon giant squid, the template explicitly says to keep the saves and attack bonuses, but modify the skills (to 6xInt) and hit dice (moving them up by one size), plus all of the other Half-Dragon stuff. The type is now Dragon (Augmented Aquatic Animal), the CR would be (9+2) = 11.

    Advancing any further by RHD would use Dragon hit dice and count as +1CR per 2 HD.

    (Apologies if I ruined someone's half-dragon giant squid entry).
    Last edited by Telonius; 2018-02-07 at 10:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

    To add to what others are saying, I agree that CR bumps from advancing RHD would depend on the type of creature it is when the advancement happens. For inherited templates that change type, there's no issue. The creature was born with the template, so the type it grants is what is used for any RHD advancement. For acquired templates, things are a little more fiddly, as the creature may advance by RHD before it gets the template (which would follow the CR rules for the type it was before the template), and it may advance by RHD after it gets the template (which would follow the CR rules for the new type). Making it clear what type each advancement falls under would be a nice thing to do to make it easier on the judges too.
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