Elfshot (Brainstorming)

[johnbragg]

BLUF: I want my elves to be the glamor-ous, beautiful, terrifying, dreamscapish creatures of British Isles folklore, rooted in the Feywild. Or at least they used to be not too long ago, in the days of most NPCs' grandparents, much like in lazy American popular imagination all Germans are still Nazis and all Frenchmen are baguette-eating mimes dressed in black-and-white horizontal stripes. This seems really cool, but what I probably need is to be told, mechanically, why it's actually terrible.

In the British Isles (and likely elsewhere), Stone Age arrowheads (and axe-heads) were believed to be elf- or pixie-made arrowheads. I want to make that mechanically real in a 3X context. My elves don't use metal (cold iron myth, extended to steel), they are masters of High (magically enhanced) Neolithic stonecraft, making, polishing and mildly enchanting flint (or some magical super-flint) into elvenstone. Not using steel helps make Elves alien and different, but would cripple them mechanically if we don't put in a workaround. But fortunately, the same lore that says "cold iron blocks elves" also says "flint chips are elf arrowheads."

Mechanically, elvenstone items are masterwork, so they get a +1 to attack rolls. I figure this offsets being limited to spears, axes, bows, quarterstaffs and club-type weapons. (Detail: is Elvenstone strong enough to hold up to use as a battleaxe? EDIT: No.)

PFSRD has a Primitive Weapons section, including Stone. They are Fragile, which means that on a natural 1 they are Broken (-2 to attack & damage, destroyed on a natural 1). So that's all wonderful. PC elves are using elvenstone weapons--arrowheads, axeheads, spearpoints.

They Craft them from found flint, sing to them (perform check?), polish them with oils (alchemy?). I think that's unfair--I'm already slapping a Skill tax on elves (I may give them a bonus Skill point-per-level as a "tax refund.") Roll the eldritch singing and the crushing of the acorns to make honing oil and all that into the Craft (elvenstone) skill. But keep the fluff--the fluff is the whole point.

Masterwork items cost an extra 300 gp. Usual Craft rules apply (maybe ignore the base cost of the weapon). But the usual rules require 100gp worth of raw materials. That goes against the neo-Neolithic flavor. If there's enough of an elvenstone -based economy (in coin or in favors), the PC can probably diplomancy up some new weapons rather than having to craft their own.

What do we think of a separate Craft (elvenstone) check to find the proper flints and the right types of acorns for the oil? Use the same time-to-GP (time-to-SP, but that's just a matter of algebra) Masterwork tools wouldn't apply to this check. Environmental penalties and bonuses would apply, though.

Spoiler: cold iron

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I haven't decided whether "elves don't use cold iron/steel" is a mechanical penalty or a social and maybe magical one.

I could just slap a -2 to attack rolls on an elf using a steel weapon (or armor) and call it a day.
I could hardwire in a big social penalty. An elf using steel is a renegade, and regarded by other elves with horror, and even non-elves are going to wonder what else they're capable of.

EDIT: Mechanics.
An elvenstone warhead or set of 20 arrowheads is a masterwork flint item. Creating it requires two DC 20 Craft (elvenstone) checks, one to gather the materials and one to shape the stone, polish it and sing the sharpness into it.
After elvenstone is created, it must be activated. This requires singing to the stone and sharpening it and polishing it with special oils. Activation must be renewed regularly, as it fades after 1-6 days. An elf with the Craft (elvenstone) skill can keep a number of warheads activated equal to the bonus to his Craft (elvenstone) check. So a run-of-the-mill 1st level NPC elf would have 4 warheads active, while a 3rd level veteran with a 15 Intelligence might have 8 (3 ranks + 3 class bonus + 2 Intelligence) or more if she has other modifiers.

20 arrowheads count as one warhead.

[khadgar567]

so our elves are still primitive pricks they are in many books. when i read the title my mind goes to what celebrimbor shot in shadow of war instead of high neolithic stone singers as elves whats next group sing to summon monsters from neolithic tablets yu g ioh style.

[aimlessPolymath]

Hm.

Do note that PCs rarely craft their own items, and especially not nonmagical ones.

Craft(elvenstone) sounds like a perfectly fine skill on its own. To avoid skill tax, maybe let this skill do double duty as a Perform skill as well?

I'm slightly leery of letting them ignore what seems to be the entire crafting cost of the item. Perhaps only a finite number of items can be created each year or so?

[johnbragg]

Hm.

Do note that PCs rarely craft their own items, and especially not nonmagical ones.

Right, because they can buy them in the normal economy. If elvenstone were the kind of thing you could buy and sell, you lose most of the fluff. If elves can't use "cold iron" because weaboo bad juju, but they can just buy elvenstone, that's a money tax on elf PCs. That's not freaky, that's like buying gluten-free instead of regular.

Craft(elvenstone) sounds like a perfectly fine skill on its own. To avoid skill tax, maybe let this skill do double duty as a Perform skill as well?

I'm slightly leery of letting them ignore what seems to be the entire crafting cost of the item. Perhaps only a finite number of items can be created each year or so?

My thought was that the crafting cost is paid in time. But time is an entirely unpredictable (and DM dependent) resource. I think the back of my head was thinking that elves would spend time every day polishing and singing to their elvenstones to keep them sharp, and to produce new ones. Maybe that's the cap--to keep elvenstone at performance level, it has to be maintained frequently. And there's a cap on how much elvenstone you can have "active", which would include enough to have backups without creating a market in surplus elvenstone.

So let's see. A mildly extravagant PC is going to have a main weapon and a backup (smaller) weapon, a backup for his main weapon, and say 100 arrows (more than usual, because he knows they're hard to replace. You've got arrowheads, light weapons, one-handed, and maybe two-handed.
Light: Dagger, handaxe/throwing axe
One-handed: Shortspear, javelin, battleaxe, mace
Two-handed: Longspear, greataxe, greatclub.

I'm breaking from Paizo's rules here--they're talking about Stone weapons in general, I'm talking about flint weapons that have to keep an edge. So big bashy weapons don't fit.

So a well-equipped elf warrior should have a longspear, some javelins or throwing axes, a shortspear or a battleaxe, and a couple of daggers. Plus a lot of arrowheads.

I think it's simplest to just count weaponheads, and count 20 arrowheads as one weaponhead. So just like most DMs handwave that the wizard has a pouch full of miscellaneous spell components, the elf is assumed to have a bunch of good quality flint in his flintknapping kit. He also has X amount of "activated" elvenstone warheads--main weapon, backup weapon, 2 thrown weapons, quiver of arrows makes 5. So maybe the Craft check keys to how many warheads you have "activated"? Needs work

[johnbragg]

I think it's simplest to just count weaponheads, and count 20 arrowheads as one weaponhead. So just like most DMs handwave that the wizard has a pouch full of miscellaneous spell components, the elf is assumed to have a bunch of good quality flint in his flintknapping kit. He also has X amount of "activated" elvenstone warheads--main weapon, backup weapon, 2 thrown weapons, quiver of arrows makes 5. So maybe the Craft check keys to how many warheads you have "activated"? Needs work

I have a mechanic that I think is elegant. Your bonus to Craft (elvenstone) rolls is how many warheads you can keep activated. So a first-level mook NPC warrior is probably going to have 4 warheads (1 rank plus class bonus, Pathfinder style)--main melee weapon, backup melee weapon, quiver of arrows, one extra. An elite 3rd level NPC elf warrior is going to have 6, maybe 7-8 depending on his Intelligence score. (Craft bonuses, masterwork tools, spell bonuses, what have you will work. The point is that there is some limit, and that limit is not enough to equip the party with masterwork weapons at first level.)

If not maintained, elvenstone loses activation after, oh let's say 1-6 days.

NOTE: Elf barbarians wielding stone-headed greatclubs are perfectly feasible. But those don't have to be activated elvenstone. It's a big honking rock on a stick, it doesn't need to hold an edge.

[johnbragg]

Hm.

Do note that PCs rarely craft their own items, and especially not nonmagical ones.

Craft(elvenstone) sounds like a perfectly fine skill on its own. To avoid skill tax, maybe let this skill do double duty as a Perform skill as well?

It should definitely give a synergy bonus to Perform, and maybe to Craft (Alchemy).

[rferries]

I quite liked the references to the Children in GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire. Small, secretive forest-dwellers wearing copper-scale armour, using obsidian arrowheads (effective against undead but less so against mortals), and having powerful druidic magic (shapechanging into animals and even terraforming vast landmasses during their war against the humans). I'm sure he drew inspiration from your sources.

[Morphic tide]

Rather than having a specific Craft(Elvenstone) skill, it could be a more broad thing, Stonesong or something, that has special crafting applications that aren't solely Elfstone creation. Stuff like making consumable Runes, for instance. Or a Dwarven version of such a process.