Results 1 to 30 of 31
Thread: Drow Bard/Paladin...
-
2007-08-28, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Gender
Drow Bard/Paladin...
...needless to say, a quirky character. This is what I'm workin' on for our next game, which is just over a week from now. We're experimenting with doing a gestalt game, for the record, so it's not a Bard that multiclasses, just a (female) Drow Bard who's also a Paladin :P
Paladin of Freedom, that is (CG variant version of the Paladin). Who worships Elistrae.
If you examine some of the ol' details, it actually fits oddly well. Thematically it works, since Elistrae's a CG Drow goddess who's very... pro-music, I guess is a good way to put it.
Being a Drow gives me an easy way to explain how I worship a Drow goddess, and also gives me a Cha bonus to boot, which will help me in both my Paladin and Bard roles, since both work better with a high Cha.
So yeah. A Drow Paladin, who worships a Good goddess that likes to dance naked in the moonlight, who fights to protect freedom... and sings while doing it.
This should be fun.
Comments? Questions? Desire to tell me I'm rather strange?
-Runa
*...and yes, I do plan to at least eventually take that feat that allows me to not get blinded by the pretty bright light; I'm not quite that much of a newbie!"Go, my undead minions! Save the children! " - (Myboyfriendnow-husband, on how he planned to play a Dread Necromancer.)
Stick-style avatar courtesy of the ever-awesome kpenguin. (If you're curious as to who it is of, she's from Watchmen)
-
2007-08-28, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Trogland.Texas.DFW-ish
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Sounds interesting, and not in a bad way.
Just remember you'll have to worry about arcane spell failure if you're wearing medium or heavy armor (unless you take the Battle Caster feat from Complete Arcane). Other than that, I think they should complement each other fairly well. You might consider the Extra Music feat and the Bardic Music feats from Complete Adventurer: Chant of Fortitude, Ironskin Chant and Lyric Spell.I have returned!! Not that most of y'all know whom I am.
Mega-Awesome Avatar done by Dawn!
The Many Faces of GimliFett.
-
2007-08-28, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- *stab*
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
We are Drow! Drow in tights!
Last edited by Solo; 2007-08-28 at 03:22 PM.
-
2007-08-28, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- where dreams are made
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
as long as you stay away from becoming a ranger, getting 2 scimitars, and a puma
your goodSpoiler
sig by Bitzeralisis
Old Avatar by Simius
new Avatar by Qwernt
Tiger Paladin of HALO
-
2007-08-28, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
In my opinion, there are two ways of being a Bard: either Searcher of the Song or Sublime Chord.
First way: go Dervish to gain the ability to move, a full attack and dance/sing while you do. I'd take Scout for hyper optimization.
Basically: TWF, smite, inspire courage and use a Searcher of the Song big blast in a single round. Counsels: PHBII has a Combat Dancer feat thing that's really good. And I suggest only dipping in Bard and stack Bard/Pally levels with the feat. Use other progression to get PrCs and bonus feats.
Secod Way: Nifty high level spellcasting is nice. I suggest Lyric Thaumaturge before entering SCh; also, after taking it you can choose between ECL 20 cosmic fire and a multiclassing Archmage/things. Take 2nd SCh level to gain the song of arcane might.Useless arcane powers are better than no arcane powers!
Avatar mercifully granted by Threeshades
-
2007-08-28, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- Back in the USSR
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
You'll want the following feats:
Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn). +Cha mod to attack for a number of rounds equal to your Perform(Dance) ranks, fatigue for ten minutes afterward. It also meshes perfectly with the flavor of Eilistrae's priesthood.
Divine Might. +Cha mod to damage for a round, uses a Turn Undead attempt.
Divine Shield. +Cha mod to AC for Cha mod rounds, uses a Turn Undead attempt.
If you can do all of this while dual-wielding a one-handed weapon and a shield (Requires TWF+Improved Shield Bash, or Shield Specialization+Improved Shield Bash+Agile Shield Fighter), even better. You're probably too feat-starved as a +2 LA nonhuman to manage that, though.
Basically, during several combats per day, you're adding your charisma modifier to attack, damage, and AC, and to your saves permanently with divine grace. It's a neat trick that only Bardadins can really pull off.
Also consider Devoted Performer. It's not necessary to your build like to a Bard/traditional Paladin, but stacking levels for Smiting (which is +Cha to your attack again, by the way) damage and Bardic Music uses is still useful.Spoiler
Stealthy Snake avatar by Dawn
Lack of images by Imageshack
-
2007-08-28, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Lost in L-Space
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Daylight Adaption isn't worth one of your precious few feat slots. Sure, it avoids being dazzled in bright light and blinded for one round when it comes suddenly. But you still take the extra damage from spells like Sunburst.
I'd say deal with it. Get a nice hooded cloak and some amazingly cool sunglasses. There are far better feats that can help you offensively or defensively.The Countess of Mispelling hath returned !__________________________________________________ _________Behold my magnetoresistance !
Outer Sphere__________________________________________________ _______________Inkatar !__________________________________________________ _______________Starship
Spoiler
-
2007-08-28, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- reality... except not
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
1. why does noone ever play a neutral or evil drow?
2. that spelling of the word implies that you are, just admit it, and have fun with it
3. looks like an interesting character, but ya, unless your drowning in extra feats, some cool sunglasses a nocturnal lifestyle or a nice hood work almost as well, and dont cost a feat
4. if its not a gestalt character then there might be some problems with multiclassing...
-
2007-08-28, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Fairfield, CA
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Might I suggest my rebalanced Paladin, instead of the questionable Paladin of Freedom? You'll still be able to be CG, but you'll also be able to better define your personal code.
Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class
-
2007-08-28, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- reality... except not
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
rebalanced paladin looks a bit stricter, like free exalted vow feats, which would be excelent for a lawful paladin but for CG paladin the paladin of freedom variant or holy liberator presteige class are the best choices, because they fit the alignment
-
2007-08-28, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
I wanted to try out Paladin of Freedom, which requires a CG alignment, I wanted an unusual but fun build so picked Bard, etc.
A Neutral drow might be fun though.
As for the evil alignment - exactly how many parties go evil? :P
2. that spelling of the word implies that you are, just admit it, and have fun with it
3. looks like an interesting character, but ya, unless your drowning in extra feats, some cool sunglasses a nocturnal lifestyle or a nice hood work almost as well, and dont cost a feat
4. if its not a gestalt character then there might be some problems with multiclassing...
In fact, the whole reason I picked the Bard/Paladin thing was other people in the group wanted to try gestalt, and the DM said, rightly, that it would be unbalanced if only one or two people were gestalt so we all ended up deciding to go gestalt. Then of course, I wanted to come up with the most amusingly quirky gestalt combo I could think of. I pretty much started from "Bard/Something" and went from there. ;) (I've always wanted to play a Bard, for some reason)
-RunaLast edited by Runa; 2007-08-28 at 07:52 PM.
"Go, my undead minions! Save the children! " - (Myboyfriendnow-husband, on how he planned to play a Dread Necromancer.)
Stick-style avatar courtesy of the ever-awesome kpenguin. (If you're curious as to who it is of, she's from Watchmen)
-
2007-08-28, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
I like the idea of a Bard/Paladin of Freedom, though I think a Bard/Cleric probably fits Elistraee's clergy better (in a Gestalt world, anyway).
-
2007-08-28, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- reality... except not
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
hey for quirky... paladin/paladin of slaughter! or not
and evil characters are funnest when the whole party isnt evil........ really a questionably neutral character works well there too... havent you ever read OOTS? belkar adds to the fun... and it works like that in any REAL campaign as well... in a FR campaign im in a party that had a paladin of tyr a neutral cleric (well actually mystic theurge) of mask, and the rest of the party pretty much balanced at true neutral. good campaign, as long as the DM is fine not having every single event be about random encounters or a pre-written story its good. interparty conflict smash... i mean good.
but if you want to play a drow, i think you have to be good aligned... otherwise the gaming gods eat your soulLast edited by tannish2; 2007-08-28 at 11:49 PM.
-
2007-08-28, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Piercing the heavens!
- Gender
-
2007-08-29, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Extradimensional pocket...with the lint.
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Just a note, I would go either Bard/Seeker of Song//Paladin of Freedom or Bard/Lyric Thaumaturge/Sublime Chord//Paladin of Freedom.
Actually, if it were me, I'd go with:
Bard//Drow (until your LA is gone)
Bard//PoF (until you can be a LT)
LT//PoF (until level 10)
SC//PoF
But that's just me.
Also, have you heard of the Marshall class. It would have some pretty good synnergy with the bard class, if I remember correctly.Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
-
2007-08-29, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- reality... except not
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
i think it specifically states that marshal things dont stack with bard things... not completely sure though
-
2007-08-29, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Icy Evil Canadia
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Eilistraee is one of my favorite FR deities.
-
2007-08-29, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- mother of all saints
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
A shot in the dark, but doesn't making a fun build more important than a good build when the subject matter is Drow Bard/Paladin? I'll assume so. For the daylight adaptation, go nocturnal. More fitting for a follower of Eillistree. Also, Dervish would be a cool adition to this build, but be sure to house rule in somethin replacing the twf with Bastard Sword wielding. Harper might make an interesting adition to this build, as would a modified Foluchan Lyricist. Hey, that reminds me, druid might also be fun to slip in there in place of bard for a little bit.
Avatar by Kris on a Stick
-
2007-08-29, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- reality... except not
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
if dervish is used (one of my favorite presteige classes, movement mastery is good, and movement mastery lets you preform with a full attack which would probably make this character functional) please... ask your DM to make it longsword or peircing weapons and rapier(or maybe deitys favored weapon.. which im too lazy to look up right now, ...... so the cliche police and WOTC dont eat your soul)
-
2007-08-29, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Icy Evil Canadia
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
-
2007-08-29, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Icy Evil Canadia
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Oh, and with Eilistraeen focuses on dancing, Bastard-sword Dervish is BEAUTIFUL for this character. The Champions of Valor Eilistraeen substitution levels are for fighter, unfortunately, but they are called "Darksong Knights," and to give you an idea o fthe flavor, include such abilities as:
Dancing Feint - User perform (dance) to feint in combat instead of bluff
Combat Dancing - A Darksong Knight with at least 5 ranks in perform (dance) gains a +2 dodge bonus against attacks of opportunity. If she uses spring attack, she gains a +2 circumstance bonus on the attack roll.
You can see the flavor fits well. I'd try to get the darksong knight substitution levels adapted to your paladin class instead of fighter.Last edited by Talya; 2007-08-29 at 05:42 PM.
-
2007-08-30, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Hmmm... Gestalt changes things alot. Depending on how much strong you weant it you could decide to go Scout/Ranger/Dervish or not.
feats ARE a problem, so I'd recommand taking the Holy Warrior Paladin variant (gives up spellcasting for bonus feats, CCh) and take 5 levels of paladin.
I'd play:
Drow (+2) Bard 1/Scout 4/Ranger +3/Searcher of the Song 10//Paladin 5/Ranger 2/Dervish 10/Ranger +1/Fighter 2
TWF and does LOTS of things in a round.
Taking both Holy Warrior and Natural Warrior (same for Ranger) you have 7 bonus feats, skirmish is at +5d6/+4 (with Improved Skirmish and Swift Hunter), you have godly songs [well, dances] and do lots of attacks in a round.
I recommand Battle Dancer feat (PHBII) because it's practically Melee Weapon Mastery for you. I wouldn't say no to Devoted Entertainer for the bardic music stack (a lot better than Extra Music).
The only feedback is, you don't cast. Except for a few dancing lights and prestidigitations...
Remind: in a round you
-move at your speed (gaining benefits from skirmish, dervish dance, feats etc.)
-make full attack (8ish attacks that deals +5d6 damage plus smites bonuses)
-sing or dance mantaining concentration on two musics at the same time
-activate Searcher of the Song's special abilities to deal a bunch of d6 extra damages (or teleport away if needed, or healing yourself better than a cleric does)
-fight with your mount and animal companionsUseless arcane powers are better than no arcane powers!
Avatar mercifully granted by Threeshades
-
2007-08-31, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Wow, so much response! This'll take a few minutes to respond to, methinks. Let's see if I can address as much as I can.
Originally Posted by GimliFett
Originally Posted by The Mormegil
Sometimes I forget just how immense the D&D universe is, and I realize I'm still such a newb.
Basically: TWF, smite, inspire courage and use a Searcher of the Song big blast in a single round. Counsels: PHBII has a Combat Dancer feat thing that's really good. And I suggest only dipping in Bard and stack Bard/Pally levels with the feat. Use other progression to get PrCs and bonus feats.
Secod Way: Nifty high level spellcasting is nice. I suggest Lyric Thaumaturge before entering SCh; also, after taking it you can choose between ECL 20 cosmic fire and a multiclassing Archmage/things. Take 2nd SCh level to gain the song of arcane might.
Originally Posted by The Moremegil again
Although I gathered enough to realize I should probably mention what the others in the group are probably doing.
The group is REALLY heavy on beat-'em-characters. I can't remember if there's many casters, but there's apparently one guy willing to class cleric on one half of his build, I think one other person doing Bard/Something supposedly (or at least, somebody said they might) but I could swear we have two rangers in the party and at least one fighter.
For the record, the PCs will be a group of it looks like 6, possibly 7. The majority, regardless of exactly what they're doing, seems to lean towards characters that'll be, um, beat'em ups of some kind. So, yeah. Perhaps "toughness" not so big a deal for my character, even though it'd be handy. :P
The current group is basically half newer players to the group (including at least a couple who've never or almost never played, I think), half our old group. Our old group usually did dungeon crawls and the like, but we're all sick of that, so the DM's just going to come up with an actual story himself - it's his first time DMing, but he's been playing for a few months under our old DM (who is now a PC in the new game), and picked up on certain things that, um, don't really "work" (like he'll actually look at our character sheets, for instance, and he's not using a ready made WotC adventure, like our old DM always ended up doing because he didn't have time between work and school to come up with completely new stuff).
Anyway, the DM for the upcoming adventure has said he'll definitely tailor it to the group anyway, and he's more concerned with everyone having fun than everybody just beating up monsters for treasure. :P Not that there won't be some of that too, but you know.
Alas, I am at work at the moment and I must do pricing on a seperate computer (siiiiiigh), so I'll have to respond to some of the other posts a little later.
-Runa"Go, my undead minions! Save the children! " - (Myboyfriendnow-husband, on how he planned to play a Dread Necromancer.)
Stick-style avatar courtesy of the ever-awesome kpenguin. (If you're curious as to who it is of, she's from Watchmen)
-
2007-08-31, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Me again. I explained every shorting I could find out, I can see you're still not attuned to Forum Slang [meh, I wasn't either! ].
Thought this might help you understanding what others have said.
Okay, Dervish is a Prestige Class [PrC] from Complete Warrior [CW].
It requires Base Attack Bonus (Bab) +7, so you can enter it at Effective Class Level [ECL] 8. It gives you the Dervish Dance class feature that is a rank-based-duration-dance that allows you to move at your speed and do full attack in the same round. You can even sing or dance while doing it. And at level 10 you get the ability to double your attacks 1/day! Check the book for other things.
It's Two Weapon Fighting.
I understand what you need is versatility (even though you have another Bard), that you lack an arcane caster (therefore I would lean toward Sublime Chord), that you haven't got enough space to manoeuvre around the enemy (too much melee, and that means no to dervish, 'cause he doesn't get to make attacks if he doesn't move enough), that you might need to have a second rank healer (bard spell list might be helped with the Arcane Disciple (Healing) feat, from Complete divine (CD), and you can search for Metamagic Song, in Races of Dragons (RoD), to get them Quickened, but you could also use the Searcher of the Song healing song) and that you don't really need to be effective in melee fighting as I thought (but you may want it, anyway).
That means, I will post below the spellcaster/supporter version of what I thought.
Drow (+2) Bard +4/Lyric Thaumaturge 4/Sublime Chord 2/Lyric Thaumaturge +6/Archmage 2//Bard 2/Paladin 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 4/Searcher of the Song 6/Exemplar 1/Bard +3
Hmmm... on second thought, no, don't do this. It is a quite good spellcaster and a singer/dancer bard, but he is a poor fighter and he's not what you asked for, really.
Let's try another way 'round: if you don't mind going with Tome of Battle, you might be Paladin and Crusader. You didn't ask for toughness, that's true, but he's a good fighter and has healing capacities that support those of the cleric. And stack well with bard, and has access to White Raven (that is expecially good since you have many party members).
Now, let's see:
Drow (+2) Bard 7/Jade Phoenix Mage +1/Searcher of the Song 6/Jade Phoenix Mage +4//Crusader 1/Paladin 4/Fighter 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 1/Fighter +1/Jade Phoenix Mage +3/Master of the Nine 5/Crusader +3/Paladin +1
Has decent Bab, good inspire courage (take Music of the Heart, Eberron), Manoeuvres from many disciples (focus on White Raven to get War Master's Charge, deadly charging group!), good feats, can expend (useless)bardic spell slots to gain (useful) +4 on attack roll +Xd10 damages, cumulable with smite, can use his bardic music abilities in tons of ways (expecially if you take Lyric Spell, Ironskin Chant, Chord of distraction, Metamagic Song and Quickened Spell and maaaany Extra Music).
I think the other has more bare power, while this counts more on flexibility and party gaming.
Your choice!Useless arcane powers are better than no arcane powers!
Avatar mercifully granted by Threeshades
-
2007-08-31, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Exactly. Quirky, but it works thematically and such. :D I think that's why it appeals to me so much.
Originally Posted by Moff Chumley
And yes, I'm mostly concerned with making it "fun". ;) Especially since the DM is determined to have this campaign be more than a series of dungeon crawls. That, and having picked classes to start with that are high-Cha, and picked a race that is Cha-increasing, and having picked the deity I did, etc., I basically decided the character isn't going to be one of those angsty-wangsty ones, she's going to be a cheerful, goofy character who likes to joke around, loves to dance and sing and be social and all, and happens to go out and try to battle evil and oppression a lot... and is more than fine with looking slightly silly in battle (as Elan of the OotS puts it - what could be sillier than singing in battle the way D&D Bards do?).
Granted, this is partly me associating "high charisma" with "fun-loving, jokey and social" (which describes all of the "charismatic" people I've ever met in real life), and partly because I wanted to explore a completely different end of the Paladin spectrum from our first game, where I had played a much more serious, more traditional LG Paladin - from a race almost universally not LG-aligned and a family not LG-aligned, and so basically she had an angsty "never fit in with original family and social circle"/"overcoming the heritage"/"doing the right thing"/"a god showed up and said 'hey, you totally should be good and go out and do good things' and she needless to say listened" thing going on. Even after her god showed up again and basically told her she should really kinda loosen up and be a little more open-minded than she was allowing herself to be, she struggled with it. It practically took a mind-control spell (literally!) just to cause her to question the way she was interpreting the Lawful end of her alignment, and even after she was about to to go Paladin of Freedom (that campaign ended before I actually got the chance to do this, though I planned it as part of her development from pretty early), she was quite serious-minded.
...but this one, I think I just wanna have her be much more easygoing and such, even while she's still going out and helping people. Something different, you know? A little more filled with the joie de vive or however the heck you spell it (I took Spanish and Japanese, so I can't consistently spell French for the life of me). 'Course her parents were (I've worked this much out so far at least) devoted Elistrae-worshipers too, and what with that goddess being CG... yeah, you can see how she could end up more like that than angsty!Paladin. I think there's a tendency to see the term "Paladin" and associate with very serious characters, which is probably why I did my first character the way I did. This should be a refreshing change of pace. :)
(Not that I didn't have a character in between, I did, it was a Rogue, but I didn't get much time to develop that one, and she was kind of in between in personality, what little I got to give her anyway. Although, granted, less scrupulous...)
Originally Posted by TalyaOh, and with Eilistraeen focuses on dancing, Bastard-sword Dervish is BEAUTIFUL for this character. The Champions of Valor Eilistraeen substitution levels are for fighter, unfortunately, but they are called "Darksong Knights," and to give you an idea o fthe flavor, include such abilities as:
Dancing Feint - User perform (dance) to feint in combat instead of bluff
Combat Dancing - A Darksong Knight with at least 5 ranks in perform (dance) gains a +2 dodge bonus against attacks of opportunity. If she uses spring attack, she gains a +2 circumstance bonus on the attack roll.
You can see the flavor fits well. I'd try to get the darksong knight substitution levels adapted to your paladin class instead of fighter.Originally Posted by The Mormegil
And yes, that Dervish PrC sounds great for what I'm doing. Assuming we keep going past ECL 8, I'll probably do that. Assuming we keep ending up in battles where I have room. :P
The DM for this adventure's pretty easygoing and willing to house-rule and group-tailor some things, so I might be able to convince him to allow those "fighter" levels for my Pal character, especially if I mention a potential scenario like this:
DM: The orc gets an attack of opportunity on you...
Me: I pirouette gracefully out of the waaaay... maybe...?
*rolls a 1*
Me: Correction - I attempt to pirouette gracefully out of the way, and instead hit the wall, having forgotten it was there. I clonk my head on the wall and yelp - "Ow! Ah! No! That wasn't supposed to happen!" as the orc attacks me...
...or something. (Actually, something about the way that's worded makes me think I remembered something about combat steps wrong... or did I? Gah! Did I mention it's been like about two or three months since we last played? )
Eh, it's worth asking, anyway, right?
Bastard sword, though, eh? I'll keep that in mind.
Originally Posted by Krellen
Originally Posted by The Moremegil
Originally Posted by The Mormegil
-Runa"Go, my undead minions! Save the children! " - (Myboyfriendnow-husband, on how he planned to play a Dread Necromancer.)
Stick-style avatar courtesy of the ever-awesome kpenguin. (If you're curious as to who it is of, she's from Watchmen)
-
2007-08-31, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- Connecticut
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Hi! From the sound of things, I'm guessing you're probably not looking for a whole lot of super-Prestige-Class sourcebook-fu, so I'll keep my ideas based mostly in the base Bard and PoF classes. (I'll be honest, the Bard//Paladin gestalt combo has appealed to me for a while, though I was thinking more in a LG human Paladin of Bahamut direction--similar personality, though: easygoing, friendly, cheerful.)
If you're not focusing quite as much on the combat side of your character as the spellcasting side, I'd put your level adjustment in the Paladin column of your gestalt, and just go Bard for the first two levels. That way your spells advance faster (and because the Bard progression takes forever to advance, this is a very good thing). I'd stick with light armor, and adopt a Dex-based combat style, instead of doing the usual Paladin heavy-armor-bashy thing. A mithral chain shirt is only 1100gp, after all. The Bard's traditional rapier will serve you well here, if you can spare a feat for Weapon Finesse.
Your most important stat, as you probably already know, is Charisma. Jack it as high up as you possibly can with stat increases and magic items (at what level is your game starting? I think I missed that detail). If you're going to be the backup healer, a ridiculously high Charisma will boost your Paladin's 'Lay on Hands' ability (and, incidentally, raise your Bard spell save DCs). I don't know how important skill points are to you; I know that I personally tend to prioritize skills very highly, and so generally focus on Int, but that may not be something you're interested in. (You do have a nice skill list, though; I'd max out Charisma-based skills like Bluff, Diplomacy, and--obviously--Perform, some Knowledges, and a few other key ones like Spellcraft and Tumble. Mostly, whatever works for you and fits the character.)
So, it's sounding like Cha is your primary stat, followed by Dex (which, conveniently, are the stats your racial bonuses boost. Don't let that convince you they're "high enough," though--the sky's the limit!), and then either Wisdom, if you want to get some mileage out of your Paladin spells, or Int if you want to focus more on skill points. Con is probably a slightly higher priority than Strength, both for Hit Points and your Concentration score.
In general, I really like the concept. As I said, I've been toying with the idea of a Bard//Paladin gestalt combo for a while myself, and I'll confess to having a certain affection for drow. I think you'll have a lot of fun with her, regardless of the direction you take her build.Last edited by Jannex; 2007-08-31 at 07:08 PM.
Spoiler
Zöe Althira in When On Olympus
Ratri Aeval in Double Major
Mercedes Swift, Scion of Hermes, in ???
Haiiro Mariko in The Scarlet Shadow
Kris "Krash" Ashton in Colony
Karen Mallory in Changing Breeds
Spoiler
-
2007-09-02, 12:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Hooboy yes. Especially since, I mean, it won't be until Tuesday that we apparently REALLY discuss it and some people are kinda indecisive on it, but so far it seems like about five people (out of seven) are doing characters that'll be good or decent at melee. Robert's apparently doing Cleric//some face-bashy thing that in combination will be kinda vicious (our DM, Ralph, pointed out that since clerics get both cure and inflict type spells... combine that with being able to stab or bludgeon something... yeah. Also, something about... what was it, duskblades?). So, we'll have a Cleric, which is good! Also, at least one guy's apparently doing Rogue in combination with something, though I may have misinterpreted something there.
That, and while PrCs always seem to sound fun, I rarely get around to doing them. Though I may do Sword Dancer, just because... I mean have you seen the prerequisites for that? You have to dance naked in the moonlight. Every night. For a month straight. Bwaha! Awesomeness, especially for the potential hilarious awkward moments... see, most of us seem to be playing characters the same gender. I think there's only two women in the group, so...
But yeah, I'm not as interested in PrCs, though I'm willing to take them into consideration.
If you're not focusing quite as much on the combat side of your character as the spellcasting side, I'd put your level adjustment in the Paladin column of your gestalt, and just go Bard for the first two levels.
I think under the circumstances, it's not going to be much like our original group's first game, where I was pretty much the tank character, out of only two or three (in a total of five PCs) that tended to do combat damage. Plenty of people in the party will apparently be fully capable of melee, so I may just do exactly what you suggest here.
That way your spells advance faster (and because the Bard progression takes forever to advance, this is a very good thing). I'd stick with light armor, and adopt a Dex-based combat style, instead of doing the usual Paladin heavy-armor-bashy thing. A mithral chain shirt is only 1100gp, after all. The Bard's traditional rapier will serve you well here, if you can spare a feat for Weapon Finesse.
Your most important stat, as you probably already know, is Charisma. Jack it as high up as you possibly can with stat increases and magic items (at what level is your game starting? I think I missed that detail).
We're starting at first level. Apparently, the other characters won't know all each other, but they'll have all met me (for various reasons, though my character will probably have traveled a lot anyway, and what with being outgoing and all, it seems plausible enough), and will be on the way to meet me when the first adventure starts. I've been told there's a very good chance I'll be given a... for lack of a better term, cannon fodder character to start with, a loveable, endearing little miss who will stick with the other characters on their adventure, only to get brutally murdered by the soon-recurring villain. Or not. Ralph seems to be wavering on this part, partly because it's a bit of work, really. :P
But, two things are for sure: we're starting at first level to begin with, and Ralph is hugely reluctant to go into the Epic level campaigns (with a 7-member party, you can kinda see why I think). So, think low-level.
If you're going to be the backup healer, a ridiculously high Charisma will boost your Paladin's 'Lay on Hands' ability (and, incidentally, raise your Bard spell save DCs). I don't know how important skill points are to you; I know that I personally tend to prioritize skills very highly, and so generally focus on Int, but that may not be something you're interested in. (You do have a nice skill list, though; I'd max out Charisma-based skills like Bluff, Diplomacy, and--obviously--Perform, some Knowledges, and a few other key ones like Spellcraft and Tumble. Mostly, whatever works for you and fits the character.)
I like skill points, for some reason. I guess because it's one of those things that you really have a choice in adjusting, and it helps focus what you're doing with the character and all. I hadn't thought about where my skill points other than Perform were going (partly because we aren't officially rolling characters until Tuesday or Wednesday), but Diplomacy seems an obvious one to me certainly, especially given my character's intended personality (and the size of the party!) means she may well have to call on it often. I can see use for most or all of the others you list, too.
So, it's sounding like Cha is your primary stat, followed by Dex (which, conveniently, are the stats your racial bonuses boost. Don't let that convince you they're "high enough," though--the sky's the limit!),
and then either Wisdom, if you want to get some mileage out of your Paladin spells, or Int if you want to focus more on skill points. Con is probably a slightly higher priority than Strength, both for Hit Points and your Concentration score.
I think the Bardic end comes first (going by the logical thematic and backstory basics; she would probably have learned music and dance from a very young age, and not decided to actively fight against oppression and such until a little later anyway, methinks), especially with existing casters and melee pros and such in the party, so I'll probably make Int my third, followed by Wis and Con.
In general, I really like the concept. As I said, I've been toying with the idea of a Bard//Paladin gestalt combo for a while myself, and I'll confess to having a certain affection for drow. I think you'll have a lot of fun with her, regardless of the direction you take her build."Go, my undead minions! Save the children! " - (Myboyfriendnow-husband, on how he planned to play a Dread Necromancer.)
Stick-style avatar courtesy of the ever-awesome kpenguin. (If you're curious as to who it is of, she's from Watchmen)
-
2007-09-02, 02:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Icy Evil Canadia
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Dervish is very worth considering as a PrC for "Fluff" reasons for this character.
Let me quote a bit of the fluff description of the dervish "dance of death" ability they have:
Originally Posted by Complete WarriorLast edited by Talya; 2007-09-02 at 02:52 AM.
-
2007-09-02, 03:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Rome, Italy
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
Since nobody mentioned it, anyone interested in playing a paladin should consider the feat Battle Blessing (Complete Champion) which allows you to actually use your paladin spells lowering their casting time from a standard action to a swift action. It has practically no fluff, so no reason not to take it if you have any spells that you might like to use. I second the divine feat that gives you Cha to damage; it's not like you have any other uses for turning undead anyway.
As for the ranks in diplomacy, the diplomacy rules, as written, are a sure way to disrupt a campaign since they turn any battle into a recruiting of personal followers for the bard. This means that usually, at some point, it will be house ruled or disregarded; talk with your DM and only get ranks in diplomacy if it is functional for whatever house rule will be applied. The giant has a nice rewrite for it in the gaming section.
Have fun playing!Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books.
E. G. Gygax
Lawful member of the Hinjo fanclub
Treegrappler of the Durkon fanclub
-
2007-09-02, 03:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- Connecticut
- Gender
Re: Drow Bard/Paladin...
It depends largely on how your particular DM wants gestalt and level-adjustment to interact; the way I've seen it handled is that level adjustment only takes up one of your gestalt columns; otherwise races with it get kind of screwed over. So, assuming that's how your DM approaches it, I'd recommend Bard for your free gestalt column until your level adjustment is done, and then putting your Paladin levels in the newly-freed column, yeah.
That is so weird. I was just thinking of going with studded leather armor! Bards do better in lighter armor, after all, and I won't need to be a tank on the front lines anyway.
You didn't miss it, because I forgot to list it. Here's the skinny on the plan thus far (this may change, aside from what level we're starting at anyway, but so far this has been pretty consistent):
We're starting at first level. Apparently, the other characters won't know all each other, but they'll have all met me (for various reasons, though my character will probably have traveled a lot anyway, and what with being outgoing and all, it seems plausible enough), and will be on the way to meet me when the first adventure starts. I've been told there's a very good chance I'll be given a... for lack of a better term, cannon fodder character to start with, a loveable, endearing little miss who will stick with the other characters on their adventure, only to get brutally murdered by the soon-recurring villain. Or not. Ralph seems to be wavering on this part, partly because it's a bit of work, really. :P
But, two things are for sure: we're starting at first level to begin with, and Ralph is hugely reluctant to go into the Epic level campaigns (with a 7-member party, you can kinda see why I think). So, think low-level.
It sounds like I'll end up at least partly being a backup healer, with only one confirmed Cleric in the party. Not that I'm underestimating the use of course; I still remember how often I had to use Lay On Hands in our first game, especially during the brief time we didn't have a Cleric, or anytime she got knocked out!
I like skill points, for some reason. I guess because it's one of those things that you really have a choice in adjusting, and it helps focus what you're doing with the character and all. I hadn't thought about where my skill points other than Perform were going (partly because we aren't officially rolling characters until Tuesday or Wednesday), but Diplomacy seems an obvious one to me certainly, especially given my character's intended personality (and the size of the party!) means she may well have to call on it often. I can see use for most or all of the others you list, too.
I think the Bardic end comes first (going by the logical thematic and backstory basics; she would probably have learned music and dance from a very young age, and not decided to actively fight against oppression and such until a little later anyway, methinks), especially with existing casters and melee pros and such in the party, so I'll probably make Int my third, followed by Wis and Con.Spoiler
Zöe Althira in When On Olympus
Ratri Aeval in Double Major
Mercedes Swift, Scion of Hermes, in ???
Haiiro Mariko in The Scarlet Shadow
Kris "Krash" Ashton in Colony
Karen Mallory in Changing Breeds
Spoiler