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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Corruption Eater


    Corruption eaters are medium-sized Aberrations with decent ability scores. They're also absolutely awful.

    The first issue arises when corruption eaters attack. You see, their primary natural attack, a bite, damages them if they use it against something that doesn't have a Corruption score. What's that, you ask? Oh, just a very specific part of a very infrequently-used subsystem from a book almost nobody ever uses.

    Even against something that is corrupted, these beasties aren't great. Damage-wise they'll be completely underwhelming, Tainted Exhalation (breath weapon that causes points of Depravity) is heavily dependent on getting multiple hits in against something that's Corrupted, and Purity Vulnerability negates the monster's main defense against 90% of foes.

    Worst part? All of this is at the cost of 15 RHD. That's not worth the small amount of extra strength (orc is only three points behind by now), nor is it worth the abysmal natural attacks (most of which you must give up to use weapons anyway).

    Even in a campaign where every random mook has a corruption score, this thing's only use is trying to get as many bites in as possible so it can unleash a semi-nova in the form of a weak AoE. It will barely contribute to overall damage, it will severely fall behind in versatility, and it will not even be able to tank better than a random dwarf knight (in fact, the knight can actually convince foes it's worth attacking, so that one may be better off).

    There isn't a single PC class I wouldn't want to play over this one: -0 LA for sure.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Corruption Eater verdict: LA -0 (ugh)

    (ugh) is a new descriptor which indicates a significant mechanical defect that might have campaign-wide impact if the DM were to attempt a correction

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    But... but... those abberation HD! Look at those shiny abberation HD!


    The best use of corruption eaters is sticking them in a bag of holding for your daily corruption cleanup. Make sure to keep them half-dead, or they'll do things to your depravity. LA -0.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    -0. Like, just no. I do not even want to look at that stat block again.
    Last edited by ViperMagnum357; 2018-03-06 at 02:41 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    That thing's not even worth using as a monster.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    That thing's not even worth using as a monster.
    It's a quest MacGuffin -- "find the X, get cured of your Y".

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    It's a quest MacGuffin -- "find the X, get cured of your Y".
    If I were a corrupted individual seeking restoration, I'd look for a cleric or a magic spring or some sort of artifact of purity before I considered hunting down an aberrant monster and letting it attack me for a while. It's just not very intuitive.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    If I were a corrupted individual seeking restoration, I'd look for a cleric or a magic spring or some sort of artifact of purity before I considered hunting down an aberrant monster and letting it attack me for a while. It's just not very intuitive.
    But you're a HERO in a HORROR campaign, so nice things like "Clerics" and "artifacts of purity" don't exist.

    All you have is a pile of rotting skulls, an unkempt vampire castle, a forest full of toadstools, and a meadow with man-eating carnivorous sheep.

    There's a magic spring, but it's eeeeeeeeeeevil hooooooooooooorror magic.

    Would you like to make out with the tentacle-tongue thing?

    YES
    NO
    ITEM
    CRY <--

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    This is one of those situations where rolling as if it were a combat action with a chance of failure is not the best way to represent the action.
    The DM can just say: "Yep that character got stabbed in the heart, no need to roll. That character is dead."
    Only roll when there's a chance that the action fails.
    D&D has never been a physics engine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    I recall reading in some D&D book the phrase "a dagger to the eye is a dagger to the eye" in a section discussing hit points and damage. A dagger to the heart may mechanically be a coup de grace, but it's one of those times where the game rules expect the DM to step in.
    Point missed. Without getting into a discussion of the validity of discussing the vermisilitude of D&D's ruleset, it's obvious that Inevitability was discussing exactly that. Replying to him by pointing out that D&D isn't realistic is roughly akin to replying to a debunking of flat-earth models by pointing out that said models don't accurately represent the Earth.


    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    In my games, I always houseruled coup-de-graces as doing maximum damage and critting, anyway. That 1d4 would become 12, a DC 22 Fortitude save (though again, I usually bump the DC to 15 + damage dealt, so 27). Frankly, it's not unreasonable that someone tough enought to make a DC 20+ save could theoretically survive such an injury. Surviving a beheading, however...
    A rules problem which can be solved with house rules is, by definition, still a problem with the rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    But you're a HERO in a HORROR campaign, so nice things like "Clerics" and "artifacts of purity" don't exist.
    All you have is a pile of rotting skulls, an unkempt vampire castle, a forest full of toadstools, and a meadow with man-eating carnivorous sheep.
    There's a magic spring, but it's eeeeeeeeeeevil hooooooooooooorror magic.
    Would you like to make out with the tentacle-tongue thing?
    YES
    NO
    ITEM
    CRY <--
    I get the idea there, but the execution...I haven't read Heroes of Horror lately, but "nasty evil monster that can hurt you in exchange for fixing your corruption" is the kind of thing for which you need to set up your world and its corruption very carefully to avoid coming off as a clumsy attempt at grimdark.
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    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Would you like to make out with the tentacle-tongue thing?

    YES
    NO
    ITEM
    CRY <--
    Nifft, I love you so much right now.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    If I were a corrupted individual seeking restoration, I'd look for a cleric or a magic spring or some sort of artifact of purity before I considered hunting down an aberrant monster and letting it attack me for a while. It's just not very intuitive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    But you're a HERO in a HORROR campaign, so nice things like "Clerics" and "artifacts of purity" don't exist.

    All you have is a pile of rotting skulls, an unkempt vampire castle, a forest full of toadstools, and a meadow with man-eating carnivorous sheep.

    There's a magic spring, but it's eeeeeeeeeeevil hooooooooooooorror magic.

    Would you like to make out with the tentacle-tongue thing?

    YES
    NO
    ITEM
    CRY <--
    Frankly, this makes me want to make a DnD-based text adventure.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Considering that D&D is a major inspiration for most fantasy games (and a fair bit of non-game fantasy), I think it's likely that you have played a text adventure based in some part on D&D.
    But seriously, you'd have to differentiate it from other text adventures somehow, and text adventures don't have the best interface for letting the player grasp the (relatively) complex mechanics that differentiate RPGs from typical text parsers.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Frankly, this makes me want to make a DnD-based text adventure.
    Yeah, and we could give it a cool name, too. How about something short and sweet with a strong 'k' sound? Maybe a 'z', too; 'z's are cool. Oh, I got it! We could name it 'Zork'!
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Yeah, and we could give it a cool name, too. How about something short and sweet with a strong 'k' sound? Maybe a 'z', too; 'z's are cool. Oh, I got it! We could name it 'Zork'!
    I see what you did there.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Yeah, and we could give it a cool name, too. How about something short and sweet with a strong 'k' sound? Maybe a 'z', too; 'z's are cool. Oh, I got it! We could name it 'Zork'!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Miller View Post
    I see what you did there.
    I see what you did there with my imagination because there are no graphics.
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    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Yeah, and we could give it a cool name, too. How about something short and sweet with a strong 'k' sound? Maybe a 'z', too; 'z's are cool. Oh, I got it! We could name it 'Zork'!
    Yeah, but this one would be one I made.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    ...I don't get it.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    ...I don't get it.
    I think zork is an old school text based video game.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Lans View Post
    I think zork is an old school text based video game.
    You would be correct! Have a wiki link.

    I wasted hours on Zork every day back then (hey, I am 60, what can I say)

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    If I were a corrupted individual seeking restoration, I'd look for a cleric or a magic spring or some sort of artifact of purity before I considered hunting down an aberrant monster and letting it attack me for a while. It's just not very intuitive.
    As Nifft notes, such things are largely inaccessible in a horror campaign.
    These things? Should be relatively common. Mind control one or two, and be careful when you use them. Treat them a bit like doctors would treat leeches in real life.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Elemental, Taint


    Taint elementals are elementals, but EVIL!!!! They all have the Evil subtype (but lack the outsider type to make full use of it), have a touch that inflicts Corruption points, are immune to taint, and can use Dimension Door 3/day as a move action. Of note is that their Dimension Door doesn't prohibit taking actions after the teleportation. Also of note is the fact that it doesn't seem to alter the wording that allows for taking along creatures.

    Please be aware that taint elementals, while not earth or water creatures, do have the save progression of these elementals.

    With basic abilities established, on to the individual monsters!

    Small Taint Elemental

    2 elemental RHD, surprisingly good ability scores (+4 to strength, constitution, wisdom and charisma), a moderately strong slam attack, good natural armor, and a 1/day bonus to a variety of rolls (thanks to Surge of Malevolence), as well as very good mobility thanks to Dimension Door. This is definitely worth +0, and perhaps even +1, though I'll use the former score for now.

    Medium Taint Elemental

    4 elemental RHD aren't the greatest, but those stats aren't awful and the party casters still don't have Dimension Door... I'll be nice and assign +0 here as well.

    Large Taint Elemental

    Yeah, no. 20 strength and Large size is something I can get by being an ogre for half the HD, and at least the ogre would be able to use weapons. -0 LA.

    Huge+ Taint Elemental

    Nothing to see here, move along. -0 LA.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Elemental, Taint


    Taint elementals are elementals, but EVIL!!!! They all have the Evil subtype (but lack the outsider type to make full use of it), have a touch that inflicts Corruption points, are immune to taint, and can use Dimension Door 3/day as a move action. Of note is that their Dimension Door doesn't prohibit taking actions after the teleportation. Also of note is the fact that it doesn't seem to alter the wording that allows for taking along creatures.

    Please be aware that taint elementals, while not earth or water creatures, do have the save progression of these elementals.

    With basic abilities established, on to the individual monsters!

    Small Taint Elemental

    2 elemental RHD, surprisingly good ability scores (+4 to strength, constitution, wisdom and charisma), a moderately strong slam attack, good natural armor, and a 1/day bonus to a variety of rolls (thanks to Surge of Malevolence), as well as very good mobility thanks to Dimension Door. This is definitely worth +0, and perhaps even +1, though I'll use the former score for now.

    Medium Taint Elemental

    4 elemental RHD aren't the greatest, but those stats aren't awful and the party casters still don't have Dimension Door... I'll be nice and assign +0 here as well.

    Large Taint Elemental

    Yeah, no. 20 strength and Large size is something I can get by being an ogre for half the HD, and at least the ogre would be able to use weapons. -0 LA.

    Huge+ Taint Elemental

    Nothing to see here, move along. -0 LA.
    +1, +0, -0 on up. Elemental provides a lot of good immunities; for the Small, 30ft base speed, +16 net abilities and +6 natural AC is probably worth it and then some on 2 RHD, especially on a Small PC. Still, mediocre RHD drop that to a weak +0 by ECL 4, saved by reach; and beyond that a total crapfest.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Yeah, the small ones are worth +1, IMO
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    +0, +0 (but a weak one), -0, -0. Thats my assessment.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    If the small didn't have that D-Door, it would be a weak +0, but teleporting is enough to bump it up to +1 in my eyes. It's not the best +1 out there, but it's too good for +0.

    Otherwise, I agree with your assessment, +0 for medium, and -0 for the rest.

    Edit: A party with a taint elemental and a corruption eater would make the latter not entirely horrible.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    3/day dimension door as a move action that lets you act afterwards and carry people along doesn't get old very fast. The stats on that Small elemental aren't bad either. However, its class skills are absolutely crap (only two of them), you lose a point of base attack, you have one good save and average HD, you don't get to use armour (probably) or weapons (arguably), which means the +6 NA and good slam go towards shoring up those weaknesses, and you have no further class features. I think a barbarian/fighter can do better, let alone a barbarian/warblade. LA +0 on the Small elemental should do; hence I agree with all estimates.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperMagnum357 View Post
    +1, +0, -0 on up. Elemental provides a lot of good immunities; for the Small, 30ft base speed, +16 net abilities and +6 natural AC is probably worth it and then some on 2 RHD, especially on a Small PC. Still, mediocre RHD drop that to a weak +0 by ECL 4, saved by reach; and beyond that a total crapfest.
    This.

    Small: LA +1
    Medium: LA +0
    Other: LA -0 and yuck

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Edit: A party with a taint elemental and a corruption eater would make the latter not entirely horrible.
    One is a toothy-tongued abomination that eats physical decay!
    The other is the sentient embodiment of evil!
    Can they learn to get along and survive in this crazy world?

    THAT DAMN CRAB: "No."

    Once again I find it weird that there is a theoretical 'golden mean' of HD between the 2HD/+1 LA and the 4HD/+0 LA. Assuming a DM felt like putting up with the headache of deciding the stats of a 3HD elemental, what stats would it have so that it can get the little bonus of one more real level? I know elemental HD aren't good, but they are (without buyoff) better than 1 dead level's adjustment. A 3HD/+0 LA build would make me happy if I could get it.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post

    Large Taint Elemental

    Yeah, no. 20 strength and Large size is something I can get by being an ogre for half the HD, and at least the ogre would be able to use weapons. -0 LA.
    Yes, but the elemental also has +30 to its other stats, a higher natural armor, its immunities, and damage reduction over the ogre. I think the large TE is good enough to be a LA+0.

    Also it can grab some number of bonus feats due to it having taint.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    How Taint interacts with Taint Elementals has a few things that are in the 'ask your DM' territory.

    1.
    A taint elemental has both corruption and depravity scores equal to its HD. It takes no ill effects from taint.
    This overrides any other corruption and depravity scores they may have, it's a continuous effect so their taint can never change levels. Note that it doesn't say starting taint levels or minimum taint levels: their taint is always equal to their HD; no exceptions.

    2. It's ambiguous whether you get two bonus feats for each taint score you have at moderate/severe. It could be read as gaining only one bonus feat if either depravity or corruption reaches the moderate/severe level.

    3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Taint Bonus Feats
    When a character reaches moderate taint, and again when he reaches severe taint, he gains a bonus feat.
    A blood elemental cannot ever reach a taint level because their taint level is always set, so arguably, they cannot gain bonus feats from taint at all.

    So whether or not they get bonus feats at all is going to be dependent on individual GM interpretation.

    My votes are:

    Small - +1* DDoor, decent stats that support a melee build while not setting you back so far that gishes are out of the picture. The aforementioned issues with how they handle Taint and the fact that in a campaign heavily featuring Taint, DMs may feel that a rather easy to access immunity to taint may be problematic make me feel that an * is appropriate.

    Medium - +0 Still ok stats for a melee build, though gishes become very unlikely. Not great, but I think they are fine as ECL 5 characters and scale ok.

    Large - -0 It's close, I think that they are almost good enough for +0 for the reasons outlined above; however, 8 elemental HD is really, really bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu View Post
    We live in the land of the internets, where arguing is never pointless.

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