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  1. - Top - End - #1021
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Just barely good enough for +0. Their one interesting ability is more flavorful than useful since they can't willingly cancel it - it's far more likely to backfire on a PC than help them.

  2. - Top - End - #1022
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    I think the point of the tree shape ability is for DMs to be d*cks. These goblins are for when a party sets up camp in the forest and intelligently makes reasonable defenses, including one or more guards, but you still want to surprise them with an ambush.

    "You got a 26 on your spot check? There are no enemies near the campsite. Oh wait whoops. The bush you're standing next to turns into a goblin and stabs you. Roll initiative."
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  3. - Top - End - #1023
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Sanity View Post
    Just barely good enough for +0. Their one interesting ability is more flavorful than useful since they can't willingly cancel it - it's far more likely to backfire on a PC than help them.
    I'd like to point out that you can in fact reliably de-activate it by having an ally deal one point of damage to the shrub. Just let the party wizard punch you, or zap you with a cantrip, and you should be good to go.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  4. - Top - End - #1024
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    I'd like to point out that you can in fact reliably de-activate it by having an ally deal one point of damage to the shrub. Just let the party wizard punch you, or zap you with a cantrip, and you should be good to go.
    I can't see any situation in which being a shrub would be beneficial and not completely undermined by also having a wizard stand next to you.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    I wonder, would a goblin that spends each day as a tree need to eat, or would he be able to photosynthesize all the sustenance he/she needs?
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

  6. - Top - End - #1026
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I can't see any situation in which being a shrub would be beneficial and not completely undermined by also having a wizard stand next to you.
    You could use it for reconnaisance/spying/evesdropping by planting yourself in a location of interest. Then, when you've done your job, an ally can wander by to de-tree you.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

  7. - Top - End - #1027
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    You could use it for reconnaisance/spying/evesdropping by planting yourself in a location of interest. Then, when you've done your job, an ally can wander by to de-tree you.
    That won't work inside a city as it'll be too conspicuous for a random bush to suddenly be somewhere it's never been before, and spying on someone who's future location you can reasonably predict only works when dealing with individuals who live by schedules, i.e. city dwellers. Maybe if you want to spy on, like, a farmer or something that'll work, but I can't imagine the farmer will have anything useful to say.
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  8. - Top - End - #1028
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    OrcBarbarianGirl

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    That won't work inside a city as it'll be too conspicuous for a random bush to suddenly be somewhere it's never been before, and spying on someone who's future location you can reasonably predict only works when dealing with individuals who live by schedules, i.e. city dwellers. Maybe if you want to spy on, like, a farmer or something that'll work, but I can't imagine the farmer will have anything useful to say.
    Is the kind of shrub specified? A ******** goblin could fit right into a poorly maintained garden, lawn, or even gutter. They could also disguise as a decorative tree; from a classy dracena to a festive conifer.
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    This thread, Questions that can't be answered... Answered by RAW by No brains, is Epic.
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    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
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  9. - Top - End - #1029
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    It's no water orc, but it seems mostly in line with PHB races. +0 LA seems fine.
    Pretty much. Not as good as water orc, human, dwarf, strongheart halfling, or whisper gnome. But honestly better than many PHB races for a Cha based caster or ranger. Rogue gets hurt by -2 int but possible.

    Small size but 30' move, +2 dex, -2 int, +1 NA, climb speed, darkvision, very stealthy in forests. I can see people taking this at +0 but I don't think its overpowered. No way is that +1, reasonably in line with +0 PHB race with some fun toys.

  10. - Top - End - #1030
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    Is the kind of shrub specified? A ******** goblin could fit right into a poorly maintained garden, lawn, or even gutter. They could also disguise as a decorative tree; from a classy dracena to a festive conifer.
    How many people go spouting secrets while standing on their lawn?
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  11. - Top - End - #1031
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    How many people go spouting secrets while standing on their lawn?
    Oh, random misplaced shrub, you're the only one who understands me...
    Known among friends as "Ogres"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...so as we can see, no internal consistency from WotC (unsurprising).

  12. - Top - End - #1032
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I think the point of the tree shape ability is for DMs to be d*cks. These goblins are for when a party sets up camp in the forest and intelligently makes reasonable defenses, including one or more guards, but you still want to surprise them with an ambush.

    "You got a 26 on your spot check? There are no enemies near the campsite. Oh wait whoops. The bush you're standing next to turns into a goblin and stabs you. Roll initiative."
    Probably the most frustrating part is that they don't work that way (at least, if your DM is being reasonable). They have to stay in plant form for 12 hours. Although, a travelling forest of goblins would be interesting.

    Edit: Would they be +1 LA if they could control their Tree Shape?
    Last edited by Luccan; 2018-07-29 at 05:56 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #1033
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    Probably the most frustrating part is that they don't work that way (at least, if your DM is being reasonable). They have to stay in plant form for 12 hours. Although, a travelling forest of goblins would be interesting.

    Edit: Would they be +1 LA if they could control their Tree Shape?
    Considering it's only 1/day, I doubt it. If it were at-will, then yeah, I could see making it a weak +1.


    ... And now I have this mental image of an entire party hiding behind the treeformed goblin cartoon-style to avoid a dimwitted guard patrol.

  14. - Top - End - #1034
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    Probably the most frustrating part is that they don't work that way (at least, if your DM is being reasonable). They have to stay in plant form for 12 hours. Although, a travelling forest of goblins would be interesting.

    Edit: Would they be +1 LA if they could control their Tree Shape?
    Sure they work that way. They just happened to transform exactly 12 hours ago.
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  15. - Top - End - #1035
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    Probably the most frustrating part is that they don't work that way (at least, if your DM is being reasonable). They have to stay in plant form for 12 hours. Although, a travelling forest of goblins would be interesting.

    Edit: Would they be +1 LA if they could control their Tree Shape?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Sure they work that way. They just happened to transform exactly 12 hours ago.
    Don't even need to utilize DM fiat like that.

    After all, it's not like the party's going to start setting up camp after sunset. No, they're going set up camp some hours before, and when the sun sets, bam, the forestkith automatically drop Tree Shape in the middle of the party eating dinner/on downtime.
    No DM is ever truly out of tricks to mess with his/her players.
    No player is ever truly out of ways to surprise their DM.
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  16. - Top - End - #1036
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    I just want to see this goblin's reaction when they realize it's an arctic survival campaign...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    Read ExLibrisMortis' post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
    My incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
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  17. - Top - End - #1037
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Even if Discordant frenzy didn't require a single budy it would still suck, it is alright until you hit level 3 if you pump cha but after that it is garbage and most of the time it is garbage as is. So these guys have a draw back ex, a garbage ex, and a third ex that is useless enough to also be boardline garbage since it is once a day and can't remove for 12 hours by yourself. The only real plus they have over normal goblins is that their ability scores are net 0 and a climb speed. So +0 LA but given their bad special abilities and that their negative stat is int I wouldn't even call them a high +0 they are middling at best.


    on a side note there is some questionably anatomical shadowing happening between their legs...

  18. - Top - End - #1038
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Golem, Alchemical


    I could blame the 22 construct RHD for ruining this thing, but then I'd be neglecting the awful stats (23 strength, 12 dex, otherwise bad or nonexistent), ally-harming abilities (turns out rupturing to spread toxic acid from every other attack isn't great for party members), inability to receive buffs, and tendency to go insane forever after a few rounds of combat.

    -0* LA, given that this is literally unplayable as long as Berserk remains.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  19. - Top - End - #1039
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Golems: Everyone's favorite unplayable heaps of awful RHD since MM1.

    -0.
    Known among friends as "Ogres"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...so as we can see, no internal consistency from WotC (unsurprising).

  20. - Top - End - #1040
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Golems: LA -0 and then some.




    Fine, analysis: 22 Construct RHD and ohgodwhy

    This is just bad on so many levels that will be elaborated upon by future posts, I just want to point out how it costs 500 GP to restore HP to this thing without the proper magic. Retch.

    More seriously, about the only remotely useful attribute is the SR-Yes magic immunity. If you want that, go look for a more playable Golem.

  21. - Top - End - #1041
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Why do WotC hate monstrous characters so much and goblinoids in particular? I mean seriously, if they'd just dropped the section about monster PCs then people would be able to make it work somehow via houserule without actually ignoring the actual rules... oh wait, maybe because that way they can assign insultingly crippling ECLs to monsters they don't like and justify it by pointing to that section? *facepalms*

    You know, I'm starting to understand why Redcloak's so pissy towards humans, nowadays...
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  22. - Top - End - #1042
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    It's possible to berserk-proof a golem for only 3000 gp (Dragon #327, page 73). This doesn't affect CR and definitely won't affect LA, because it's still a fat -0, but it can take care of the *.

    Along the same lines, it's possible to spend 8000 gp to add an Intelligence score equal to half the creator's caster level (that'd be 7, for the alchemical golem), which is significant improvement, unlocking feats and a single skill point per level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    Read ExLibrisMortis' post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
    My incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
    My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).

  23. - Top - End - #1043
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Why do WotC hate monstrous characters so much and goblinoids in particular? I mean seriously, if they'd just dropped the section about monster PCs then people would be able to make it work somehow via houserule without actually ignoring the actual rules... oh wait, maybe because that way they can assign insultingly crippling ECLs to monsters they don't like and justify it by pointing to that section? *facepalms*

    You know, I'm starting to understand why Redcloak's so pissy towards humans, nowadays...
    Oh, I think orcs have it worse. Net negative stat mods, no traits at all beyond darkvision, and a further penalty on top with light sensitivity as if it was somehow already too good. Orcs were handed the shortest of all sticks.
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  24. - Top - End - #1044
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Oh, I think orcs have it worse. Net negative stat mods, no traits at all beyond darkvision, and a further penalty on top with light sensitivity as if it was somehow already too good. Orcs were handed the shortest of all sticks.
    Well, at least +4 strength and no LA is good for something. Now, hobgoblins on the other hand...
    Known among friends as "Ogres"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...so as we can see, no internal consistency from WotC (unsurprising).

  25. - Top - End - #1045
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Concur, -0*.

    For all intents and purposes, it's basically unplayable.
    No DM is ever truly out of tricks to mess with his/her players.
    No player is ever truly out of ways to surprise their DM.
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  26. - Top - End - #1046
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
    Well, at least +4 strength and no LA is good for something. Now, hobgoblins on the other hand...
    Touché. I forgot that they were actually given +1 LA for whatever insane reason.
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  27. - Top - End - #1047
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    ya nothing above -0* la for that poor poor golem, shudder this is going to be a long while of -0...

  28. - Top - End - #1048
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    -0* is appropriate for the golem.

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  29. - Top - End - #1049
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Oh, I think orcs have it worse. Net negative stat mods, no traits at all beyond darkvision, and a further penalty on top with light sensitivity as if it was somehow already too good. Orcs were handed the shortest of all sticks.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
    Well, at least +4 strength and no LA is good for something. Now, hobgoblins on the other hand...
    Orcs. Truly the Half-Orcs of Monster PCs.

    As to the Golem: It's terrible. 22 Construct RHD are bad. The lack of any abilities and abysmal stat bonuses make me confident any properly built Warrior could make short work of it. -0
    Last edited by Luccan; 2018-07-31 at 02:03 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #1050
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Golems have bit of the undead problem: their hitdice don't get bonus HP so they need very many of them. This thing could have easily had 11 RHD with a +5 constitution modifier or equivalent. To my knowledge there are no constructs that get +HP per hit die.
    Known among friends as "Ogres"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...so as we can see, no internal consistency from WotC (unsurprising).

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