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  1. - Top - End - #1141
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Web Golem


    11 RHD? Ouch.

    20 strength and Large size are the exact same melee chassis provided by an ogre, except the ogre doesn't miss out on three points of BAB and can get PrC capstones. The special abilities don't exactly save this thing either: the poison is weak (and strangely unlimited despite being nonmagical in nature), 3/day Web is useful but not unique, and Spider Climb at-will ceased being useful half a dozen levels ago.

    Oh and before I forget: this thing is vulnerable to fire, because of course it is. Given that fire is an incredibly common damage type even when discounting spells, that's not a good thing.

    The golem's DR, fast healing, and adhesive ability would all be rather useful... if there was any reason for monsters to attack this thing at all. That said, I must admit that no-action disarms and grapples can be quite powerful, so against less intelligent foes this might actually be a rather useful ability.

    Even so, -0 LA.

    This concludes our golem tour, get ready for the Grimweird in a few days.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  2. - Top - End - #1142
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    And here I was thinking that this book would be more interesting than MM II.

  3. - Top - End - #1143
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Hey the MM II will have about a dozen monsters that will warrant discussion. Mainly because WotC did NOT know what balance even looked like at that point.

  4. - Top - End - #1144
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Why are these good as monsters - are they cheap to make or something?
    Because they're CR 11 and have good synergy with other monsters (specifically a bunch of undead).

    What do you think a DM needs to spend to acquire monsters? How would anything be "cheap to make" or not for a DM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    [CENTER]Web Golem

    11 RHD? Ouch.

    20 strength and Large size are the exact same melee chassis provided by an ogre, except the ogre doesn't miss out on three points of BAB and can get PrC capstones. The special abilities don't exactly save this thing either: the poison is weak (and strangely unlimited despite being nonmagical in nature), 3/day Web is useful but not unique, and Spider Climb at-will ceased being useful half a dozen levels ago.

    Oh and before I forget: this thing is vulnerable to fire, because of course it is. Given that fire is an incredibly common damage type even when discounting spells, that's not a good thing.

    The golem's DR, fast healing, and adhesive ability would all be rather useful... if there was any reason for monsters to attack this thing at all. That said, I must admit that no-action disarms and grapples can be quite powerful, so against less intelligent foes this might actually be a rather useful ability.

    Even so, -0 LA.
    Fast healing is unusual for a golem, so I want to find an excuse to like this thing, but I just can't. LA -0, back to the demonweb armpit with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    This concludes our golem tour, get ready for the Grimweird in a few days.
    "Grimweirds are some of the most charismatic beings in existence."

  5. - Top - End - #1145
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    And here I was thinking that this book would be more interesting than MM II.
    MM 2 would be great honestly, so would Fiend Folio
    Known among friends as "Ogres"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...so as we can see, no internal consistency from WotC (unsurprising).

  6. - Top - End - #1146
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
    MM 2 would be great honestly, so would Fiend Folio
    Will be great.

    They're deferred, not disqualified.

  7. - Top - End - #1147
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Will be great.

    They're deferred, not disqualified.
    I didn't mean to imply we'll never see them done here.
    Known among friends as "Ogres"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...so as we can see, no internal consistency from WotC (unsurprising).

  8. - Top - End - #1148
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    I'm guessing pretty much all golems and giants (under the heading not the type) are going to be -0. hd bloat kills unless it comes with free spellcasting of a fair amount.

  9. - Top - End - #1149
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    LA -0 for the last of these Golems. A couple of intriguing abilities wrapped up in a mediocre to bad chassis, which I think is the most common designation after 'too much RHD, period.'

  10. - Top - End - #1150
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Concur, -0.
    RHD inflation is all too common.
    No DM is ever truly out of tricks to mess with his/her players.
    No player is ever truly out of ways to surprise their DM.
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  11. - Top - End - #1151
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Enough golems . . .
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
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  12. - Top - End - #1152
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Enough golems . . .
    Go big or go lem?

    There was a mage who had a guard, and GOLEM was its name-o?

    Go lem or go home?

    Wake me up, before you GOLEM?

  13. - Top - End - #1153
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Cause you're not planning on golem solo?

  14. - Top - End - #1154
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Golem Power Rangers!

  15. - Top - End - #1155
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Golem yourself.

    Golem for great justice.

    Pokemon Golem (they took care of that one long ago)
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  16. - Top - End - #1156
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    But what about the butter golem?
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

  17. - Top - End - #1157
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Well, that's a butter idea than it sounds.

  18. - Top - End - #1158
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    Well, that's a butter idea than it sounds.
    Yeah. Pretty slick.
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  19. - Top - End - #1159
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    All right, all right, we're getting off-topic into puns! This is not constructive!

  20. - Top - End - #1160
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWarlock View Post
    All right, all right, we're getting off-topic into puns! This is not constructive!
    It may not be the main topic, but whatís wrong with a few side notes scribbled in the margarines?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 27. Everyone is welcome!

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  21. - Top - End - #1161
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    There's a truly remarkable proof of this, but sadly the only writing surface was a Tiny Margarine Golem.

  22. - Top - End - #1162
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Grimweird


    Before I say anything about its LA: I want to make it clear that the grimweird is a very interesting monster that I like a lot. The idea of a summon-spamming, hell-annoying, frail corpse is quite neat, if only I say so myself.

    Their chassis is, naturally, weak. 12 undead RHD, low stats (20 charisma is the highest, and not particularly impressive), absolutely awful strength (better hope you got a party mule), and two natural claws that are only mildly interesting because of the negative level they inflict.

    The most notable special ability is Unholy Grace, which add's the grimweird's charisma bonus to its saving throws and AC. This is quite an useful ability, as I'm sure everybody will agree.

    Finally, there's the grimweird's real selling point: the SLAs. Summon Monster VI every 5 rounds, with an initial duration of 12 rounds, means that at any point you can have two reasonably powerful summons at your beck and call.

    The most obvious point of comparison for these guys, in my opinion, would be the Star Spawn Binder, who gets the similar ability to summon monsters every half-minute. Obviously those abilities aren't equal: the binder initially has access to less powerful summons (though it gets stronger ones from level 14 on), has different limitations on what it can call (only evil creatures vs. pseudonatural ones), and the binder will have an easier time raising their caster level.

    Furthermore, the grimweird also gets 1/5 rounds standard-action Lesser Planar Binding. However, without Magic Circle or Dimensional Anchor, and the hatred of every lower planes being in existence, I strongly doubt this ability will be very useful. That said, with a reasonable UMD score and a wand, this SLA can quickly turn very powerful. Because of the general shenanigans that result from summoning a fiend every thirty seconds, I'll add an asterisk.

    However, considering everything I think that at +0* LA the grimweird can make a fine tier 3 character, at least. Feel free to discuss.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-08-20 at 06:32 AM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  23. - Top - End - #1163
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    I'm a bit conflicted about this one. I'd say it's very playable at level 12, even when being restricted to only summoning evil creatures. Summoned creatures can provide some utility as well since the SLA is essentially spammable.

    However, there's no way to make his SLA's level up (IE: get summon monster 7 at 14 HD, 8 at 16, etc.), so by the time you're level 20, you're still stuck with summon monster 6, and that's not really going to cut it at that level.
    Last edited by DeTess; 2018-08-17 at 09:05 AM. Reason: grammar
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  24. - Top - End - #1164
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    I'm a bit conflicted about this one. I'd say its very playable at level 12, even when being restricted to only summoning evil creatures. Summoned creatures can provide som utility as well as the SLA is essentially spammable.

    However, there's no way to make his SLA's level up (IE: get summon monster 7 at 14 HD, 8 at 16, etc.), so by the time you're level 20, you're still stuck with summon monster 6, and that's not really going to cut it at that level.
    Yeah, it's both under-powered if you look at it over many levels, and over-powered if you give it enough down-time to bind an army.

    Given the T1 brokenness of the Planar Binding chain, this thing is probably LA +0*, where the * indicates both too much power (at-will binding of an army) and too little power (needs better scaling for summons & binding).

    As written, it's going to be a problem -- but with mechanical compromises to make it neither overpowered nor underpowered, it's a solid concept.

  25. - Top - End - #1165
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    To quote Vengerís comments in the Awful Monster Names thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    grimweirds are a bad name in the vein of maulgoth. you can't just take two dark or spoopy words and smash them together like the two-headed monster from sesame street to make a monster.
    Anyway. I echo the sentiment that this thing is playable in the ECL 12-14 range, but thereís basically no classes it can take by RAW that will continue to keep it relevant in the late game, because its power comes from an innate ability that doesnít scale (and itís got way too many awful RHD to just start over). Thatís a confusing spot to be in, to be honest. It has enough magic that itís not an automatic -0, but once the summons stop being relevant, so does the critter.

    I guess it could take Wizard (or, with that CHA, probably Sorc) levels until it gets Magic Circle, which would make its Planar Binding stronger? Without shenanigans, though, itís ECL 17/18 before it could get Magic Circle honestly, and by then LPB, while still better than what a Fighter is bringing to the table, is somewhat unimpressive.

    Does it qualify for any weird PrCs with its HD alone?

  26. - Top - End - #1166
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Consulting the Summoner's Desk Reference tells me the grimweird can potentially summon an amnizu every five rounds, each of which can cast three quickened fireballs (CL 14). Grimweirds can't, however, use Quicken (or Maximize, Empower, ...) Spell-like Ability on their summon monster VI, which is a real shame--the ability to get 6-7 howlers in a single casting would be pretty great, even at ECL 12+ (Quills: DM, roll 6d4 Reflex saves please).

    Ideally, a grimweird would enter Malconvoker, but it doesn't have the alignment, nor the ability to cast summon monster III. However, you can make an alignment-flipped version (Bonconvoker?) who would deceive Good creatures into working for Evil, and that would make for one badass PC. Also, a stackable feat that upgrades the level/CL of summon monster by 1 and 2 (up to maximum of 1/2 HD and HD respectively) wouldn't be out of the question, homebrew-wise, and that would keep the grimweird in business right up to ECL 20.

    Despite the potential, I have to go for -0 here, on the grounds that it doesn't scale beyond its ECL 12-14 domain. Still, it is far more interesting to fix up than any of the other non-scaling monsters we've seen so far.
    Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2018-08-17 at 06:01 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #1167
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Grimweird: what an odd creature. It is competent and has the potential to abuse its two marquee abilities, but the lack of scaling cuts the legs out from under a build. Even pushing into Epic with a Sorcerer build-what I would consider the most viable to improve summoning and take advantage of binding-you will be a minimum of 12 levels behind, or 8 with Practiced Spellcaster and no lost caster levels. You will not gain your full allotment of spells until ECL 32, and have no way to close the gap-a gap where even Martials will have had the time to take most of a full caster class.

    Overall, this thing will feel outdone around ECL 15, when the casters get level 8 summons and Greater Planar Binding/Ally. It will still hold its own with tier 3 until closer to ECL 18, but past that it is dropping into tier 4 somewhere below the balance point of this thread. With that in mind, I will say LA -0*, with the asterisk signifying DM caution below ECL 15. This thing only has a couple of tricks that do not scale, but they are good tricks ripe for some abuse at lower levels.
    Last edited by ViperMagnum357; 2018-08-17 at 10:27 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #1168
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Hmm. I think the Grimweird might be able to qualify for the Nar Demonbinder PrC from Unapproachable East.
    If the SLAs are permitted to cover for the spellcasting prereq of "able to cast 4th level arcane or divine spells, knowledge of at least one summon monster spell".
    That gets you to level 19, and some spellcasting, though the Nar Demonbinder only has 4th-8th level casting from a very limited list. Though, since it includes the planar binding line and everything you need to use it ... you will be 4 levels behind on spell level, though.
    Caster level will be crap, by RAW, since it's Nar Demonbinder levels plus levels in one other spellcasting class of choice.


    If the DM allows you to go Nar Demonbinder, and smooth over some of the technicality issues (ie, caster level), then you warrant a stable +0*. I think. You're still 4 levels behind on planar binding upgrades, though, and that's basically your entire thing.
    If not, then while it's technically playable and competitive at its level (with a DM caution), it soon drops to -0* because it's nonscaling.
    No DM is ever truly out of tricks to mess with his/her players.
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  29. - Top - End - #1169
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperMagnum357 View Post
    Grimweird: what an odd creature. It is competent and has the potential to abuse its two marquee abilities, but the lack of scaling cuts the legs out from under a build. Even pushing into Epic with a Sorcerer build-what I would consider the most viable to improve summoning and take advantage of binding-you will be a minimum of 12 levels behind, or 8 with Practiced Spellcaster and no lost caster levels. You will not gain your full allotment of spells until ECL 32, and have no way to close the gap-a gap where even Martials will have had the time to take most of a full caster class.

    Overall, this thing will feel outdone around ECL 15, when the casters get level 8 summons and Greater Planar Binding/Ally. It will still hold its own with tier 3 until closer to ECL 18, but past that it is dropping into tier 4 somewhere below the balance point of this thread. With that in mind, I will say LA -0*, with the asterisk signifying DM caution below ECL 15. This thing only has a couple of tricks that do not scale, but they are good tricks ripe for some abuse at lower levels.
    Practiced Spellcaster only gets you Caster Levels back. It won't do anything for all the lost Spellcaster Levels you've lost that give you access to new spell levels and spells per day. So it can give you some straight numbers back, but none of the fun stuff.
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  30. - Top - End - #1170
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard

    I would think the grimweird would be fairly powerful at the start, and at the end of epic, and be okay along side bards, and the like. summon monster is dozens of abilities. However, the limit on evil creatures only gives me a little bit of pause on that, but i think you might be able to summon an evil mephit or janni.

    I'm not assuming planar binding is going to be allowed unerfed, as that just breaks the game to readily.
    Last edited by Lans; 2018-08-18 at 12:07 PM.

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