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2018-04-15, 04:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
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2018-04-15, 05:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
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2018-04-15, 05:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I'd prefer MM3. EPH would be nice, too, but more niche.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2018-04-15, 06:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
MM3, although Fiend Folio not being an option makes me a little sad (just a little).
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2018-04-15, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2018-04-15, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2017
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I vote MM3 with ToM as a follow-up for a change of pace.
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2018-04-15, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Location
- Karrnath
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Going to second the wishes of an eph one, there are a few templates in there that while undoubtedly strong, don't deserve the la they have and I'd like to see what the giants choose for it
However MM 3 I believe should come after MM2
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2018-04-15, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2018-04-15, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-04-15, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Gainesville, GA
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
MM3, because it's been a while since we did a Monster Manual
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2018-04-15, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
MM3, but I second Fiend Folio. And EPH, I suppose.
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2018-04-15, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
MM3 if we are going to do another MM. But I will still keep harping on Dragons of Krynn-relatively short, and the ten varieties of Draconian with numerous class features should provide some good discussion-especially with all ten being effectively subspecies for more direct comparison.
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2018-04-15, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I'm down with MM3 because we just did a weird book, so jumping into another weird book (FF or ToM) wouldn't feel as weird as those books deserve. We must layer blandness and weirdness into a monster manual sandwich.
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2018-04-16, 03:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2018
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Yeah, my suggestion of the Young template was for the purpose of rating a child/fetus Unholy Scion. Sorry for any confusion!
I agree with doing MM3 next.
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2018-04-16, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
- Location
- Why am I here?
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I think MM3 would be good, but can someone refresh my memory on what silliness I can expect from that book? I seem to recall MM2 had the really goofy stuff like CR20 leviathans and mountain giants that had 4 int and no defense against Int damage.
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2018-04-16, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2018-04-16, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I mean, how often can you just pick up the Big Bad and cook him? There'd probably be some serious fallout from that down the line, but it would be so worth it just for the unique opportunity.
There is logic to this suggestion. Logic I'm inclined to agree with.
The weirdest thing I can think of off the top of my head would be the living spells. Those could get pretty silly if the right spell was chosen...
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2018-04-16, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Curiously, I believe that the Unholy Scion does not have a CR adjustment listed. IIRC, anyways.
If it does have one, I don't remember what it is.
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2018-04-17, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Ambush Drake
MM3 it is!
Behold the delightful ambush drake: first monster of this new book. Its CR-to-HD ratio is somewhat concerning (5:7) but then again it's dragon type so perhaps that'll balance it out.
Ambush drakes are medium-sized, have bonuses to all physical stats and small penalties to intelligence and charisma (though they're still smarter than, say, ogres), and enjoy +6 natural armor. They have an above-average land speed and a slower, poor, fly speed (still useful for avoiding obstacles and such).
Furthermore, ambush drakes have a bite that deals dexterity damage (not bad at all), as well as two claws. They have a breath weapon that causes a Slow effect which lasts for 7 turns, giving them a decent debuff. Finally, they get the oddball Telepathic Link, which is largely useless if no other PCs are ambush drakes.
So what LA to give? Considering the pretty good RHD, the quite useable abilities, and the okay chassis, I feel like +0 can be justified here.Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-04-18 at 05:05 AM.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2018-04-17, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I wonder if the telepathic link thing can be wrangled into Mindsight -- having 30 ft. Mindsight would be pretty spiffy.
Even without that, it's like a limited Sliver effect, for the other Ambush Drakes in your party: if anyone has immunity to Flanking, then everybody does. If anyone has immunity to surprise, then everybody does. If anyone is special, then everyone is.
Pity about the Charisma penalty, though the huge +8 Con buff does tend to make up for that, if you're using point-buy. +4 Dex and +6 Str aren't bad either.
At low optimization, flying is good, the Slow breath is a great de-buff, and immunity to paralysis means you can tank some nasty enemies like ghouls & grell.
At higher optimization, starting at 7 Dragon HD makes a tolerable prefix for Divine Crusader -> Sovereign Speaker shenanigans, or you could use the good Dragon base saving throws to get into Ur-Priest.
LA +0 seems fine.I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-04-17, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Ambush Drake: Look Ma, no hands! I anticipate saying variations on that quite a bit-no manipulator/grasper limbs is such an awful fate. Solid overall, and seems like, for once, a roughly appropriate CR; solid all round scores/AC, flight, scent, static SR, area debuff, decent poison rider on bites, and the always tasty racial bonus on Hide.
I am okay with LA +0. It has a solid spread of abilities and a couple of decent attacks, plus the RHD are Dragon; however, it still has 7 RHD and no hands, so the cost is rather steep. The static SR is not winning me over, either.
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2018-04-17, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
+0 works for me. Solid chassis and decent build flexibility in spite of being very physically oriented. Not hard to have a few nifty tricks while still being a melee beast. Fly speed is bleh but there are fixes if I want. An all around solid choice.
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2018-04-17, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Slow is a nice effect, and the duration is solid; mutatis mutandis the same holds for the poison. Poison and breath weapon DC both scale with Constitution, which makes you quite the juggernaut, and goes nicely with incarnum. You get 6 skill points per HD and four good class skills, which is nice, but those four good class skills are also your only class skills, and your Intelligence gets a -4 racial penalty. It might be difficult to qualify for PrCs outside the "ambusher" niche, which does reduce your build versatility even more than the lack of class features already does. For example, Totem Rager seems like a good fit for the ambush drake (good PrC, incarnum doesn't care about low int/cha, adds a lot of utility, scales well with RHD), but it requires Survival and Intimidate, which means you're burning cross-class skill ranks, Intelligence point-buy, or qualifying with additional levels (and it already takes 10 HD to qualify as ambush drake 7/barbarian 1/totemist 2). ToB classes have similar issues.
I don't think they're quite bad enough to warrant -0 at tier 4--it's viable to focus on pure (melee) combat at that tier. At tier 3, I would call it -0, because it's seven levels without class features, and you can't contribute well enough in certain areas (due to the lack of hands, for example).Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2018-04-17, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2016
- Location
- Canterlot, Equestria
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Definitely -0. No hands and seven levels without class features is bad, even for melee characters. Difficult to stay relevant when you can't even use magic weapons.
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2018-04-17, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Two people so far have complained about a lack of hands, but honestly that left forelimb sure looks like it ends in a clawed hand, complete with an opposable thumb.
The monster's text says that it prefers to run on all fours, which means that NOT running on all fours is an option -- so it could also stand upright if it wanted, and that's useful for a PC.
Is there any rules text which would deny this guy hands? Or is that just an assumption (which appears to be contradicted by the image)?I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-04-17, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I'd say no. Or, if it can be turned into Mindsight, you can only perceive other Ambush Drakes with it.
Even without that, it's like a limited Sliver effect, for the other Ambush Drakes in your party: if anyone has immunity to Flanking, then everybody does. If anyone has immunity to surprise, then everybody does. If anyone is special, then everyone is.
Pity about the Charisma penalty, though the huge +8 Con buff does tend to make up for that, if you're using point-buy. +4 Dex and +6 Str aren't bad either.
At low optimization, flying is good, the Slow breath is a great de-buff, and immunity to paralysis means you can tank some nasty enemies like ghouls & grell.
At higher optimization, starting at 7 Dragon HD makes a tolerable prefix for Divine Crusader -> Sovereign Speaker shenanigans, or you could use the good Dragon base saving throws to get into Ur-Priest.
LA +0 seems fine.
I'm not sure there's anything definitive behind the no-hands assumption.
As regards the image ... the left forelimb does appear to have certain handlike features, including a semi-opposable thumb, but the thumb does not appear to have a joint extending beyond the "palm" area, that's just claw, namely the keratin/equivalent, and it's curved - that would also appear to apply to the other fingers/claws/rest of the paw; all of that would combine to significantly limit the useable dexterity. My best guess is that the ambush drake's forepaws are somewhat like a bear's forepaws, moreso than a human's hands.
In addition, going by the image, the forelimbs would appear to have possibly limited range of motion, and the configuration of the rear limbs and tail would argue against much upright/bipedal locomotion.
Admittedly, it is a strong possibility that the artist was not aware of whether or not the ambush drake was supposed to have hands/opposable thumbs or not.
For that matter, if we're weighting the image particularly heavily, the ambush drake would appear to have sight (eyeball location, orientation, and resultant field of vision) more consistent with a prey species than a predator species. And too much surrounding ridges, with the eye set too far into the skull to even provide a decent field of vision.
The context of that "preferring to run on all fours" bit is in comparison to its flight - specifically "An ambush drake prefers to move about on all fours, only using its undersized wings when necessary." Bolding mine, but it's not support for bipedal/upright locomotion.
However, there is a phrase in the description that could be used to support having hands - stronger support than the preferring four legs line:
"While one ambush drake might use an item at any given moment, the pack owns the treasure, and tomorrow another ambush drake might use it."
It's not explicit, but it can certainly be taken as an implication that they have hands/handlike manipulators to use items.
Of course, WotC being WotC, the question whether or not the ambush drake has hands/equivalent manipulators or what it has in lieu of such capability, is not exactly a question I expect got much consideration, if any.
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2018-04-18, 02:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I think +0 is fine, decent stat boosts, slow breath weapon and dragon chasis seems appropriate for tier 4.
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2018-04-18, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
LA will be changed to +0.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2018-04-18, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
I'd rule that Mindsight only lets you see creatures you could telepathically connect with, but we're not talking common-sense houserules, so that would probably work.
Biologist here! Lots of animals have digits that look a bit like opposable thumbs, and some actually are opposable. Look at bird talons, for instance. However, most of these would not be capable of using tools or weapons; they could hold a hammer, but they couldn't use it against nails (or skeletons).
Not to mention that the right foreclaw looks an awful lot like the claws of many animals with absolutely no ability to hold things. We have to look at all provided evidence, not just cherry-pick the ones that fit our preferred conclusion.
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2018-04-18, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
Telepathy allows you to connect to only creatures that have a language, and Mindsight detects non-languaged creatures just fine.
You'd be ignoring or re-writing the rules.
The rules-legal hardline stance to invalidate my theoretical wrangling would be that an ability named Telepathy is required to use Mindsight, and Ambush Drakes lack an ability with that name. But they don't lack telepathy, and Mindsight does NOT require the ability to communicate with a target.
That's excellent news. The major issue is stuff like holding a wand -- not swinging a hammer -- so it sounds like the Official Biologist™ ruling would be that many creatures can use magic items just fine, even if they can't use normal weapons.
It's nice to see a less-binary opinion on digits.I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.