"How much does that cost?" The Thread

[RMS Oceanic]

This thread is dedicated to working out the cost of homebrewed magic items. And I have the first question!

I'm designing a ring that lets you cast Wraithstrike (Wizard/Sorceror 2, Assassin 3) on yourself, once per round as a swift action. How much would it cost for:

1. 1/encounter.
2. 3/day.
3. Unlimited usage.
4. Option 3 with 1d6 damage with each usage, or some other appropriate drawback.

I've tried to work it out, but I seem to get a cost of 10,800 GP for option 3, which seems cheap for what the spell does.

[martyboy74]

Just so you know, there's no RAW way to have a swift action activation time. Command word is a standard action, and at will is a free action. So, using at will (which is the closest thing to what you want), you get the following prices.

1) 14,400 (assuming 4 encounters per day, there's no price mechanic for 'per encounter').
2) 10,800.
3) 18,000
4) Cursed items have no set pricing structure; that's entirely up to the DM.

Note: If these were on a spot that fit the magic better (ex: bracers), they would only cost 2/3 as much. This is so cheap because Wraithstrike is a broken spell.

[Tyger]

This thread is dedicated to working out the cost of homebrewed magic items. And I have the first question!

I'm designing a ring that lets you cast Wraithstrike (Wizard/Sorceror 2, Assassin 3) on yourself, once per round as a swift action. How much would it cost for:

1. 1/encounter.
2. 3/day.
3. Unlimited usage.
4. Option 3 with 1d6 damage with each usage, or some other appropriate drawback.

I've tried to work it out, but I seem to get a cost of 10,800 GP for option 3, which seems cheap for what the spell does.

And of course, what you should be doing is comparing this item to existing ones, rather than just applying the formula. Wraithstrike is right up there with True Strike for brokenness if you have it at will usage. reasonable DMs are going to crank that price way, way up.

[Kyace]

PS: when making continuous magic items for spells with durations measured in rounds, multiply the price by 4.

[Saph]

I've tried to work it out, but I seem to get a cost of 10,800 GP for option 3, which seems cheap for what the spell does.

There is no way to 'work it out'. The Custom Magic Item Creation guidelines are general guidelines. They work okay for utility spells and for modifying items to do similar things to what they do already. They do NOT work when you try and exploit them, especially when you try to exploit a spell as broken as Wraithstrike. I mean, for heaven's sake - the ONE limiting factor on Wraithstrike is that the classes that get the most use out of it (full BAB types with Power Attack) can't cast it without a gish build specifically designed for the purpose. This item is designed to get rid of that one limiting factor.

The only real way to price items correctly is to ask the following two questions:

• Is this item so underpriced that anyone who can use and afford it will buy it?

• Is this item so overpriced that no-one who can use and afford it will buy it?

Once the answer to the "should I buy it?" question becomes "maybe", then the item is correctly priced.

Now, let's take your 'continuous Wraithstrike' item, basically making all your melee attacks into touch attacks, permanently. This is the equivalent of getting somewhere between a +5 and +20 bonus on all your attacks. Let's say it averages out to somewhere around +10. Assuming Power Attack and a two-handed weapon, that's the equivalent of improving the enhancement bonus on your weapon by +6 or so. So a fighter with a +1 weapon and this ring has the equivalent of a +7 weapon.

So what does that make it worth?

Basically, the answer is 'more than you can afford'. A +7 weapon costs 980,000. A permanent-Wraithstrike ring is actually more powerful than a +7 weapon, as you can improve it much more easily. So maybe 2,000,000 or so, and that's a wild guess. It might still be underpriced even at that.

Some spells just shouldn't be made into magic items, and Wraithstrike is one of them.

- Saph

[Tyger]

*huggles Saph*

As always, exactly on point.

I note that there is yet another "What price for a True Strike" item thread started up above as well. Seems these spells just cry out for attention.

Oh well, back to my large cappuccino with 4 extra shots of espresso.

[Saph]

*huggles Saph*

As always, exactly on point.

:)

I note that there is yet another "What price for a True Strike" item thread started up above as well. Seems these spells just cry out for attention.

Yup. I think they're going to be around forever, at least until 4th Edition comes out, and then people will start figuring out ways to exploit the magic item creation rules there instead. :P

- Saph

[Citizen Joe]

Check out the comparable level Druid 2 Flameblade spell.
The real limiting factor is that you don't get your strength bonus applied to damage. RAW doesn't specifically preclude, but flavor definitely indicates that power attack shouldn't work with it.

One should also note that DM's set the actual price and the numbers presented for creation are suggested guidelines. Ultimately, the DM decides if an item is possible. And as a warning to DMs, no matter how awesome you might think a magic item is, and how tough you think it makes your BBEG, the fact that you put it in the campaign means there is a strong likelihood that it will fall into the PC's hands.

OK, now my request. How much would an unlimited use Tree Stride item cost?

Tree Stride
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Drd 5, Rgr 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level or until expended; see text

You gain the ability to enter trees and move from inside one tree to inside another tree. The first tree you enter and all others you enter must be of the same kind, must be living, and must have girth at least equal to yours. By moving into an oak tree (for example), you instantly know the location of all other oak trees within transport range (see below) and may choose whether you want to pass into one or simply step back out of the tree you moved into. You may choose to pass to any tree of the appropriate kind within the transport range as shown on the following table.

You may move into a tree up to one time per caster level (passing from one tree to another counts only as moving into one tree). The spell lasts until the duration expires or you exit a tree. Each transport is a full-round action.

You can, at your option, remain within a tree without transporting yourself, but you are forced out when the spell ends. If the tree in which you are concealed is chopped down or burned, you are slain if you do not exit before the process is complete.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

OK, now my request. How much would an unlimited use Tree Stride item cost?

Boots of Tree Stride:
9x5x2000 = 90,000 GP.

[Citizen Joe]

Boots of Tree Stride:
9x5x2000 = 90,000 GP.

Now the question becomes, is that too much? It is AMAZINGLY useful in a forest. Even if you're just using it to get a night's sleep.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Now the question becomes, is that too much? It is AMAZINGLY useful in a forest. Even if you're just using it to get a night's sleep.

perhaps but what about an area without trees? If your specific campaign/adventure takes place in a dungeon these boots will be worthless, I guess that's the balancing factor.

[Citizen Joe]

Feather token Tree... repeatedly

EDIT:
Feather token to summon an oak. Continual flame to keep it alive underground. Drop one every 3000 feet.

[Dausuul]

Now, let's take your 'continuous Wraithstrike' item, basically making all your melee attacks into touch attacks, permanently. This is the equivalent of getting somewhere between a +5 and +20 bonus on all your attacks. Let's say it averages out to somewhere around +10. Assuming Power Attack and a two-handed weapon, that's the equivalent of improving the enhancement bonus on your weapon by +6 or so. So a fighter with a +1 weapon and this ring has the equivalent of a +7 weapon.

So what does that make it worth?

Basically, the answer is 'more than you can afford'. A +7 weapon costs 980,000. A permanent-Wraithstrike ring is actually more powerful than a +7 weapon, as you can improve it much more easily. So maybe 2,000,000 or so, and that's a wild guess. It might still be underpriced even at that.

Some spells just shouldn't be made into magic items, and Wraithstrike is one of them.

- Saph

Do note, however, that the OP was also asking about versions that wouldn't be always-on, e.g., a "once per encounter" version.

For a once/encounter version (or perhaps "5 minute recharge time"), I would say it should be danged expensive but not horrifically so. Just off the top of my head, I'd say 120,000 gp seems about right. If I were a high-level warrior type, I'd definitely have to think before dropping 120K on such an item, but it would certainly be worth considering.

[Mewtarthio]

Feather token Tree... repeatedly

EDIT:
Feather token to summon an oak. Continual flame to keep it alive underground. Drop one every 3000 feet.

Monsters eat tree, breaking the chain. In a forest, the Bad Guys have to clear-cut everything within 3000*CL feet to get you. In a dungeon, things are much simpler.

[skeeter_dan]

My DM last campaign made the horrific mistake of making one of the character's ancestral swords (lifted from the BBEG's treasure chamber) have a special ability akin to Wraithstrike. We absolutely destroyed several encounters that were supposed to be a major challenge. Fortunately, we're a good-willed group and began limiting our usage of the sword to avoid destroying our DM's mind.

What I'm saying is, that item better be horrifically expensive...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Now the question becomes, is that too much? It is AMAZINGLY useful in a forest. Even if you're just using it to get a night's sleep.

I don't think it is too much. It is a teleport/dimension door at will effect as long as you are near trees and it also has other uses, as you say.

[Citizen Joe]

I don't think it is too much. It is a teleport/dimension door at will effect as long as you are near trees and it also has other uses, as you say.

Yea, its up around level 13-14 WBL... a 1/day version would be in the 7-8 WBL range. It makes that ranger or druid lord/caretaker of the forest particularly nasty.

I could even see a druid specifically planting certain types of trees in a specific pattern so as to make a multilayered network.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yea, its up around level 13-14 WBL... a 1/day version would be in the 7-8 WBL range. It makes that ranger or druid lord/caretaker of the forest particularly nasty.

I could even see a druid specifically planting certain types of trees in a specific pattern so as to make a multilayered network.

Yeah, it is really a nifty little thing. If I get a chance to make a Woodsy antagonist at a high enough level I will consider using these boots.

[Kioran]

I figured using Rings with a CL 3 Silent shocking grasp as a kind of concealed weapon for a Roguey NPC of mine, using the formula presented in the DMG. It has three uses per day, and because of the Silent spell, doesn´t need a command word, but a short string of hand signs (still a standard action, but inaudible).

I figured pricing it at 6000 (1800*2(Spell level)*3(CL)*3/5).

Is it even worth that much money? Because I think it´s neat - a piece of jewelry with some punch, and, correct me if I´m wrong, you can Sneak attack with a touch spell.

[Chronos]

That Shocking Grasp ring isn't too bad. There was even a Ring of Shocking Grasp explicitly in the 2nd-edition DMG. It's about the same damage as a nonmagical sword, with the main advantage being its concealability. Sneak Attack would work with it, but then, Sneak Attack will also work with an unarmed strike, which is even more concealable.