[3.5] Advancing Monsters with Bloodlines?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

How does racial/monster HD progression interact with bloodlines? Do they just delay gaining a hit die at the same “level” as a PC would delay a class level?

[Nifft]

How does racial/monster HD progression interact with bloodlines?

Ambiguously, since Bloodlines are poorly written.

Do they just delay gaining a hit die at the same “level” as a PC would delay a class level?

Maybe. Or maybe class levels are special, as they seem to be with respect to stuff like buying off LA.

Your best bet is to be the DM.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I am the DM. Just trying to figure out how to do this in a way that’s fair to the players while not being too stunted HD-wise to challenge them, you know?

What do you think each tier of bloodline does to CR, if it delays but doesn’t replace the racial HD?

[Nifft]

I am the DM. Just trying to figure out how to do this in a way that’s fair to the players while not being too stunted HD-wise to challenge them, you know?

Do all the PCs get Bloodlines? Do you waive LA / allow LA buyoff? Do any PCs not have LA? Do all the PCs have monster HD?

If everyone has a Bloodline and there's no distinction in LA, then it's totally fair to allow monster HD to count as class levels for the purpose of Bloodlines.

You still have to work out exactly how Bloodlines interact with multi-classing -- most of the time they're brought up, it's to abuse highly multi-classed builds, and having monster HD + class levels might mean the same sort of thing.


IMHO the most fair thing is to give everyone a Bloodline, and not charge them any HD for access to their abilities -- they all just get their perks for free when they are high enough ECL. Since everyone has a Bloodline, nobody is shafted by getting less free stuff, and it's a bit less work to track.

You might also do a thing where some people get free LA, and other people get a free Bloodline. I don't have much faith in the balance of LA so you'd need to eyeball the specific cases to decide if they're fairly balanced against a Bloodline. You might also mix low LA with a lesser Bloodline as a package -- like a Half-Dragon Gnome (with no Bloodline), a Drow (with a lesser Bloodline), and a Silverbrow Human (with a greater Bloodline) -- not entirely balanced, but not terrible either.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

No, the players don’t have bloodlines or LA. This is purely for something they’re going to fight

[Nifft]

No, the players don’t have bloodlines or LA. This is purely for something they’re going to fight

Ooooooo!

If it's on an NPC, then it probably doesn't matter.

The abilities that an NPC gets from a Bloodline are mostly fluff, and not going to count from the perspective of challenge rating -- the relevant ones can be priced like you would price any other random special ability that you stick on a unique monster.

There is no general rule, but if you post the specific monster & abilities then people can chime in about a fair CR increase.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Thanks! That’ll have to wait a few hours (I’m on mobile atm) but I’ll definitely do so.