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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Welcome back to the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! With this round, I've now run more rounds than the previous Chair, so I don't think I need to call it "rebooted" anymore. This baby is mine now.

    Note to our returning contestants and judges: There are some minor but significant updates to our presentation rules and our judging rules, so please actually read them and don't assume that you know what's coming.

    The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 base class (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take all or almost all of their levels in said SI.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in four categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient. The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best (and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread). And then we all have cake!*

    *Note: You must provide your own cake.

    This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!

    • Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 4:59 PM GMT - 8 on Friday, March 30, 2018 (12:59 AM GMT on Saturday, March 31). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent one. Judging is then expected (*cough*) to take no more than two weeks, so we'll put the judging deadline at two weeks after that. (You can do the math yourselves; I don't want to put two dates here and confuse people.)
      Notice that this is slightly earlier in the day than previous deadlines; the goal is to have the deadline be around the time the Chair gets off of work on that particular day, thereby allowing him to post the builds without having to stay up super late or wait until the next day.
    • Kitchen: Almost all first-party 3.5 sources are legal. Dragon Magazine is disallowed except as noted below, but Dragon Compendium (and its errata) is allowed. Online material from the WotC website is legal except for unupdated 3.0 psionics, which are banned. (If you use online material, please provide a link to the source.) Unearthed Arcana is legal for paragon classes, alternate races, and alternate class features, but not for fractional BAB/saves, item familiars, generic classes, prestigious character classes, gestalt, bloodlines, LA buyoff, or similar rule variants.
      We will borrow the existing standard for traits and flaws; they are legal, but traits warrant a –0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a –1 point penalty in Elegance.
      Leadership is banned, as is any other feat or class feature that gives you something equivalent. (Familiars and improved familiars are fine, Wild Cohort is fine, psicrystals and elemental envoys are fine, animal companions are fine, but Thrallherd is not fine, for example.)
      Official errata is considered to be in play, including the Dragon 318 update to Oriental Adventures (but nothing else in Dragon 318).
      Judges are not to penalize for the use of a large or small number of sources, nor are they to penalize for using an "obscure" source in one's build. Judges may, however, penalize for using a source without listing it, so please provide a list of sources! It is up to the discretion of each judge whether it is inelegant to "cross setting lines" (by using, for example, Forgotten Realms and Eberron material in the same build).
      Pathfinder is not allowed. Unupdated 3.0 material is allowed, and the general-purpose 3.0-to-3.5 skill updates (Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction become Survival, Read Lips becomes Sense Motive, etc.) should be used when appropriate. If 3.0 material has been updated to 3.5, use the 3.5 version instead. If you have questions about anything in this paragraph (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.
    • Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.)
      No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
    • Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool.
    • E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels.
      We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now.
      We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
    • Presentation: Here's a table for you to use. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round.
      When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.
      If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules.
      Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't only list bonuses.
      Spoiler
      Show
      Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
      1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      Code for the table:
      Spoiler
      Show
      [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
      [tr]
      [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]1st[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]2nd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]3rd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]4th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]5th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]6th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr][/table]

    • Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat).
    • Judging guidelines: The minimum score in a category is 1. Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question.
      Judges may not penalize for a build that is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry).
      As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
      Spoiler
      Show
      Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

      Non-exhaustive list of examples:

      Skills
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
      • Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
      • Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


      Not allowed:
      • Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

      Prereqs
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
      • Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
      • Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
      • Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


      Not Allowed:
      • "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
      • Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

      Other general things that are no longer allowed:
      • Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
      • Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


      Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

    • Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.

    This round's secret ingredient: the HEXBLADE, from Complete Warrior! Allez Optimizer!

    The Builds:

    Entry Alignment/Race Stub Judge: Darrin Judge: Randuir Total Chef
    Erica D'zhar (link) CE Human Hexblade 5/Thrall to Orcus 1 20 13.5 33.5 WhamBamSam
    Tio Hexblahday (link) ?E Hellbred Hexblade 3/Sha'ir 28/Hexblade +3 16.5 15.5 32.0 daremetoidareyo
    Boros (link) LN?CN Lesser Aasimar Monk 1/Hexblade 4/Swordsage 1 16.0 14.5 30.5 Long_shanks
    Gishy McGisherton (link) ?? Human Hexblade 1/Battle Sorcerer 1/Wizard 1/Hexblade +3 11 11.5 22.5 johnbragg
    Sventir Shieldsling (link) CE Azurin Barbarian 1/Cleric 1/Hexblade 4 11.5 11 22.5 Zombulian



    Last edited by Zaq; 2018-04-07 at 11:13 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Ohhh hell yeah
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    I'm not sure i've ever read the full Hexblade class. Should be interesting :)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by RaiKirah View Post
    I'm not sure i've ever read the full Hexblade class. Should be interesting :)
    Well, you only need to have read 6 levels of it :^)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Every time I think I've got something, I remember those three damned words: "Once per day".

    I think I'm not gonna spend a lot of time trying to figure something out for this, and just watch again.


    Currently Recruiting: Nothing currently. Maybe come start one?

    Avatar by AsteriskAmp

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    tracking...
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    I have an idea, not sure if it will work out tho. Plus I am moving from Ft. Liquordale to Orlando today, YAY!!
    Currently Playing:
    Our tables 1st Tome of Battle game

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Every time I think I've got something, I remember those three damned words: "Once per day".

    I think I'm not gonna spend a lot of time trying to figure something out for this, and just watch again.
    This is going to be a hard round, but I have faith in our group here. Including folks who haven't entered before. It's still not the worst SI I've got planned for you folks. It's probably close to the worst that's currently on the list, but I don't think it quite takes the cake.

    Of course, if you don't feel like entering, we always also need judges!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    I have an idea. It takes advantage of E6 more than of the Hexblade, but if I can make it work, it would be pretty neat.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    I have some fragments of thought on this. I'll try to get something in.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DeTess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    I'll keep an eye on this one, but I want to get my junkyard wars build out first. If I don't compete, I should have time to judge.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Doctor Awkward's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Out of curiousity, is this contest going to make use of the suggested fixes to the class?

    Back on the old Wizards forums, Mike Mearls, one of the designers who helped create the class acknowledged how underpowered it was and suggested several quality of life changes to improve it's viability.

    The link I had is no longer valid. But here is the text of post:

    The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play. Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed. If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes:
    Good Fortitude save
    Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day
    Curse ability usable as a swift action
    Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw
    Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler
    At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.
    Resident Mad Scientist...

    "It's so cool!"

    Spoiler: Contests
    Show
    VC I: Lord Commander Conrad Vayne, 1st place
    VC II: Lorna, the Mother's Wrath, 5th place
    VC XV: Tosk, Kursak the Marauder, Vierna Zalyl; 1st place, 6th/7th place
    Kitchen Crashers Protocol for Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    But that's one of the things about interpreting RAW—when you pick a reading that goes against RAI, it often has a ripple effect that results in dysfunctions in other places.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Nope, that's too easy. We're using the RAW Hexblade.

    If there's sufficient interest, I could see a quick "bonus round" wherein we showcase builds using that common Mearls fix you mentioned, but actually making those builds and then judging them is likely to be more effort than most folks are willing to do when the real deal with the RAW Hexblade is in place.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    I'm following this.

    I just gave it a read through. Hexblade is a terrible class.

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    DeTess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    I'm following this.

    I just gave it a read through. Hexblade is a terrible class.

    Can't you see how well designed it is? Its only dead level is its 18th, it gets features on all other levels. This is truly the hallmark of a well-designed class, such as this one or monk. Not like Wizard, or even worse, Sorcerer, who only get a feature every other level at best.
    Last edited by DeTess; 2018-03-18 at 04:23 PM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    I'm following this.

    I just gave it a read through. Hexblade is a terrible class.
    A class bad enough that even your crazy op skills can't wring a weird trick out of it, dare? Dang. I'm impressed. I didn't think I'd hit NPC-class levels of badness yet. I see at least a couple directions to go with this one myself, though none are free from problems.

    Think you might be up for judging?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Jormengand's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post

    Can't you see how well designed it is? Its only dead level is it's 18th, it gets features on all other levels. This is truly the hallmark of a well-designed class, such as this one or monk. Not like Wizard, or even worse, Sorcerer, who only get a feature every other level at best.
    I take exception to the fact that wizard and sorcerer are badly designed being expressed sarcastically.

    Hexblade is designed worse, of course, but still.




    Vague ideas in the making. LA would have made one of my - highly silly - ideas work a bit better, but c'est la vie. I'm sure I can do something interesting... right?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post

    Can't you see how well designed it is? Its only dead level is it's 18th, it gets features on all other levels. This is truly the hallmark of a well-designed class, such as this one or monk. Not like Wizard, or even worse, Sorcerer, who only get a feature every other level at best.
    Speaking of which, Hexblade level 6... what a capstone.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    This class is thoroughly uninspiring. I'll keep ruminating on it, but i'm not feeling sanguine about my chances of getting a build in :(

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    A class bad enough that even your crazy op skills can't wring a weird trick out of it, dare? Dang. I'm impressed. I didn't think I'd hit NPC-class levels of badness yet. I see at least a couple directions to go with this one myself, though none are free from problems.

    Think you might be up for judging?
    I'm totally entering. I found a loophole that only truly terrible classes can help you scour for

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    not entering, but i want to give a appetizer suggestion since i don't think it has been done (or at least haven't been able to google-fu it).

    i think it might "work" specifically due to the E6 variation.

    TRUENAMER!!!?!!
    Quote Originally Posted by BassoonHero View Post
    No, the problem is that the limit one can achieve with physical brute force from a human body is low, very, very, very low, so obviously someone pursuing strength via muscles is not going to get far.
    This is certainly true in 3.5, but I don't think that it's an inevitable feature of the fantasy genre. Look at wuxia. Look at mythology. Look at what "peak human" means in the DC universe. I think that "strength via muscles" can do some pretty amazing things if the system allows for it.

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    I was working with the idea that the signature focus of the hexblade is abilities that don't sybergize. I have to rework--my REDACTED and REDACTED REDACTED synergize.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by death390 View Post
    not entering, but i want to give a appetizer suggestion since i don't think it has been done (or at least haven't been able to google-fu it).

    i think it might "work" specifically due to the E6 variation.

    TRUENAMER!!!?!!
    No need to shout. Anyway, Truenamer is reasonably functional in E6, but they’d also be fairly constrained and I doubt that there would be enough variation to make the round interesting.

    Besides, you’d think I’d want to run a Truenamer round where I don’t get to judge?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    No need to shout.
    There is when you're a truenamer.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Jormengand's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Maybe I'm biased, but I would far, far rather be dealing with truenamer than hexblade about now.

  26. - Top - End - #26
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Maybe I'm biased, but I would far, far rather be dealing with truenamer than hexblade about now.
    I'd settle for the updated Hexblade where the original designer admitted that he'd come to realize it was complete utter garbage that couldn't even really use it's primary class feature.


    Currently Recruiting: Nothing currently. Maybe come start one?

    Avatar by AsteriskAmp

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Long_shanks View Post
    Speaking of which, Hexblade level 6... what a capstone.
    Uh excuse me sir, but haven't you checked the Dead Levels WotC article?
    At level 6... Hexblade gets... get this.. drumroll please..

    PRESTIDIGITATION
    AS
    A
    1st
    LEVEL
    SPELL

    wooooooooo
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    Uh excuse me sir, but haven't you checked the Dead Levels WotC article?
    At level 6... Hexblade gets... get this.. drumroll please..

    PRESTIDIGITATION
    AS
    A
    1st
    LEVEL
    SPELL

    wooooooooo
    Didn't the chairman forbid that thing? Or is this a separate online admittance from the designers as to their utter incompetence?


    Currently Recruiting: Nothing currently. Maybe come start one?

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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Didn't the chairman forbid that thing? Or is this a separate online admittance from the designers as to their utter incompetence?
    Yeah it's different. Dead Levels was an article series that is legitimate WotC material.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)

    Yes, the Dead Levels articles are legit.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

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