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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Barbarian vs fighter

    Which is stronger? Obviously its about build and player and stronger does not equal better blah blah etc etc. But I wonder, in the opinions of all you folk, which has more potential.



    and the answer is not Wizard/codzilla so please don't muddle this thread with that garbage because I will be sorely disappointed in you if you do.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Are we talking Core or Non Core?

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    I don't believe it's terribly relevant. Just remember that it's the core classes, no variants.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    I don't believe it's terribly relevant.
    Introducing non-core material would help the fighter much more than the barbarian, since he's in a better position to take advantage of non-core feats.

    Another relevant question would be who the opponents are. Are we talking a straight-up fight between the fighter and the barbarian, or are we asking how each would fare against other opponents? And if the latter, which opponents?

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Let me clarify. You're playing a new campaign. Pretty much if it's WotC it's allowed. Your class choices are barbarian or fighter, which do you think is better/more potentially potent and why.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    The barbarian, with its happy box full of rages, has a clear advantage over the fighter. At least in the short term... which, admittedly, is what most DMs stage their battles in. But everything changes after that rage wears off.

    That aside: The barbarian is stronger, harder to kill, and faster than the fighter. The fighter has more flexibility and can fight at full power all day long. And, hell, the right stack of feats (and fighters positively ooze feats) can make up for a lot. The right feats and fighters are the gods of melee and range.

    I would say that barbarians are easy to do well. Their awesomeness is inbuilt. Fighters need to be built carefully... not just stuck with whatever feat sounded cool at the time and whatnot.
    Last edited by Hectonkhyres; 2007-08-30 at 09:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    I say fighter, if only because the power attack/shock trooper/leap attack chain takes only four feats, a paltry amount compared to the amount of feats a typical fighter gets. A barbarian, on the other hand, can't get all those feats until level 9.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Barbarian can get a better damage output, but really multiclassing is the way to go for these classes. Both are generally dip classes.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Well, not everyone dips. That's definately a valid play style but I for one usually play a class and then a prestige class (or not) and call it a day.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ocato View Post
    Well, not everyone dips. That's definately a valid play style but I for one usually play a class and then a prestige class (or not) and call it a day.
    Then you'll probably want a Barbarian. A fighter's "class features" don't improve dramatically when you increase in levels, so unless you're dipping it, its going to fall behind rather quickly. A fighter gets feats faster, but when the Barbarian starts catching up on feats, its much more solid.

    Plus a Fighter can't qualify for Frenzied Berserker on its own.
    Last edited by yango; 2007-08-30 at 09:36 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    The Barbarian is better general purpose combat adventurer with his mix of decent skill points, trap sense, inbuilt DR.

    The Fighter is a better combat build (although it should be noted they gain a lot from 1 level of Barb - Rage, if it doesn't cause xp penalties). The Fighter feats means that you can explore a number of feat heavy options that aren't really available to the Barbarian.

    Stephen

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by yango View Post
    Plus a Fighter can't qualify for Frenzied Berserker on its own.
    Most DMs will murder you the instant you say those two words together in the same sentance.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres View Post
    Most DMs will murder you the instant you say those two words together in the same sentance.
    Really? Most of the DMs I know wouldn't.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    I mentioned this over in the Poison thread...

    If you make a tough character that is a combat god, the DM is just going to up the danger level to compensate. It's an escalation battle so making your character superpowerful is counterproductive.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres View Post
    Most DMs will murder you the instant you say those two words together in the same sentance.
    The rest will let you murder yourself.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ocato View Post
    Let me clarify. You're playing a new campaign. Pretty much if it's WotC it's allowed. Your class choices are barbarian or fighter, which do you think is better/more potentially potent and why.
    Depends so much on what stats I have, what the other PCs are, what level the campaign will go to.

    Non-combat Barbarian all the way. The Fighter simply sucks. Minimum skill points, limited class skills, no non-combat abilities.
    The Barbarian has moderate skill points, a few decent class skills (Listen) and Trapsense is of some use.

    Pointman Barbarian again. Better hps against the surprise strike, as well as Uncanny dodge stops the "surprise sneal attack, you're dead" attack. Listen isn't ussually as good as spot, but it's better than nothing. The Fighter essentailly has nothing.

    Big Monster combat Slight edge to the Barbarian. The higher damage output combined with there been less feat chains that help Big Monster killing means they can catch up to the Fighter. The Fighter can tank to the point that even big monsters have to work to hit, and the big monsters can't afford to Power Attack.

    Medium and smaller combat The Fighter wins. Huge amount of battlefield control stuff out there which the Fighter can afford to pickup. The Barbarian simply doesn't have the feats. He can manage 1 control chain by 20th level but doing so will limit his other options.

    Ease of design Barbarian wins. Aside from your feat every 3 levels and skill points there is no decisions to make.

    Stephen

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    The rest will let you murder yourself.
    No the rest will let you murder your party. [Insert cheese about willfully failing saves against people you would otherwise attack making attacking party obsolete.]

    I say Barbarian. And since it isn't a Variant at all but rather an "Alternative class feature" grab Spirit Lion Totem. Pounce for the Win, makes Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper That much better.

    Feats before level 9 (Flaws).

    And also, Frenzied Berserker=/=Broken.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelik View Post
    No the rest will let you murder your party. [Insert cheese about willfully failing saves against people you would otherwise attack making attacking party obsolete.]

    I say Barbarian. And since it isn't a Variant at all but rather an "Alternative class feature" grab Spirit Lion Totem. Pounce for the Win, makes Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper That much better.

    Feats before level 9 (Flaws).

    And also, Frenzied Berserker=/=Broken.
    Maybe its unfortunate they put a crappy "drawback" on a decent PrC. That doesn't mean failing saves is cheese. It just means its a good option. Others include making sure the wizard prepared Grease.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Thinker View Post
    Maybe its unfortunate they put a crappy "drawback" on a decent PrC. That doesn't mean failing saves is cheese. It just means its a good option. Others include making sure the wizard prepared Grease.
    Wizard preparing Grease=Good.

    Person who wants to kill Wizard voluntarily falling over so that he doesn't hurt Wizard=Stupid Cheese.

    He can fail his save anyway. A good Wizard should have plenty of spells that can incapacitate him with a very good chance of success (IE failure on a 15 or maybe more.) This means a Frenzied Berserker isn't hard to take down after the fight. But every time someone brings up choosing to fail a save against a Wizard casting at you who you consider hostile...well my gut doesn't like talk like that.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    I'm sure your partymates will have so much fun impotently dodging the godlike abominations the DM is now chucking at you like they were going out of fashion. I'm sure they will enjoy dodging your crazy ass as you try to eat them every other battle. And I'm sure everyone is going to really love you for showboating and stealing their glory. Every. Single. Battle.

    The Frenzied Berserker makes everyone feel like a bard or a samurai.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres View Post
    I'm sure your partymates will have so much fun impotently dodging the godlike abominations the DM is now chucking at you like they were going out of fashion. I'm sure they will enjoy dodging your crazy ass as you try to eat them every other battle. And I'm sure everyone is going to really love you for showboating and stealing their glory. Every. Single. Battle.

    The Frenzied Berserker makes everyone feel like a bard or a samurai.
    Its really not that powerful. Yay it can one shot most level-appropriate BBEGs if they're stupid enough to give him the opportunity.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    The Fighter is a better combat build (although it should be noted they gain a lot from 1 level of Barb - Rage, if it doesn't cause xp penalties).
    For that matter, it doesn't really hurt much to take equal amounts of fighter and barbarian (or fighter/barb/ranger, or fighter/paladin, or...), since the BAB stacks. And anyone can do that without xp penalties.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    I've played pure barbarians, but never a pure fighter.

    Fighter's good for dips, barbarian's better in the long haul.

    A barbarian if it goes out of core, can also snag the feat 'Extend Rage' which gives +5 rounds...as most barbarians put con as one of the top three, that's extending rages to ten rounds or so. That's most fights.

    Also, going out of core, you can pick up 'Whirling Frenzy' varient rage, and 'Lion-Totem' from Complete Champion to get pounce.

    Level 1 barbarian in one game delt > 40 damage in one round. Level 1 people. Str 18 and greataxe. No crits.

    Also...the flavor's more fun, the play is more fun, you get some nifty stand-out abilities, and can work it in from almost any walk of life.

    Fighters? How many do you know who's backstory does not include A) An army, B) An academy, or C) Some hideously expensive personal trainer.

    It's good for a dip, but barb's better.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres View Post
    The Frenzied Berserker makes everyone feel like a bard or a samurai.
    Hey, don't slam the Bard. Bards are plenty powerful themselves. A well-built Bard can outclass a well-built FB.


    On topic now - it all depends on the splatbooks available (whether due to DM allowing access, or just plain existing); Barbarians had it better for a long while, then a few books came out powering up Fighters to at least on par with Barbarians. Then the Pounce variant came out - bringing the edge squarely back to the Barbarian.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    Also...the flavor's more fun, the play is more fun, you get some nifty stand-out abilities, and can work it in from almost any walk of life.
    Um... how exactly can you get a barbarian from all walks of life. I mean, the background is written right there in the class name.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    Level 1 barbarian in one game delt > 40 damage in one round. Level 1 people. Str 18 and greataxe. No crits.
    How without crits? Was he within WBL?

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Um... how exactly can you get a barbarian from all walks of life. I mean, the background is written right there in the class name.
    By changing the fluff but making sure that the fluff still fits the mechanics. (And spending two skill points on literacy.)

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    In a straight up fight, if the Fighter draws it out long enough using tactics and defensive fighting to outlast the Rage of the Barbarian then the Fighter WINS.

    Keep in mind that a Barbarian is only a tiny fraction less battle competetant than the Fighter and is a much better general adventurer.
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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Machete View Post
    In a straight up fight, if the Fighter draws it out long enough using tactics and defensive fighting to outlast the Rage of the Barbarian then the Fighter WINS.

    Keep in mind that a Barbarian is only a tiny fraction less battle competetant than the Fighter and is a much better general adventurer.
    Defensive Fighting? Useless. Tactics? Useless against a guy who only needs to charge you once, and probably has greater movement speed. I'm not claiming a fighter couldn't win, depending on the build. Just that those aren't the ways he could do it.

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    Default Re: Barbarian vs fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    I've played pure barbarians, but never a pure fighter.
    Never done either under 3.x.
    Closest was a Orc Barb 1/Fighter 8 before I prestige classed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    Also...the flavor's more fun, the play is more fun, you get some nifty stand-out abilities, and can work it in from almost any walk of life.
    I've never had a problem with either Fighters or Barbs for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    Fighters? How many do you know who's backstory does not include A) An army, B) An academy, or C) Some hideously expensive personal trainer.
    The previous mentioned Fighter example didn't include any of the above in his backstory. In general my Fighters get their training from experiance and personal dedication to their art.

    Stephen

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