PATHFINDER: Oracle Curse Help?

[Xarael]

I'm trying to design a curse for Oracles. The level 1 benefit is that they will use Wisdom for all class features, including spell casting, instead of charisma. But I am at a total loss for what to have the penalty be, or the benefits at higher levels. Anyone have any ideas? :D

[ChaoticHarmony]

How about you call it Logical. Your Oracle is overly logical, to the point of denying that higher powers beyond the one they serve even exist, instead relying on their intelligence and common sense to explain most things. They gain your wisdom checks but are unable to receive divine bonuses. At 5th level they gain a +1 bonus to both intelligence and wisdom and at lvl 10 they can attempt to remove divine bonuses from others as a spell like ability

[rferries]

Curse of Cassandra

Like the tragic princess of legend, you possess the gift of prophecy but are doomed to be disbelieved by those you try to warn.

Benefit
Use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for all Oracle class features.

At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, add a divination spell of your choice from any class spell list to your Oracle class spell list (if the spell appears at different levels on multiple spell lists, use the lowest level as its Oracle spell level).

Penalty
Add your Wisdom modifier plus one-half your Oracle class level as a penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks. Creatures gain a +4 bonus on saves against your charm spells and effects.

[ChaoticHarmony]

Curse of Cassandra

Like the tragic princess of legend, you possess the gift of prophecy but are doomed to be disbelieved by those you try to warn.

Benefit
Use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for all Oracle class features.

At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, add a divination spell of your choice from any class spell list to your Oracle class spell list (if the spell appears at different levels on multiple spell lists, use the lowest level as its Oracle spell level).

Penalty
Add your Wisdom modifier plus one-half your Oracle class level as a penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks. Creatures gain a +4 bonus on saves against your charm spells and effects.

Nevermind what I said, this guy is brilliant

[rferries]

Nevermind what I said, this guy is brilliant

Ha not at all - your bonuses are much more imaginative than mine (plus Oracles probably get all divination spells anyways).

[ChaoticHarmony]

Ha not at all - your bonuses are much more imaginative than mine (plus Oracles probably get all divination spells anyways).

Why thank you, though yours are presented in a much more professional way. Also, I love the reference to Cassandra, that is a brilliant curse for an oracle

[Xarael]

Curse of Cassandra

Like the tragic princess of legend, you possess the gift of prophecy but are doomed to be disbelieved by those you try to warn.

Benefit
Use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for all Oracle class features.

At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, add a divination spell of your choice from any class spell list to your Oracle class spell list (if the spell appears at different levels on multiple spell lists, use the lowest level as its Oracle spell level).

Penalty
Add your Wisdom modifier plus one-half your Oracle class level as a penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks. Creatures gain a +4 bonus on saves against your charm spells and effects.

I agree that this is a very cool idea, and that I really like your flair. I would say, however, that the penalty seems disproportionate to other Oracle penalties, and the benefit might be a little weaker than similar curse benefits?

[rferries]

I agree that this is a very cool idea, and that I really like your flair. I would say, however, that the penalty seems disproportionate to other Oracle penalties, and the benefit might be a little weaker than similar curse benefits?

The penalty could be set at just your Wis modifier, and the benefits could be taken from ChaoticHarmony's idea (in fact Cassandra was cursed by Apollo and so had good reason to despise gods, so the part about stripping away divine buffs fits too). Alternatively, the ability to use augury as a supernatural ability with better chances of success or somesuch? Or to contact other plane, using Wis instead of Int?

[Sithrak]

I'm trying to design a curse for Oracles. The level 1 benefit is that they will use Wisdom for all class features, including spell casting, instead of charisma. But I am at a total loss for what to have the penalty be, or the benefits at higher levels. Anyone have any ideas? :D

The most straightforward might be "you use Wisdom for all class features, including spell casting, but you use Charisma for your Will save. However, I imagine that would annoy anyone who thinks the whole point of taking a curse that makes you Wisdom based is to dump Charisma (and to have a killer Will save).

Another possibility would be to adapt the 3rd party Aged curse, which lacks a decent 1st level benefit:

Spoiler: Original version for comparison

Show

Aged

You became an oracle late in life, or perhaps you aged and grew wise at an unnatural rate.

EFFECT

You are a venerable member of your race. However, your physical abilities are affected as though you were old, rather than venerable.

At 5th level, your physical abilities are affected as though you were middle-aged, rather than old.

At 10th level, you are immune to magical and non-magical disease.

At 15th level, you will never die of old age and you are immune to death effects.

Aged (or maybe Wizened)

You became an oracle late in life, or perhaps you aged and grew wise at an unnatural rate.

EFFECT

Your take penalties to your physical ability scores as though you were old, but you use your Wisdom score in place of your Charisma score for all Oracle class features (including spellcasting).

At 5th level, your physical abilities are affected as though you were middle-aged, rather than old.

At 10th level, you are immune to magical and non-magical disease.

At 15th level, you will never die of old age and you are immune to death effects.

If you don't like that, you could take inspiration from the ancients:

Stoic

You are bound by a code of truth and self-discipline, which has made your mind strong but has alienated you from others.

EFFECT

You cannot cast spells with the emotion descriptor. In addition, any attempt to intimidate or deceive others (including lies, bluffs, half-truths, exaggerations, and even white lies) leaves you nauseated for 24 hours. However, you you use your Wisdom score in place of your Charisma score for all Oracle class features (including spellcasting).

At 5th level, you become immune to fear.

At 10th level, you gain a +4 bonus on saves against enchantment spells and effects. Attempting to deceive others now only leaves you sickened for 24 hours.

At 15th level, you become Immune to emotion-based spells and effects.

I also came up with this one:

Austere

You have spent your life pursuing wisdom at the expense of all else.

EFFECT

You do not add any ability score modifiers when making a skill check other than your Wisdom modifier, but you use your Wisdom score in place of your Charisma score for all Oracle class features (including spellcasting).

At 5th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to all Knowledge checks.

At 10th level, you pick three skills. For each skill, you can choose either to make it a class skills or to add your Wisdom modifier on all checks for that skill.

At 15th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to all skills in which you are trained.

Even if you don't like any of these, maybe they will give you some ideas for crafting your own curse.

Curse of Cassandra

Like the tragic princess of legend, you possess the gift of prophecy but are doomed to be disbelieved by those you try to warn.

Benefit
Use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for all Oracle class features.

At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, add a divination spell of your choice from any class spell list to your Oracle class spell list (if the spell appears at different levels on multiple spell lists, use the lowest level as its Oracle spell level).

Penalty
Add your Wisdom modifier plus one-half your Oracle class level as a penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks. Creatures gain a +4 bonus on saves against your charm spells and effects.

The worry I have with this is that the benefit already pushes the Oracle away from pumping Charisma, meaning they were never going to be a face or focus on using charm spells in the first place. Also, the Oracle only has six charm spells on its spell list. None of them are great, only two of them are core, and two more have deity requirements (which can be tricky with an Oracle since the deity they worship need not be the same as the one that empowers them).

So while the penalties are big, they are also very likely to be irrelevant to anyone who wasn't planning to take a specific mystery or archetype that gave expanded access to charm spells (which no one taking this curse would do). Your curse would be great if the Oracle received a bonus on the DC or CL of divination spells they cast instead of becoming Wisdom based. But of course, that would put us back at square one as far as the OP's question is concerned.

(I really like your general idea here, though, and I'm thinking about a variation in which the Oracle loses access to all enchantment spells instead of just getting a penalty on charm spells and gains a scaling bonus on divination spells instead of becoming Wisdom based.)

[Xarael]

a lot of great stuff

Wow, thank you a lot. If I don't Just use one of these outright, I definitely think I've got some good ideas for how to sculpt one myself.

I usually am really good at coming up with my own stuff, but I was just drawing a blank for this one, for some reasons.

[rferries]

The worry I have with this is that the benefit already pushes the Oracle away from pumping Charisma, meaning they were never going to be a face or focus on using charm spells in the first place. Also, the Oracle only has six charm spells on its spell list. None of them are great, only two of them are core, and two more have deity requirements (which can be tricky with an Oracle since the deity they worship need not be the same as the one that empowers them).

So while the penalties are big, they are also very likely to be irrelevant to anyone who wasn't planning to take a specific mystery or archetype that gave expanded access to charm spells (which no one taking this curse would do). Your curse would be great if the Oracle received a bonus on the DC or CL of divination spells they cast instead of becoming Wisdom based. But of course, that would put us back at square one as far as the OP's question is concerned.

(I really like your general idea here, though, and I'm thinking about a variation in which the Oracle loses access to all enchantment spells instead of just getting a penalty on charm spells and gains a scaling bonus on divination spells instead of becoming Wisdom based.)

Yes it's tricky, but then again I think most Oracles work around their curses anyways. You're very right about charm spells on the Oracle list, so I'd rewrite the penalty to:

"Add your Wisdom modifier as a penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks and the save DCs of your enchantment spells and effects."

As for benefits... simply gaining some (or all) divination spells as spells known, without them counting towards spells known? Promotes the non-social, divination-focused archetype, which isn't particularly overpowered IMHO.

[Sithrak]

Yes it's tricky, but then again I think most Oracles work around their curses anyways.

Coming back just to say that this is a very good point. Also, several existing curses really are just elaborate ways of closing off one role and encouraging the character to emphasize another. So I think you're right after all about your curse being balanced.