One thing I want for 4e: Constructs

[Macrovore]

This has crossed my mind a lot ever since I started playing DnD (in 3.5), and has recently resurfaced: I'd like Wizards to make me a completely modular way to build constructs.

No simple "iron golems" or "shield guardians." I want it to be modular.
For example, you pick a size and general shape, say Large Humanoid. Based on the size, shape, it has certain ability scores, minimum hit dice, natural armor, and a base cost. Then, you can add any other stuff, like more HD, better attacks, or weapon proficiency, or better armor, better intelligence and senses, or special attacks like breath weapons or spike shooters or laser eyes, or even space to sit in it and pilot it like a mecha. You should also be able to make a base material, like clay, mud, iron, or stone. All of these extra things cost certain amounts, so you could have complete control over how much your construct costs, and what abilities it has.

What do you think about this idea?

[Indon]

If they don't put it in, it's a damned good idea for a homebrew rule.

[horseboy]

I'd vote it a neat idea.

[Macrovore]

oh, yeah. The only problem would be pricing everything. 4e wealth will likely be different from 3e wealth, so I may like to wait until 4e comes out before we actually start pricing stuff, but it's good to brainstorm.

[Macrovore]

definitely add some ideas, though.

[Nero24200]

Theres already somthing like that in the monster manual 2, it even has other entries for other creature types, such as designing your own outsider or fey etc

[Macrovore]

yes, but those are loose guidelines for DMs. What I want is modular rules (not just guidelines) and ideas for players (DMs are also encouraged to adjudicate, and make their own for players to fight, but they can ignore the pricing) to make their own constructs that won't unbalance the game or have odd, unwanted abilities (why would you make a breath weapon for a perfectly good iron golem. it's better at just hitting things).

[Ekeralos]

Might I suggest something along the lines of an Astral Construct. Of course many of the abilities would be changed, but the general principal remains the same. The spell of course relies on the amount of power points spent (and it starts offas a 1st level ability), but it could easily be modeled to use gp instead, though I don't know hw exactly 4E will even treat monsters..I beleive there was mention of a big discrepancy between the two. If only to brainstorm ideas, here's a link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/mo...lConstruct.htm

[Macrovore]

Something like that, yeah. I'd like there to be a difference not just in the level or HD, but also a tangible difference in the body shape (four-legged, snake-like, humanoid, tauric, etc.), material (iron, adamantine, stone, flesh), and size (Medium, Gargantuan, Fine), with some extra things added on (like wings, swarms, etc.)

Basically, what I'm interested in a game is modular gaming, with the crunch almost completely divorced from flavor (but most of that's a discussion for another thread). If you have a Large winged quadraped, it could be a griffon, or a unicorn, or a dragon for all I care. Basically, you can make your construct look however the hell you want it to, but the mechanics should be fairly strict as to what you can do and what it costs you.

[Attilargh]

Well, there were rules for custom droids in Star Wars Saga, so it is not completely out of the question. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though.


By the way, if you haven't yet taken a look at Big Eyes, Small Mouth (or BESM for short), I recommend you do so as soon as humanly possible. I think it's got just what you're looking for.

[Macrovore]

Well, just 'cause it's in Saga, doesn't mean it's in 4e. Also, droids are a heck of a lot more common in SW than in most DnD games (with Eberron games, and my homebrew games being exceptions).

and I didn't know BESM had something like that. It's pretty much Anime d20, though, isn't it? I'll have to take a look at it, despite it's anime-ness, if only for the construct systems.

[Gralamin]

Well, just 'cause it's in Saga, doesn't mean it's in 4e. Also, droids are a heck of a lot more common in SW than in most DnD games (with Eberron games, and my homebrew games being exceptions).

and I didn't know BESM had something like that. It's pretty much Anime d20, though, isn't it? I'll have to take a look at it, despite it's anime-ness, if only for the construct systems.

BESM 3rd edition (Which is not d20) allows you to make a construct type character, and to add abilities with character points.

[D Knight]

i agree with you a full 100%. constructs should not just be one size, and one purpose. they shold meet the needs of the creator at that time for ex: a mage needs to look in to a room with out going in. he could have a rat construct that can look for him and not expose himself to harm and fig out a plan of attack to clear the room of all hostals be for they could react. i do hope that wizards does rework constructs in this way it would be cool

[ArmorArmadillo]

The problem here is that, each time you make an official "create your own..." there enters another hole through which exploitation can pour.

I like the idea, but the "Build your Own" should be a system of variations on static things, not an all-encompassing rule system.

[BCOVertigo]

The problem here is that, each time you make an official "create your own..." there enters another hole through which exploitation can pour.

I like the idea, but the "Build your Own" should be a system of variations on static things, not an all-encompassing rule system.

Is that really a healthy attitude, considering the whole game is based around designing a character and roleplaying as it? Squashing an idea for an awesome and flexible system like this just because it has the potential to create something overpowered without proper playtesting makes about as much sense as having everyone roll the same character. (To me at least.)

....Can we get someone started on this BEFORE 4e comes out? I'm officially interested.

[Macrovore]

Well, there'd be four modifiable parts to creating a construct: Size, Body Type, Material, and Upgrades (both defensive and offensive)

Here are some examples, few of which are statted or, much less, priced:

Size: of course, they are the normal sizes:
-Fine
-Diminuative
-Tiny
-Small
-Medium
-Large
-Huge
-Gargantuan
-Colossal

Body Type: I don't know of a lot, but here's a few:
-Humanoid (2 arms, 2 legs, standing upright)
-Quadraped (4 legs, standing on all of them)
-Snakelike (self-explanatory)
-Tauric quadroped (4 legs, secondary torso with two arms)
-Tauric snakelike (snake body, secondary torso with two arms)

Materials: self-explanatory: what most of the construct is made of. All of these materials should have different strengths, defenses, and weaknesses.
-Adamantine
-Mithral
-Bronze
-Iron
-Silver
-Cold Iron
-Wood
-Flesh
-Bone
-Clay
-Mud
-Stone

Upgrades: there are defensive (includes utility buffs) and offensive upgrades. This will probably be the biggest category.
offensive:
-Laser Eyes
-Natural Weapons
-Enhanced attacks
-Extra limbs
-Elemental attacks
-Breath Weapons
-Spike launchers
-Crossbow mounts
-Integrated Weapons (sword-arms, flail-elbows, and what-not)
-Cockpit

defensive:
-Augmented Armor
-Enhanced Speed
-Cloaking Device
-Increased HD
-Energy Resistance
-Enhanced Senses
-Tactical Sentience (INT 4)
-Sentience (INT 3d6)

These are just ideas. Feel encouraged to submit your own, or critique these. or something.

[TheOOB]

One of the biggest problems with this is book space. Making an iron golem is easy, you pay the price, and gain the creature listed in the entry, simple, making a modular creature requires a lot of tables, variables, rules text, and so on that they likely won't have room for in the already packed core rulebooks. I think modular constructs are a great idea, look at XPH's astral constructs, then imagine making an even more on depth life-long companion, it's a cool idea. I just see it as something for a supplement if they make it at all.

[Macrovore]

What I was thinking is we make a new book, like the Draconomicon (or LoM, or LiM), but for constructs, which include these rules. We should try to model the rules after what the constructs in core were created as, so there aren't any problems when you start to use the Mechanomicon (working title:).

Or, we can do it here (or at least, start it here) for free and public. That works, too.

[AtomicKitKat]

The Constructicon!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

The Big Book of Construct Creation?

[Attilargh]

I recommend not using either "-nomicon" or "Liber" in the book name, if only because it'll get mixed up with Privateer Press's Monsternomicon and Liber Mechanika.

Well, just 'cause it's in Saga, doesn't mean it's in 4e. Also, droids are a heck of a lot more common in SW than in most DnD games (with Eberron games, and my homebrew games being exceptions)..

True, and that's why I'm not expecting it to be the first thing released. But now that they have done one DIY-kit for droids, it is possible they'll do another for constructs.

And as Gralamin noted, the BESM edition I was talking about was the Third, which is not a D20 system. The character creation is extremely flexible, so one can make pretty much whatever one wants with it. (For example, I've been thinking of using it to run a Babylon 5-esque sci-fi game. Anime look optional.)

[Zeal]

Actually, if you're looking for something along those lines, Mongoose Publishing has a book out along with rules for modular construct...uh..construction (and design). The rules aren't perfect (and they're 3rd Edition) but they're a good start.

The book can be found here: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/d2...26&qsSeries=15

[Macrovore]

Huh. That looks like an interesting book. But since I don't have a credit card or $14, let's make our own system!

[Zim]

I know if not exactly what you're looking for, but Complete Arcane has rules for creating effigy creatures. Using these constuct creation rules, you could build an effigy creature and enhance its body slots like magic items (just like a warforged).

[Were-Sandwich]

This would be useful to me, as the psi-heavy world I'm building includes a LOT of psi-powered contructs. A lot.

[factotum]

You could also have disadvantages that make it cost less but introduce flaws--the robot building system in Paranoia worked like that. (One especially good one was "previous occupation", where the robot's brain had previously been used in an entirely different type of robot and the memories would resurface at the worst moments--it was quite funny to see a cleaning robot trundling around screaming it was a war robot and would kill you all. Of course, this being Paranoia, it generally WOULD find a way to kill you all... )

[Macrovore]

yeah, but introducing a flaw system tends to create easy loopholes and low-impact munchkin flaws.

and Zim, the system will be similar, but it won't just be a template. It'd be a completely new system, though you could easily create anything you can make an effigy of almost as easily.

[DraPrime]

I sense an article on the homebrew forums coming... Anyway, I would love it. There' not too many types of constructs either so it's a good idea.

[Macrovore]

and here's the homebrew thread:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...89#post3137789

[lumberofdabeast]

Naruto d20 has something like this for puppet creation. That might make a nice starting point.

[Anxe]

Well it's a custom construction so the mage who makes it is clearly going to have to spend more on it. I've always assumed that the reason all these constructs are the only ones you can build now is because they are the best of their type. A complete free system for making them might work better though. Kind like the intelligent item system.