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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Post Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Hello. I am going to be running a campaign set in a Spanish-Inquisition-like setting, using a non-vancian rules-set. One of the major things I want to emulate in the setting is the creation of the Golem of Prague. Does anyone have an idea of how one could create a Golem without recouse to Vancian spellcasting? In particular, I am interested as to if anyone has developed a feat-tree of some sort that would allow for the creation of a Golem without using spells, or at least an idea of how to go about doing so.
    Any help would be appreciated.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcleod117 View Post
    Hello. I am going to be running a campaign set in a Spanish-Inquisition-like setting, using a non-vancian rules-set. One of the major things I want to emulate in the setting is the creation of the Golem of Prague. Does anyone have an idea of how one could create a Golem without recouse to Vancian spellcasting? In particular, I am interested as to if anyone has developed a feat-tree of some sort that would allow for the creation of a Golem without using spells, or at least an idea of how to go about doing so.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    If there's only going to be one golem, you could have a specific feat (similar to Improved Familiar or Leadership), with a power level approximating that of an animal companion/cohort/special mount/familiar etc.

    Golem Cohort
    You are served by a mighty golem, but must keep the creature on a tight leash lest it wreak terrible and uncontrolled havoc.

    Prerequisites
    Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Craft Wondrous Item, caster level 12th, Knowledge (religion) 15 ranks.

    Benefits
    You gain a clay golem as a loyal minion. It functions exactly as a standard clay golem, save that it has a cumulative 1% chance per encounter (rather than per round of combat) of going berserk. You may regain control over a berserk golem by speaking ancient religious phrases to it (requiring a DC 30 Knowledge (religion) check), which resets the chance back to 0%.

    The golem gains 4 bonus construct Hit Dice at 13th level and every level thereafter. If the golem has at least 19 Hit Dice its size increases to Huge.
    Last edited by rferries; 2018-04-17 at 01:25 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    If there's only going to be one golem, you could have a specific feat (similar to Improved Familiar or Leadership), with a power level approximating that of an animal companion/cohort/special mount/familiar etc.

    Golem Cohort
    You are served by a mighty golem, but must keep the creature on a tight leash lest it wreak terrible and uncontrolled havoc.

    Prerequisites
    Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Craft Wondrous Item, caster level 12th, Knowledge (religion) 15 ranks.

    Benefits
    You gain a clay golem as a loyal minion. It functions exactly as a standard clay golem, save that it has a cumulative 1% chance per encounter (rather than per round of combat) of going berserk. You may regain control over a berserk golem by speaking ancient religious phrases to it (requiring a DC 30 Knowledge (religion) check), which resets the chance back to 0%.

    The golem gains 4 bonus construct Hit Dice at 13th level and every level thereafter. If the golem has at least 19 Hit Dice its size increases to Huge.
    Perfect! Thanks man.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    No worries! That might actually be an underpowered feat, given the prerequisites. Will you be homebrewing the golem? You could possibly get away with a simpler feat if you used a homebrew golem without magic immunity etc.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    No worries! That might actually be an underpowered feat, given the prerequisites. Will you be homebrewing the golem? You could possibly get away with a simpler feat if you used a homebrew golem without magic immunity etc.
    Something like that. I might loosen up the restrictions in some areas, while tightening them up in others.
    I think I may trade out the Knowledge (religion) check with a piety check, a la Mythic Vistas Testament. That way a prospective owner of a Golem could significantly reduce the danger of the Golem becoming an uncontrollable nuicance by sticking to a strict code of conduct.
    it's late, though. i'll think about this in the morning.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    If there's only going to be one golem, you could have a specific feat (similar to Improved Familiar or Leadership), with a power level approximating that of an animal companion/cohort/special mount/familiar etc.

    Golem Cohort
    You are served by a mighty golem, but must keep the creature on a tight leash lest it wreak terrible and uncontrolled havoc.

    Prerequisites
    Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Craft Wondrous Item, caster level 12th, Knowledge (religion) 15 ranks.

    Benefits
    You gain a clay golem as a loyal minion. It functions exactly as a standard clay golem, save that it has a cumulative 1% chance per encounter (rather than per round of combat) of going berserk. You may regain control over a berserk golem by speaking ancient religious phrases to it (requiring a DC 30 Knowledge (religion) check), which resets the chance back to 0%.

    The golem gains 4 bonus construct Hit Dice at 13th level and every level thereafter. If the golem has at least 19 Hit Dice its size increases to Huge.
    I would make it so you can take the feat multiple times. You unlock a better golem type for additional ones, stone then iron. If one is destroyed you recreate it in 2-4 weeks. Gives a legitimate advantage for a legitimate cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I would make it so you can take the feat multiple times. You unlock a better golem type for additional ones, stone then iron. If one is destroyed you recreate it in 2-4 weeks. Gives a legitimate advantage for a legitimate cost.
    Yes I considered that, but since flesh golems are the weakest they should be the starting point, whereas OP definitely wanted a clay-themed one to match his lore. Easy to rewrite the feat though.

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    I would honestly just make it a feat tied to "Profession: Ceramist". The default clay golem should go haywire after, say 30 days of use (the percent rule is an incredible hassle). This can either be avoided by recrafting it (dispelling its magic and remaking its form).

    So either you make the sacred clay used for its creation reusable. Or you cost it more like an enduring 1-use item.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    No worries! That might actually be an underpowered feat, given the prerequisites. Will you be homebrewing the golem? You could possibly get away with a simpler feat if you used a homebrew golem without magic immunity etc.
    I think I fixed the underpowered aspect.

    Golem Cohort
    You are served by a mighty golem, but must keep the creature on a tight leash lest it wreak terrible and uncontrolled havoc.
    Prerequisites
    Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Craft Wondrous Item, Dreamer, character level 12th, Knowledge (religion) 15 ranks, piety score 15 or more, must be a member of the [insert here] faith.
    Benefits
    You gain a*clay golem*as a loyal minion. You must still pay the gp cost and experience for creating a Golem, but may ignore the Caster level and spellcasting requirements. It functions exactly as a standard clay golem, save that it has a cumulative 1% chance per encounter (rather than per round of combat) of going berserk. You may regain control over a berserk golem by speaking ancient religious phrases to it (requiring a DC 25 Knowledge (religion) or Piety check), which resets the chance back to 0%.
    The golem gains 4 bonus construct Hit Dice at 13th level and every level thereafter. If the golem has at least 19 Hit Dice its size increases to Huge.
    If the Golem is destroyed, you may rebuild a new one so long as you are capable of reaching the paper containing the Sacred Name from itís mouth. It will have the same hit dice as the original Golem, but a 19 HD or greater Golem will need to remain active for a full week before increasing to Huge size.
    Special: [insert here] of the Scholar and Natural Magician character classes may take this feat in place of an Alchemy or Astrology bonus feat.

    As an aside, if anyone knows of feats with a similar theme and/or flavor to this one, please tell me.
    Last edited by petermcleod117; 2018-04-17 at 01:27 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcleod117 View Post
    I think I fixed the underpowered aspect.

    Golem Cohort
    You are served by a mighty golem, but must keep the creature on a tight leash lest it wreak terrible and uncontrolled havoc.
    Prerequisites
    Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Craft Wondrous Item, Dreamer, character level 12th, Knowledge (religion) 15 ranks, piety score 15 or more, must be a member of the [insert here] faith.
    Benefits
    You gain a*clay golem*as a loyal minion. You must still pay the gp cost and experience for creating a Golem, but may ignore the Caster level and spellcasting requirements. It functions exactly as a standard clay golem, save that it has a cumulative 1% chance per encounter (rather than per round of combat) of going berserk. You may regain control over a berserk golem by speaking ancient religious phrases to it (requiring a DC 25 Knowledge (religion) or Piety check), which resets the chance back to 0%.
    The golem gains 4 bonus construct Hit Dice at 13th level and every level thereafter. If the golem has at least 19 Hit Dice its size increases to Huge.
    If the Golem is destroyed, you may rebuild a new one so long as you are capable of reaching the paper containing the Sacred Name from itís mouth. It will have the same hit dice as the original Golem, but a 19 HD or greater Golem will need to remain active for a full week before increasing to Huge size.
    Special: [insert here] of the Scholar and Natural Magician character classes may take this feat in place of an Alchemy or Astrology bonus feat.

    As an aside, if anyone knows of feats with a similar theme and/or flavor to this one, please tell me.
    Ouch. This is really detrimental to the player who uses it. You need to spend 100% of the resources to make the golem (skills, feats, etc), plus an additional feat, and you can only have one? It is decidedly worse then normal golem crafting.

    I would go
    Golem Cohort

    Requirement: craft (X), where X is the relevant crafting skill for the type of golem you want.

    Benefit: Gain one Golem whose HD are no higher then your own as if you had crafted it normally. When you gain a HD you may advance your golem to the same HD, changing its size as noted in the golems advancement column.

    If your golem companion is destroyed you may recraft it or change the golem to another type you qualify for after one week of rest, during which you prepare rituals and craft the body.

    You must still pay the cost for the ungents and body of the golem whenever one is made, but not the creation cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Ouch. This is really detrimental to the player who uses it. You need to spend 100% of the resources to make the golem (skills, feats, etc), plus an additional feat, and you can only have one? It is decidedly worse then normal golem crafting.

    I would go
    Golem Cohort

    Requirement: craft (X), where X is the relevant crafting skill for the type of golem you want.

    Benefit: Gain one Golem whose HD are no higher then your own as if you had crafted it normally. When you gain a HD you may advance your golem to the same HD, changing its size as noted in the golems advancement column.

    If your golem companion is destroyed you may recraft it or change the golem to another type you qualify for after one week of rest, during which you prepare rituals and craft the body.

    You must still pay the cost for the ungents and body of the golem whenever one is made, but not the creation cost.
    Agreed, but the reason I gave the golem 4 HD per level that the master gains is to keep the CR relatively the same as a Leadership cohort (construct HD are pretty bad, I used the +4 construct HD = +1 CR rule for advancing monsters).
    Last edited by rferries; 2018-04-18 at 08:09 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Agreed, but the reason I gave the golem 4 HD per level that the master gains is to keep the CR relatively the same as a Leadership cohort (construct HD are pretty bad, I used the +4 construct HD = +1 CR rule for advancing monsters).
    I'm cool with your feat in that regard, but the requirements were far too high and there wasn't a replacement clause.

    Maybe that part could be written:
    "You learn to collect and shape animus with unusual talent. Whenever you increase in level you may chose to remake your golem with four additonal hit dice, increasing its size to huge if it has 19 or more hit dice. If your golem has been destroyed before, you instead create a new one."
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Non-Vancian Golem Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I'm cool with your feat in that regard, but the requirements were far too high and there wasn't a replacement clause.

    Maybe that part could be written:
    "You learn to collect and shape animus with unusual talent. Whenever you increase in level you may chose to remake your golem with four additonal hit dice, increasing its size to huge if it has 19 or more hit dice. If your golem has been destroyed before, you instead create a new one."
    Sounds good! Or just handwave it as "the golem's animating force is tied to your own life-force; for each level you possess above 13th the creature gains 4 additional Hit Dice, increasing to Huge size at 19 Hit Dice."

    It might also be worth giving the creature an Intelligence score (including feats and skill points) too.
    Last edited by rferries; 2018-04-19 at 05:49 AM.

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