A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    annoyed OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    New comic is up.
    Rich Burlew


    A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2, the sixth set of monster miniatures for your tabletop game—now including digital tokens to use in your favorite virtual tabletop. Available from Gumroad!

    ~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Vaarsuvius and Blackwing, the comedy duo we needed.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Good plan so far. Very good plan. Wasn't expecting Chaos Hammer, since as far as we know (and as it seems in this comic,) V isn't Chaotic, so he was gonna take some damage from it.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Mmm... taste that rainbow.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    It took me a couple of readings to understand Haley's comment about getting their heads under. So focused on the D&D aspects of this strip that it took me a little while to think about other meanings of the word Limbo.

    Giant, your one off jokes make my day!


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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Ooooh, I like that hammer. Can we get more of the hammer? Can it be Hammertime©?
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    "Huh", "Curious" indeed.

    Great comic, made me laugh.

    ETA: oooh, slow is a nasty condition.

    GW
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2018-04-17 at 01:05 PM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Hah. The suspicion of using the giraffes to trigger the traps was correct. (And it makes sense-- I assume that being tall is a factor in their ability to set off the ceiling traps, though I could be wrong.)

    I didn't know what they'd do next (and I don't know what Chaos Hammer does, exactly) but using Vaarsuvius as bait and having absolutely nobody suspect it is pretty funny.

    Durkula's arrogance seems to be more and more evident-- he really just expected the Order to rush in? Did he just never ask Durkon for a memory of a time Roy came up with a good plan? (I'm thinking of his ambush in the pyramid, myself.)

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    V isn't Chaotic, so he was gonna take some damage from it.
    Less than, say, Roy would.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Oh no!

    Durkula's and Ponchula's date may be cancelled!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Less than, say, Roy would.
    Half, but has a much smaller HP pool to draw from. That said, do any of the magical defences help them with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Durkula's arrogance seems to be more and more evident-- he really just expected the Order to rush in? Did he just never ask Durkon for a memory of a time Roy came up with a good plan? (I'm thinking of his ambush in the pyramid, myself.)

    He doesn't know Hilgya is with them. All the tactics they're using right now are high level cleric spells, and he thought they only had the low level cleric. Without her, they wouldn't have known about the traps.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    "Bait the Rainbow! Taste the Rainbow. New Chaos-Flavored Skittles now available."

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I didn't know what they'd do next (and I don't know what Chaos Hammer does, exactly) but using Vaarsuvius as bait and having absolutely nobody suspect it is pretty funny.
    What's especially funny is that nobody suspects it despite Vaarsuvius and Blackwing not being able to Bluff worth a damn.

    Also, chaos hammer does this. 5d8/2 damage against Vaarsuvius and Blackwing (who are both Neutral) and probably to all the silent vampires, and 5d8 damage + 1d6 rounds of slow to at least the two vampires who talked.

    Durkula's arrogance seems to be more and more evident-- he really just expected the Order to rush in? Did he just never ask Durkon for a memory of a time Roy came up with a good plan? (I'm thinking of his ambush in the pyramid, myself.)
    Roy used Durkon as a lynchpin for that plan.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    "Your lives have been tragically cut short before you could be merchandised"!

    Aw, let's not sell the readership short on what they'll buy!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Yay! So cool! A well-thought out, well-coordinated attack! I do love meticulous planning!

    (But can it last.....?)
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    Good plan so far. Very good plan. Wasn't expecting Chaos Hammer, since as far as we know (and as it seems in this comic,) V isn't Chaotic, so he was gonna take some damage from it.
    I had to look up Chaos Hammer, but assuming Hilgya is above 10th level it does 5d8 damage (an average of 23), as well as a slow effect to lawful creatures, and only half that, without the slow, to neutral ones. And Vaarsuvius is likely to have a strong will save, too - so V may only have taken six or seven points of damage. Not a bad sacrifice against a group of lawful, low-level vampire spawn.

    I guess most adventurers aren't used to fighting lawful opponents, we players never think of such things.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    Good plan so far. Very good plan. Wasn't expecting Chaos Hammer, since as far as we know (and as it seems in this comic,) V isn't Chaotic, so he was gonna take some damage from it.
    And did, apparently.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Ponchola's comment had me laughing out loud (sorry, co-workers!)

    Thanks, Rich!
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    The Order of the Stick NOT rushing in and instead executing a well thought-out start of battle gambit and it ACTUALLY WORKS?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Half, but has a much smaller HP pool to draw from. That said, do any of the magical defences help them with it?

    GW
    Well, if they make a will save, its halved again.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Half, but has a much smaller HP pool to draw from. That said, do any of the magical defences help them with it?

    GW
    No, but 5d8/2 isn't actually that much (11 damage on average, 20 at most), and Vaarsuvius has tanked heftier spells before. Notably several meteor swarms from Xykon. She also survived an unholy blight from a goblin cleric which would have done the about same amount of damage - in the Dungeon of Dorukan and at a much lower level.

    Oh yeah, and chaos hammer allows a Will save, so halve the damage again if Vaarsuvius makes it. Which she probably would.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2018-04-17 at 01:21 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Half, but has a much smaller HP pool to draw from. That said, do any of the magical defences help them with it?

    GW
    Wisdom pump to help with the Will save, maybe?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    He doesn't know Hilgya is with them. All the tactics they're using right now are high level cleric spells, and he thought they only had the low level cleric. Without her, they wouldn't have known about the traps.
    Right, but that doesn't explain why his expectation for Roy is "charge in blindly" rather than "plan ahead." Sure, he couldn't have expected the Order to successfully scry on them, but his own plan also seems contingent on Roy taking the dumbest tactic possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Roy used Durkon as a lynchpin for that plan.
    Exactly! You'd think Durkula would have inquired into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    What's especially funny is that nobody suspects it despite Vaarsuvius and Blackwing not being able to Bluff worth a damn.

    Also, chaos hammer does this. 5d8/2 damage against Vaarsuvius and Blackwing (who are both Neutral) and probably to all the silent vampires, and 5d8 damage + 1d6 rounds of slow to at least the two vampires who talked.
    Gotcha, thanks. Does Stoneskin and/or whatever other protections Vaarsuvius would have on protect them from the effects?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wisdom pump to help with the Will save, maybe?
    Why bother? A Wizard of Vaarsuvius's level gets a +10 to Will saves from their hit dice alone. Hilgya's save DC is probably somewhere around 18-20.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Seems Greg keeps severely underestimating the Order. Also seems like none or few of the vampires are Chaotic (and at least one is Lawful).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wisdom pump to help with the Will save, maybe?
    Did Blackwing need to make a save, or is blackwing chaotic and thus immune to chaos hammer?
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    Rockphed said it well.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Exactly! You'd think Durkula would have inquired into that.
    The point is, Roy doesn't have Durkon to use as a lynchpin for this plan. That being the case, the vampire probably thought he had no available lynchpins for any plan.

    He would have been right, too, if not for the happenstance of the Order running across Hilgya. Vaarsuvius and Elan couldn't have scryed on the chamber, and couldn't have warded themselves against negative energy.

    Gotcha, thanks. Does Stoneskin and/or whatever other protections Vaarsuvius would have on protect them from the effects?
    No. But as stated above (and as can be seen from the comic, where Vaarsuvius looks nearly unhurt), the effects are negligible.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2018-04-17 at 01:21 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylian View Post
    Seems Greg keeps severely underestimating the Order. Also seems like none or few of the vampires are Chaotic (and at least one is Lawful).
    I count five lawful, one neutral. Going solely by the drooping brows, of course. Could be wrong.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1117 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    Did Blackwing need to make a save, or is blackwing chaotic and thus immune to chaos hammer?
    Blackwing is Neutral. But Blackwing uses Vaarsuvius's base +10 Will save, has a +2 Wisdom bonus, and has evasion (which shouldn't work on Will-targeting attacks, but w/e). He'll be fine.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2018-04-17 at 01:19 PM.

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