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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Warhammer 40,000 in the Playground


    This OP is currently full of placeholder answers. Check back in a week.

    I'm new to the hobby. Which army should I start?
    It really depends on what you want to play. And how your meta-game shapes up. Find out what everyone else is playing near you, and play anything not those armies for best results. Otherwise, if you're starting from scratch with no-one really to play with - or, you've got a friend who is also starting from scratch - buy a Start Collecting! box and your favourite Index.
    Or, if you're specifically into Primaris Marines or Death Guard, GW has conveniently set up a number of 'beginner boxes' to get you started.


    What's Dark Imperium?
    Dark Imperium contains a rulebook and a bunch of dice.

    Comments on Dark Imperium forces.

    How much does it cost?
    Placeholder Answer.

    Is WH40K expensive? Yes. I suppose it is. We all know it is. But, practically speaking, it's no more expensive than any other hobby.

    Okay, I've got everything. What next?
    Play some games. Playing some actual games, is a far, far better learning experience than anything you could glean from the internet. Although we really would appreciate some stories and how you're finding your army. Find out what works for you, find out what doesn't (just because the internet likes something, doesn't mean you will too). You, more than anyone know who your opponents are and what they're putting on the table. You are in the best position to find out what you need to bring to the table.

    However, if you're still stuck. Just ask.

    How many points do I need? What size board do I need?
    The recommended minimum is 750.
    However, in other meta-games, find out what the local tournament standard is. Most people in your area should be playing at that points level. While you're at it, here's How to write an army list.

    As for board size; a 4x4' table can accommodate up to 1000 Points with reasonable room left for movement. But, after that you should probably look at finding a 6x4' area. The floor is never a bad start.

    Comments on Power Rating.

    What's the difference between Power Rating and Points Cost?
    ...A lot.


    I did what you said and I still lost. What gives?
    First, this game is all about dice. Dice are random (most of the time anyway), sometimes you just get bad rolls all game and there's nothing you can really do about it. It's best to accept it, otherwise you're not going to have a very fun time.

    Sometimes your opponent can make a minor change in his list - like changing from Plasma Cannons to Lascannons. That can totally alter the flow of the game and what happens when they next play you.

    Sometimes the terrain placement is just bad (or the terrain itself is bad) and right from Deployment you can find yourself getting shot at and there's nothing you can do about it. Really, this can only stress how important terrain can be to how the game gets played.

    And, lastly, maybe you just 'did it wrong'? Maybe you used [X] to shoot [Y] when they should have been shooting [Z]. Maybe you Charged, when the better move could have been moving backwards and Rapid Firing instead? There are all sorts of ways you can be out-played. You didn't just lose because your opponents' Queens are overpowered.

    Terrain? You said this hobby was only as expensive as any other.
    Yes and no. Most of your 'starting' terrain can be household items. Books. Soda-cans. Small boxes. Whatever.

    If you look around the internet, you can also find a few tutorials on how to make some really decent-looking terrain. Made out of what you essentially would have otherwise thrown in the bin.

    Only GW Terrain actually costs you any significant money. Making your own should only cost a few dollars tops - and your time and effort.

    How much terrain do I need?
    Anywhere between 25-33% of the board should be covered by terrain. On a standard 6x4' table, you would want at least anywhere between 6-8' square of terrain. It seems like a lot. But if you divide that up to 7-12 pieces, it doesn't look like much. Or you could just put a 2x3' block in the centre of the board. Don't forget that not all Terrain is 'equal', and you will definitely want a few pieces of terrain that block Line of Sight.

    I don't like using Unique Characters, and I think Allies are dumb.
    Your opponents probably don't. Unique Characters are pretty powerful and there's no real reason that you shouldn't be using them if your opponents are. That's not to say that all Unique Characters are good - they aren't - and certainly don't get the impression that just because it's a Unique Character that you need to use it - you don't. But some of them are still good and they do make certain armies a lot better.

    However, Allies, on the other hand. Are often a required part of the game. Especially if you play Imperium, Chaos or Aeldari. Some armies just don't have the units required to fend off other units. Does this make the game unfair? Kind of. But, GW doesn't update their entire range at once (it's a big range), and so some units are always going to be better than others. But, allowing Allies is a big step to evening the playing field.

    So which Allies should I pick?
    Depends on your army, and what units you already have. Ask in the thread.

    I can't paint.
    Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

    But, on a more serious note, the only real reason that you need to paint is if you want to participate in tournaments. Well, that and painted models just look better - if you've practised, of course.

    Unfortunately, painting is a practical skill, not knowledge. The only person who can get you better at painting is you. Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

    Is there such a thing as a 'Bad' Codex?
    Not exactly. There are certainly bad, individual units. But, on the whole, every Faction is playable. However, you must remember that Allies are an intended part of the game - even if you, personally don't like them. If your Faction's entire army list is lacking in a certain area, you may have to consider whether or not it was intended to be that way, and you will have to consider whether or not to bring Allies into your army.

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    Previous Threads


    Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2018-07-22 at 07:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Last Time in The Eternal Darkness...

    • The new Beta Rules came out and completely cucked a whole bunch of players
    • Other players say that everything is fine, and there's no problem.
    • New FAQs says that trying to Melee against a unit in a multi-storey piece of terrain is going to make you sad
    • Cheesegear was going to start on a Daemons' review run.
    • Allies are an extremely necessary part of the game. Unfortunately, they are poorly implemented.
    • Narrative Play; Broken Homebrew Nonsense? Or Totally Fun? You decide!


    ...Welcome back to The Darkness.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2018-04-25 at 09:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Question from last thread that got drowned in other stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by LudDavenport View Post
    Hmm... so messing with weapon loads for ravenguard Vanguard Veterans. It seems Correct to always give the sargent TH+SS, because he has 3 attacks, and is going to be the last one standing. Generally correct to leave 1-2 without SS for more cheaply eating AP 0 hits. It seems like you shouldn't give the whole squad power weapons, because cost and ablative wounds. Also multching GEC with chain swords.

    Right now I am thinking for a x10 Ravenguard Vanguard Veterans Squad
    Spoiler: 234 points of melee
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    Jump Packs
    Sargent with Storm Shield and Thunderhammer
    4x veterans with Storm Shields and Power Swords
    3x Veterans with Storm Shields and Chain Swords
    2x Veterans with double Chain Swords

    Math hammer says, even with a chaplain backing them up thet aren't really eating russes(that is what TH death company is for), but should by ok against infantry? Idea is 2 units with their own chaplains ravensguarding in, with a unit of death company also on the board to do what is needed. DC chaplain to come in turn 2 when he can. All of this backed up by 4 units of scouts and a cheap IG brigade. IG brigade will hope 3 massive assault squads in the opponents DZ turn 1 can keep them from being shot to pieces.

    Also, current mix for Death Company
    Spoiler
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    Jump Packs(of course)
    4xThunder Hammers
    4xPower Sword+Bolt Gun
    7xChain Sword+Bolt gun

    Thunderhammers break things. Powerswords are cheap. Chainswords are cheaper. 22 boltgun shots might cut through some bubble wrap? Not great, but seems better then pistols. Has to wait for turn 2 chaplain most of the time I think? Might be worth cutting back a bit on the ablative chainswords, as the unit stands at 380 points. The three together should hopefully get to charge turn 1 and for the opponent to focus their shooting on either 3+/3++ -1 to hit.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Allies are an extremely necessary part of the game. Unfortunately, they are poorly implemented.
    Well yeah, when some factions can cherry pick from an half-dozen allies, and others can hardly ally at all, things are going to end screwed up.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Ringer list for this weekend's tournament. This'll only get played to fill bye rounds, so I'm not concerned about wrecking face (it'll count as a loss for me either way), but I don't want the players to be bored.
    Spoiler
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    Cadian Brigade Detachment, 1500 points

    Company Commander - 38
    -Power fist
    -Warlord: Grand Strategist
    -Kurov's Aquila

    Primaris Psyker - 46
    -Force staff
    -Terrifying Visions, Psychic Barrier

    Tempestor Prime - 45
    -Bolt pistol, power sword

    Lord Commissar - 35
    -Bolt pistol, power sword

    Infantry Squad - 67
    -Lascannon, flamer

    Infantry Squad - 67
    -Lascannon, flamer

    Infantry Squad - 59
    -Autocannon, flamer

    Infantry Squad - 59
    -Autocannon, flamer

    Tempestus Scions - 62
    -Two grenade launchers, two hotshot lasguns, hotshot laspistol, power sword

    Tempestus Scions - 45 (78)
    -Two plasma guns, two hotshot lasguns, hotshot laspistol, power sword

    Astropath - 36
    -Telepathica staff
    -Nightshroud

    Commissar - 24
    -Power fist, bolt pistol

    Tempestus Command Squad - 63
    -Two hotshot volley guns, two hotshot lasguns, hotshot laspistol
    -Medi-pack

    Hellhound - 110
    -Inferno cannon, heavy flamer

    Hellhound - 110
    -Inferno cannon, heavy flamer

    Hellhound - 110
    -Inferno cannon, heavy flamer

    Leman Russ Battle Tank - 168
    -Battle cannon, three heavy bolters

    Leman Russ Executioner - 180
    -Executioner plasma cannon, heavy bolter, two plasma cannons

    Manticore - 143
    -Heavy bolter
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2018-04-25 at 10:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Ringer list for this weekend's tournament. This'll only get played to fill bye rounds, so I'm not concerned about wrecking face (it'll count as a loss for me either way), but I don't want the players to be bored.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Cadian Brigade Detachment, 1500 points

    Company Commander - 38
    -Power fist
    -Warlord: Grand Strategist
    -Kurov's Aquila

    Primaris Psyker - 46
    -Force staff
    -Terrifying Visions, Psychic Barrier

    Tempestor Prime - 45
    -Bolt pistol, power sword

    Lord Commissar - 35
    -Bolt pistol, power sword

    Infantry Squad - 67
    -Lascannon, flamer

    Infantry Squad - 67
    -Lascannon, flamer

    Infantry Squad - 59
    -Autocannon, flamer

    Infantry Squad - 59
    -Autocannon, flamer

    Tempestus Scions - 62
    -Two grenade launchers, two hotshot lasguns, hotshot laspistol, power sword

    Tempestus Scions - 45 (78)
    -Two plasma guns, two hotshot lasguns, hotshot laspistol, power sword

    Astropath - 36
    -Telepathica staff
    -Nightshroud

    Commissar - 24
    -Power fist, bolt pistol

    Tempestus Command Squad - 63
    -Two hotshot volley guns, two hotshot lasguns, hotshot laspistol
    -Medi-pack

    Hellhound - 110
    -Inferno cannon, heavy flamer

    Hellhound - 110
    -Inferno cannon, heavy flamer

    Hellhound - 110
    -Inferno cannon, heavy flamer

    Leman Russ Battle Tank - 168
    -Battle cannon, three heavy bolters

    Leman Russ Executioner - 180
    -Executioner plasma cannon, heavy bolter, two plasma cannons

    Manticore - 143
    -Heavy bolter
    quick spot check says your scions are wrong, they'd need to be 10 man squads to have double grenade launchers and that costs 100+ points.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    I'm actually thinking of setting up a 'tournament' using Narrative missions. It's just the basic, play three games, and I'm mostly doing it to encourage people to play the narrative missions.

    I'm thinking the best three to use will be Meat Grinder, Ambush, and Sabotage. Those seem to be the most fun, the most varied, and the easiest to explain.

    Though since most people don't play them, I'm thinking of limiting it to 1250 points, because it's kinda important to make it as many turns as possible for pretty much all of those missions.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm View Post
    quick spot check says your scions are wrong, they'd need to be 10 man squads to have double grenade launchers and that costs 100+ points.
    Slower spot check with an actual codex says: no, scion weapons are 2 for five models.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    The fact is that each Codex is written stand alone, without taking in regard what allies you can take.
    No they aren't. Otherwise every Codex would be good at everything. That's demonstrably not the case.

    And they kinda need to be, because a lot of players, perhaps even most players, want mono-faction armies.
    But then GW can't sell AM models to Space Marine players.

    So each Codex needs to be viable using stuff that's just from that Codex.
    They actually don't. What you actually do, is force players to buy new models, and tell them if they don't, then they can't compete.

    If you let them actually synergize freely between everyone? The game would fall apart.
    This is actually correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    So yeah, bemoan it if you must, but accept it because I don't think we'll ever get things to the degree you want.
    I think the Allies system, now, is fine.
    The Beta rules have shafted certain armies straight out of the competitive meta for the next four months, but that's an issue surrounding the fact that those Factions suck, within their own Codex. Except the game is designed with Allies being an intended part of the game...Except then GW says that we're not allowed Allies? I like that we're now locked out of Super-Faction (e.g; <Imperium>) Detachments, however, with taking away our choices, they should've given us back another Detachment. While GW was busy fixing spam and patting each other on the back, they didn't add in a 4th Detachment at 2000 Points, to make up for the fact that they've just shafted Factions that need 'Soup' to win games.
    (I acknowledge, however, that this is mostly an Imperium problem)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Admittedly there was a lot of griping on the other side as well when your codex couldn't stand on its own (has that really changed?).
    No. And if GW is a business, they never will stand on their own.
    (Poor T'au and Necrons...And Orks)

    A lot of people are pretty open to narrative etc if you talk to them, but it helps to have some semblance of trust already.
    In my meta we played 'Open War with Points' (y'know, the format where Deployment and Objectives are determined by drawing cards, and there's Trap cards?). Except that lasted about two weeks, and we just went back to Maelstrom.

    Narrative is a nice place to visit. But I wouldn't want to stay there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Though since most people don't play them, I'm thinking of limiting it to 1250 points, because it's kinda important to make it as many turns as possible for pretty much all of those missions.
    I think in order to discourage net-listing and power-gaming (you'll never get rid of them), smaller tournaments need to focus on the not-2000 Points level. Not letting players use the toys they want is extremely bad forces players to innovate and at least try new things.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2018-04-26 at 03:00 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    No they aren't. Otherwise every Codex would be good at everything. That's demonstrably not the case.



    But then GW can't sell AM models to Space Marine players.



    They actually don't. What you actually do, is force players to buy new models, and tell them if they don't, then they can't compete.



    This is actually correct.



    I think the Allies system, now, is fine.
    The Beta rules have shafted certain armies straight out of the competitive meta for the next four months, but that's an issue surrounding the fact that those Factions suck, within their own Codex. Except the game is designed with Allies being an intended part of the game...Except then GW says that we're not allowed Allies? I like that we're now locked out of Super-Faction (e.g; <Imperium>) Detachments, however, with taking away our choices, they should've given us back another Detachment. While GW was busy fixing spam and patting each other on the back, they didn't add in a 4th Detachment at 2000 Points, to make up for the fact that they've just shafted Factions that need 'Soup' to win games.
    (I acknowledge, however, that this is mostly an Imperium problem)


    I think in order to discourage net-listing and power-gaming (you'll never get rid of them), smaller tournaments need to focus on the not-2000 Points level. Not letting players use the toys they want is extremely bad forces players to innovate and at least try new things.
    Not true, an army can be better at something if that makes it weaker at something else.


    Sure they can. Also that doesn't have anything to do with what people want.


    I find if a Codex isn't viable then it's just not played at all. The Necron codex dropping tripled the number of people bringing Necrons. And I haven't seen Grey Knights in a long time. Of course you can always just make new models for that Codex.


    Who needs soup to win? I mean, as things stand you can still ally. But you can't pull Ynnari BS. Did the Imperium have something similar to what they did?


    I think smaller point scores are needed so you actually finish your games. The last tournament I went to, the average game only lasted 3 turns. I usually managed to get at least 4 sometimes 5 turns in, but doing so required basically no small talk, and moving quick. In one notable game, it only lasted 1 turn, because we had a rule dispute that we argued over and eventually went to the TO to get settled. (It was against my cousin hilariously enough. He has a policy of no mercy against family, so at tournaments games between us can get nasty.)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Not true, an army can be better at something if that makes it weaker at something else.
    Hi T'au. How's that working out?

    Sure they can. Also that doesn't have anything to do with what people want.
    I know it doesn't. That's basically what I was complaining about at the end of last thread.
    That doesn't stop it from being GW's intended business model, and how if you don't get on that train, you are shooting yourself in the foot, and GW would actually hurt their business by giving you want you want.

    I find if a Codex isn't viable then it's just not played at all.
    Hi T'au.

    Who needs soup to win?
    The ones in Blue.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2018-04-26 at 03:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Hi T'au. How's that working out?



    I know it doesn't. That's basically what I was complaining about at the end of last thread.
    That doesn't stop it from being GW's intended business model, and how if you don't get on that train, you are shooting yourself in the foot, and GW would actually hurt their business by giving you want you want.



    Hi T'au.



    The ones in Blue.
    Guard do it too. Except they are actually good at shooting.


    Okay then.


    More like Bye Tau.


    We are talking about taking multiple factions in the same detachment right?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    We are talking about taking multiple factions in the same detachment right?
    I'm talking about Factions that need Allies to win, in general.
    The removal of Soup Detachments (not Soup Armies) is simply another choice that was removed that hurts certain armies more than others - depending on how the army is built.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I'm talking about Factions that need Allies to win, in general.
    The removal of Soup Detachments (not Soup Armies) is simply another choice that was removed that hurts certain armies more than others - depending on how the army is built.
    Okay, I'm talking about Soup Detachments. What armies, besides Ynnari, were hurt by that?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Too much emphasis on milking existing players, not enough in creating new ones. What you need is not to sell AM models to a SM player; its to get a different guy to play AM.

    Edit:
    Okay, I'm talking about Soup Detachments. What armies, besides Ynnari, were hurt by that?
    Sisters of Silence / Assassins / Inquisition, which were useful tools for AM, and tangentially for Sisters,
    Last edited by LansXero; 2018-04-26 at 04:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Okay, I'm talking about Soup Detachments. What armies, besides Ynnari, were hurt by that?
    Do you honestly not know, even after I linked you the list?
    Or are you just not aware how the Factions in the list, are used?

    Sisters of Silence and Assassins received hard nerf. Ministorum Celestine received light nerf. But in reality it means she'll essentially take up an entire Detachment slot to herself.
    Inquisitors were amazing for filling <Imperium> small Detachments (the rest of the Faction sucks).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    The fact is that each Codex is written stand alone, without taking in regard what allies you can take.
    No they aren't. Otherwise every Codex would be good at everything. That's demonstrably not the case.
    This does assume that GW is giving everything the power and degree of balance that they intend to, which is not at all a safe assumption.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Guard do it too. Except they are actually good at shooting.
    Nope, because crusaders and Ogryns. Except even they get overshadowed by being able to go out of codex for death company or whatever. Almost like it tau could ally into orks, and provide some good cheap anti-tank they might be worth playing. WOOOOOOOW, mind blown.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    No they aren't. Otherwise every Codex would be good at everything. That's demonstrably not the case.

    ...

    They actually don't. What you actually do, is force players to buy new models, and tell them if they don't, then they can't compete.
    Which is a bit of a let down as GW made a big deal in it's 8e hype about how each unit was going to actually offer something and be viable, not to mention the majority of advertising/photos they offer demonstrate the game being played by mono-armies. Clearly mixing it up is the better competitive option (and cherry picking the better units, durr), but such conduct contrasts the presentation of the game to the consuming public. Torches and pitchforks (or grumbling on websites) can come as no real surprise.

    And whatever happened to Xenos being the third side of the triangle of factions along with Chaos and Imperium? Just kidding! Xenos are isolated scum don't you know?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    And whatever happened to Xenos being the third side of the triangle of factions along with Chaos and Imperium?
    When did that happen?
    IIRC, GW said up front that the storyline (and thus, game mechanics) would focus almost exclusively on the Imperium vs. Chaos conflict.

    ...Which went immediately out the window in their very first campaign box, Imperium vs. Necrons.

    Who cares what you said?
    Everyone knows what you say doesn't matter, as long as you can throw it out the window and make money off of something else.

    (Remember when FLG said 'Rough Riders would be scary in combat'? ...Never forget.)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    When did that happen?
    IIRC, GW said up front that the storyline (and thus, game mechanics) would focus almost exclusively on the Imperium vs. Chaos conflict.
    It was part of the early hype train and clearly left behind at the station (storyline I agree was always presented as Imp. v. Chaos)

    (Remember when FLG said 'Rough Riders would be scary in combat'? ...Never forget.)
    FLG played the part of the hypeman a little too much as far as I'm concerned, hardly unbiased reviews (and from what I gather from my FLGS, is enjoying some sales benefits strictly forbidden to other retailers).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Well, to be fair, Rough Riders actually are scarier in combat than they have been previously. It's just that other melee units are better.

    FLG seems to play in a fairly casual competitive meta, where they bring theme lists and mono-faction stuff to playtesting. Which is fine, since that's what a lot of players do. But for promoting the ITC, they really fail to test against filth and then downplay how bad it reallyis.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    But for promoting the ITC, they really fail to test against filth and then downplay how bad it really is.
    I actually couldn'tve said it better myself. As the guys who effectively run (and police) the most competitive events in the world, their assumed naivete is really grating at times.
    "This new Codex just dropped and it's going to be hot..." ...It's total garbage and you know it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    I actually got into an argument with one of the FLG dudes over on Dakka about the Stompas. I said it was hot overpriced garbage, he said it was fine if you invest in it. My rebuttal was that it's already half your flipping army so how much more "investment" do you need?

    He didn't really have a response and the thread agreed with me. Here we are nearly a year later and Stompas are still hot garbage.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I actually got into an argument with one of the FLG dudes over on Dakka about the Stompas. I said it was hot overpriced garbage, he said it was fine if you invest in it. My rebuttal was that it's already half your flipping army so how much more "investment" do you need?

    He didn't really have a response and the thread agreed with me. Here we are nearly a year later and Stompas are still hot garbage.
    Heck, pre-codex and without using any movement increases (a'la Swarmlord) I've marked two squads of genestealers across the battlefield and shredded one. Losing such a pricey investment two units which cumulatively were half its points..... heaven help one up against dedicated anti-tank!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    This does assume that GW is giving everything the power and degree of balance that they intend to, which is not at all a safe assumption.
    Yeah. Even if things look good enough on paper, that doesn't mean it'll work out when actually put in with everything else. Let alone compared with other Codices.

    And sometimes, I imagine, it just comes down to image. "X faction should be encouraged to look more like this fluffy interpretation... so we'll just make the units you shouldn't take as many of more points." It's a lazy way to do it, of course, but it's probably something that happens.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    "X faction should be encouraged to look more like this fluffy interpretation... so we'll just make the units you shouldn't take as many of just actually terrible."
    Fixed that for you.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    And whatever happened to Xenos being the third side of the triangle of factions along with Chaos and Imperium? Just kidding! Xenos are isolated scum don't you know?
    When did that happen?
    IIRC, GW said up front that the storyline (and thus, game mechanics) would focus almost exclusively on the Imperium vs. Chaos conflict.
    I vaguely remember something like book said, though that might have been as AoS was coming out or something? I dunno, but it would fix some of the issues with the factions as it stands. The main issue though is Eldar keep being to good, so any Xeno's turns into Eldar+some broken thing. Also Necrons wanting to be included, but the obvious fluff issues with necrons+eldar/deldar/Orks. Just letting Tau ally into any other army except like... black templars and Deamons? Would help. Similar for Orks into not Necrons.

    Though also that assumes you drop the 1 per detachment commander limit... Really hope that does come down.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by LudDavenport View Post
    Nope, because crusaders and Ogryns.
    Crusaders aren't terribly good, as T3 dudes with no better transport than a Chimera. Are Ogryns/Bullgryns any good? Guard have plenty of options for detachments of better melee troops if they want them, and I can't say I've felt the need for melee in the handful of games I've played with them.

    An Ogryn Bodyguard for my inquisitor, though, is an idea as cool and fluffy as it is entirely nonfunctional.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Crusaders aren't terribly good, as T3 dudes with no better transport than a Chimera. Are Ogryns/Bullgryns any good? Guard have plenty of options for detachments of better melee troops if they want them, and I can't say I've felt the need for melee in the handful of games I've played with them.

    An Ogryn Bodyguard for my inquisitor, though, is an idea as cool and fluffy as it is entirely nonfunctional.
    Bullgryns get paired with Celestene to have 2++ melee deathstar; but they still have to walk up the field and cost a ton of points so most don't bother. Ogryns are for the Old school viking helmets.
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