D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[BerzerkerUnit]

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[SPOI

Spoiler: Path of the Shredder

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Deadly Instruments is a great solution to the problem of how to be a barbarian with a musical instrument.

It isn't clear if the second sentence of "Sick Licks" is supposed to apply only when you're raging. If you get those effects outside your rage, that's a bit at odds with barbarian design standards: most barbarian bonus damage is dependent on their rage.

Burning Spectacle is neat, but apart from the explicit ability to use Scorching Ray with a bonus action while raging, are there supposed to be other exceptions to the "no spellcasting/concentration during rage" rule? At high levels, one can expect barbarians to almost always be raging while in combat, so it's difficult to imagine ever getting much use out of Bonfire for this reason, and it's going to be pretty unusual for casting Bonfire to ever be worth the action of a barbarian, they would almost always prefer to throw a javelin as a ranged option. Also: pyrotechnics doesn't improve with higher level spell slots, so all the 16th level upgrade would effect would be Scorching Ray. Ultimately, I feel like this feature was written for Scorching Ray and the other spells were tucked in as an afterthought. So I'm inclined to think the feature would work better if it were just scorching ray.

November Rain is neat too. I would drop the Storm of Vengeance aspect of it: it's a 9th level spell and giving a barbarian the ability to sort-of cast a 9th level spell doesn't fit well with how magic is supposed work: spellcasters work their entire lives to cast that spell. Exhaustion doesn't make up for that.

Thanks so much for your feedback!

Sick Licks is indeed all “while you are raging,” I’ll adjust the wording for clarity.

Burning Spectacle. The heavy lifting of this feature is done by Scorching Ray, but the other options are ribbons that communicate intent of the feature. And it’s true, the effect of Pyrotechnics isn’t increased with slot level, but it is harder to counter or dispel. I should actually add control flame Cantrip as well.

November Rain. It’s widely accepted that Storm of Vengeance is terrible. ~21d6 to 6 creatures, only 11d6 to anything else in its massive area, but it requires every target to fail every save for 10rds to get that damage and some of those are Con saves, statistically the strongest, it also doesn’t discriminate between allies and foes. With that in mind, the fact you’re hit with exhaustion means it’s practically a ribbon as well. You can take a minute to hurt a city real bad, maybe annoy a dragon if it’s hiding in its lair. Maybe flood a dungeon? But compared to the call lightning option, whose single target potential is 50d10 over the same time period. (Probably higher since it targets 10ft cubes so you’re likely to hit multiple creeps a few times)...

Is there ever a time a Druid is going to cast this instead of Shapechange?

Thank you again for your feedback!

[Edea]

Thank you for the kind words.

I'd commentate but I'm inexperienced enough with 5e's ruleset that it'd be entirely fluff-based. Might try to give that a shot later.

[nickl_2000]

Feedback:

A much simplified version of some of the "sing during combat" mechanics we've seen so far, and that's a good thing. One simple "aura" effect which complements your rage= perfect. There may or may not be the problem of "how far away can your allies be and still hear you?"

Thanks for the review and thoughts!

I tend to go towards more simplified classes, that still have option. I've found that 5e leans that way, give the player options while still making it simple enough to play once a month with only a quick read to play. I think that is part of the reason 5e is as popular as it is, so I want to keep the paradigm.

I actually left the "how far away can allies be and still hear you" purposely vague since I wanted the DM to be able to control that somewhat based on the circumstances. However, it would likely be simpler to just spell it out, that way it's less effort for the DM in general.

Song of Speed and Song of Fearlessness are about where they should be balance wise. Quibble: Maybe rename from "Song of Fearlessness" to "Song of Courage" or "Song of Valor"? "Fearlessness" is kind of a silly word.

I'm never completely happy with my naming of things, and you are completely right there. Valor makes a lot of sense.

I feel like Song of Vitality makes a Tundra Storm Herald cry in the corner. Not sure what the solution to that might be. "Pretend the Storm Herald doesn't exist" is already a thing we do when evaluating bonus damage in a barbarian subclass, so maybe it's time we just take it behind the woodshed entirely.

I'm not overly concerned with the Tundra Storm Herald since that one widely panned as one of the worst subclasses out there (I feel pretty safe stealing from Storm Herald and Purple Dragon Knight without anyone getting to upset), but there is one significant difference between this and the storm herald. Storm Herald is automatic each round, to get the benefit of the Song of Vitality the ally must spend a bonus action. For some builds this is a fairly significant cost.

Song of Focus seems too weak under most normal circumstances (assuming your party has one other full martial and one semi-martial we're looking at maybe +3 or +4 extra damage per round, way below what I would expect from a barbarian damage feature) only okay in specialized parties (let's say you have two other full martials and two other other semi-martials for maybe +6 or +8 extra damage per round) and potentially very potent in unusual circumstances (+1 damage to every skeleton, velociraptor and animated object would add up quickly in a party of summoners). Maybe advantage on con saves is the real benefit and the added damage is just gravy? I'm not sure if I have an easy solution for this. I'm temped to say drop the added damage and improve it in some other way. Maybe Battlefield Mockery can take over the subclasses' bonus damage feature later (see below)

I was trying to give something to casters and something to martials that represents focus on a battlefield. But completely tossed it for this instead.

14: Song of Survival: Allies who hear this song are spurred to endure even the most brutal conditions. When an ally takes cold, thunder, lightning, or fire damage, they may use their reaction to gain resistance to the damage source for that one strike. It only applies to a single cause of damage and doesn't last for additional damage types or hits.

Feedback:
Battle Rage seems like a pseudo-bardic-inspiration. Which is fine and thematically appropriate, but maybe not terribly interesting. That said, most 6th level barbarian features are pretty meh, so maybe you're right on the money.

Battle Rage was absolutely a pseudo bardic inspiration that is renamed and slightly nerfed.
To give it a slightly different feel and help with the damage problem, I actually changed it to add damage when you hit rather than give a bonus to chances of hitting. It seems more thematic and differentiates it more from Bardic Inspiration, plus then I can make the die grow without stepping on bardic inspirations toes.

Feedback:
Battlefield Mockery is fun. As a 10th level feature, I see no reason to limit the ability by long rest: 3d4/4d4 extra damage and one attack rolled with disadvantage gated by a wisdom save isn't a big deal, especially considering this subclass doesn't have any other added damage abilities (apart from Song of Focus, which won't add enough damage under normal circumstances to really tip the scales, as I noted above) IMO: Make it once per turn but remove the rage damage.

An at will reaction seems like a little much to me, even if it's gated with a wisdom save. However, I bumped it to 2x Prof Mod to allow for more uses of it and bumping your overall damage.

Feedback:
Versatile Battlesong is underwhelming for a capstone. Being able to personally benefit from +5 speed, fear immunity, +5 tHP per round, or +1 damage and con save advantage just doesn't make much difference at this level of play. Frankly, even if you went back and allowed the barbarian to benefit from these features starting at level 3 it probably wouldn't break anything, which should say something. The ability to change your battlesong is reasonably useful, but again not really worthy of a 14th level feature. Also, remember that when you gain the ability rage at will you can change your song at the same time, effectively nullifying this aspect of the ability.[/SPOILER]

You have a lot of very, very solid points here. I wanted this to be a support class for the barbarian for much of it's career, which is why I didn't have it affect the barbarian and I think I will keep it this way. Especially with the Song of Vitality, that is a lot of temporary hit points for a class that is already getting less damage due to raging. I will toss out the bonus action switching of song, because you are absolutely right about raging at will. There is no reason whatsoever to have this ability here.

Instead I tossed much of the level 14 ability to do this instead.
Transcendent Voice
At level 14, you can bolster yourself with your battlesongs. Additionally, each battlesong gains strength or new features and now affects you as well as your allies.

Additionally, your singing takes on a mythical property. Even if you are affected by silence or your allies are deaf, as long as they are within 30 feet and can see you they still gain the bonus from your Battlesong.


My goal here was to add power in the songs themselves and make it harder for someone to take the core subclass feature away from you.

[nickl_2000]

Thanks so much for your feedback!

Deadly instruments
Dual wielding your violin and bow or Drum Sticks, or tambourines was the intent there.

Burning Spectacle
I think the default convention of specific vs General means the description of “when you rage use this feature to cast this spell” will sidestep the normal casting restriction. I was careful to say “use this feature for this spell” to insure it didn’t just backdoor all casting.

November Rain
The feature specified the duration is extended, I’ll change wording to “normal duration replaced...” and i think “What Constitutes an Attack” can normally be boiled down to “will it break invisibility.”

RAW
My Druid casts call lightning
Your Wizard makes my Druid invisible.
If my Druid calls lightning on a target, Invis remains in effect. I have not attacked or cast a spell. Same for Dragon’s Breath and a host of others. Most see RAI as “you try to do damage=attack” so I’d go with that interpretation for maintaining Rage as well.

And throwing 5d10 lighting AoEs is a fair trade off for the kind of damage you’d normally do.

Thanks again!

That makes sense on Dual Wielding, I just figured I would mention it since it seemed a little bit off to me. That's fine.

As for the specific vs general, I agree with you that it should be that way. I just thought it may be a good idea to spell it out to avoid confusion by someone else.

SNIP

I think you are overly concerned about your uselessness within a silence spell. A silence spell isn't something that will come up all the time, and it isn't a bad thing for a PC to have an occasional encounter where they aren't all that great in it. I think them being able to immediately get rid of the silence isn't the solution either, it still seems to much to me. Worse comes to worse, you are in heavy armor, you can still get in the middle of combat with a decent AC and use the help action.


The "as a reaction to your turn" feels off to me still. As far as I know, all reactions in the official rules are "as a reaction to X." Still, I understand the concept, so it should work as it is currently.

Capping it at 20 would probably work, I think that it's still a little much as it is now changed. Personally I liked the finales. They are powerful, yes but it's high level and the cost is extremely high.

Thanks for the feedback! And the compliments. This was a fun one to write. I made two changes based on your advice. This got added to Sweet Licks:

"During a long rest you can call up your guy Bartholomew, your instrument guy. He will have a new instrument delivered when you finish the long rest, free of charge as long as you plug his shop. If that instrument is lost or damaged, you can have another one delivered at the end of a long rest for a cost of 50 gold."

And I added scaling to the bonus Sleep spell. 1st level @2. Maximized @6. 2nd level @10. 3rd level @ 14.

I like the changes, I don't have a whole lot else to add in.

THANK YOU for PEACHing all of that, nickl_2000. Probably just flat-out going to incorporate the suggestions directly, I really didn't understand Stunning Strike (the way it read, it sounded like you spent the ki/made the declaration first, THEN made the attack roll, so all the Rhythm abilities need to be re-done anyway).

Also, I originally wanted the Performance checks to oppose something, so that the effect was a binary 'success vs. failure', but I just couldn't think of anything so the scaling mods were put in; now that I know about bounded accuracy I'll get all that out of there later.

EDIT: Went and changed quite a bit, hopefully it's starting to look more reasonable.

Spoiler: Way of the Sublime Chord Re-review

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The phrasing is much, much better on things. There is no need to worry about the confusion of rules, for those not as comfortable with the edition it can be confusing.

Svadhishthana/Sacral Chord (Orange, D)
3rd - Still a lot of attacks at this level. That's 4 attacks at level 3 for the cost of one ki. You will mow people down at levels 3-4 with this. It does get a lot less powerful overtime though. It would be interesting for a multiclass.

Anahata/Heart Chord (Green, F)
6th level- Frightened is actually a pretty powerful condition. If you are going to give it for more than 1 round allow them to make the save at the end of each of their turns to end it early.

Overall I really like the changes!

SNIP

I like the changes to your song to make it less powerful. Are you concentrating on the song? As in, could I cast Dust Devil and then start singing in the next round? Use my action to keep singing and my bonus action to do things with the dust devil?

I don't think you need an action type to command your companion, the way you updated it clarified it nicely.

Your regalia is either clothing or jewelry. It could be argued that gauntlets are considered clothing. DMs prerogative though. It isn't worth arguing over at this point though since it's likely not a huge deal.

I agree on the reprise. Great changes made :)

SNIP

That makes sense on the spell choices, it helps to understand your reasoning behind it.

For instruments of than lute and guitars you can make it a magical effect. There is no reason that a magical bard can't create a magic voice while playing their instrument. It would just be good fluff in there IMO.

As for the last two, if you make changes to them let me know and I will re-look over it.

[Damon_Tor]

November Rain. It’s widely accepted that Storm of Vengeance is terrible. ~21d6 to 6 creatures, only 11d6 to anything else in its massive area, but it requires every target to fail every save for 10rds to get that damage and some of those are Con saves, statistically the strongest, it also doesn’t discriminate between allies and foes. With that in mind, the fact you’re hit with exhaustion means it’s practically a ribbon as well. You can take a minute to hurt a city real bad, maybe annoy a dragon if it’s hiding in its lair. Maybe flood a dungeon? But compared to the call lightning option, whose single target potential is 50d10 over the same time period. (Probably higher since it targets 10ft cubes so you’re likely to hit multiple creeps a few times)...

Is there ever a time a Druid is going to cast this instead of Shapechange?

Storm of Vengeance is an army/city wrecker. Let's say you're facing an army of 100,000: Meteor Swarm will take out about 25,000 of them if they're standing shoulder-to-shoulder (1 foot apart) with massive overkill, but Storm of Vengeance is the solution, and you can cast it from hundreds of miles away on a clear day. It isn't weak, it's situational, a geopolitical spell.

[Damon_Tor]

I like the changes to your song to make it less powerful. Are you concentrating on the song? As in, could I cast Dust Devil and then start singing in the next round? Use my action to keep singing and my bonus action to do things with the dust devil?

Any time you're casting a spell with a casting time of longer than 1 action, it uses your concentration.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ba...erCastingTimes
When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so.

[Damon_Tor]

Spoiler: Feedback for the Avantguardian

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Always an entertaining read.

The perverse incentive to keep a negative charisma modifier is thematically appropriate, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. The subclass should probably include a way to voluntarily lower charisma, otherwise you're effectively locking any +2 CHA races out of the feature.

Strictly speaking, Wanna See my Collection doesn't work very well due to the rules for casting spells as a bonus action: you would be limited to thunder and enchantment cantrips to trigger the ability. You should probably include an exclusion to the bonus action casting rule in the ability.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Storm of Vengeance is an army/city wrecker. Let's say you're facing an army of 100,000: Meteor Swarm will take out about 25,000 of them if they're standing shoulder-to-shoulder (1 foot apart) with massive overkill, but Storm of Vengeance is the solution, and you can cast it from hundreds of miles away on a clear day. It isn't weak, it's situational, a geopolitical spell.

You’re absolutely correct, but how many times are you called on to apply something like this?

It’s so situational you’ll probably never use it. It’s like a justice system in a utopia. No matter how fair it is, it’s worthless because there’s no call for it.

[Fnissalot]

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Spoiler: The Muse

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I wish there was a just a little more fluff here. I know what muses are in the context of Greek/Roman tradition, but isn't clear how that would translate to a D&D setting.

In general I feel like the abilities are extremely narrow. For example, expanding the disadvantage on saves vs charms for your Love Song feature to any save forces by an enchantment spell you cast would open up the ability just a bit more. Lyrics of Love as a feature which only exists to make spells more difficult to counterspell is an ability that is only likely to come into play in very specific circumstances as well. Infatuated Fool is a bit better in terms of narrow application, though it's not clear to me what's actually supposed to be happening. They don't take you seriously so... how does that give you a free counterspell? Why does it end your song? Contagious Captivation is a fine ability which will see plenty of play, but it does seem a bit weak for a 14th level ability.

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I added some fluff and examples to clarify the subclass. It is not about the greek goddesses as much as it is about the artistic concept of muses being sources of inspiration.

The warlock abilities are usually not that strong what I can see so I don't want to empower it to much. I am worried expanding the love song into giving disadvantages on enchantment spells might make it to strong with how it buffs spells like hold person. Contagious Captivation seems strong enough to me, the power level of warlock's level 14 abilities are rather low; e.g. a once per rest 15-28 hp self-heal with retaching body parts, a once per long rest automatic skip of death saves with a small AoE, a single target unlimited duration charmed condition.

I rewrote Infatuated fool to make it let you reroll saving throws, and added that Lyrics of love acts like poor man's subtle spell but it ends the love song to limit how often it can be used.

[KragBrightscale]

Finally got my submission up.
Monk subclass: way of the Golden bell

[nickl_2000]

Finally got my submission up.
Monk subclass:way of the Golden bell

Review time then :)

Spoiler: Way of the Golden bell

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First of all I really like the concept and the fluff on this. It's a really cool and unique idea.

Please excuse the somewhat stream of consciousness review. I tend to write out my thoughts as I'm reading it so others can see my thought process and how I am processing the subclass.

Campanologist - History (Bells) is a little specific I don't see it coming up all that often, but hey it's more fluff than impactful. Kudos to the DM that can make it happen though. Is there a reason you went with perform (bells) rather than just giving proficiency with Bells as a musical instrument? I believe is equates to the same thing overall. The only questionable thing I see here is the optimizer in me wondering if I can carry around a big bell and make it a greatclub instead of a regular club (however, now that I think about it more that is exactly like a quarterstaff wielded 2 handed so there is literally no difference and my thought above is completely moot).

I'm assuming that all saves for Vibration Point abilities key off wisdom like Ki abilities?

I does feel a little bit odd to me that you aren't using your Ki for abilities as a monk, the use of a separate/unique point value really frees up the monk to land more stunning strikes and use the ki for base abilities.

Oscillating defense - This one actually feels a bit pointless to me due to the way that 5e sets up the object interactions and reactions. You are allowed to do this once per round, which causes you to knock a weapon to the ground. However, since it it still their turn they can simply use their object interaction to immediately pick the weapon back up and attack you again. The only time that would really be useful is in round 1 when everyone draws their weapon or when the bad guy has already used their object interaction. The problem I see is that if you didn't allow them to pick it back up, I would see it as overpowered. I honestly don't see a good middle ground for this sort of feature.

Gentle fist - A melee touch attack isn't a thing in 5e (like it was in 3.5 and earlier). I'm assuming that what you mean by this is that the attacks ignores all bonuses from armor, but you will need

Resonant strike - I read this as "if I hit with two unarmed strikes, I can also trigger this abliity" is that correct?

Shattering strike - Melee touch attacks is still not a thing (see above). Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of this ability. This feels like it's penalizing martials pretty hard. Are there any rules for armor being repaired in a PvP situation or anything like that? In a non-PvP situation it is likely okay, considering that you will likely need at least a round or two to get your VP high enough to be able to use it and most combats only last 3-4 rounds anyways.

Death Knell - This one is confusing me, power word kill has a 60 foot range. Does this have a 300 foot range? Also you have
"The sound of a bell tolling can be heard in a 300ft radius if target dies, Take 2d10 necrotic damage as a backlash if the target is unaffected."
Can you re-phrase that sentence, it is extremely confusing.


The abilities beyond level 3 seems good to me. I don't feel like anything is broken is problematic. The level 17 ability is a little bit boring, but I see the level 17 ability VP ability as more of the capstone than this ability. I also appreciate that there isn't an ability that allows you to start combat with X vp. I think doing that would cause some significant balance issues.

Also as a side note, if anyone needs an idea and can figure out how to make it work I would love to see a subclass based on the Garth Nix Sabriel series of book. I wanted to do it, but couldn't make it work myself.

[RickAsWritten]

Spoiler: Feedback for the Avantguardian

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Always an entertaining read.

The perverse incentive to keep a negative charisma modifier is thematically appropriate, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. The subclass should probably include a way to voluntarily lower charisma, otherwise you're effectively locking any +2 CHA races out of the feature.

Strictly speaking, Wanna See my Collection doesn't work very well due to the rules for casting spells as a bonus action: you would be limited to thunder and enchantment cantrips to trigger the ability. You should probably include an exclusion to the bonus action casting rule in the ability.

I missed this one. Thanks for taking a look under the hood. Both good catches on the technical end. I changed the expertise qualifier to "if your Charisma modifier is zero or less." That should bring those +2 CHA's back in the fold.

For Wanna See My Collection, I changed it to "Whenever you cast a spell of 1st level or higher of the Enchantment school or that deals Thunder damage to a creature, you may cast the spell Sleep as a 1st level spell as a bonus action without expending a spell slot." in the hopes that I'm creating a specific-beats-general type situation, and thus allow for Sleep to be cast as a bonus action. I think that works under the ruleset, but let me know if it doesn't.

[Damon_Tor]

I missed this one. Thanks for taking a look under the hood. Both good catches on the technical end. I changed the expertise qualifier to "if your Charisma modifier is zero or less." That should bring those +2 CHA's back in the fold.

For Wanna See My Collection, I changed it to "Whenever you cast a spell of 1st level or higher of the Enchantment school or that deals Thunder damage to a creature, you may cast the spell Sleep as a 1st level spell as a bonus action without expending a spell slot." in the hopes that I'm creating a specific-beats-general type situation, and thus allow for Sleep to be cast as a bonus action. I think that works under the ruleset, but let me know if it doesn't.

I would skip the bonus action: you can have them cast it as a part of the same action (and without additional components) instead. That way you bypass the issue entirely, and its also a better fit for what you're trying to simulate.

[KragBrightscale]

Review time then :)

Thanks for your input! You make a lot of good points! I’m working on making some changes, should be up in not too long.

I’ve split up your feedback and my responses below:

Spoiler: Campanologist

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Campanologist - History (Bells) is a little specific I don't see it coming up all that often, but hey it's more fluff than impactful. Kudos to the DM that can make it happen though.

Yeah, this was mainly for fluff and RP purposes. At least you’ll know what to look for when buying your next bell.

Is there a reason you went with perform (bells) rather than just giving proficiency with Bells as a musical instrument? I believe is equates to the same thing overall. The only questionable thing I see here is the optimizer in me wondering if I can carry around a big bell and make it a greatclub instead of a regular club (however, now that I think about it more that is exactly like a quarterstaff wielded 2 handed so there is literally no difference and my thought above is completely moot).

Maybe I made things too specific. I did mean for it to be an instrument that the monk knows how to play. Proficiency with it as an instrument does make a little more sense in that sense. I also thought a metal bell would hurt a lot if you got hit with it.

I did consider someone using a giant bell with a big handle. As entertaining as that might be, I thought the “2 handed” property would disqualify it’s use in martial arts. I guess if it’s treated as a quarter staff it would be ok.

I'm assuming that all saves for Vibration Point abilities key off wisdom like Ki abilities?

Yes, I’ll include that in the text for clarity.

I does feel a little bit odd to me that you aren't using your Ki for abilities as a monk, the use of a separate/unique point value really frees up the monk to land more stunning strikes and use the ki for base abilities.

Yeah... Although having 2 different resource pools can seem a little awkward, I wanted my monk to be able to do cool stuff even if they are blowing all their Ki on stunning strike, . Also I feel like making use of and redirecting energy is very “monk-like”. I might simplify it a little if it seems too problematic.

Spoiler: Oscillating defense

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Oscillating defense - This one actually feels a bit pointless to me due to the way that 5e sets up the object interactions and reactions. You are allowed to do this once per round, which causes you to knock a weapon to the ground. However, since it it still their turn they can simply use their object interaction to immediately pick the weapon back up and attack you again. The only time that would really be useful is in round 1 when everyone draws their weapon or when the bad guy has already used their object interaction. The problem I see is that if you didn't allow them to pick it back up, I would see it as overpowered. I honestly don't see a good middle ground for this sort of feature.

Hmm, that’s an oversight on my part. was too focused on the theme/feel of my monk. did not consider them just picking their weapon up again... got to fix that.

Spoiler: Touch attacks

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Gentle fist - A melee touch attack isn't a thing in 5e (like it was in 3.5 and earlier). I'm assuming that what you mean by this is that the attacks ignores all bonuses from armor, but you will need

Shattering strike - Melee touch attacks is still not a thing (see above). Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of this ability. This feels like it's penalizing martials pretty hard. Are there any rules for armor being repaired in a PvP situation or anything like that? In a non-PvP situation it is likely okay, considering that you will likely need at least a round or two to get your VP high enough to be able to use it and most combats only last 3-4 rounds anyways.

Shoot! you are right, still got some pathfinder and 3.5 influence in my understanding of the rules.

I wanted an attack that bypassed armor for “gentle fist” gonna have to rework that somehow. Would a flat +X to attack roll vs armored targets do the trick? Maybe just simplify it as attack with advantage...

I was a bit iffy about “shattering strike” myself. Armor is expensive, don’t really want to be facing any more enemies that can destroy it than I need to. Thinking of just replacing with the spell “Shatter” though then it is basically “gong of the summit”...

Spoiler: Resonant Strike

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Resonant strike - I read this as "if I hit with two unarmed strikes, I can also trigger this abliity" is that correct?

Yes, that’s a better way of putting it. Might just copy paste that right in there.

Spoiler: Death Knell

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Death Knell - This one is confusing me, power word kill has a 60 foot range. Does this have a 300 foot range? Also you have
"The sound of a bell tolling can be heard in a 300ft radius if target dies, Take 2d10 necrotic damage as a backlash if the target is unaffected."
Can you re-phrase that sentence, it is extremely confusing.

Yeah, I’ll clean that up a little. The 300 ft sound was fluff, but not really necessary. Spell was still meant to function as 60ft range.

The backlash necrotic damage and extra VP cost was because I thought it would be too powerful if it was just based on Ki or short rest. As a lvl 9 spell I though a monk shouldn’t be running around casting it left and right.

I’ll work on rephrasing it for clarity.

Spoiler: lvl abilities and starting with VP

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The abilities beyond level 3 seems good to me. I don't feel like anything is broken is problematic. The level 17 ability is a little bit boring, but I see the level 17 ability VP ability as more of the capstone than this ability. I also appreciate that there isn't an ability that allows you to start combat with X vp. I think doing that would cause some significant balance issues.

Thanks, and you are right again. The power work kill was intended as the main lvl 17 feature, though maybe I can replace the minor damage buff with something else...

Again, thanks a lot for your feedback. Still getting the hang of homebrewing and the 5e rules.

[nickl_2000]

Thanks for your input! You make a lot of good points! I’m working on making some changes, should be up in not too long.

I’ve split up your feedback and my responses below:

SNIP

Oscillating defense - I like this a lot better than before. It will work on natural weapons now when it didn't before and it just feels better.
Shattering Note - I think this is overpriced for the cost of it. By level 6, you are giving up 3 attacks (3d6 + dex*3) for a 3d8 AoE spell. Don't get me wrong, there are going to be times when it's useful since it's a AoE. However, it's pretty darn expensive with 4 VP and 2 Ki. Personally, I would drop the ki requirement.
Resonant strike - Not that I see it as a problem, but by level 11 you get this you can attack 4 times in a turn. So, getting 2 hits with unarmed strikes isn't that hard.

[RickAsWritten]

I would skip the bonus action: you can have them cast it as a part of the same action (and without additional components) instead. That way you bypass the issue entirely, and its also a better fit for what you're trying to simulate.

Good look. Made the change. Also reworked the capstone to better fit the theme. You now play a tune for one minute in an aura, as opposed to the old way of, doing one action and that's it.

[KragBrightscale]

Oscillating defense - I like this a lot better than before. It will work on natural weapons now when it didn't before and it just feels better.

Thanks!

Shattering Note - I think this is overpriced for the cost of it. By level 6, you are giving up 3 attacks (3d6 + dex*3) for a 3d8 AoE spell. Don't get me wrong, there are going to be times when it's useful since it's a AoE. However, it's pretty darn expensive with 4 VP and 2 Ki. Personally, I would drop the ki requirement.

Yeah I guess it is a little pricy. Decided to reduce the cost to 3 VP and 1 Ki. Kept the 1 Ki because it’s a 2nd level spell. Other monk subclasses that cast 2nd lvl spells usually cost Ki.

Resonant strike - Not that I see it as a problem, but by level 11 you get this you can attack 4 times in a turn. So, getting 2 hits with unarmed strikes isn't that hard.

Hmm... While it could potentially trigger often, it burns Ki to fuel so it might be ok? You’ll just run out of steam earlier.

Maybe I could have it scale depending on how many hits you land in the round before you trigger... so if you land 2 you could trigger it, but maybe you want to risk trying to land a 3rd hit before you do?

Not sure.

[nickl_2000]

Thanks!



Yeah I guess it is a little pricy. Decided to reduce the cost to 3 VP and 1 Ki. Kept the 1 Ki because it’s a 2nd level spell. Other monk subclasses that cast 2nd lvl spells usually cost Ki.



Hmm... While it could potentially trigger often, it burns Ki to fuel so it might be ok? You’ll just run out of steam earlier.

Maybe I could have it scale depending on how many hits you land in the round before you trigger... so if you land 2 you could trigger it, but maybe you want to risk trying to land a 3rd hit before you do?

Not sure.

I think 3 VP and 1 Ki is fine for shatter. I also don't think that Resonant Strike needs to be changed, there is nothing wrong with giving the monk more chances to trigger their ability. I just wanted you to know about the increased chances if it mattered to you.

[Phhase]

Hey frens old and new. Feedback time and patches for College of Defiance! 'pologies for the delay, The Greys are a hell of a malady.

Spoiler: Patch Notes

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Added replacement and targeting text for Beyond 11.

Removed silent Dispel Magic clause from Can't Stop the Rock.

Slightly tweaked HP --> THP damage conversion text.

Reduced the range of Song of Defiance to 25ft.

Creatures can now save every round against the Chorus of The Only Thing They Fear Is You.

Good Luck, You're F#$%^'d Distortion effect phrasing is reworked.

Good Luck, You're F#$%^'d Passive effect now grafts to the Attack action instead. (PEACH, is this too good?)

Can't Kill Us Chorus now stipulates that you must be able to hear the song (not deafened, Incapacitated or Unconcious are fine).

Animus Vox Passive caps at 20 AC.

Animus Vox Distortion phrasing changed.

Invoking a Finale now breaks magical silence within 300ft.

Stand Proud Finale phrasing changed.

End of an Empire Finale now lasts for another round.

Spoiler: Muse Warlock

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Expanded Spell List: Seems fine.

Perpetually Charmed: Now this is a very interesting idea. Before reading the rest of this analysis riddle me this: is "You are always charmed by your muse" a flavor-only statement? If yes, skip the rest of this paragraph. Now, the meat. First, what even is the text surrounding status conditions? What does happen if an enemy casts charm person on you, then an ally does? Does it have no effect since you are already suffering the charmed condition? Does it cancel out? Does the new effect replace the old? Do they combine? What happens if you cast it on yourself? What does it mean to be charmed by to concept of the ocean or the wind? What happens if you enter a null-magic zone? If someone uses an effect on you that breaks mental statuses like charmed? If you receive mind blank, which can hedge out even gods? I don't know, but if there is no formal ruling, you may wish to make one. Or not if I'm just overcomplicating things.

Singing Love Songs: Clarify "By being affected by silence." Other than that, it seems fine. Is it necessary to gate Performance proficiency through this feature? I feel like just granting it or ignoring it would both be fine, since it's the sort of thing one would want on this sort of character all the time, not just while already doing this one specific thing. Important note: Can you talk while using this feature, or need the song be constant?

Lyrics of Love: All creatures, do you think, or just creatures you are targeting with the spell? Otherwise looks good, though certainly a bit specific.

Infatuated Fool: Pretty straightforward. Specify "Use your reaction" instead of "take a reaction" for clarity on the action cost (minor).

Contagious Captivation: Not bad, I like it, especially how it piggybacks off of another feature. I'd name it something like Love Beyond Death or somesuch though, as it is it sounds like a more offensive feature (though this is totally subjective). Also possible typo: *wear off, not bear off.

Not bad, pretty good. One thing I usually like to see with Warlock subclasses though is a Pact Boon and various Invocations, both for the pact, and for the boon.

Spoiler: Soul of Song

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Music of Creation: Pretty standard.

Song of Destiny: Good feature, but why would anyone willingly fail the save? Do creatures have to save every turn even if they succeed? Also, should probably stipulate whether or not the creatures must be able to hear you in order to be affected. Oh, and, at who point during the casting is the slot consumed?

Fated Companion: So, me and my singing/talking Crab/Stirge walk into a bar...wait, can I have a singing/snapping to the rhythm crawling claw? Hilarious. Just seems like familiar with more steps other than that though. Which is good, make no mistake, but it's still just a familiar.

Regalia: Well, this is pretty good. I love the flexibility. Rainbow pimp gear on custom order!

Reprise: There's some hidden power here. My first instinct to to just use all of my Songs in order to buffer a bunch of "subtle" spells. Also, please don't forget, since you have access to Bard spells, this means that if you cast a Glyph of Warding using Song of Destiny, you can buffer a second (or third, or fourth) casting as an action. Casting Glyph as an action is potentially insane, since Glyph can be used to violate the rules of Concentration (a spell stored in a Glyph when triggered will be concentrated on by the Glyph, not you). I'd personally love this, but you may want to watch out.

I wasn't convinced at first, but looking at it as a whole, I quite like it! Just needs a few phrasing tweaks and it's legit.

Spoiler: College of Musical Theater

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Musical Number: I like the idea, but required backup singers is a little off-putting. I get the idea, it's why I added Chorus bonus action to my class after all, but how exactly does it work? Does at least 1 creature need to have used the special Help action before the beginning of your next turn in order for the performance to work/continue working? Typo in exposition, "out of *reach". Can a song's effect be used every turn al long as it lasts? Phrasing is a little unclear (Though I'm one to talk...).

Soloist: I'll be honest, this feels like a bandaid for something that should be a default feature at 3rd level. Use this design space for something more interesting. Allies need their bonus actions sometimes, which is why my Chorus is optional.

Versatile Song:This is pretty spicy, and could be hilarious flavorwise. Just be aware that it basically means you can succeed at anything once per long rest.

Spoiler: Sublime Chord Monk

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Welcome to the fold, fellow complexity addict . You're gonna fit right in!

Instrumentation of Body:
Usually I'm a little leery of ye olde generik Wutai interpretation, but you've done an excellent job here. I'm quite impressed at how it all fits together, how it integrates with existing features, and the Mantra-style flavor is on point.

Root Chord: Everything looks good here. What happens with Mantra of Being (and by extent, other mantras) if you don't take a short rest, though? Does it just last indefinitely?

Sacral Chord: (Muffled ORA ORA in the distance). Also, since Stunning Strike has no action cost and works in a manner similar to a Smite, does this mean that as long as you hit an attack, you can keep chaining ki and blow your entire pool in a blizzard of fists? That's crazy if so, awesome too.

Waist Chord: Solid.

Heart Chord: While I love the effect, wouldn't it be easier for Wind Dance to just say "Your movement can pass through but not end in solid objects, and you do not trigger attacks of opportunity"? Or is it intentional that you get access to the Ethereal Plane during your turn, potentially allowing you to put the hurt on something like a Phase Spider? I love having 15ft of extra reach, but what's the flavor here? Is it a sort of wind shockwave thing, an invisible ki thing, or more of a Hadouken deal? Monk with Control Weather is such an awesome image, good froggin idea.

Throat Chord: You can remove ANY condition? That's pretty crazy. So you could literally punch someone to cure them of petrification, I love it. What happens if you remove the unconscious/incapacitated condition from someone who has 0hp? Do they stand back up with 0hp? Also, despite being treated somewhat differently, exhaustion is technically a condition, so I recommend each level of exhaustion be treated as a separate condition.

Brow Chord: Echoing Moon dance looks like fun. Especially if you use the Dodge action beforehand, forcing the atack to be at disadvantage.

Crown Chord: Crown Rhythm is pretty sweet. Disadvantage on all saves and your pick of contested ability makes for a spicy ability. Does the simulacrum stick around if you attune to a different Chord? It's pretty crazy to have, I love it.

Overall, excellent work! Hope you stick around, it's really refreshing to get new participants!

Spoiler: Shredder Barbarian

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Deadly Instruments: Aka. the reason that an electric guitar is sometimes referred to as an "ax". Alternatively, a mariachi Luchador that dual wields maracas morningstars. Typo: "Simply". Looks good!

Sick Licks:...wouldn't a tool use check with an instrument you're proficient with just be a perform check? Why not just give proficiency in Performance, which becomes Expertise while raging? Otherwise, looks great! Everything checks out.

Doctor Feel Good: "For Every multiple of 10" is a weird way to acheive this result but the result and the feature are solid.

Burning Spectacle: Clunky phrasing on the spells, but a good feature. I don't know why, but I feel like having one spell choice for each element would be cool. Just spitballing though.

November Rain: Do you have to concentrate on the spells? That might be an issue if you're a frontliner.

It's very cohesive, which is important. I think it could use a little more spice though. And that whole "Tool use check" thing leaves an odd taste in my mouth. Might be a me thing though.

Spoiler: Battlesinger Barbarian

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Skald/Rage Song: Sweet. Instead of "Effects that will dominate" you could go with just the charmed condition, most mind control effects are riders keyed on that condition.

Battle Rage: Bardic Inspiration for damage, cool. Nice catch on the Magic Missile interaction .

Battlefield Mockery: Honestly, this is what Vicious Mockery should just be as usual. Smiting with an insult, exquisite.

Transcendent Voice: Looks great! Perfect capstone. "And not affects you as well as allies" sorry, what?

I think it comes together quite nicely! The Songs are just spicy enough, and I love the Vicious Mockery "smite".

Spoiler: Hipster DJ Wizard

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Also Sweet Licks: "And gain Expertise if your Charisma Modifier is 0 or less" PFFFFHAH. Good feature, love it.

Wanna See My Collection: Sleep as a rider effect is hilarious and powerful. Please tell me it takes effect after the main spell does? Because that makes me think that a Fireball converted to a Sonicball though Sorcerer Levels or the new Metamagic feat could be an amazing tool for nonlethally executing large groups. Maximizing the Sleep dice is just gravy on icing. You may want to include a clause for maximizing if the player roll a 20 on a main spell attack roll as well, just so that spell attack rolls aren't left out.

Haughty Airs: "Myeeeees, you see, as the minotaur rapper Great Johndinski once said, never sneeze on your vinyls BEFORE polishing them, but.."

Immutable "Charm": This is excellent, go out and charm those Gelatinous Cubes!

The Hidden Gem: At first I was confused, but then I read what they did to the Contagion spell and it made sense. Weird. Cool ability! I'd name it something else though, how about "Black Noise", or perhaps "Pop Trash"?

This is a pretty funny subclass, love the Sleep rider too.

Spoiler: Golden Bell Monk

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Another new face!

Campanologist: Does this actually do anything for Monk? I'm pretty sure History, Clubs, and Quarterstaves are all things that Monks are already proficient in.

Ki Resonation: Now this, I like. The mechanic of gaining resonance through all sorts of sources then expending it is a really cool mechanic. You could even stand to add a few more effects if you like, I love choice. And oof, the level 17 feature. It tolls for thee indeed.

Sacred Chiming: Nice, this is good. I almost want an alternative use though, that shifts in the offensive direction, summoning an adversarial spirit a la Bloodborne's bell-ringing woman.

Vibration Sensetivity: I love tremorsense. I feel like a default range of 15ft would be nicer though.

Master of Vibrations: I don't get it, the techniques that replace attacks spend all remaining VP anyway, so you wouldn't have any more VP to spend on the attack. In a sense, they only have a minimum requirement rather than a cost. Am I missing something?

I love sonic-type stuff, and this subclass is shaping up nicely. Welcome to the coolest corner of the Playground!

[Fnissalot]

Muse Warlock
Expanded Spell List: Seems fine.
=)

Perpetually Charmed: Now this is a very interesting idea. Before reading the rest of this analysis riddle me this: is "You are always charmed by your muse" a flavor-only statement? If yes, skip the rest of this paragraph. Now, the meat. First, what even is the text surrounding status conditions? What does happen if an enemy casts charm person on you, then an ally does? Does it have no effect since you are already suffering the charmed condition? Does it cancel out? Does the new effect replace the old? Do they combine? What happens if you cast it on yourself? What does it mean to be charmed by to concept of the ocean or the wind? What happens if you enter a null-magic zone? If someone uses an effect on you that breaks mental statuses like charmed? If you receive mind blank, which can hedge out even gods? I don't know, but if there is no formal ruling, you may wish to make one. Or not if I'm just overcomplicating things.

Meant to be continually having the charmed condition towards your muse. As far as I know, nothing in the rules says you cannot be charmed by two different creatures at the same time? And being charmed by the ocean is weird. I added that the original charm cannot be broken.

Singing Love Songs: Clarify "By being affected by silence." Other than that, it seems fine. Is it necessary to gate Performance proficiency through this feature? I feel like just granting it or ignoring it would both be fine, since it's the sort of thing one would want on this sort of character all the time, not just while already doing this one specific thing. Important note: Can you talk while using this feature, or need the song be constant?

Silence meant the spell and effects that prevents you from speaking. Moved the proficiency outside of the effect. And I would say you cannot otherwise talk during it.

Lyrics of Love: All creatures, do you think, or just creatures you are targeting with the spell? Otherwise looks good, though certainly a bit specific.

The idea was all creatures.

Infatuated Fool: Pretty straightforward. Specify "Use your reaction" instead of "take a reaction" for clarity on the action cost (minor).

fixed

Contagious Captivation: Not bad, I like it, especially how it piggybacks off of another feature. I'd name it something like Love Beyond Death or somesuch though, as it is it sounds like a more offensive feature (though this is totally subjective). Also possible typo: *wear off, not bear off.

Fixed the typo, and will use that name. It sounds much better.

Not bad, pretty good. One thing I usually like to see with Warlock subclasses though is a Pact Boon and various Invocations, both for the pact, and for the boon.

Thanks! Yeah, I have thought of a pact boon and a few invocations for the boon, so might add something. I am not a fan of patron specific invocations so will probably skip that.

Thanks!

See comments in bold

Edit: Added a boon and some invocations.

[nickl_2000]

Hey frens old and new. Feedback time and patches for College of Defiance! 'pologies for the delay, The Greys are a hell of a malady.



Skald/Rage Song: Sweet. Instead of "Effects that will dominate" you could go with just the charmed condition, most mind control effects are riders keyed on that condition.

Battle Rage: Bardic Inspiration for damage, cool. Nice catch on the Magic Missile interaction .

Battlefield Mockery: Honestly, this is what Vicious Mockery should just be as usual. Smiting with an insult, exquisite.

Transcendent Voice: Looks great! Perfect capstone. "And not affects you as well as allies" sorry, what?

I think it comes together quite nicely! The Songs are just spicy enough, and I love the Vicious Mockery "smite".

Thanks for taking a look and I'm glad you like it. I made the modification to the Song of Strength, that does simplify it and make it more effective. For some reason I was thinking dominate didn't include the charmed condition.

Yup on Magic Missile, being able to add 1d10 to all your magic missiles would be a bit excessive

One transcendent voice that is absolutely a typo, it should be "And now affects you as well as allies"

[Crim the Cold]

I put up my own entry tonight. Kind of late in the contest. I will understand if no one critiques it but will appreciate it if they do. Should be fairly well edited. My wife and I both made several edit passes. The amount of red ink she used to point out my grammatical errors made the page look like it was bleeding.

[nickl_2000]

I put up my own entry tonight. Kind of late in the contest. I will understand if no one critiques it but will appreciate it if they do. Should be fairly well edited. My wife and I both made several edit passes. The amount of red ink she used to point out my grammatical errors made the page look like it was bleeding.

Excuse the lack of formatting and typos since I'm on a racket instead of the computer, but something is better than nothing.

For the healing channel divinity is that per round or at the end? Per rooms seems a little powerful, once at the end seems a little weak to me. The other channel dignity needs to mention if it's an action, bonus action, or whatever.

The aura of morale seems really, really powerful, although tempered by being only 10 feet. Maybe limits the users on our to only damage or not so many things? I don't know, just a thought.

How does the level 15 charm thing work if you attack after you attack.?

What is the action cost of song of hope?
How far away cam allies hear the song?
This seems really, really powerful, but it's level 20 so I tend to give lots off latitude on that.


Hopefully this help some sense and is coherent. Glad you were able to get in before the deadline though.

[Crim the Cold]

Uploaded version 3 of the pdf which contains clarifications on action cost of and area of effect of abilities.

Excuse the lack of formatting and typos since I'm on a racket instead of the computer, but something is better than nothing.

For the healing channel divinity is that per round or at the end? Per rooms seems a little powerful, once at the end seems a little weak to me. The other channel dignity needs to mention if it's an action, bonus action, or whatever.

The healing is per round. It is powerful at level 3 but is outshined by clerics and bards easily at later levels.

The aura of morale seems really, really powerful, although tempered by being only 10 feet. Maybe limits the users on our to only damage or not so many things? I don't know, just a thought.

It is powerful. However, as an example the oath of the ancients aura gives magic resistance which is advantage on saves against spells. Advantage is equivalent to about a +4 to the roll. This ability can grant at most a +4 ( about 25% of the times it is rolled) therefore it has the potential to be equivalent to granting advantage but most of the time will be less than that. I would argue that it is less powerful than auras that grant advantage. It only seems like it is very powerful because it is versatile and grants a strict number increase to a roll which more easily quantified than advantage. It also can only be added to a roll or added to your AC once per round.

How does the level 15 charm thing work if you attack after you attack.?

The whole point is that you haven't attacked them after charming them. If you did attack them, it would be treated the same as any other time you attack a non-hostile NPC.

What is the action cost of song of hope?
How far away cam allies hear the song?
This seems really, really powerful, but it's level 20 so I tend to give lots off latitude on that.

Thank you for pointing out the missing action costs and area of effects. I have uploaded and linked to a new pdf with the edits included. Also yes the capstone is powerful but it takes time to build up to full power. Most combat encounters in D&D 5th edition seem like they last no longer than a minute. Assuming that first 3 or 4 rounds have gone badly enough that the paladin feels it is necessary to bring out his biggest gun the fight likely be over before it builds to its full power. Of course if they use it from the start of the battle it will likely be a curb stomp battle but I feel that capstones should be like that. After all wizards and sorcerers get access to the wish spell at those levels which when well worded can do the same. Clerics get Divine Intervention which lets them asks the literal gods to help them out. The barbarian gets unlimited rage and a boosted strength and constitution cap. The druid gets infinite HP through unlimited wild shape.

[MoleMage]

Voting thread is going to be a day late; got a family birthday today. I didn't know what our plans were going to be when I made the original deadline.

[nickl_2000]

Voting thread is going to be a day late; got a family birthday today. I didn't know what our plans were going to be when I made the original deadline.

No worries at all, we can survive waiting a day

[MoleMage]

Voting thread is up!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...-Voting-Thread

[MoleMage]

Voting is extended until next Wednesday unless someone wants to volunteer to post the tallies and new thread, due to IRL stuff. Just found out about it on Sunday and there's a bit of a scramble right now.

[Edea]

I hope everything's OK

[Phhase]

Voting is extended until next Wednesday unless someone wants to volunteer to post the tallies and new thread, due to IRL stuff. Just found out about it on Sunday and there's a bit of a scramble right now.

DM me the new contest post template, I can take care of it! All the best. Also, you'll have to be the one to update the Chat Thread, since it belongs to you.

Also, I forget, are there like 1/2/3 placings or just 1 winner?