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  1. - Top - End - #1261
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Spoiler: College of Musical Theater
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    Musical Number - I'm not sure why the action to start and action to end. I don't see a lot of abilities here that trigger more than once that you would need to keep this up for more than a single round. Also, this would be odd to do in combat, but nothing is preventing you from doing it right now.

    Sad Song - This is a lot of damage, I mean a lot of damage. A 10th level bard is likely doing 50 damage to everyone because with this subclass you are getting expertise in performance. So you have a DC of 1d20 + 13 + 1d10. Making a minimum of a DC 15 or an average DC of 10.5 + 13+ 5.5 = 29 (likely with advantage to get even higher). Even high CR creatures are going to fail this. Then you can literally do this 5 times per short rest, that is a flat out killer abiliity.

    Versatile Song - This is also likely a guaranteed success on whatever you like (see the numbers above). However, since it's only once per long rest, that seem perfectly fine to me.

    It's an interesting take, but there are some things needing clarification on how it works exactly.
    So I adjusted it all a little; the musical number can be maintained for a few rounds and gains a +1 to the Performance check for each backup singer. The action to begin and end is to reflect how songs are typically more than 12 seconds long I suppose. Also, while I did adjust the damage down for Sad Song, considering how it needs assistance and costs at least two actions, I thought it was somewhat balanced, but now they're all nerfed by the added limitation of being able to do each type of song only once before needing a short or long rest, and Sad Song's damage is just the result of the Performance check.

    My main goal here was to bring back the 3.5 idea that bards must necessarily invest in Performance, and what I'm envisioning is Disney or musicals having people break out into mass songs at the drop of a hat.
    Last edited by sengmeng; 2020-08-02 at 02:39 PM.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

    Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).



    Nod, get treat.

  2. - Top - End - #1262
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

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    Spoiler: The Muse
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    I wish there was a just a little more fluff here. I know what muses are in the context of Greek/Roman tradition, but isn't clear how that would translate to a D&D setting.

    In general I feel like the abilities are extremely narrow. For example, expanding the disadvantage on saves vs charms for your Love Song feature to any save forces by an enchantment spell you cast would open up the ability just a bit more. Lyrics of Love as a feature which only exists to make spells more difficult to counterspell is an ability that is only likely to come into play in very specific circumstances as well. Infatuated Fool is a bit better in terms of narrow application, though it's not clear to me what's actually supposed to be happening. They don't take you seriously so... how does that give you a free counterspell? Why does it end your song? Contagious Captivation is a fine ability which will see plenty of play, but it does seem a bit weak for a 14th level ability.

    Spoiler: College of Musical Theatre
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    I like this a lot conceptually. It hits on some of the same fun notes (no pun intended) as the Soul of Song.

    I will say that having this be a bard subclass here feels a bit strange: they already sing to cast their spells.

    The mechanics of the Musical number could be tighter. If they can "be maintained with a bonus action" (AFAIK "maintaining" a spell or effect isn't a defined term in 5e, so exactly what this means isn't entirely clear) why would it ever "take an action to end them" if all you have to do is not spend your bonus action to end them? Why do the backup singers explicitly gain a bonus use of the "help" action if the effect of them doing bears no resemblance to the normal effect of the help action? It also isn't clear when you roll the inspiration dice to see how long the song lasts. Do the backup singers need to use their bonus action to sing with you every round, or just the first round? Can one backup singer drop out on turn 3, and another backup singer take his place?

    Villain Song stands out as extremely powerful: a fear effect with a skill check in place of a save (is this an opposed check? what's the DC here?) that affects any creature of your choice that can hear you (it isn't clear how far your voice can reach normally, but this is easily hundreds of feet, or 3X as far combined with Thaumaturgy). Then you give all your allies tHP to boot.

    Sad Song is weird. All creatures gain the ability to be backup singers, yes? Including your enemies? And for that matter, this is one case were you want the song to be short, so you don't actually want many backup singers? So in a sad song, your allies are dis-incentivized from giving you backup (because that would prolong the song and delay the effect) but also put themselves in danger of taking damage by not backing you up. By contrast, your enemies (assuming they understand what's happening? How intuitive is this?) would WANT to be backup singers both to prolong the song and to protect themselves from the effects. Take this one back to the drawing board IMO.

    The rest are fairly low-stakes social abilities probably appropriate for "free" extra effects, so I don't have much to complain about.

    It's hard to judge the value of Soloist because I don't really understand how the backup singer mechanics are supposed to work. If being a backup singer is trivial for at least one ally, then this ability has very little utility.

    Versatile Song is a cool ability, though I would make it usable more often than once per day.

    Spoiler: Way of the Sublime Chord
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    Great fluff.

    It's not clear when the monks are supposed to spend the ki for their higher level abilities. For example, I assume they have to spend 6 ki each time they wish to cast one of the spells granted by their 17th level feature, but that isn't clear, especially since the 14th level features can't be easily read in a similar way.

    But in general, the effects here are cool. Some are very strong: in particular, I raised by brow a bit at all of the Svadhishthana's extra attacks, but I don't that's game breaking.

    Overall very strong, well done.

    Spoiler: College of Defiance
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    Not the first Rock and Roll Bard I've ever seen, but it's always fun. And you do it really well here.

    I've got very little negative to say. A few quibbles: you don't define any properties for your amp, other than it's something you create. Does it weigh anything? Can you lose it? Can you build another? How long does it take? Am I thinking too hard?

    Rage Against the Machine is a good effect, but my problem with it is that you've now got two strong effects that use the same resource, the Inspiration Dice. That's not inherently bad, but for someone who just wants to use Song of Defiance as much as possible, this would be a disappointing feature. Maybe spend a hit dice instead? Or have the target spend a hit dice? Rockstars live hard, after all.

    Finale is a really cool idea, an ultra-powerful effect with an epic cooldown and which more-or-less takes you out of commission for the rest of the day. A quibble: there's not a clear indication what "once per week" means. I expect it means "you have to wait seven days to use this ability again" but if so you should probably just say that. Otherwise, you run into the issue of whether a new week starts on a Sunday or a Monday, the DM needing to remember what day of the week it is.

    Spoiler: Path of the Shredder
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    Deadly Instruments is a great solution to the problem of how to be a barbarian with a musical instrument.

    It isn't clear if the second sentence of "Sick Licks" is supposed to apply only when you're raging. If you get those effects outside your rage, that's a bit at odds with barbarian design standards: most barbarian bonus damage is dependent on their rage.

    Burning Spectacle is neat, but apart from the explicit ability to use Scorching Ray with a bonus action while raging, are there supposed to be other exceptions to the "no spellcasting/concentration during rage" rule? At high levels, one can expect barbarians to almost always be raging while in combat, so it's difficult to imagine ever getting much use out of Bonfire for this reason, and it's going to be pretty unusual for casting Bonfire to ever be worth the action of a barbarian, they would almost always prefer to throw a javelin as a ranged option. Also: pyrotechnics doesn't improve with higher level spell slots, so all the 16th level upgrade would effect would be Scorching Ray. Ultimately, I feel like this feature was written for Scorching Ray and the other spells were tucked in as an afterthought. So I'm inclined to think the feature would work better if it were just scorching ray.

    November Rain is neat too. I would drop the Storm of Vengeance aspect of it: it's a 9th level spell and giving a barbarian the ability to sort-of cast a 9th level spell doesn't fit well with how magic is supposed work: spellcasters work their entire lives to cast that spell. Exhaustion doesn't make up for that.

    Spoiler: Path of the Battlesinger
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    A much simplified version of some of the "sing during combat" mechanics we've seen so far, and that's a good thing. One simple "aura" effect which complements your rage= perfect. There may or may not be the problem of "how far away can your allies be and still hear you?"

    Song of Speed and Song of Fearlessness are about where they should be balance wise. Quibble: Maybe rename from "Song of Fearlessness" to "Song of Courage" or "Song of Valor"? "Fearlessness" is kind of a silly word.

    I feel like Song of Vitality makes a Tundra Storm Herald cry in the corner. Not sure what the solution to that might be. "Pretend the Storm Herald doesn't exist" is already a thing we do when evaluating bonus damage in a barbarian subclass, so maybe it's time we just take it behind the woodshed entirely.

    Song of Focus seems too weak under most normal circumstances (assuming your party has one other full martial and one semi-martial we're looking at maybe +3 or +4 extra damage per round, way below what I would expect from a barbarian damage feature) only okay in specialized parties (let's say you have two other full martials and two other other semi-martials for maybe +6 or +8 extra damage per round) and potentially very potent in unusual circumstances (+1 damage to every skeleton, velociraptor and animated object would add up quickly in a party of summoners). Maybe advantage on con saves is the real benefit and the added damage is just gravy? I'm not sure if I have an easy solution for this. I'm temped to say drop the added damage and improve it in some other way. Maybe Battlefield Mockery can take over the subclasses' bonus damage feature later (see below)

    Battle Rage seems like a pseudo-bardic-inspiration. Which is fine and thematically appropriate, but maybe not terribly interesting. That said, most 6th level barbarian features are pretty meh, so maybe you're right on the money.

    Battlefield Mockery is fun. As a 10th level feature, I see no reason to limit the ability by long rest: 3d4/4d4 extra damage and one attack rolled with disadvantage gated by a wisdom save isn't a big deal, especially considering this subclass doesn't have any other added damage abilities (apart from Song of Focus, which won't add enough damage under normal circumstances to really tip the scales, as I noted above) IMO: Make it once per turn but remove the rage damage.

    Versatile Battlesong is underwhelming for a capstone. Being able to personally benefit from +5 speed, fear immunity, +5 tHP per round, or +1 damage and con save advantage just doesn't make much difference at this level of play. Frankly, even if you went back and allowed the barbarian to benefit from these features starting at level 3 it probably wouldn't break anything, which should say something. The ability to change your battlesong is reasonably useful, but again not really worthy of a 14th level feature. Also, remember that when you gain the ability rage at will you can change your song at the same time, effectively nullifying this aspect of the ability.


    I'll have to get to the Avantguardian later, ran out of time.

  3. - Top - End - #1263
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Feedback:

    [SPOI
    Spoiler: Path of the Shredder
    Show
    Deadly Instruments is a great solution to the problem of how to be a barbarian with a musical instrument.

    It isn't clear if the second sentence of "Sick Licks" is supposed to apply only when you're raging. If you get those effects outside your rage, that's a bit at odds with barbarian design standards: most barbarian bonus damage is dependent on their rage.

    Burning Spectacle is neat, but apart from the explicit ability to use Scorching Ray with a bonus action while raging, are there supposed to be other exceptions to the "no spellcasting/concentration during rage" rule? At high levels, one can expect barbarians to almost always be raging while in combat, so it's difficult to imagine ever getting much use out of Bonfire for this reason, and it's going to be pretty unusual for casting Bonfire to ever be worth the action of a barbarian, they would almost always prefer to throw a javelin as a ranged option. Also: pyrotechnics doesn't improve with higher level spell slots, so all the 16th level upgrade would effect would be Scorching Ray. Ultimately, I feel like this feature was written for Scorching Ray and the other spells were tucked in as an afterthought. So I'm inclined to think the feature would work better if it were just scorching ray.

    November Rain is neat too. I would drop the Storm of Vengeance aspect of it: it's a 9th level spell and giving a barbarian the ability to sort-of cast a 9th level spell doesn't fit well with how magic is supposed work: spellcasters work their entire lives to cast that spell. Exhaustion doesn't make up for that.
    Thanks so much for your feedback!

    Sick Licks is indeed all “while you are raging,” I’ll adjust the wording for clarity.

    Burning Spectacle. The heavy lifting of this feature is done by Scorching Ray, but the other options are ribbons that communicate intent of the feature. And it’s true, the effect of Pyrotechnics isn’t increased with slot level, but it is harder to counter or dispel. I should actually add control flame Cantrip as well.

    November Rain. It’s widely accepted that Storm of Vengeance is terrible. ~21d6 to 6 creatures, only 11d6 to anything else in its massive area, but it requires every target to fail every save for 10rds to get that damage and some of those are Con saves, statistically the strongest, it also doesn’t discriminate between allies and foes. With that in mind, the fact you’re hit with exhaustion means it’s practically a ribbon as well. You can take a minute to hurt a city real bad, maybe annoy a dragon if it’s hiding in its lair. Maybe flood a dungeon? But compared to the call lightning option, whose single target potential is 50d10 over the same time period. (Probably higher since it targets 10ft cubes so you’re likely to hit multiple creeps a few times)...

    Is there ever a time a Druid is going to cast this instead of Shapechange?

    Thank you again for your feedback!
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2020-08-03 at 04:22 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #1264
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Thank you for the kind words.

    I'd commentate but I'm inexperienced enough with 5e's ruleset that it'd be entirely fluff-based. Might try to give that a shot later.
    "Come play in the darkness with me."

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    I guess I'm a Neutral Good Human Wizard (4th Level)
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    Take the 'What D&D Character am I?" Quiz!


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    Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

  5. - Top - End - #1265
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Feedback:

    A much simplified version of some of the "sing during combat" mechanics we've seen so far, and that's a good thing. One simple "aura" effect which complements your rage= perfect. There may or may not be the problem of "how far away can your allies be and still hear you?"
    Thanks for the review and thoughts!

    I tend to go towards more simplified classes, that still have option. I've found that 5e leans that way, give the player options while still making it simple enough to play once a month with only a quick read to play. I think that is part of the reason 5e is as popular as it is, so I want to keep the paradigm.

    I actually left the "how far away can allies be and still hear you" purposely vague since I wanted the DM to be able to control that somewhat based on the circumstances. However, it would likely be simpler to just spell it out, that way it's less effort for the DM in general.


    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Song of Speed and Song of Fearlessness are about where they should be balance wise. Quibble: Maybe rename from "Song of Fearlessness" to "Song of Courage" or "Song of Valor"? "Fearlessness" is kind of a silly word.
    I'm never completely happy with my naming of things, and you are completely right there. Valor makes a lot of sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I feel like Song of Vitality makes a Tundra Storm Herald cry in the corner. Not sure what the solution to that might be. "Pretend the Storm Herald doesn't exist" is already a thing we do when evaluating bonus damage in a barbarian subclass, so maybe it's time we just take it behind the woodshed entirely.
    I'm not overly concerned with the Tundra Storm Herald since that one widely panned as one of the worst subclasses out there (I feel pretty safe stealing from Storm Herald and Purple Dragon Knight without anyone getting to upset), but there is one significant difference between this and the storm herald. Storm Herald is automatic each round, to get the benefit of the Song of Vitality the ally must spend a bonus action. For some builds this is a fairly significant cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Song of Focus seems too weak under most normal circumstances (assuming your party has one other full martial and one semi-martial we're looking at maybe +3 or +4 extra damage per round, way below what I would expect from a barbarian damage feature) only okay in specialized parties (let's say you have two other full martials and two other other semi-martials for maybe +6 or +8 extra damage per round) and potentially very potent in unusual circumstances (+1 damage to every skeleton, velociraptor and animated object would add up quickly in a party of summoners). Maybe advantage on con saves is the real benefit and the added damage is just gravy? I'm not sure if I have an easy solution for this. I'm temped to say drop the added damage and improve it in some other way. Maybe Battlefield Mockery can take over the subclasses' bonus damage feature later (see below)
    I was trying to give something to casters and something to martials that represents focus on a battlefield. But completely tossed it for this instead.

    14: Song of Survival: Allies who hear this song are spurred to endure even the most brutal conditions. When an ally takes cold, thunder, lightning, or fire damage, they may use their reaction to gain resistance to the damage source for that one strike. It only applies to a single cause of damage and doesn't last for additional damage types or hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Feedback:
    Battle Rage seems like a pseudo-bardic-inspiration. Which is fine and thematically appropriate, but maybe not terribly interesting. That said, most 6th level barbarian features are pretty meh, so maybe you're right on the money.
    Battle Rage was absolutely a pseudo bardic inspiration that is renamed and slightly nerfed.
    To give it a slightly different feel and help with the damage problem, I actually changed it to add damage when you hit rather than give a bonus to chances of hitting. It seems more thematic and differentiates it more from Bardic Inspiration, plus then I can make the die grow without stepping on bardic inspirations toes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
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    Battlefield Mockery is fun. As a 10th level feature, I see no reason to limit the ability by long rest: 3d4/4d4 extra damage and one attack rolled with disadvantage gated by a wisdom save isn't a big deal, especially considering this subclass doesn't have any other added damage abilities (apart from Song of Focus, which won't add enough damage under normal circumstances to really tip the scales, as I noted above) IMO: Make it once per turn but remove the rage damage.
    An at will reaction seems like a little much to me, even if it's gated with a wisdom save. However, I bumped it to 2x Prof Mod to allow for more uses of it and bumping your overall damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Feedback:
    Versatile Battlesong is underwhelming for a capstone. Being able to personally benefit from +5 speed, fear immunity, +5 tHP per round, or +1 damage and con save advantage just doesn't make much difference at this level of play. Frankly, even if you went back and allowed the barbarian to benefit from these features starting at level 3 it probably wouldn't break anything, which should say something. The ability to change your battlesong is reasonably useful, but again not really worthy of a 14th level feature. Also, remember that when you gain the ability rage at will you can change your song at the same time, effectively nullifying this aspect of the ability.[/SPOILER]
    You have a lot of very, very solid points here. I wanted this to be a support class for the barbarian for much of it's career, which is why I didn't have it affect the barbarian and I think I will keep it this way. Especially with the Song of Vitality, that is a lot of temporary hit points for a class that is already getting less damage due to raging. I will toss out the bonus action switching of song, because you are absolutely right about raging at will. There is no reason whatsoever to have this ability here.

    Instead I tossed much of the level 14 ability to do this instead.
    Transcendent Voice
    At level 14, you can bolster yourself with your battlesongs. Additionally, each battlesong gains strength or new features and now affects you as well as your allies.

    Additionally, your singing takes on a mythical property. Even if you are affected by silence or your allies are deaf, as long as they are within 30 feet and can see you they still gain the bonus from your Battlesong.


    My goal here was to add power in the songs themselves and make it harder for someone to take the core subclass feature away from you.

  6. - Top - End - #1266
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Thanks so much for your feedback!

    Deadly instruments
    Dual wielding your violin and bow or Drum Sticks, or tambourines was the intent there.

    Burning Spectacle
    I think the default convention of specific vs General means the description of “when you rage use this feature to cast this spell” will sidestep the normal casting restriction. I was careful to say “use this feature for this spell” to insure it didn’t just backdoor all casting.

    November Rain
    The feature specified the duration is extended, I’ll change wording to “normal duration replaced...” and i think “What Constitutes an Attack” can normally be boiled down to “will it break invisibility.”

    RAW
    My Druid casts call lightning
    Your Wizard makes my Druid invisible.
    If my Druid calls lightning on a target, Invis remains in effect. I have not attacked or cast a spell. Same for Dragon’s Breath and a host of others. Most see RAI as “you try to do damage=attack” so I’d go with that interpretation for maintaining Rage as well.

    And throwing 5d10 lighting AoEs is a fair trade off for the kind of damage you’d normally do.

    Thanks again!

    That makes sense on Dual Wielding, I just figured I would mention it since it seemed a little bit off to me. That's fine.

    As for the specific vs general, I agree with you that it should be that way. I just thought it may be a good idea to spell it out to avoid confusion by someone else.





    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    SNIP
    I think you are overly concerned about your uselessness within a silence spell. A silence spell isn't something that will come up all the time, and it isn't a bad thing for a PC to have an occasional encounter where they aren't all that great in it. I think them being able to immediately get rid of the silence isn't the solution either, it still seems to much to me. Worse comes to worse, you are in heavy armor, you can still get in the middle of combat with a decent AC and use the help action.


    The "as a reaction to your turn" feels off to me still. As far as I know, all reactions in the official rules are "as a reaction to X." Still, I understand the concept, so it should work as it is currently.

    Capping it at 20 would probably work, I think that it's still a little much as it is now changed. Personally I liked the finales. They are powerful, yes but it's high level and the cost is extremely high.



    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Thanks for the feedback! And the compliments. This was a fun one to write. I made two changes based on your advice. This got added to Sweet Licks:

    "During a long rest you can call up your guy Bartholomew, your instrument guy. He will have a new instrument delivered when you finish the long rest, free of charge as long as you plug his shop. If that instrument is lost or damaged, you can have another one delivered at the end of a long rest for a cost of 50 gold."

    And I added scaling to the bonus Sleep spell. 1st level @2. Maximized @6. 2nd level @10. 3rd level @ 14.
    I like the changes, I don't have a whole lot else to add in.



    Quote Originally Posted by Edea View Post
    THANK YOU for PEACHing all of that, nickl_2000. Probably just flat-out going to incorporate the suggestions directly, I really didn't understand Stunning Strike (the way it read, it sounded like you spent the ki/made the declaration first, THEN made the attack roll, so all the Rhythm abilities need to be re-done anyway).

    Also, I originally wanted the Performance checks to oppose something, so that the effect was a binary 'success vs. failure', but I just couldn't think of anything so the scaling mods were put in; now that I know about bounded accuracy I'll get all that out of there later.

    EDIT: Went and changed quite a bit, hopefully it's starting to look more reasonable.
    Spoiler: Way of the Sublime Chord Re-review
    Show


    The phrasing is much, much better on things. There is no need to worry about the confusion of rules, for those not as comfortable with the edition it can be confusing.

    Svadhishthana/Sacral Chord (Orange, D)
    3rd - Still a lot of attacks at this level. That's 4 attacks at level 3 for the cost of one ki. You will mow people down at levels 3-4 with this. It does get a lot less powerful overtime though. It would be interesting for a multiclass.

    Anahata/Heart Chord (Green, F)
    6th level- Frightened is actually a pretty powerful condition. If you are going to give it for more than 1 round allow them to make the save at the end of each of their turns to end it early.

    Overall I really like the changes!








    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    SNIP

    I like the changes to your song to make it less powerful. Are you concentrating on the song? As in, could I cast Dust Devil and then start singing in the next round? Use my action to keep singing and my bonus action to do things with the dust devil?

    I don't think you need an action type to command your companion, the way you updated it clarified it nicely.

    Your regalia is either clothing or jewelry. It could be argued that gauntlets are considered clothing. DMs prerogative though. It isn't worth arguing over at this point though since it's likely not a huge deal.

    I agree on the reprise. Great changes made :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fnissalot View Post
    SNIP
    That makes sense on the spell choices, it helps to understand your reasoning behind it.

    For instruments of than lute and guitars you can make it a magical effect. There is no reason that a magical bard can't create a magic voice while playing their instrument. It would just be good fluff in there IMO.

    As for the last two, if you make changes to them let me know and I will re-look over it.

  7. - Top - End - #1267
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    November Rain. It’s widely accepted that Storm of Vengeance is terrible. ~21d6 to 6 creatures, only 11d6 to anything else in its massive area, but it requires every target to fail every save for 10rds to get that damage and some of those are Con saves, statistically the strongest, it also doesn’t discriminate between allies and foes. With that in mind, the fact you’re hit with exhaustion means it’s practically a ribbon as well. You can take a minute to hurt a city real bad, maybe annoy a dragon if it’s hiding in its lair. Maybe flood a dungeon? But compared to the call lightning option, whose single target potential is 50d10 over the same time period. (Probably higher since it targets 10ft cubes so you’re likely to hit multiple creeps a few times)...

    Is there ever a time a Druid is going to cast this instead of Shapechange?
    Storm of Vengeance is an army/city wrecker. Let's say you're facing an army of 100,000: Meteor Swarm will take out about 25,000 of them if they're standing shoulder-to-shoulder (1 foot apart) with massive overkill, but Storm of Vengeance is the solution, and you can cast it from hundreds of miles away on a clear day. It isn't weak, it's situational, a geopolitical spell.

  8. - Top - End - #1268
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I like the changes to your song to make it less powerful. Are you concentrating on the song? As in, could I cast Dust Devil and then start singing in the next round? Use my action to keep singing and my bonus action to do things with the dust devil?
    Any time you're casting a spell with a casting time of longer than 1 action, it uses your concentration.
    https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ba...erCastingTimes
    When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2020-08-03 at 01:37 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #1269
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Spoiler: Feedback for the Avantguardian
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    Always an entertaining read.

    The perverse incentive to keep a negative charisma modifier is thematically appropriate, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. The subclass should probably include a way to voluntarily lower charisma, otherwise you're effectively locking any +2 CHA races out of the feature.

    Strictly speaking, Wanna See my Collection doesn't work very well due to the rules for casting spells as a bonus action: you would be limited to thunder and enchantment cantrips to trigger the ability. You should probably include an exclusion to the bonus action casting rule in the ability.

  10. - Top - End - #1270
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Storm of Vengeance is an army/city wrecker. Let's say you're facing an army of 100,000: Meteor Swarm will take out about 25,000 of them if they're standing shoulder-to-shoulder (1 foot apart) with massive overkill, but Storm of Vengeance is the solution, and you can cast it from hundreds of miles away on a clear day. It isn't weak, it's situational, a geopolitical spell.
    You’re absolutely correct, but how many times are you called on to apply something like this?

    It’s so situational you’ll probably never use it. It’s like a justice system in a utopia. No matter how fair it is, it’s worthless because there’s no call for it.

  11. - Top - End - #1271
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2018

    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
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    Spoiler: The Muse
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    I wish there was a just a little more fluff here. I know what muses are in the context of Greek/Roman tradition, but isn't clear how that would translate to a D&D setting.

    In general I feel like the abilities are extremely narrow. For example, expanding the disadvantage on saves vs charms for your Love Song feature to any save forces by an enchantment spell you cast would open up the ability just a bit more. Lyrics of Love as a feature which only exists to make spells more difficult to counterspell is an ability that is only likely to come into play in very specific circumstances as well. Infatuated Fool is a bit better in terms of narrow application, though it's not clear to me what's actually supposed to be happening. They don't take you seriously so... how does that give you a free counterspell? Why does it end your song? Contagious Captivation is a fine ability which will see plenty of play, but it does seem a bit weak for a 14th level ability.
    .
    I added some fluff and examples to clarify the subclass. It is not about the greek goddesses as much as it is about the artistic concept of muses being sources of inspiration.

    The warlock abilities are usually not that strong what I can see so I don't want to empower it to much. I am worried expanding the love song into giving disadvantages on enchantment spells might make it to strong with how it buffs spells like hold person. Contagious Captivation seems strong enough to me, the power level of warlock's level 14 abilities are rather low; e.g. a once per rest 15-28 hp self-heal with retaching body parts, a once per long rest automatic skip of death saves with a small AoE, a single target unlimited duration charmed condition.

    I rewrote Infatuated fool to make it let you reroll saving throws, and added that Lyrics of love acts like poor man's subtle spell but it ends the love song to limit how often it can be used.
    Last edited by Fnissalot; 2020-08-04 at 04:29 AM.

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