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  1. - Top - End - #1171
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Frenzy needs to be renamed. The effects are super cool though.
    Frenzy is a direct reference to Bloodborne, where it does pretty much does the same thing: Looking at the horror too long makes your head go boom. Glad you like it! I was a little worried about adding ANOTHER entire new game mechanic, but it fit so well I couldn't resist. If you've got a suggestion for a better name, I'll consider it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    I'm not crazy about giving a feat outright, even if it isn't the strongest feat. Reading further, the new cantrip makes the feat completely redundant. I'd suggest removing Keen Mind.
    Keen Mind is (at least, from what I've heard) regarded as the worst feat in all of 5e. All said, it is mostly in there for flavor. The INT bonus is ok in my mind (), since Warlock doesn't scale off of INT (Number of Memory Object aside), and I like having the photographic memory thing in there to really encourage the use of the pact boon. You make a salient point about Amanuensis, but I contest that you can't cast spells from a memory of a scroll, nor can you copy while viewing one. It was probably a mistake to allow Amanuensis to work from memory, I'll change that. I should probably put some kind of time or quantity limiter on the creation of Memory Objects, perhaps a 10 minute creation time instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Some trippy stuff here. All of your subclasses have super cool themes and flavor, but they always have mechanics that are so far outside-the-box that they can't even see it anymore. It's interesting. Some of the stuff borders on genius, and some of it doesn't seem like it was written for the game of D&D.
    So what you're saying, is that I'm the Hideo Kojima of homebrew ? Jokes aside, thank you! Forget subclasses, not even a full class could capture the breadth of my appreciation . There are a couple of camps of thought around 5e's design I've seen. The first think it's an easy game for babies (gross paraphrasal for comedic effect ONLY), and prefer 3.5. The second find 5e's simplicity to be elegant, and a beacon toward which to sail future designs. Me, I like some of what we have, ad very much appreciate the approachability (I grew up reading 3.5 sourcebooks. Even though I loved it, even now I still do not understand how to play 3.5), but at once think 5e's been far too reductive in some ways. That averages out to something I like to call "Good Iron". I see 5e like a box of Tinkertoys. Tools to build something greater, and more - which means more complex at times, certainly. Most times where I'm concerned, admittedly...
    Which bits are you having a hard time grasping here (Which is a little ironic considering the theming of the subclass...)?
    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Anyway, the pact boon is neat, like that memory bowl thing from Harry Potter. Need-to-Know, and Beyond Ken are good. All of the reading-triggered abilities are cool, but I feel like they are going to be pretty difficult to set up in a regular bog-standard fantasy campaign. It would have to be a very spy-heavy, social campaign to see regular use. [/SPOILER]
    Glad you like it! I have to admit, the Pensive was not my first thought, but I do see it. Read the Invocations a bit more closely. I was actually concerned that some of them were a bit TOO good, albeit dependent on being enabled by the Frenzy Mechanic in some ways.

    Let's harken back to that example I gave in the Pact of Memories section. What you're doing, in essence, is "Storing" those 2 points of Frenzy in a Memory Object. The way I'd handle it if you were to get those points cured while you still possessed the memory in your mind is that your mind has accepted that particular memory, and that it no longer troubles you. Now, let's say you turned that same memory into a dagger and stabbed someone with it. In living your memory out (Which is NOT the same as viewing it with the Pact of Memories video-play feature), they'd have to save or whatever, or risk gaining the same Frenzy you did. And if you were, for example, using Remember Me to cast and AOE spell instead, every creature would have to save...

    Furthermore, consider Not Quite The Same. Not Quite the same effectively combines with Remember Me/Edge of My Sword and
    the writing-based trap spells to allow you to piggyback Glyphs or other traps onto other attacks and spells. Let's say you cast Dissonant Whispers on an enemy, and use a memory with a Frenzy Value of 2, that is trapped with a Glyph of Warding that casts Mind Spike. You can optionally use Whole Truth to enhance the glyph, the object, AND the spell in the glyph with one of the three bonus effects (Albeit at a steep cost). That spell is friggen loaded. Honestly, listening to it, I probably need to tune it down.

    You're certainly right it would be great in an intrigue campaign, though. And consider that this subclass is all about weaponizing the side effects of your research. What the knowledge you are seeking actually does could be something else entirely (campaign dependent of course).
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  2. - Top - End - #1172
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    *cough* Keen Mind is great in the right situations. I love it on an illusionist. Really, anybody with minor illusion can turn it into permanent long-term memory just by reviewing stuff they know with illusions to keep it freshly seen or heard. And that's only half the feat. Though I admit knowing the time and north is more situational.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Spoiler: College of the Brush
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    Bardic College, you need to mention that for the sake of clarity.

    Living Art: How does the bard command them? What do they do if there is no command? How long does it take to make them? Can you have more than one at a time?

    I can't believe I am saying this, but level 3 seems weak you need more. May I suggest an extra use for bardic inspiration? That is standard for a bard from official sources.


    Protection of Expression: So, it lasts half your level in rounds. And it gets HP = bard level + charisma. Does each person get that much damage reduction, or is it overall? If it's each person, then it seem cool. If it's overall it's underpowered.


    Artistic Details:
    Reach: Can this be applied more than once?
    There is nothing to increase the to hit chance that I see. a +2 is not going to cut it for long.



    Mentioned and clarified
    added turns and commands stuff
    I'll try and think something up extra for 3rd level. But I don't think it's to underpowered having a flat 1d6 extra damage, a semi-meat shield and an extra set of hands.
    It's overall
    Doesn't say it can and added something to add higher hit chance
    Last edited by thisdude9001; 2020-05-06 at 01:15 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Still trying to think of an idea for this one. But I have a question I want to get peoples' opinion on.

    How long should we wait before reintroducing old themes back into the pool? There's no real reason we couldn't do a second It's Technical eventually, I'm just wondering how long everyone would rather we wait in between.
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  5. - Top - End - #1175
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Still trying to think of an idea for this one. But I have a question I want to get peoples' opinion on.

    How long should we wait before reintroducing old themes back into the pool? There's no real reason we couldn't do a second It's Technical eventually, I'm just wondering how long everyone would rather we wait in between.
    I'd say three or four contests would be a good minimum for reintroducing an old contest.
    Last edited by SleeplessWriter; 2020-05-14 at 12:35 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Still trying to think of an idea for this one. But I have a question I want to get peoples' opinion on.

    How long should we wait before reintroducing old themes back into the pool? There's no real reason we couldn't do a second It's Technical eventually, I'm just wondering how long everyone would rather we wait in between.
    I would say 6 contests. That equates to about 6 months, which seems like a decent amount of time between to me.

  7. - Top - End - #1177
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Well, darn. I don't know that I'll get a submission in this time. I had an idea, but I feel like yet-another-tattoo-based-one is overloading it, and (more damning) it was too dependent on a specific other class being present. And I never quite came up with a way to do it stand-alone, keeping ribbon features for cooperation, and make it work out balanced.

    I might try still, but good luck to those who did get their ideas written out!

  8. - Top - End - #1178
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    I added some new spells that work thematically for the Volumancer.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Spoiler: Formulated Rage
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    Formulated Rage

    Starting at 3rd level, you can present your prospective enemies with a form that allows them to proceed with combat in a document-approved manner. Once during your Rage, as an action you can present a creature within 5 feet of you with a magically binding combat approval form. A creature must be able to understand a language for it to know that it must fill-out this form, but it does not need to share a language with you. The creature must spend its next action filling out the form and signing it for verification. As a part of this action, they must make a contested Intelligence check against your Bureaucracy skill. On a successful check, the creature correctly completes the form, and the form disappears. On a failure, it must repeat this action on its next turn. While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, you cannot make weapon attacks against that creature. Impertinence is unbecoming of you.
    While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, your Rage can only be ended early if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it.


    Is Formulated Rage still too strong? I know that it doesn't follow the normal standard of design for 5e (a saving throw to negate an effect at the end of each round), but there are at least few spells that require checks instead of saves. If the check was changed from a contested Intelligence check to a contested Wisdom check, it would bring the power level down and still make sense thematically, but I have yet to come up with a good way to restructure the ability to use saving throws without nerfing it into the ground. Any thoughts?

  10. - Top - End - #1180
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Probably needs a rebalance and it's further afield from the theme than I usually do (Ironically, it would have been better last contest), but it was on my to-make list already. The Constellar Fighter is written for a first draft at least!

    I'm sorry I haven't given any feedback this cycle. I either started running or playing in several new games since this one went up, and a lot of my creativity has gone into that lately. I've hit a routine with all of those (hopefully) now, though, and should be able to be more active next contest.
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2020-05-21 at 04:09 PM.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I added some new spells that work thematically for the Volumancer.
    Not sure I'm a big fan of the time increasing/decreasing on the casting of the spells. It's an added complication I wouldn't want to deal with as a DM, but that is just me.

    Scroll of Instruction - This one seems broken to me. A second level spell that gives proficiency with a skill for 10 days?


    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Spoiler: Formulated Rage
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    Formulated Rage

    Starting at 3rd level, you can present your prospective enemies with a form that allows them to proceed with combat in a document-approved manner. Once during your Rage, as an action you can present a creature within 5 feet of you with a magically binding combat approval form. A creature must be able to understand a language for it to know that it must fill-out this form, but it does not need to share a language with you. The creature must spend its next action filling out the form and signing it for verification. As a part of this action, they must make a contested Intelligence check against your Bureaucracy skill. On a successful check, the creature correctly completes the form, and the form disappears. On a failure, it must repeat this action on its next turn. While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, you cannot make weapon attacks against that creature. Impertinence is unbecoming of you.
    While a creature is in the process of filling out the form, your Rage can only be ended early if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it.


    Is Formulated Rage still too strong? I know that it doesn't follow the normal standard of design for 5e (a saving throw to negate an effect at the end of each round), but there are at least few spells that require checks instead of saves. If the check was changed from a contested Intelligence check to a contested Wisdom check, it would bring the power level down and still make sense thematically, but I have yet to come up with a good way to restructure the ability to use saving throws without nerfing it into the ground. Any thoughts?
    My biggest issue with it right now is that there is no way for them to prevent it from the beginning. When you use this ability, you guarantee that you shut down a creature for 1 round, which can make a gigantic difference in a single fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Probably needs a rebalance and it's further afield from the theme than I usually do (Ironically, it would have been better last contest), but it was on my to-make list already. The Constellar Fighter is written for a first draft at least!

    I'm sorry I haven't given any feedback this cycle. I either started running or playing in several new games since this one went up, and a lot of my creativity has gone into that lately. I've hit a routine with all of those (hopefully) now, though, and should be able to be more active next contest.
    Spoiler: Martial Archetype: The Constellar
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    Astronomers tools don't actually exist in 5e, so you may want to define them with their weight and cost and such.

    Constellar Technique - That's pretty harsh that it uses you action surge, considering just how good action surge it. However, as long as the power of these is decent then it will probably be fine.

    It seemed like level 3 was pretty front loaded at first, but while looking at it more it's seem fine.

    Armor Etching - Technically this allows the PC to etch it on armor or a shield then give it to someone else (you can also do this for a . Is this on purpose? Also, you should mention in here that you still only get one use of the etching. As I was reading it, I was thinking you could do 1 weapon and 1 armor. However, in read further the 15th levle ability lets you do that.

    Convergence Signs - This skill is pretty meh in my mind personally. I can get opposing signs by doing an ally of an ally already if I want ti badly enough. Something else would be nice here.

    Improved Constellar Techniques - This ability is kind of not exciting for a capstone. You get one more use of a power that you have already been using for a long time with action surges. Also, 1 more use per long rest is even less exciting when you are getting your 2 uses of action surge back with a short rest. I would re-consider this ability, or at least give it back at the end of a short rest instead of a long one.

    -For Weapon on the judge, do you round up or down for force damage?
    -Armor on the emperor, does that stack with Defensive fighting style?-
    -Weapon on the Siblings, may want to make this not stack with advantage. It's a huge boon with SS or GWM (especially archery style, advantage, a magic weapon, and SS). I would abuse the heck out of this.
    -Constellar Technique on the Siblings is really, really abusable by a Rogue/Fighter multiclass. So, so many sneak attacks with an archer.
    -Constellar Technique on the Gambler is not worth it. A single attack at advantage at the cost of an action surge? I don't think I would ever bother.

    Overall I like the subclass, there are a lot of good things going on here. For the most part I have questions, but a few other comments.





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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    My biggest issue with it right now is that there is no way for them to prevent it from the beginning. When you use this ability, you guarantee that you shut down a creature for 1 round, which can make a gigantic difference in a single fight.
    Mmmm, valid point. Thinking about it on those terms, it's pretty similar to the spell Phantasmal Force. So a change to: save on activation and then a skill check to get rid of; probably make it a Wisdom save since it's still pretty strong and collectively, monsters have much higher Wisdom than Intelligence.

    Barbarian Primal Path: Path of the Bureaucrat

    I updated it. Thanks nickl_2000, I always look forward to your input, and had had a bit of homebrewer's block on how to fix it.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAsWritten View Post
    Mmmm, valid point. Thinking about it on those terms, it's pretty similar to the spell Phantasmal Force. So a change to: save on activation and then a skill check to get rid of; probably make it a Wisdom save since it's still pretty strong and collectively, monsters have much higher Wisdom than Intelligence.

    Barbarian Primal Path: Path of the Bureaucrat

    I updated it. Thanks nickl_2000, I always look forward to your input, and had had a bit of homebrewer's block on how to fix it.
    That works perfectly me

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Spoiler: Martial Archetype: The Constellar
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    Astronomers tools don't actually exist in 5e, so you may want to define them with their weight and cost and such.

    Constellar Technique - That's pretty harsh that it uses you action surge, considering just how good action surge it. However, as long as the power of these is decent then it will probably be fine.

    It seemed like level 3 was pretty front loaded at first, but while looking at it more it's seem fine.

    Armor Etching - Technically this allows the PC to etch it on armor or a shield then give it to someone else (you can also do this for a . Is this on purpose? Also, you should mention in here that you still only get one use of the etching. As I was reading it, I was thinking you could do 1 weapon and 1 armor. However, in read further the 15th levle ability lets you do that.

    Convergence Signs - This skill is pretty meh in my mind personally. I can get opposing signs by doing an ally of an ally already if I want ti badly enough. Something else would be nice here.

    Improved Constellar Techniques - This ability is kind of not exciting for a capstone. You get one more use of a power that you have already been using for a long time with action surges. Also, 1 more use per long rest is even less exciting when you are getting your 2 uses of action surge back with a short rest. I would re-consider this ability, or at least give it back at the end of a short rest instead of a long one.

    -For Weapon on the judge, do you round up or down for force damage?
    -Armor on the emperor, does that stack with Defensive fighting style?-
    -Weapon on the Siblings, may want to make this not stack with advantage. It's a huge boon with SS or GWM (especially archery style, advantage, a magic weapon, and SS). I would abuse the heck out of this.
    -Constellar Technique on the Siblings is really, really abusable by a Rogue/Fighter multiclass. So, so many sneak attacks with an archer.
    -Constellar Technique on the Gambler is not worth it. A single attack at advantage at the cost of an action surge? I don't think I would ever bother.

    Overall I like the subclass, there are a lot of good things going on here. For the most part I have questions, but a few other comments.
    Spoiler: Feedback response
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    I could have sworn they existed. I'll add a weight and cost here.

    Armor Etching is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor as soon as it's gained. Dual Etching at 15 is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor + (Weapon or Armor). I'll try to fix the wording.

    I'll add something bigger in addition to Convergence Signs but I will note that you only learn 4 signs naturally (2 to start, +1 at 7 and again at 15), and there are 8 total signs, so you can't get any sign and its opposite through other means besides Convergence Signs. (If you started with The Hunter/The Soldier, you'd only be able to reach The Judge using the normal signs learned). That said this is still a pretty weak feature for level 10 and I'll come up with something in the next two days to hopefully make it stronger.

    Improved Constellar Techniques At this point I wasn't sure what else to give the class. I considered introducing a stronger version of each technique, but there's already a lot going on with each sign. I could bump this up to short rest recovery though.

    Armor for the Emperor does stack with Defensive fighting style, but not with magic equipment. I'm not sure what you mean for Weapon on the Siblings and advantage (do you mean The Gambler?). I may change this to granting allies the bonus instead though (similar to Wolf Totem Barbarian, but +1 instead of advantage).

    Technique: Siblings Yeah I wrote this all in one big chunk and didn't really do a balance pass to consider multiclass yet. I wasn't satisfied with the longer duration on this effect anyway, I'd rather limit the techniques to short-duration effects.
    Technique: Gambler I wanted to be cautious, since the main use for this is forcing an enemy to attack another enemy, and a lot of enemies have much bigger damage dice than player characters. When you get it at level 3, it matches Action Surge (1 extra attack) and is actually slightly better because of Advantage, though against large groups of weak enemies you'd probably still use the baseline AS. At level 5, it's not quite as good as AS by itself but the Advantage and potential for larger damage makes it situationally better. At level 11 (Extra Attack 2), you can get two such attacks, potentially having both with advantage, keeping it situational (though for level 10 it's once again strictly better). Level 20 is the only level where I'd say that AS is strictly better, and even there if you're fighting at least two monsters and at least one of them has an attack that does more average damage than two of yours, this is better. I'll remove the restriction on focusing on one target to make this a little more palatable.



    Thanks for feedback even though I posted with like...three days to go!
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Spoiler: Feedback response
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    I could have sworn they existed. I'll add a weight and cost here.

    Armor Etching is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor as soon as it's gained. Dual Etching at 15 is supposed to allow Weapon + Armor + (Weapon or Armor). I'll try to fix the wording.

    I'll add something bigger in addition to Convergence Signs but I will note that you only learn 4 signs naturally (2 to start, +1 at 7 and again at 15), and there are 8 total signs, so you can't get any sign and its opposite through other means besides Convergence Signs. (If you started with The Hunter/The Soldier, you'd only be able to reach The Judge using the normal signs learned). That said this is still a pretty weak feature for level 10 and I'll come up with something in the next two days to hopefully make it stronger.

    Improved Constellar Techniques At this point I wasn't sure what else to give the class. I considered introducing a stronger version of each technique, but there's already a lot going on with each sign. I could bump this up to short rest recovery though.

    Armor for the Emperor does stack with Defensive fighting style, but not with magic equipment. I'm not sure what you mean for Weapon on the Siblings and advantage (do you mean The Gambler?). I may change this to granting allies the bonus instead though (similar to Wolf Totem Barbarian, but +1 instead of advantage).

    Technique: Siblings Yeah I wrote this all in one big chunk and didn't really do a balance pass to consider multiclass yet. I wasn't satisfied with the longer duration on this effect anyway, I'd rather limit the techniques to short-duration effects.
    Technique: Gambler I wanted to be cautious, since the main use for this is forcing an enemy to attack another enemy, and a lot of enemies have much bigger damage dice than player characters. When you get it at level 3, it matches Action Surge (1 extra attack) and is actually slightly better because of Advantage, though against large groups of weak enemies you'd probably still use the baseline AS. At level 5, it's not quite as good as AS by itself but the Advantage and potential for larger damage makes it situationally better. At level 11 (Extra Attack 2), you can get two such attacks, potentially having both with advantage, keeping it situational (though for level 10 it's once again strictly better). Level 20 is the only level where I'd say that AS is strictly better, and even there if you're fighting at least two monsters and at least one of them has an attack that does more average damage than two of yours, this is better. I'll remove the restriction on focusing on one target to make this a little more palatable.



    Thanks for feedback even though I posted with like...three days to go!
    For the weapon, I meant the siblings. You are giving a +1 to hit, which can stack with magical bonuses and advantage. Add onto that +2 to hit with archery fighting style and you can get a massive, massive bonus to hit.

    For the gambler I totally misunderstood what was happening there. You should clarify that you are forcing an enemy to attack another enemy. I was just thinking that you were just giving your ally advantage on an attack against an enemy. That completely changes this ability to me. Yes, it is certainly worth it at this point!


    I apologize for not understanding everything, I was trying to get comments out quickly and clearly misunderstood some of the abilities. You've got a great start going though!

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    For the weapon, I meant the siblings. You are giving a +1 to hit, which can stack with magical bonuses and advantage. Add onto that +2 to hit with archery fighting style and you can get a massive, massive bonus to hit.

    For the gambler I totally misunderstood what was happening there. You should clarify that you are forcing an enemy to attack another enemy. I was just thinking that you were just giving your ally advantage on an attack against an enemy. That completely changes this ability to me. Yes, it is certainly worth it at this point!


    I apologize for not understanding everything, I was trying to get comments out quickly and clearly misunderstood some of the abilities. You've got a great start going though!
    I changed the siblings. It now is 1/round advantage with the same conditions. I also changed their Technique, though I'm still not perfectly happy with it (it's basically a different version of the Emperor's).
    I changed the "if both creatures are allied" to "if both creatures are hostile to you" in the Gambler to draw attention to the fact that it can (and indeed is encouraged) to be used on hostiles. Technically this is also a slight buff in situations where there are two different groups of bad guys fighting you, but that fits the theme of The Gambler anyway.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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  17. - Top - End - #1187
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    I changed the siblings. It now is 1/round advantage with the same conditions. I also changed their Technique, though I'm still not perfectly happy with it (it's basically a different version of the Emperor's).
    I changed the "if both creatures are allied" to "if both creatures are hostile to you" in the Gambler to draw attention to the fact that it can (and indeed is encouraged) to be used on hostiles. Technically this is also a slight buff in situations where there are two different groups of bad guys fighting you, but that fits the theme of The Gambler anyway.
    I think the issue for me is the clarity of the first sentence. Instead of "A single creature you can see within 30 feet makes a weapon attack against another creature within its range which you can see"

    "You force a single creature you can see..." This has the action (action as in verb, not D&D action) in there making it clear that you are making someone do something against their will.

  18. - Top - End - #1188
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Not sure I'm a big fan of the time increasing/decreasing on the casting of the spells. It's an added complication I wouldn't want to deal with as a DM, but that is just me.
    And most of the time it wouldn't be relevant: you'd either have the time to read it or you wouldn't. It's there for the odd situation where timing is relevant, but I think it's safely ignored.

    Scroll of Instruction - This one seems broken to me. A second level spell that gives proficiency with a skill for 10 days?
    A few points:
    • The scroll itself lasts 10 days (if you don't use it) but the spell ends when the scroll is read, and the proficiency only lasts 24 hours. Most of these spells work this way, with the duration being the "shelf life" of the scroll while the duration of the buff/debuff is noted in the spell description.
    • The scroll can only grant proficiency in a skill, tool, or language you are already proficient in, so it's entirely a way to buff an ally, it's useless on yourself. And even then you're only allowing that ally to help cover a skill/tool you already are good at, or a language you can already translate. For the vast majority of skills/tools that puts this solidly in the "very situational" category. The outliers here are Stealth and Perception, where it's always good to have everyone on the team up to par, but even there the spell compares poorly to a spell like Enhance Ability, which is much more versatile and powerful. The main benefit of the scroll by comparison is that it can be "pre-cast" using the slots from the day before and the buff itself lasts a whole day.
    • The spell also consumes 10 gp. That's a token cost, but it's enough to make you pause and think about whether or not you really need to spend your slots making scrolls before you go to bed or not.
    • The long casting time means if you don't already have one of them on you when you need it, you probably don't have the time to cast it, and you have to pick the skill/tool/language at the time of casting. That means it's not useful for unexpected situations, further narrowing its niche.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    And most of the time it wouldn't be relevant: you'd either have the time to read it or you wouldn't. It's there for the odd situation where timing is relevant, but I think it's safely ignored.



    A few points:
    • The scroll itself lasts 10 days (if you don't use it) but the spell ends when the scroll is read, and the proficiency only lasts 24 hours. Most of these spells work this way, with the duration being the "shelf life" of the scroll while the duration of the buff/debuff is noted in the spell description.
    • The scroll can only grant proficiency in a skill, tool, or language you are already proficient in, so it's entirely a way to buff an ally, it's useless on yourself. And even then you're only allowing that ally to help cover a skill/tool you already are good at, or a language you can already translate. For the vast majority of skills/tools that puts this solidly in the "very situational" category. The outliers here are Stealth and Perception, where it's always good to have everyone on the team up to par, but even there the spell compares poorly to a spell like Enhance Ability, which is much more versatile and powerful. The main benefit of the scroll by comparison is that it can be "pre-cast" using the slots from the day before and the buff itself lasts a whole day.
    • The spell also consumes 10 gp. That's a token cost, but it's enough to make you pause and think about whether or not you really need to spend your slots making scrolls before you go to bed or not.
    • The long casting time means if you don't already have one of them on you when you need it, you probably don't have the time to cast it, and you have to pick the skill/tool/language at the time of casting. That means it's not useful for unexpected situations, further narrowing its niche.

    I was completely and utterly confused by the spell and misreading it, after you explained all this I withdraw my complaint. With the duration of 10 days, I thought that mean you get the skill for 10 days and missed reading a lot of the words.

  20. - Top - End - #1190
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

    Voting thread for Contest XV is up now!

    https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...6#post24528746
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

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