D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[sengmeng]

Pilferer adjusted:

Frisk unchanged.

Sticky fingers includes a spoilered copy of the guidance from the DMG on how to resolve disarm attempts, and a caveat that however it's decided, you gain advantage if there is a d20 roll.

"Borrow" Weapon unchanged.

Hijack Attunement stipulates that the magic item must be in your hands, attuned to someone else, and that it breaks the other person's attunement.

Steal Life now only activates when an opponent is dropped to 0 hitpoints and is limited to the number of hitpoints they had prior to the attack, but can heal you above your max, giving you temporary hitpoints.

[SleeplessWriter]

Hm. I like the domain so far, but Holy Brawler is a little overpowered as is. Aside from being able to add your wisdom modifier four times by only dipping a single level of the domain with a fifth level monk, it also is a pretty hefty boost to a first level character. Variant Human + Point Buy + Tavern Brawler is a potent first level character. 16 strength and wisdom gives a 1d4+6 punch and a bonus action grapple with a +8 from being proficient in athletics (the skill you pick up from being a variant human). You'll be making the barbarian look bad for the first few levels at least. I'd probably put a cap on how many times you can use it, maybe just once a turn to stop monk multiclass shenanigans at the least. Otherwise, I really like the subclass, bravo.

And as for the ki costs of the Bar Brawlers abilities, yeah, it was just supposed to be the level three abilities and the level 13 knockout ability, which is basically the monks stunning strike with a few more restrictions and a little more oomph to it on a crit. I'll make that more clear.
I made the improvised weapon break on the crits to make the choice of whether or not to use it a little tougher, while also encouraging the use of Take a Swipe at 'em to pick up replacement weapons. Should I extend the improvised weapon breaking to every time the ability is used instead of just crits, or should I drop the boost on crits altogether?

[Ivellius]

Hm. I like the domain so far, but Holy Brawler is a little overpowered as is. Aside from being able to add your wisdom modifier four times by only dipping a single level of the domain with a fifth level monk, it also is a pretty hefty boost to a first level character. Variant Human + Point Buy + Tavern Brawler is a potent first level character. 16 strength and wisdom gives a 1d4+6 punch and a bonus action grapple with a +8 from being proficient in athletics (the skill you pick up from being a variant human). You'll be making the barbarian look bad for the first few levels at least. I'd probably put a cap on how many times you can use it, maybe just once a turn to stop monk multiclass shenanigans at the least. Otherwise, I really like the subclass, bravo.

Hm...the basic intention is to keep it on a curve with a weapon, and doing it in such a way that was a bit different from other options (like just upping the damage dice). I don't really consider optional rules in my creations, no matter how common they are (so none of multiclassing / variant human / feats), but in this case those are common enough that it's probably worth redoing. I'll ponder overnight. Thanks for the feedback.

[nickl_2000]

Hey, voting starts today, doesn't it. This is going to be a hard one, there are a lot of really good choices out there.

[Ivellius]

Probably!

I did tweak the Strength Domain a bit, though I think rearranging the features might've been a good idea. Mainly I'm just a little sad that Amonkhet already did one, even if it's not that good, so I needed to find different features at a spot or two.

[Vogie]

Probably!

I did tweak the Strength Domain a bit, though I think rearranging the features might've been a good idea. Mainly I'm just a little sad that Amonkhet already did one, even if it's not that good, so I needed to find different features at a spot or two.

Did you mean to not make the unarmed attack a die roll? If I'm reading it correctly, each unarmed strike is STR + prof to attack, and deals WIS+STR damage

[MoleMage]

Too late! Voting thread is up now, cease edits.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...9#post23700219

Two weeks, go vote!

[Vogie]

Too late! Voting thread is up now, cease edits.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...9#post23700219

Two weeks, go vote!

Aw, you guys!!!! I didn't know I had a nickname!!! You all are the best.

"Evil the Cat" definitely sounds like a nickname my son would've made up for me, though.

[MoleMage]

Aw, you guys!!!! I didn't know I had a nickname!!! You all are the best.

"Evil the Cat" definitely sounds like a nickname my son would've made up for me, though.

There's always one artifact of my table copy-pasting. Always one.

[Ivellius]

Did you mean to not make the unarmed attack a die roll? If I'm reading it correctly, each unarmed strike is STR + prof to attack, and deals WIS+STR damage

I did. I'm not sure one point of damage is a die roll anyway, but this way you're overwriting Martial Arts even if you choose to use it.

The hardest thing about voting this round is I have to remind myself which Bard college was which.

[SleeplessWriter]

Guys, I just realized this, but the way I worded Knockout means it'll work with ranged improvised weapons. Which means you could probably knock a dragon out of the air with a spoon... I love it.

It probably isn't too much of a problem, though, since it is a 13th level ability and not 5th like the monk's stunning strike, but it's just something I hadn't thought about when I made the ability.

[MoleMage]

Only a few days left to vote on the current contest!

[MoleMage]

Alright everyone, our voting period has ended and it is time to tally the results!

In 3rd place, with 7 voting points, we have SleeplessWriter's Bar Brawler Rogue. For when you really need to hit someone with, then run off with, a table.

In 2nd place, with 8 voting points, we have Vogie's Master Hand Patron. For when your eldritch master is a giant floating hand with a propensity for playing with Nintendo figurines, and they taught you to do the same.

In 1st place, also with 8 voting points, we have nickl_2000's Bardic College of the Luchador! Wear a mask and wrestle some baddies in style, all while talking the best trash ever seen in DnD, because you're a bard!

The tie for 1st place was broken because Vogie did not submit a vote before the tallying of results. If he had, the next tiebreaker is number of 1st place votes. There is no third tiebreaker, the tie would have just stood in that case.

In the voting for theme, we have a clear winner in Well, That's Fortunate and for the third consecutive contest we have a tie for runner up. Subsystems Online will pass automatically into the next voting pool yet again, while Keep it Simple, Stupid was upstaged by It Is Written for the runner-up and so look for Subsystems Online and It Is Written in the next contest's voting pool!

Thanks everyone for playing, and the new thread should be up shortly!

Voting has concluded. The next contest can be found here. Good luck!

[Ivellius]

I...kind of want to do a leprechaun patron now.

Hm, I had a bunch of DM's Guild stuff on this theme already, so nothing else immediately comes to mind. I must ponder...

[MoleMage]

I...kind of want to do a leprechaun patron now.

Hm, I had a bunch of DM's Guild stuff on this theme already, so nothing else immediately comes to mind. I must ponder...

I've made it my habit to try to make at least one of the suggested themes somewhat esoteric. I actually made Oath of the Sacred fist because I came up with the idea of punchadin when setting up the last contest.

[theVoidWatches]

Just posted a quick first pass (with very little flavor as of yet) of a luck-based rogue. The idea is basically that their roguish talents (sneak attack, expertise, etc) are coming not from their skill, but from unnatural levels of luck. They can spread that luck around a little bit too - granting Luck Points to their friends (and later to themselves), and while they're doing so their sneak attack damage is reduced.

So, they get this not-quite-Bardic-Inspiration, they get Jack of All Trades by another name, and they get to speak all languages as the 13th-level mostly-a-ribbon feature (but, for flavor reasons, they're just bungling through with luck and miming, so it takes them twice as long as usual to speak).

Beginning at 9th level they can (if they have a bonus action available every turn) give themselves a +5 bonus to their one attack every round - but, of course, that also means their sneak attack bonus is down by 5d6 (which is ALL of their sneak attack, at that level). Plus, using Luck Points doesn't let you use Sneak Attack if you couldn't already.

Honestly I feel like this is a little underpowered, but I didn't want to just crib Bardic Inspiration completely, for this. Ah well, it's a first draft and took maybe half an hour to conception to posting. Might rewrite it entirely later.

---

Also, congratulations to nickl! But, um, ouch, not a single vote for my College of the Fist. It was mechanically boring, I admit, but still, was it really that bad?

[Unavenger]

Lucky number 7 - seems appropriate!

I admit to having no idea what, if anything, I'll do for this one. But, we'll see...

[nickl_2000]

Thanks for the votes all and placing me in first . I was really hoping that the College of the Luchador would land well with others as it was a fun one to write.

There is the first (second maybe) draft of the Barbarian Path of Dumb Luck http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...13&postcount=3 Feel free to throw anything my way that seems off. Although, it will have a few more revisions before I'm actually happy, and need a bunch of flavour.

[Ivellius]

Thanks for the votes all and placing me in first . I was really hoping that the College of the Luchador would land well with others as it was a fun one to write.

There is the first (second maybe) draft of the Barbarian Path of Dumb Luck http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...13&postcount=3 Feel free to throw anything my way that seems off. Although, it will have a few more revisions before I'm actually happy, and need a bunch of flavour.

Impact Calibration's upgrade needs to be named Percussive Maintenance, if you ask me.

[nickl_2000]

Impact Calibration's upgrade needs to be named Percussive Maintenance, if you ask me.

Genius. All fixed! :)

[SleeplessWriter]

Gonna throw my hat into the ring with another luck based rogue, except this one is more focused on stealing luck for themselves instead of granting it to allies. Probably going to theme it as if they're stealing strands of thread from the loom of fate. Essentially dealing out a debuff with their sneak attack that fuels their self buffing and other abilities.

[nickl_2000]

Just posted a quick first pass (with very little flavor as of yet) of a luck-based rogue. The idea is basically that their roguish talents (sneak attack, expertise, etc) are coming not from their skill, but from unnatural levels of luck. They can spread that luck around a little bit too - granting Luck Points to their friends (and later to themselves), and while they're doing so their sneak attack damage is reduced.

So, they get this not-quite-Bardic-Inspiration, they get Jack of All Trades by another name, and they get to speak all languages as the 13th-level mostly-a-ribbon feature (but, for flavor reasons, they're just bungling through with luck and miming, so it takes them twice as long as usual to speak).

Beginning at 9th level they can (if they have a bonus action available every turn) give themselves a +5 bonus to their one attack every round - but, of course, that also means their sneak attack bonus is down by 5d6 (which is ALL of their sneak attack, at that level). Plus, using Luck Points doesn't let you use Sneak Attack if you couldn't already.

Honestly I feel like this is a little underpowered, but I didn't want to just crib Bardic Inspiration completely, for this. Ah well, it's a first draft and took maybe half an hour to conception to posting. Might rewrite it entirely later.

---

Also, congratulations to nickl! But, um, ouch, not a single vote for my College of the Fist. It was mechanically boring, I admit, but still, was it really that bad?

First of all, thanks.

I checked out your new subclass, I hope you wanted comments. If not please feel free to ignore.

Luck Points - This definitely needs to have
you may grant a number of Luck Points less than or equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)
on there. Since charisma is sometimes a dump stat for rogues, you would need at least that. Also, at what point are you allowed to spend them? Before you roll, after but before you know the results?

Luck in all Trades - For some reason I feel like this should be something like I'd rather be lucky than good and instead of give half-proficiency have it give a bonus die whenever you roll something you aren't proficient (that grows as you level). That way there is still a chance aspect in how much you get. But that is just a feeling for me.

Fool's Luck - I'm not sure why you wouldn't spend your bonus action almost every turn here to give yourself charisma mod luck points (say 3), then give yourself +6 to hit on your attack and not lose out on any damage. They would be pretty brutal to bounded accuracy.

[theVoidWatches]

No no, I always want feedback!

Luck Points - This definitely needs to have
you may grant a number of Luck Points less than or equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)
on there. Since charisma is sometimes a dump stat for rogues, you would need at least that. Also, at what point are you allowed to spend them? Before you roll, after but before you know the results?

Good catch, fixed up.

Luck in all Trades - For some reason I feel like this should be something like I'd rather be lucky than good and instead of give half-proficiency have it give a bonus die whenever you roll something you aren't proficient (that grows as you level). That way there is still a chance aspect in how much you get. But that is just a feeling for me.

You're right, that is much more thematic. I'll start it at a d4 and let it upgrade to a d6 and then d8, every ~7 levels.

Fool's Luck - I'm not sure why you wouldn't spend your bonus action almost every turn here to give yourself charisma mod luck points (say 3), then give yourself +6 to hit on your attack and not lose out on any damage. They would be pretty brutal to bounded accuracy.

I think you may be misunderstanding. It's not a +1 for every individual Luck Point you spend, it's a +1 each time you spend them in general - and you can't spend them in bits and pieces. So if you spend 3 Luck Points each time, you're getting a +4 each time, not a +6. Similarly, the +1d6 damage is after the reduction for Luck Points being spent, so in this 3 Luck Points a turn scenario, you're still dropping your Sneak Attack damage by 2d6.
So, what this actually does is you can spend your bonus action every turn to give yourself 1 Luck Point and then spend your reaction to get a +2 to attack if you need it, without sacrificing any Sneak Attack damage (if you haven't given any Luck to your friends, that is).

Which, written out like that, seems kind of weak in comparison's to the Assassin's "I'm gonna deal quadruple damage this time" and the thief's "I'm gonna steal the fighter's Action Surge for this first round". Spending your Bonus Action and reaction for a measly +2? I might change the damage thing to "You gain +1 damage to your weapon attacks for each Luck Point you are currently granting" instead, and maybe let the additional +1 apply to anyone who spends the Luck Points you're giving them.

[Icecaster]

I had to take a break from the forums for a while, so sorry I didn't participate anymore in the last contest

I saw the theme yesterday, though, and I was struck with a bit of inspiration. I hope my vision came through in the Paladin: Oath of Fortune. There's obviously some references to The Gambler in it I considered a gambler bard, but decided I liked the tenets being lyrics better. I also considered a wizard who used transmutation to make lucky charms, but couldn't think of enough good features for it.

I'd also like to review things again soon, once there are some more submissions up.

[nickl_2000]

I had to take a break from the forums for a while, so sorry I didn't participate anymore in the last contest

I saw the theme yesterday, though, and I was struck with a bit of inspiration. I hope my vision came through in the Paladin: Oath of Fortune. There's obviously some references to The Gambler in it I considered a gambler bard, but decided I liked the tenets being lyrics better. I also considered a wizard who used transmutation to make lucky charms, but couldn't think of enough good features for it.

I'd also like to review things again soon, once there are some more submissions up.

Looks cool, I will try and give feedback tomorrow sometime. The first thing I was thinking about for this was a two-face type Paladin character, with the oath of chance. I just couldn't figure out how to make it work.

[Man_Over_Game]

Looks cool, I will try and give feedback tomorrow sometime. The first thing I was thinking about for this was a two-face type Paladin character, with the oath of chance. I just couldn't figure out how to make it work.

I'd tie it in with the Channel Divinities. Since you can only use one by default anyway, it's basically a 50/50 chance as to which one you may need. Then just tie in some kind of long-term benefit that is associated with that "face"

Some ideas:

Life: As a Bonus Action, you emit an aura of holy pacification. To you and creatures adjacent to you, damage dealt and received is halved. This benefit lasts 1 minute.
vs.
Death: As a Bonus Action, you emit an aura of inevitable mortality. For the next minute, you and creatures within 15 feet reroll all damage they receive, keeping the higher of the two rolls.

Level 7: When a creature within 10 feet of you dies, or is hit by a Critical Hit, you gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to half of your Paladin level and regain the use of your Channel Divinity.
At 18th level, this extends to 30 feet.

And then just tack on some high level stuff that makes sense.

[nickl_2000]

I'd tie it in with the Channel Divinities. Since you can only use one by default anyway, it's basically a 50/50 chance as to which one you may need. Then just tie in some kind of long-term benefit that is associated with that "face"

Some ideas:

Life: As a Bonus Action, you emit an aura of holy pacification. To you and creatures adjacent to you, damage dealt and received is halved. This benefit lasts 1 minute.
vs.
Death: As a Bonus Action, you emit an aura of inevitable mortality. For the next minute, you and creatures within 15 feet reroll all damage they receive, keeping the higher of the two rolls.

Level 7: When a creature within 10 feet of you dies, or is hit by a Critical Hit, you gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to half of your Paladin level and regain the use of your Channel Divinity.
At 18th level, this extends to 30 feet.

And then just tack on some high level stuff that makes sense.

Interesting, I will have to mull it over and let it run around in my head for a future homebrew. I like the idea of a Paladin based on two face, he really is committed to his tenants (even when it is detrimental to himself). It really would fit into a chaotic neutral subclass.

[nickl_2000]

Spoiler: Oath of Fortune

Show

Oath of Fortune Spells - I'm not sure on a few of the spells.
Shield - seems like it is to powerful and to easy to get it.
and there are a bunch of other ones that didn't seem to fit in to me. I know when I was starting the Oath of Luck I looked at these spells myself.
Oath of Luck Spells
3rd - Bane, Bless
5th - Aid, Mirror Image
9th - Bestow Curse, Remove Curse
13th - Compulsion, Death Ward
17th - Contagion, Mislead

Shield of Fortune. - Consider that the way this is written you can use this, shield of faith, and shield. So by level 3 you are looking at a possible AC of 24 (splint +shield+defensive fighting style+ shield of faith + divinity) and then you can use a shield spell to get to 29 if you need it. This is almost silly powerful even at higher levels
Lucky Break - I might actually adjust this to be a 1d10 or 1d12. It makes it more chancy, but I don't think it is broken as is.

Fortune’s Favored - This is pretty unusual for a Paladin. It's a common design pattern with the X's and PhB Paladins to give oath spells and channel divinity at level 3. I would drop this entirely personally.

Kismet - Okay, completely gut feeling here. However I'm worried that this would break the bounded accuracy model and you would never again fail a saving throw in your carrier. I would look at some other level 1 spells that would be fitting. Detect Poison and Disease, Expeditious Retreat, or do something else entirely. Maybe take the halfing luck skill?

Perfect Luck - Look to tone this down some. The crit point seems powerful but fine. The +3 to AC combined with your other skills and spells is a little much, and an automatic roll of 12 seems like a little much. Maybe if you change out the shield spell and shield of fortune you can just do the +3 to AC and increased crit chance.

Spoiler: Sorcerous Origin: Fate Sorcery

Show

Twist of Fate: There is a little awkwardness in the description of how you regain this ability. It took a few readings. The only problem I see with it is enemies having disadvantage when you are attacked. I know your AC will only be 15 (or 17 with a multiclass where you can get a shield), but it still feels off to me.

Predicted Spell - An interesting ability here. I feel like it should have a cost of a reaction to do it. That way you can only do it once per turn. That being said, is 2 SP enough to be able to force a failed save on a spell? My gut says it would be better as a reaction and costing 3 SP, but feel free to ignore my gut on this one.

Quantum Feedback - I'm confused on how this one works. When you use the reaction you target the person who hit you and do no damage to them with the spell? I think this one needs some clarity on how it works and what it does.

Chosen Outcome - Likely very powerful, but at level 18 it should be.

Spoiler: Otherworldly Patron: The Fatekeeper

Show

Expanded Spell List
Crusader's Mantle is a 3rd level spell, but put into the second level slot. Was that intentional?

Destiny’s Curse - Not sure why you have the "you can use this feature after you see the roll....". From reading the rest of the ability it appears that you use a bonus action and then it automatically applies. If that is the case, that isn't needed at all. From an ability perspective I really like this. It's powerful and gives you an active thing to do. However, it will be very, very swingy (which is very fitting for the subclass).

Fortune’s Blessing - You can remove the "a willing creature part" I don't think any creature will ever be not willing to get hit less or get better saves. Although it is a little weirdly phrased in that is reduces the attack roll of someone against the person you used it on. I may actually have it add 1d8 to the AC so that the person you use it on is always the one that is effected.

Fate’s Servant - Is this supposed to be Destiny's curse? You have "Whenever a creature affected by your Destiny’s Blessing feature"

Doom’s Verdict - I actually think this in underpowered for a capstone. You are giving advantage on all attack rolls against a creature for 1 round only. I would either increase the amount of uses to be based on charisma or make it last charisma mod rounds instead of one.

Phew, I think I am caught up

[Vogie]

I am NOT throwing away... my... shot!

The Longshot Ranger is up. With an interesting, variable expanded crit range, thrown build support, supernatural reflexes, and the ability to steal advantage from your foes, You can emulate any number of of incredibly lucky warriors.

[Man_Over_Game]

Spoiler: Sorcerous Origin: Fate Sorcery

Show

Twist of Fate: There is a little awkwardness in the description of how you regain this ability. It took a few readings. The only problem I see with it is enemies having disadvantage when you are attacked. I know your AC will only be 15 (or 17 with a multiclass where you can get a shield), but it still feels off to me.

Predicted Spell - An interesting ability here. I feel like it should have a cost of a reaction to do it. That way you can only do it once per turn. That being said, is 2 SP enough to be able to force a failed save on a spell? My gut says it would be better as a reaction and costing 3 SP, but feel free to ignore my gut on this one.

Quantum Feedback - I'm confused on how this one works. When you use the reaction you target the person who hit you and do no damage to them with the spell? I think this one needs some clarity on how it works and what it does.

Chosen Outcome - Likely very powerful, but at level 18 it should be.

Thanks for the look-over.

Twist of Fate:
ToF's armor effect is actually designed to work off of the Shield spell, and to also discourage/encourage certain multiclassing combinations.

It synergizing with Shield isn't overpowered as a multiclassing choice, due to the fact that Shield works best on characters who have lots of armor (and you can't with the ToF protection).

As a squishy caster, ToF's protection with Shield competes with Quantum Feedback in regards to the Reaction. As a result, you have to choose between taking the hit (and countering with an even worse attack), or being nigh-indestructible for the turn, but you can't get both.

It is a bit awkward for the recharge, maybe I'll just limit it to one clause (like if the Sorcerer witnesses a creature being attacked with a Critical Hit).

Predicted Spell:
Adding a Reaction to Predicted Spell would not only put a lot of strain for your Reaction in the class, but it also would be redundant and not solve anything. You could not Quicken to cast two leveled spells in the same turn, and you cannot combine Predicted Spell with Quantum Feedback. Unless you want to force a Cantrip to roll a 10 or you're casting Twinned Spell and Predicted Spell for a 5 or so Sorcery cost, there'd be no situation where you could cast Predicted Spell twice in the same round.

It is a guaranteed 10, but most creatures are going to be rolling a 10 on average anyway, so this is most effective against high powered creatures with low saving throws. In most other circumstances, it'd be a waste.

Quantum Feedback:
It does need to be cleaned up some more. I think I'll just change it to casting a spell as a Reaction when you're hit. This is effectively an alternate form of deterrence when your low AC becomes a problem but can't afford to constantly spam Shield.

Chosen Outcome:
I agree. Most of the level 18 Sorcerer capstones are pretty big, so I wanted to follow that pattern. Now the Sorcerer can perform as a pseudo, high-risk support.