D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[Crisis21]

Spoiler: Fighter: Green Knight

Show

First thing is that it needs some flavour text in there. What is a green knight? What makes them special?

For Bonus Profs - you really don't need the "if they contain metal...." line. You can tighten it up by just saying "improvised weapon, containing no metal, and made from only..."

Overall you have A LOT going on at level 3. You get spellcaster/cantrips, enhanced shillelagh, learn Druidic, Prof in nature, Prof in Herbalism, and Prof in improvised weapons. Compare this to the other 1/3 casters. EK get spellcasting and weapon bond, AT gets spellcasting an Mage Hand Legimon (sp?). If you were to have only Enhanced Shillelagh it would be more on par with the design of the other 1/3 casters.

On the subject of Shillelagh, I personally would completely drop the armor/shield enhancement completely, it's an added complexity that I don't see a lot of people who are seeking to use this class focusing on. This weapon is on par or better than any martial weapon with Shillelagh at level 3 (not counting the +1 enhancement) and just gets better after that. That's enough.

Now onto level 7, here is a good time to give Druidic (that's pretty much just fluff) and proficiency/expertise in skills or the kit.


The biggest problem that I see as it is written is Nature's armory. You make all your weapons, armor and shields +2 magical items that last forever. You are looking at a natural AC of 24 not counting anything else that boosts you AC. That's pretty crazy high. Not only that, but given time to prepare you can do the same thing to your allies armor, weapons, and shields.

Some good suggestions. I'll tighten this up, probably remove the Improvised Weapons thing (a player who really wants that can just pick up Tavern Brawler).

I don't really consider Nature's Armory that powerful considering it's at level 18. By that point, most of your party is probably rocking some epic equipment anyway.

I will definitely start on some fluff for the subclass.

Edit: Done. No more improvised weapons, Herbalism kit only at 3rd. Druidic and option of Nature proficiency at 7th, with potential Expertise. Also took out some old Shillelagh description I forgot to remove on last update.

Fluff is added, painting the Green Knight as a man of two worlds, the world of nature and the world of civilization.


Also, I whipped up a Barbarian-themed archetype for the Sorcerer. Anyone want to see it? (This contest is giving me way too many ideas)

[Man_Over_Game]

My Views from what we have seen so far.

Spoiler: Barbarian- Path of the Pack Master

Show

I agree with you that this makes that beast to tanky. Take a Wolf at level 6 while you are raging. They get 26 HP, 17 AC, prof in ALL saves, resistance to ALL damage, all attacks are magical, and an ASI. That seems like just to much to me. Also, how does warding bond interact with your barbarian's natural resistance? Is it reduced by both the animal's resistance and then reduced more by yours? One other concern that I have is that the revised ranger beastmaster doesn't have 2 attacks, they have one and the beast has one. You should probably take away the barbarian's second attack for this so it doesn't end up getting silly powerful.

I agree that at level 6 all beast attacks should be magical, although I don't see any reason that your attacks should be. You can get a weapon just like a normal barbarian.

With guardian of the pack, I'm trying to get my head cannon around how this works. You reaction to someone taking damage (so the triggering event is that they have been hurt), if they are hurt badly enough you get to take that damage yourself. I'm just trying to figure out how this works in world, it seems kind of cludgy. From the ability itself, sure it seems fine, especially since it is a once a long rest ability.

On the attacks, that's not quite true. The Revised Ranger has its pet make an attack as a Reaction instead of getting Extra Attack. Ranger makes 1 attack and the beast makes 2, my Barbarian makes 2 attacks while his beast makes 1.



As for the Warding Bond mitigation, that is correct. Warding Bond mitigates the caster's damage just the same as any other damage. It is benefited from Heavy Armor Master, Rage, Vulnerabilities, and anything else. In this case, the 100% of the damage the beast takes now becomes 50% to the beast and 50% to the Barbarian, which then the Barbarian mitigates to 25%.

Effectively, damage to the beast ends up being 75% effective against weapons, which is designed to be a pseudo-Rage effect (considering Rage itself mitigates 50%). Consider that the Barbarian has no self-healing outside of hit dice, no Healing Spirit, no Goodberries, and the one resource he uses to heal himself is also the same resource he needs to conjure his Companion. While the beast is a bit tankier, I feel that it SHOULD be in order to compensate for the Barbarian's lack of sustainability.

As for the weapon, I think you're right. Making it only affect the beast should be okay. I was thinking that each Barbarian has some way of dealing with magical resistance, but I realize that's not at all true.

As to Guardian of the Pack, I know it's a bit odd, but consider things like the Shield spell, the Tomb of Levistus Invocation, or one of the Crown/Redemption Paladin damage absorption effects. Using a Reaction to take someone else's damage is possible, as is using a Reaction to prevent a specific, calculated scenario from occurring (as with Shield). In this case, it does both.


I'll keep looking into options for the survivability of the Beast, but I really like Warding Bond as a pseudo-Rage effect. If I can find the right wording, maybe I could have the Barbarian be able to "toggle" Warding Bond off to turn on the beast's magical damage.

[Fnissalot]

Added my rogue subclass Relic Grifter, my take on how a rogue would do divine magic. They wouldn't be devote and true believers... It is a weird mix between cleric domains, channel divinity and pact magic. In short, you prepare domains (relics) but every domain only gets one spell slot. You can prepare additional domains instead of just getting more spell slots. In practice, this gives them access to a lot of spells but they are very limited in how to use them.

Also, you can destroy a relic and remove your preparation for it to get access to its channel divinity.

I was first thinking that I would just give it access to the domain spell lists straight but I felt a bit cheap so I started writing my own modified versions of the domains for this subclass. I added three so far and will either add more or change back to just take the domain spell list and channel divinity straight from the clerics.

[theVoidWatches]

Posted my first draft of the skinwalker. It's basically what I planned it would be - they get wild shape (with the modification of needing to have a creature's skin, and having a favored form that they can take whenever), and at level 7 they can take the forms of non-beasts (but only once per dead creature).

[Bloodcloud]

I added my submission, digging back the geomancer from 3.5 and adapting it to 5e as a sorcerer subclass.

I tried to give abilities that gave either:
-Mobility
-Stealth
-Melee capacity/tankiness
-Perception

Level 18 is an elemental form, to mirror moon druid progression a bit too.

Very open to comments.

Notes: i’m a bit unsure of my fluff on the animal abilities, as i want to keep it open but that meakes describing the ability harder.
I recycled and remixed a lot of thing for the elemental forms. Really unsure of my balancing there.

[Crisis21]

Posted my first draft of the skinwalker. It's basically what I planned it would be - they get wild shape (with the modification of needing to have a creature's skin, and having a favored form that they can take whenever), and at level 7 they can take the forms of non-beasts (but only once per dead creature).

...I am officially tempted to make a serial killer using this subclass as an antagonist.

[nickl_2000]

Spoiler: Skinwalker

Show

First thing I like is that you give beast forms to the Skinwalker whether they have actually seen them in game or not. Although I would re-consider getting them at odd levels, because there will be a chance that the PC will get to level 6 and level 12 and get new CRs but not actually have a form in that CR. I would actually consider giving them a new form automatically at level 3, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 15,and 18 (this ends up being 1 less form overall, but it gives an additional form when you hit a new CR or gain a movement ability for the form). This is actually what my DM did in the game I am currently playing, and it worked out really well for the character.

I can see Monstrous form being a major issue in game. From reading it, you can turn into anything you level or lower. That means you can become humanoids and other types that could have special abilities and spell casting. What is the ruling on those? Do you get innate spell casting of a Pixie or other Fey you killed? Also I think the CR level of transformation is rife for problems. Being able to turn into a CR of 1 less than your level even for an hour is pretty darn strong (especially since you don't have the language barrier and intelligence barrier you run into with Polymorph). Can you imagine a level 11 character turning into a Gold Dragon or a Fire Giant? Or a level 7 character becoming a Medusa or Gorgon? You will end up taking over the party most of the time and being able to take on many encounters by yourself unless this is limited a little bit more.


I also think the thousand forms ability should be tossed out and replaced. Alter Self is a concentration spell, and even if you take the natural weapons option you are still better off with using Hunter's mark on a 1d8 weapon (1d10 averages 2 more damage than a 1d8, however 1d8 + 1d6 nets on average 1 more damage than 1d10). As for the aquatic and appearance options, when you need those you still have the spell available to you as a subclass spell so that will cover that. Overall this ability ends up being pretty a meh, especially for a capstone.

Spoiler: Relic Grifter

Show

As for mechanics, the swindling divinity seems a little wonky. So, at ninth level you have 2 relics. You can destroy one of them to use the channel divinity feature on the relic, that seems fine. The fact that you can't re-create the relic until you have channeled divinity on a different relic seems odd. I don't see the point of that. You have already hurt yourself in the fact that you can no longer cast spells from that relic until you make another, isn't that enough of a penalty on it's own?

Spoiler: Primal bloodline

Show

This is an interesting class, I think it would made for a very fun class to play from a roleplaying aspect. Especially since you are becoming more bestial as time goes on, yet you are still a sorcerer and your Charisma will continue to increase as time goes on.

In aspect of the beast the Clawed Hands breaks the standard of a gish slightly. Usually for full casters who get a second attack it happens at level 6 (see valor bard, swords bard, and bladesinger). I may also consider making these attacks magical at level 6 (or adding to your level 6 melee ability to make natural attacks magical).

In nature's boon it is pretty standard that flight requires you not wearing heavy armor.

Primal apotheosis - Water - The way this is phrased currently it is slightly abusable. I could move my full movement through a small space, make a spell touch attack or a set of melee attacks and then be forced to flow back through the space until I get back to a place I fit. Technically that is forced movement and therefore wouldn't provoke an AoO. This could be pretty easily be resolved by also adding in that the PC takes damage if they are expelled from a space they don't fit into.
-You can use your reaction to halve the damage from an attack and then you can move up to 30 feet without provoking opportunity attacks.
Make this up to your movement speed instead of 30 feet. That way if someone invested in mobile or something else to increase their speed they gain that advantage. And if they are encumbered or have reduced speed it isn't abusable.


I am a tiny bit concerned about the balance of the combination of Meta-magic and Druid spells (especially the extend option). That being said, I am really not sure what spells would end up being a problem, even after looking. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

Phew, caught up. Will watch for more and hopefully this time I won't get sick and have to stop like during the last contest and not be able to evaluate.

[Bloodcloud]

This is an interesting class, I think it would made for a very fun class to play from a roleplaying aspect. Especially since you are becoming more bestial as time goes on, yet you are still a sorcerer and your Charisma will continue to increase as time goes on.

In aspect of the beast the Clawed Hands breaks the standard of a gish slightly. Usually for full casters who get a second attack it happens at level 6 (see valor bard, swords bard, and bladesinger). I may also consider making these attacks magical at level 6 (or adding to your level 6 melee ability to make natural attacks magical).

In nature's boon it is pretty standard that flight requires you not wearing heavy armor.

Primal apotheosis - Water - The way this is phrased currently it is slightly abusable. I could move my full movement through a small space, make a spell touch attack or a set of melee attacks and then be forced to flow back through the space until I get back to a place I fit. Technically that is forced movement and therefore wouldn't provoke an AoO. This could be pretty easily be resolved by also adding in that the PC takes damage if they are expelled from a space they don't fit into.
-You can use your reaction to halve the damage from an attack and then you can move up to 30 feet without provoking opportunity attacks.
Make this up to your movement speed instead of 30 feet. That way if someone invested in mobile or something else to increase their speed they gain that advantage. And if they are encumbered or have reduced speed it isn't abusable.


I am a tiny bit concerned about the balance of the combination of Meta-magic and Druid spells (especially the extend option). That being said, I am really not sure what spells would end up being a problem, even after looking. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

So, regarding the spell list, I figure Wizard spell list is considered the "strong" one, and divine soul already played with the cleric list without any problem, I figure it should be fine.

Regarding the claws, I wanted it to follow the cantrip structure. It is not quite extra attack, as it does not apply to other weapon attack. Making the claw magic is however, a great idea.

Regarding primal apotheosis, I fully agree this needs more work. I cobbled it togheter a bit fast. Damage when expeled is a great idea.

Regarding the wings, I don't think any of the sorcerer subclass have any restriction on armor with them (and many get them!), so I don't see it as a problem. I'll add draconic verbiage on have an armor/clothe that accomodate them though.

[Bloodcloud]

Regarding the enlightened warrior... Focused strike is quite strong now! If you combo it with action surge, thats a lot of damage for very little ressource. At level 5, that's easily up to 12 more damage (assuming 16 wisdom), for a single ki point. Polearm master/sentinel might get another 3 out of the opportunity attack. A battlemaster, expanding his four superiority dice, gets an average of 18 damage out of them, and is then completely gassed out.

At 11, it's exploded. Now assuming we maxed strenght and put one more in wisdom. Combine focus and action surge, we are now at 6X4 for 24 damage. Battlemaster, 27.5, and again he is gassed out completely, while the enlightened has only spent a single ressource. He's got 10 more points! and he gets to do more thing than the battlemaster with them!

Fourth attack, second use of action surge, and maxing wisdom makes the enlightened warrior a dpr king, with plenty left for utility, defense and mobility.

[theVoidWatches]

Spoiler: Skinwalker

Show

First thing I like is that you give beast forms to the Skinwalker whether they have actually seen them in game or not. Although I would re-consider getting them at odd levels, because there will be a chance that the PC will get to level 6 and level 12 and get new CRs but not actually have a form in that CR. I would actually consider giving them a new form automatically at level 3, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 15,and 18 (this ends up being 1 less form overall, but it gives an additional form when you hit a new CR or gain a movement ability for the form). This is actually what my DM did in the game I am currently playing, and it worked out really well for the character.

I can see Monstrous form being a major issue in game. From reading it, you can turn into anything you level or lower. That means you can become humanoids and other types that could have special abilities and spell casting. What is the ruling on those? Do you get innate spell casting of a Pixie or other Fey you killed? Also I think the CR level of transformation is rife for problems. Being able to turn into a CR of 1 less than your level even for an hour is pretty darn strong (especially since you don't have the language barrier and intelligence barrier you run into with Polymorph). Can you imagine a level 11 character turning into a Gold Dragon or a Fire Giant? Or a level 7 character becoming a Medusa or Gorgon? You will end up taking over the party most of the time and being able to take on many encounters by yourself unless this is limited a little bit more.


I also think the thousand forms ability should be tossed out and replaced. Alter Self is a concentration spell, and even if you take the natural weapons option you are still better off with using Hunter's mark on a 1d8 weapon (1d10 averages 2 more damage than a 1d8, however 1d8 + 1d6 nets on average 1 more damage than 1d10). As for the aquatic and appearance options, when you need those you still have the spell available to you as a subclass spell so that will cover that. Overall this ability ends up being pretty a meh, especially for a capstone.

I see what you mean about the monstrous forms - I should clarify how innate spellcasting and stuff will work. I'm thinking maybe you'll have access to innate abilities (but not abilities like spellcasting generally - only innate spellcasting), but any resources that the creature harvested had expended will remain expended. If it had used a spell slot, that spell slot is gone.
I should also specify that you don't get lair actions.
I'm not sure that the CR is such a problem, but I can limit it to no more than have your level and just a flat one hour timer.

You're right that thousand forms might be a little weak - it was directly pulled from Moon Druids, but I forgot that rangers want their concentration for Hunter's Mark all the time (and also that Alter Self is concentration). What if I also make it not cost your concentration when you use it on yourself? That gives it more of the "I can customize my any form" thing I'm going for.

[nickl_2000]

I see what you mean about the monstrous forms - I should clarify how innate spellcasting and stuff will work. I'm thinking maybe you'll have access to innate abilities (but not abilities like spellcasting generally - only innate spellcasting), but any resources that the creature harvested had expended will remain expended. If it had used a spell slot, that spell slot is gone.
I should also specify that you don't get lair actions.
I'm not sure that the CR is such a problem, but I can limit it to no more than have your level and just a flat one hour timer.

I don't mind the "if a resource or ability has been used you don't get it" with monstrous forms, but it is going to be a bookkeeping issue. Now, not only do you need to keep track of extra forms, but you also have to keep track of what you do and don't have left. Still, if you are playing this subclass, that is your own problem

You actually don't need to worry about lair actions or legendary actions. The first bullet point under Wildshaping on page 63 of the PHB specificially says that you get no legendary or lair action if the creature you are shaping into has them.

I think that a flat one hour timer does help some, but it would still be a worry to me. Really, you would have to see how it plays on the table and be willing to adjust it on the fly.

You're right that thousand forms might be a little weak - it was directly pulled from Moon Druids, but I forgot that rangers want their concentration for Hunter's Mark all the time (and also that Alter Self is concentration). What if I also make it not cost your concentration when you use it on yourself? That gives it more of the "I can customize my any form" thing I'm going for.

I know it was pulled from the Moon Druids, but frankly it sucks on a Moon Druid too. That being said, Moon Druid have wildshape casting at level 18 and infinite wildshaping at level 20 to more than make up for this ability sucking. A Ranger does not have that, they have Foe Slayer (meh) and Feral Sense (much better than Foe Slayer). Making it non-concentration would help significantly, and frankly I don't see where that could be excessively abused. Other may come up with something though.

[Man_Over_Game]

It's a bit odd, but I updated the Pack Master to alternate between using Warding Bond or allowing his beast to have magical attacks.

Can anyone read through it real quick and let me know if it makes sense? I think a second pair of eyes would help, since it's a mechanic I don't think I've seen before.

[nickl_2000]

Regarding the enlightened warrior... Focused strike is quite strong now! If you combo it with action surge, thats a lot of damage for very little ressource. At level 5, that's easily up to 12 more damage (assuming 16 wisdom), for a single ki point. Polearm master/sentinel might get another 3 out of the opportunity attack. A battlemaster, expanding his four superiority dice, gets an average of 18 damage out of them, and is then completely gassed out.

At 11, it's exploded. Now assuming we maxed strenght and put one more in wisdom. Combine focus and action surge, we are now at 6X4 for 24 damage. Battlemaster, 27.5, and again he is gassed out completely, while the enlightened has only spent a single ressource. He's got 10 more points! and he gets to do more thing than the battlemaster with them!

Fourth attack, second use of action surge, and maxing wisdom makes the enlightened warrior a dpr king, with plenty left for utility, defense and mobility.

Okay that is a solid point, although a battlemaster gets more than just damage out of his manuavers whereas this is just flat damage. I was trying to make it more focused on Wisdom to help out the PC in combat, but I will have to re-think it. I'm very open to thoughts on what could replace it, be fun for a fighters, feel monky, and still be sane.

[nickl_2000]

It's a bit odd, but I updated the Pack Master to alternate between using Warding Bond or allowing his beast to have magical attacks.

Can anyone read through it real quick and let me know if it makes sense? I think a second pair of eyes would help, since it's a mechanic I don't think I've seen before.

I don't see any issue with the way it is worded right now. It makes sense. I would put a but of an explanation in there that you are allowed to activate warding bond while raging since technically you can't cast a spell or concentrate while raging.

[Man_Over_Game]

I don't see any issue with the way it is worded right now. It makes sense. I would put a but of an explanation in there that you are allowed to activate warding bond while raging since technically you can't cast a spell or concentrate while raging.

The first line does state "You can cast Warding Bond on your Companion at the same time that you Rage, or with a Bonus Action while you are Raging". Since the Pack Master Barbarian subclass is more specific than the Barbarian superclass, the fact that "you can cast Warding Bond [...] while you are Raging" would take precedence over "If you are able to cast spells, you can't cast them or concentrate on them while raging."

Similarly, you normally can't cast Darkness with Sorcery Points, unless you're a Shadow Sorcerer.

I mean, I could try to clear it up, but I think trying to clarify it beyond the regular order of operations might make it seem confusing and wordy.

[Bloodcloud]

Okay that is a solid point, although a battlemaster gets more than just damage out of his manuavers whereas this is just flat damage. I was trying to make it more focused on Wisdom to help out the PC in combat, but I will have to re-think it. I'm very open to thoughts on what could replace it, be fun for a fighters, feel monky, and still be sane.

Yeah, battlemaster gets a bit more, but the point was that for 1 ki point, you can more or less match the battlemaster total outpout.

Have you considered giving the monk's unarmored defense? A non-armored fighter is definitely missing. Might want to check the kensai's abilities, see if anything could be ported/adapted.

Otherwise, bonus action to add wisdom (or maybe wisdom + something, like trip/push/no reaction) to one attack would be far more in line with existing bonus damage abilities. Fighter multiplies those bonus too easily otherwise. Notice that bladelock cha necrotic to weapon attack is a level 12 feature and paladin perma smite is 11, so past the point it can be combined with fighter's third attack. That's likely intentional.

[nickl_2000]

Yeah, battlemaster gets a bit more, but the point was that for 1 ki point, you can more or less match the battlemaster total outpout.

Have you considered giving the monk's unarmored defense? A non-armored fighter is definitely missing. Might want to check the kensai's abilities, see if anything could be ported/adapted.

Otherwise, bonus action to add wisdom (or maybe wisdom + something, like trip/push/no reaction) to one attack would be far more in line with existing bonus damage abilities. Fighter multiplies those bonus too easily otherwise. Notice that bladelock cha necrotic to weapon attack is a level 12 feature and paladin perma smite is 11, so past the point it can be combined with fighter's third attack. That's likely intentional.

The unarmored feature is to iconic to a monk in my mind (on par with the unarmed bonus action attack and flurry). I want to make this to still feel like a fighter that has some things like a monk, without subtracting from the uniqueness of the monk. Ironically, the initial 1d4 to weapon attacks was stolen from the Kensei's shot ability.

I actually think I will have it basically be an extra attack like the monk does, but have it be a mental attack that attacks the other persons mind (kind of like the mental shield protects your own).

EDIT: changed it to
Mental Assault - You can spend 1 ki point to mental assault against your opponents mind. Make a spell attack against an opponent. On a successful hit, you overwhelm their mind with synaptic feedback, causing them to have disadvantage on their next attack and take 1d8+wisdom mod psychic damage

[Crisis21]

The unarmored feature is to iconic to a monk in my mind (on par with the unarmed bonus action attack and flurry). I want to make this to still feel like a fighter that has some things like a monk, without subtracting from the uniqueness of the monk. Ironically, the initial 1d4 to weapon attacks was stolen from the Kensei's shot ability.

I actually think I will have it basically be an extra attack like the monk does, but have it be a mental attack that attacks the other persons mind (kind of like the mental shield protects your own).

EDIT: changed it to
Mental Assault - You can spend 1 ki point to mental assault against your opponents mind. Make a spell attack against an opponent. On a successful hit, you overwhelm their mind with synaptic feedback, causing them to have disadvantage on their next attack and take 1d8+wisdom mod psychic damage

Just a suggestion of something you might do to reference the Monk's unarmored defense without copying it verbatim: Allow the fighter to use their Wisdom modifier instead of their Dexterity modifier when determining AC. Make sure to specify that any limitations that would be applied to Dexterity (such as from most medium armor) will be applied to Wisdom if they do this.

[Bloodcloud]

The unarmored feature is to iconic to a monk in my mind (on par with the unarmed bonus action attack and flurry). I want to make this to still feel like a fighter that has some things like a monk, without subtracting from the uniqueness of the monk. Ironically, the initial 1d4 to weapon attacks was stolen from the Kensei's shot ability.

I actually think I will have it basically be an extra attack like the monk does, but have it be a mental attack that attacks the other persons mind (kind of like the mental shield protects your own).

EDIT: changed it to
Mental Assault - You can spend 1 ki point to mental assault against your opponents mind. Make a spell attack against an opponent. On a successful hit, you overwhelm their mind with synaptic feedback, causing them to have disadvantage on their next attack and take 1d8+wisdom mod psychic damage

Well, now it sounds like a psychic warrior more than a monk...

[Man_Over_Game]

Well, now it sounds like a psychic warrior more than a monk...

I agree on this. You could change it to "When you miss with a melee weapon attack, you can reroll your attack roll by spending your Bonus Action". This is similar to the Monk's Unarmed Strike, but deals less damage in place for more accuracy.

The problem I have with that is that I'd expect a "Monk-like Fighter" to work well with multiclassing into Monk. I'm not sure what the ideal solution would be in this case.

[nickl_2000]

Well, now it sounds like a psychic warrior more than a monk...

I agree on this. You could change it to "When you miss with a melee weapon attack, you can reroll your attack roll by spending your Bonus Action". This is similar to the Monk's Unarmed Strike, but deals less damage in place for more accuracy.

Alright, if two people are both saying it I guess I need to change that for the theming. I kind of liked that ability, but I can always make a psyonic subclass at some point and re-use it on there.

[Fnissalot]

Spoiler: Relic Grifter

Show

As for mechanics, the swindling divinity seems a little wonky. So, at ninth level you have 2 relics. You can destroy one of them to use the channel divinity feature on the relic, that seems fine. The fact that you can't re-create the relic until you have channeled divinity on a different relic seems odd. I don't see the point of that. You have already hurt yourself in the fact that you can no longer cast spells from that relic until you make another, isn't that enough of a penalty on it's own?

Firstly, it is meant to be thematic. It is a mechanical representation of that you con a deity of power and it remains mad at you for a while.

The only limits are how many relics you can prepare/resonate with and that you can not have duplicates of the same relic. Other than that, you are free to create relics. At 9th level, you can 'prepare' 2 relics but you can own more than that. If you use swindling divinity, you destroy a prepared relic that has a spell slot or already has expended it. You will still be able to prepare up to your limit at the next long rest. For example, I might own 10 relics of different types even if I only have 2 prepared. If I use one for Swindle Divinity, I still got 9 others that can be prepared for the next day, and I wouldn't be able to use that relic more that day if it didn't even have its spell slot left. Lastly, a holy symbol is almost no gold cost at all after 9th level.

In practice, it only makes it so there will be one type of relic you lock yourself out from until you do it with another one. In most scenarios, you will have a slightly shorter list of spells to choose from when deciding on what relics to prepare, but you won't be a spell slot short. It also forces you to rotate which spells you have available to you. My experience of playing or Gming druids and clerics is that you rarely rotate which spells you have and this plays against that.

Was it unclear that you can have more relics than you prepare or was the slight reduction of spell list to prepare from the issue?

[Fnissalot]

Comments and thoughts on stuff!

Spoiler: Pack Master

Show

Super nice theme! I like that you need to wrestle the beast to show it that it should follow you.

I would write the second part of Predatory Tactics as follows : If both you and your Companion are adjacent to the same enemy, you can spend your Bonus Action to have your Companion use the Help action.

A small verbal thing, I am annoyed at the 'and' in this sentence: If you were not Raging, you Rage before taking the damage and without expending a use of Rage. I would either split it up in to sentences or remove the and.

Spoiler: Skinwalker

Show

God that is both cool and dark and gritty!

Monstrous Form is a bit weird at the moment. First I think it is still pretty strong and there is a lot of upkeep to it. One way to remove the upkeep would be to just limit any special ability to once per skin. I would say that you either cannot use the creatures spellcasting or that it has enough magic left in it for one spell slot?.

As it is written right now, could you skin and turn into constructs, undead(ghosts?), oozes, swarms, or elementals?

Also, I think as Animalistic smite is written currently could be interpreted to work with monstrous form which I assume is not intended. I could see some of my players argue for it at least. Saying that you need to be transformed into a Beast instead might be a bit clearer?

On a thematic point, smites doesn't feel super thematic to me? Getting more attacks feels more primal in my opinion. I would rather have burning spells let me do an attack as an bonus action and you add the spell level to the attack roll and damage roll?

Spoiler: Enlightened Warrior

Show

I think Battlefocus is fine.

At first I thought that you get too many ki points but the spell casting is pretty expensive so I think it is balanced more or less well enough?

Is mental assault an normal attack, action or bonus action?

How long does the advantage last? what is the duration?

Spoiler: Green Knight

Show

Overall I think this is cool but the Shillelagh focus is a bit weird? Thematically, it feels like a mix between druid, fighter and forge cleric.

Since you change the spell as much as you do, I would just rewrite it entirely. As it is written right now, it is just a lot of exceptions that you will need to cross reference. Making it a feature separated from the spell would still be enough to fulfill the contests theme to me.

Second, I would rather have transmutation as one of the magic schools instead of abjuration. In my opinion it has the most iconic druid spells.

Spoiler: Faustian College

Show

Cool theme!

Greatest Song in the World is a bit weird? First you spend 2 turns prepping to get a slight attack buff and a huge spell DC buff for 10 turns? Why not take away the turns of prepping and just make it a 10 turn concentration thing from the point you start it? Also, wouldn't it be easier to just say that you add double your proficiency bonus for your spell save DC?

Lastly, I don't like max Hit point reductions. It would be easier to make it burn your hit dice?

Spoiler: Primal bloodline

Show

I like the primal animalistic drifts but it would be nice when you choose the drifts at 6th and 14th level to be able to choose from the drift available at earlier levels as well.

It would be cool if you could use a bunch of sorcery points to regain your Primal apotheosis. Also Stone looks weaker than the other 3 elements at a first glance.

Spoiler: Fury Origin

Show

It looks good! I would say it seems balanced and such?

The only minor thing I might change is to limit the bonus to damage to a number of targets per spell. Maybe equal to your strength or constitution modifier?

[Bloodcloud]

Oh rage mage!

I like the concept, but a few comments:
Damage per attack roll runs into the pre-errata dragon sorcerer problem. Scorching ray is the only spell worth casting, and warlock multiclass is damn near mandatory here. I’d switch for damage once per spell or roll damage twice keep best.
A mean to impose disadvantage on saving throw against your spells somewhere would be fitting. There aren’t that many attack roll spells, so advantage on spell attacks is rather limiting.
I’d consider giving martial weapon and put the limit on heavy armor but not medium.
Level 18, why not allow to spend the point when the save would be failed? It’s a capstone after all

[Vogie]

Greatest Song in the World is a bit weird? First you spend 2 turns prepping to get a slight attack buff and a huge spell DC buff for 10 turns? Why not take away the turns of prepping and just make it a 10 turn concentration thing from the point you start it? Also, wouldn't it be easier to just say that you add double your proficiency bonus for your spell save DC?

You don't need 2 turns to get it started. You can have the Pact instrument around at all times, and you only have to resummon it if it's gone for some way - just like a Warlock's Pact weapon.

It's just a single turn to start playing the greatest song in the world, and the attack buff and DC buff are the same - while you're correct, it's a flavorable explanation to say "your proficiency is doubled", it's all about the flavor of things... Just like a Barbarian does not "activate a short-term mundane damage resistance, damage boost, and athletic advantage, with a bonus action", they "rage". The mechanic-based flavor is the bard is skipping their turn to use their performance rolls as attacks and spell save DCs... which may or may not be useful in every situation, as we're in an edition where many combat encounters can be less than 4 rounds long.

Lastly, I don't like max Hit point reductions. It would be easier to make it burn your hit dice?

I don't like Max hit point reductions either... but Bards can heal & cast restoration spells on themselves. When a Wizard Overchannels, they have to tax their healer's spell slots to keep their little d6 hit die body alive. Bards have a d8 hit die, and have no such requirements, so the initial 2d12 necrotic damage is not going to be nearly as painful. They could quite easily alternate Bargins and heals until they are blue in the face, Doing both in the same turn if they grab something like Healing Spirit or Aura of Vitality with magical secrets.

I did remember that Greater Restoration will allow you to remove a single effect removing HP reductions (and this feature would generate several), so I have updated the feature to clarify that Crossroad Bargain abilities require a spell slot to be expended, which makes it more wish-esque.

[Crisis21]

Spoiler: Green Knight

Show

Overall I think this is cool but the Shillelagh focus is a bit weird? Thematically, it feels like a mix between druid, fighter and forge cleric.

Since you change the spell as much as you do, I would just rewrite it entirely. As it is written right now, it is just a lot of exceptions that you will need to cross reference. Making it a feature separated from the spell would still be enough to fulfill the contests theme to me.

Second, I would rather have transmutation as one of the magic schools instead of abjuration. In my opinion it has the most iconic druid spells.

Shillelagh focus is because, as a spell, Shillelagh is most useful for a martial class. Plus because the base cantrip hadn't been given the same kind of progression as most attack cantrips. I could (and formerly did) just rewrite the spell, but a previous reviewer made me aware that posting the changes was both more concise and in keeping with how subclasses are usually written.

Of course many of the most iconic druid spells are Transmutation. Transmutation makes up about half the druid spell list by itself. Evocation/Abjuration (with four exceptions) was the limitation Eldritch Knight imposed and the Druid spell list has enough of those to give a player decent options for a martial character (23 such spells level 4 or lower, of which the player will learn between 9 and 13). Plus Evo/Abj is thematic for a martial character's priorities.

[nickl_2000]

Comments and thoughts on stuff!

Spoiler: Enlightened Warrior

Show

I think Battlefocus is fine.

At first I thought that you get too many ki points but the spell casting is pretty expensive so I think it is balanced more or less well enough?

Is mental assault an normal attack, action or bonus action?

How long does the advantage last? what is the duration?

I actually had the Ki as less initially, and the costs less as well. However, it was suggested that I increase the Ki overall, so I also increased the cost of some of the spells (I doubled the Warrior's Ki, and increased the spell cost by about 50%).

Mental Assault is defunct once again, I'm still re-thinking the base Ki abilities. These have given me all kinds of pain in getting it right.

As for Mental Shield (I think that is what you are referring to), it is a reaction to a charm/fear spell or effect. It is useful for all allies in a 30 foot radius for that one spell/effect. My head cannon on this one is that the Enlightened warrior can project the shield around allies to mentally defend them. However, it is only useful for that one spell/effect. I will try and clarify it somewhat.

[Fnissalot]

You don't need 2 turns to get it started. You can have the Pact instrument around at all times, and you only have to resummon it if it's gone for some way - just like a Warlock's Pact weapon.

It's just a single turn to start playing the greatest song in the world, and the attack buff and DC buff are the same - while you're correct, it's a flavorable explanation to say "your proficiency is doubled", it's all about the flavor of things... Just like a Barbarian does not "activate a short-term mundane damage resistance, damage boost, and athletic advantage, with a bonus action", they "rage". The mechanic-based flavor is the bard is skipping their turn to use their performance rolls as attacks and spell save DCs... which may or may not be useful in every situation, as we're in an edition where many combat encounters can be less than 4 rounds long.

But the effect starts at the end of your next turn so it won't work the turn after you start it as an action and you cannot cast concentration spells on your that turn since that would end the performance. Maybe change it so the duration starts on the start of your next turn.

On the DC part, since you have expertise in performance skill, isn't the proficiency tripled. Otherwise flavorwise, you are completely right.

Shillelagh focus is because, as a spell, Shillelagh is most useful for a martial class. Plus because the base cantrip hadn't been given the same kind of progression as most attack cantrips. I could (and formerly did) just rewrite the spell, but a previous reviewer made me aware that posting the changes was both more concise and in keeping with how subclasses are usually written.

Of course many of the most iconic druid spells are Transmutation. Transmutation makes up about half the druid spell list by itself. Evocation/Abjuration (with four exceptions) was the limitation Eldritch Knight imposed and the Druid spell list has enough of those to give a player decent options for a martial character (23 such spells level 4 or lower, of which the player will learn between 9 and 13). Plus Evo/Abj is thematic for a martial character's priorities.

I don't have the issue with the focus on shillelagh. In my opinion, I would have implemented it as its own thing, borrowing or taking inspiration from the Forge Domains item improvement or a pact weapon instead of as a spell. Blessing of the forge and Hex Warrior with a pact of the blade are both much more streamlined ways to write it for features. It can still be flavored as Shillelagh or the Blackthorns Blessing or something. As it is right now, I think it is a weird mix between them and I would think it would be tedious to look up all the exceptions and changes to the spell. But, that is my opinion and I guess other people here disagree then =).

But eldritch knight gets to choose from the wizard spell pool and they have more evocation and abjuration spells. Transmutation and evocation for druid is still a shorter list of choices than abjuration and evocation for wizards. While I agree that abjuration is more martial focused generally, I disagree when looking over the druid spell list as only a few of the 9 druid abjuration spells of level 1-4 is worth the while.

Mental Assault is defunct once again, I'm still re-thinking the base Ki abilities. These have given me all kinds of pain in getting it right.

As for Mental Shield (I think that is what you are referring to), it is a reaction to a charm/fear spell or effect. It is useful for all allies in a 30 foot radius for that one spell/effect. My head cannon on this one is that the Enlightened warrior can project the shield around allies to mentally defend them. However, it is only useful for that one spell/effect. I will try and clarify it somewhat.

Yeah, I meant the mental shield. Adding advantage on that save or something would make that clear. =)

[MoleMage]

Originally I was going to do Wizardlock, but Crisis21's version right before the contest started was basically what I imagined it being (right down to the name).

Then I thought about bringing Warshaper into 5e (as a Fighter/Druid) but we already have two fighter subclasses and three subclasses borrowing from druid.

So now my thoughts are split between:

1. Rage Monk (Way of Tranquil Fury) based on a Barbarian I once ran in 3.5 (whirling frenzy refluffed as "battle trance" because I wanted to be lawful)
2. Randomly roll once for the 5 classes I haven't yet made and once for the 12 base classes and make whatever comes up.
3. Combine one of my homebrew classes from Requilac's Base Class Contest with something, either as the borrower or the lender. Most likely a Ranger or Rogue subclass that adds Alchemy.

What would you guys like to see from this list? Or are there combinations you want to see made but don't know how to make yourself (preferably for Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Rogue, or Wizard, as I haven't done those in previous contests)?

[theVoidWatches]

Comments and thoughts on stuff!

God that is both cool and dark and gritty!

Monstrous Form is a bit weird at the moment. First I think it is still pretty strong and there is a lot of upkeep to it. One way to remove the upkeep would be to just limit any special ability to once per skin. I would say that you either cannot use the creatures spellcasting or that it has enough magic left in it for one spell slot?.

As it is written right now, could you skin and turn into constructs, undead(ghosts?), oozes, swarms, or elementals?

Also, I think as Animalistic smite is written currently could be interpreted to work with monstrous form which I assume is not intended. I could see some of my players argue for it at least. Saying that you need to be transformed into a Beast instead might be a bit clearer?

On a thematic point, smites doesn't feel super thematic to me? Getting more attacks feels more primal in my opinion. I would rather have burning spells let me do an attack as an bonus action and you add the spell level to the attack roll and damage roll?

So Monstrous Form requires the creature to have a skin. Constructs, you probably can't turn into (with the exception of a Flesh Golem). Undead in general, yes, ghosts probably not. Oozes, swarms, and elementals, no. I should add a note explaining that.

Animalistic Smite shouldn't work with Monstrous Form. It works while you're transformed with Wild Shape, not while you're transformed with Monstrous Form.

I can see why you don't think it feels thematic, but it's supposed to fall under the shapeshifting theme more than a primal theme. The subclass isn't about getting in touch with your wild side, it's about using animals as fuel for shapechanging. Level 11 comes with a damage boost, for rangers, and this made sense as a way of boosting damage... I guess another possibility could be a more flat +1d8 damage boost all the time while shapechanged, as you improve the natural weapons of your form instead of just using them.