D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[nickl_2000]

Spoiler: Barbarian Path of the Spellbound

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Arcane Surge
"Creatures within 5 feet must..." small and piddly thing, but 5 feet of what?
Otherwise this is effectively a barbarian cantrip. It looks good to me as it is.

Surge Points - I'm assuming this is a level 3 ability. May want to mention that.
Someone else mentioned that at level 20 you get unlimited surges. This may be an issue that you need to adjust for.
Will watch for the meta surges as they come

Mystic Nature
Again an possible issue with level 20 infinite rages.
Do detect magic and identify require material components? Sometimes innate casting like this bypasses it, so you should be specific.

Channeled Strike - Very similar to the EK ability. Seems like a very good fit to me.

Reactive Surge - Is this any damage or melee attacks only? So far it is any damage, which seems fine, but I just wanted you to think about it as you get further along in development.


This subclass has potential, but it definitely needs something still. However, I feel like that need will be filled once you fill in the metasurges.

Spoiler: Otherworldly Patron: the Great Dragon

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Expanded Spell List - 5th level Hold Monster is already on the warlock spell list. Since you aren't automatically adding it to the list and giving them an expanded set of choices you should replace this one.

Honestly this appears to be the Draconic Bloodline on a Warlock. I don't see whole lot different here between this and the sorcerer bloodline (other than more limited sorcerery points). I would love to see more variety and differences between the two subclasses to differentiate them more.

Spoiler: Combo King Fighter

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Combo Points - Do you get all the finishers immediately? Or do you get only some of the at certain points? Or do you pick ones like invocations? I think it's all of them immediately, but I wouldn't mind see it spelled out for clarity.

Iron Muscle/Iron Hide - It would be much clearer here if you just gave a new calculation for AC. When unarmored your AC can be 10 + strength mod or 10 + constitution mod.

Iron Fist - Personal pet peeve on this one that you are making the damage progression the same as a monk. This is a fighter, it gets 4 attacks all the time at high levels and can bonus action second hand attack. Give them a slower damage progression and lower overall damage to let the monk be a monk.

Feint - Seems fine right now in my first read through where I haven't gotten to finishers yet.

Eye of the Champion - The mechanics around this seem fine, the RP implications are a little bit odd. How, did your rival get in the dragon cave or extra dimension?

Eye of the Champion - I like this, a good use of a reaction and a useful ability in combat albeit one that lets you use strategy rather than adding direct damage.

Gigasmash - Seem fine to me.


You need to define how to calculate the save DC on many of the finishers.

Polearm
Medium - Technically you hit someone with this based on wording. It could be argued that you get a combo point for whoever you hit for this (at a 10 ft radius that could be a lot of people).
Strong - What direction are they moved?

Heavy weapons
Medium - Same issues as medium polearm

Blades
Strong - Same issue of gaining more points from hits.

Bludgeons
Strong - This one seems like to much. Unconscious is a brutal, brutal state. They are knocked out of combat for a round, attacks are at an advantage, all hits on them are criticals, and they lose concentration on spell.

Axes
Weak - This is one of the battlemasters big schticks that only they can do and you can either do it almost every round or every other round. Seems like it takes away from them.

Ranged
Medium - Wow, this one seems really broken from the chance of gaining more combo points. Can you imagine at level 20? You could technically unleash 24 attacks in a single round if you have 6 different targets.
Heavy- Whoa, 1d4 levels of exhaustion? One hit and a lucky roll gives disadvantage on ability checks, speed reduced by half, disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws, and HP Max reduced by half. 1 hit. Not only that but there is no save against it at all. 1 level each time with a save to prevent it (and a roll to hit) seems sufficient to me.

Whip, chain, et al
Medium - Probably should have a rider here that you can't use the weapon to make an attack again until the grapple has n

Fists
Strong - This is flat out fun and needs to be allowed more. Although technically a medium sized PC can't grapple a huge critter without enlarge


Overall I think you need to have a caveat on the finishers that when you hit with a finish it does not give you additional combo points. That alone would make a big different in balance.

Spoiler: Paladin - Oath of Light

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Gifts from the Light - So technical from your wording, at 7th level I can spend a long rest in the light and then trade it in for a 5th level spell slot. Probably should have something in here that says you can only gain slots that you have access to.

Sun Burst - It's a little bit odd that you have to spend more Luminous points as you level up and don't really gain much more out of it. It seems like it would be better to set an amount of stored light that this takes (likely 3 since you get it at level 3) and then give it additional damage when you add more luminous points to it.

Hurling Smite - This is a pretty specific feature and wouldn't end up being used all the time. It seems like it would be better to have a cost to hurl a ball, which does a certainly amount of damage. Then allow the Paladin to use Divine Smite or a smite spell on hit. It would simplify the feature some and would make it usable more often as well.

Burning aura - What is affected by the heat metal spell? Armor, weapons? Do you choose as the paladin or is it all metal on the body? What happens in rounds after the first (heat metal requires a bonus action after the first round to do more damage), but you could be affecting 5 people at the same time.

Beacon of Light - Needs a cannot be done until you finish a long rest afterwards.
Blind affect should have an additional save each round.
This is pretty powerful, even for a capstone. I wouldn't mind seeing 1 of the bullet points dropped off to balance it a tiny bit.

[BerzerkerUnit]

[

Spoiler: Combo King Fighter

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Combo Points - Do you get all the finishers immediately? Or do you get only some of the at certain points? Or do you pick ones like invocations? I think it's all of them immediately, but I wouldn't mind see it spelled out for clarity.

Iron Muscle/Iron Hide - It would be much clearer here if you just gave a new calculation for AC. When unarmored your AC can be 10 + strength mod or 10 + constitution mod.

Iron Fist - Personal pet peeve on this one that you are making the damage progression the same as a monk. This is a fighter, it gets 4 attacks all the time at high levels and can bonus action second hand attack. Give them a slower damage progression and lower overall damage to let the monk be a monk.

Feint - Seems fine right now in my first read through where I haven't gotten to finishers yet.

Eye of the Champion - The mechanics around this seem fine, the RP implications are a little bit odd. How, did your rival get in the dragon cave or extra dimension?

Eye of the Champion - I like this, a good use of a reaction and a useful ability in combat albeit one that lets you use strategy rather than adding direct damage.

Gigasmash - Seem fine to me.


You need to define how to calculate the save DC on many of the finishers.

Polearm
Medium - Technically you hit someone with this based on wording. It could be argued that you get a combo point for whoever you hit for this (at a 10 ft radius that could be a lot of people).
Strong - What direction are they moved?

Heavy weapons
Medium - Same issues as medium polearm

Blades
Strong - Same issue of gaining more points from hits.

Bludgeons
Strong - This one seems like to much. Unconscious is a brutal, brutal state. They are knocked out of combat for a round, attacks are at an advantage, all hits on them are criticals, and they lose concentration on spell.

Axes
Weak - This is one of the battlemasters big schticks that only they can do and you can either do it almost every round or every other round. Seems like it takes away from them.

Ranged
Medium - Wow, this one seems really broken from the chance of gaining more combo points. Can you imagine at level 20? You could technically unleash 24 attacks in a single round if you have 6 different targets.
Heavy- Whoa, 1d4 levels of exhaustion? One hit and a lucky roll gives disadvantage on ability checks, speed reduced by half, disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws, and HP Max reduced by half. 1 hit. Not only that but there is no save against it at all. 1 level each time with a save to prevent it (and a roll to hit) seems sufficient to me.

Whip, chain, et al
Medium - Probably should have a rider here that you can't use the weapon to make an attack again until the grapple has n

Fists
Strong - This is flat out fun and needs to be allowed more. Although technically a medium sized PC can't grapple a huge critter without enlarge


Overall I think you need to have a caveat on the finishers that when you hit with a finish it does not give you additional combo points. That alone would make a big different in balance.

Thanks for your feed back. I had already gone back and added that Finishers don’t generate combo points.

I’ll try to address each point, but like you said, knowing a Finisher doesn’t grant combo points manages a lot. Additionally, when evaluating the Strong Finishers it’s important to remember you need 3 consecutive successful hits to build to them. That means it will typically take at least 2 turns to execute one and every attack is also a chance to reset your points to 0. They’re very good because it’s a gamble and sacrifice to wait and use them.

Wording overall definitely needs a pass, this is mostly brainstorming notes.

Unarmed damage: it irks me a bit as well, but the fighter does not get innate magic unarmed attacks and Monks are reliably attacking 4x/Round (if that’s what they want to focus on) at level 5 while fighters can do it for 1 round unless twf which is understood to be suboptimal without particular weapons. So in an effort to make doing it more viable without the Monk’s bells/whistles I felt the damage had to be up to par.

Rivals showing up out of nowhere is mechanically fine but I’d like to think a DM would get creative.

Polearm-np without combo points from finishers, Driving thrust moves them to the nearest empty space out of the path.

Blades- np without combo points from finishers

Hvy Wpns- np without combo points from finishers

Bludgeons- I added that damage wakes the target up, so you’ll only get one critical. It’s already resisted by a save. And I’ve addressed the major obstacle to 3 pt finishers above.

Axes- according to the DMG anyone can disarm and I don’t see any reason the Battlemaster should have a monopoly on doing it with an attack. They get to add damage as well and don’t need to successfully hit something first.

Ranged-
Medium- not sure where you’re getting your math. At most you can attack 6 targets and deal 6 damage (maybe more if you have a ton of poison and something to poison the arrows for you or enough prep time). It’s like an upcast magic missile. If you had a stellar action surge the previous round and were a crossbow master... 9 attacks generates 9 points, assume you succeeded in an AOO, you have 10 combo points At the start of your next turn. You could execute 5 of these to deal 30 damage to 6 targets or 30 damage to 1 target with no roll, or 6 damage to 30 targets. Doesn’t seem exceptional and it required 10 consecutive attacks that never missed Beforehand.

strong- honestly I wanted to see if anyone would catch it. Yes, it should be 1 level, but there won’t be a save since you can’t reliably generate the attack meaning until level 20 you’ll likely get 2 of these off per combat max until the lofty levels of T4.

Ropes/Whips- I’ll add that attacks with the weapon can only target the grappled creature until the grapple ends.

Fists- I think the specific effect of this feature would trump the general rule about grappling, on a hit the target is grappled, that’s how I’ve always run it for creatures like giant frogs and such. So the only requirement is prodigious strength, so a Str focused Goliath or someone with Enhance Ability Str might be able to do it.

[sengmeng]

[SPOILER=Otherworldly Patron: the Great Dragon]

Expanded Spell List - 5th level Hold Monster is already on the warlock spell list. Since you aren't automatically adding it to the list and giving them an expanded set of choices you should replace this one.

Honestly this appears to be the Draconic Bloodline on a Warlock. I don't see whole lot different here between this and the sorcerer bloodline (other than more limited sorcerery points). I would love to see more variety and differences between the two subclasses to differentiate them more.

Yeah, I'll have to revisit the expanded spell list.

It is exactly the draconic bloodline on a warlock in most ways, as that is the concept I was going for. This is supposed to be someone who could have just as easily been a sorcerer, but decided to bargain for power with their ancestor instead of developing it themselves. However, I am thinking of adding a breath weapon as a pact boon, and several invocations that are only available to this warlock, and maybr even a metamagic option just for them as well. Does that sound like enough to separate them, in your opinion?

[nickl_2000]

Yeah, I'll have to revisit the expanded spell list.

It is exactly the draconic bloodline on a warlock in most ways, as that is the concept I was going for. This is supposed to be someone who could have just as easily been a sorcerer, but decided to bargain for power with their ancestor instead of developing it themselves. However, I am thinking of adding a breath weapon as a pact boon, and several invocations that are only available to this warlock, and maybr even a metamagic option just for them as well. Does that sound like enough to separate them, in your opinion?

Yes it should do enough to make the difference mechanically.

[nickl_2000]

Axes- according to the DMG anyone can disarm and I don’t see any reason the Battlemaster should have a monopoly on doing it with an attack. They get to add damage as well and don’t need to successfully hit something first.

Technically this is an alternate rule in the DMG, so it isn't part of the standard. However your point is made. Fixing the combo points from finishers issue helps massively with balance here. That solves 90% of my balance and worries

[theVoidWatches]

It may be overcomplicated, but I just posted the first draft of the College of Plautus. Some of the higher-score bonuses are pretty strong, but I don't see people reaching them easily (given that very few people play out full adventuring days), so I'm okay with it.

Inspired Words (+bard level to damage of a bard cantrip 1/turn) is pretty strong, but even at level 20 your max damage with Vicious Mockery is only 36 (and an average of 30), which is pretty in line with cantrips like Firebolt (max damage 40, average 22). Even if you grab a better cantrip with Magical Secrets (your best damage coming from a d12 cantrip, getting you a max of 68 and an average of 46), that's only slightly better than a Warlock's Eldritch Blast (max damage 60, average 42 - if all beams hit) and just about the average Great Weapon Fighter's damage (max of 68 again, an average of 54 - if all attacks hit) if they're not using Great Weapon Master. Or a rogue, at that level, will be doing a max of 66 and an average of 38 damage.
In other words, it makes you a good damage dealer, or a great one if you want to spend one of your limited Magical Secrets on a better cantrip, but not to a ridiculous degree or one that other classes can't achieve.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Guilder Fighter is interesting. I think a “Guild Bag” functioning as a linked Bag of Holding that you can send requests through and retrieve items from (like the Artificer linked pouches). Have minor items appear after a short rest and major ones after a long with some kind of Overspend priority shipping available 1/day.

Couple points. The term DKP isn’t universal, I recommend something like Credit, Legend, Measure of Standing, etc.

Being able to order higher tier magic items is very potent, but you may want to create lists to eliminate some of the more problematic items.

A system for selling back items or working the whole thing to be about items being “on loan” sonit can also fit in to lower magic settings.

Lastly, there’s no such thing as “full round action” anymore. Since the majority of Bonus actions are conditional I’d recommend just making it an action and reducing the cost of potions and alchemy items to half market.

[Phhase]

Oath of Light is up. So.. yeah.

Wow. That's pretty funny, actually.

Because, wouldn't you know it? I just posted the first draft of Oath of the Enshaedn (Dark). It's got lots of adapted spells, which I hope is ok and not too wack, but I think it's pretty cool. Thoughts, everyone?

Also, Nickl, Path of the Bloodied sounds kinda familiar (;. Cool though. Other than tightening up some of the wording, the only issue I have is with the Battlefield Healer bit. While I totally get why it's there, and it's super practical, it's also a little odd. You spend a whole level gaining no combat effectiveness when going from 5 to 6, which seems a bit off. While it sounds like a good idea, I'm not really sure there's enough mechanical space for it. Dunno, your call.

Also, I'm trying to imagine a frothing barbarian also being a super skilled brain surgeon when not enraged, it's pretty funny.

[nickl_2000]

Also, Nickl, Path of the Bloodied sounds kinda familiar (;. Cool though.

Looking back there are definitely a few similarities to your Circle of Blood, but it should be different enough to be pretty distinct (outside of some of the flavouring). I didn't mean to steal though! Honestly my inspiration more came from the Bloodwrath of the Badgers in the Redwall series that I read when I was much younger.

Other than tightening up some of the wording, the only issue I have is with the Battlefield Healer bit. While I totally get why it's there, and it's super practical, it's also a little odd. You spend a whole level gaining no combat effectiveness when going from 5 to 6, which seems a bit off. While it sounds like a good idea, I'm not really sure there's enough mechanical space for it. Dunno, your call.

Also, I'm trying to imagine a frothing barbarian also being a super skilled brain surgeon when not enraged, it's pretty funny.

Ya, since it's a first draft still there is lots of clean up of wording that I need. When I am typing my brain and fingers don't always work in sync, causing some things to come out very odd.

I will say it isn't unheard of for a Barbarian to only get out of combat utility at level 6. Totem gets carrying capacity/better eyesight/better stealth, all of those are mostly combat adjacent rather than directly combat related. I will look at the level 6 ability and adjust it around, although I really like giving barbarians things to do outside of combat from a subclass. I think its something missing in the class in general.

Either way, I will adjust the Blood Rage Points so you get something at level 6, that way you at least get a feel of being able to be more powerful in combat.


Also between the Hulk and Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde I think we have enough pop culture references of the intelligent human who turns into a frothing monster that I can get away with it :)

[sleepyhead]

Should I make Burning aura feature more like the Barbarians Path of storm heralds effect.

Desert. When this effect is activated, all other creatures in your aura take 2 fire damage each. The damage increases when you reach certain levels in this class, increasing to 3 at 5th level, 4 at 10th level, 5 at 15th level, and 6 at 20th level.

Maybe make damage more equal to luminous points spent?

Sun Burst - It's a little bit odd that you have to spend more Luminous points as you level up and don't really gain much more out of it. It seems like it would be better to set an amount of stored light that this takes (likely 3 since you get it at level 3) and then give it additional damage when you add more luminous points to it.

Where does it say that it requires more Luminous points at higher levels?

[nickl_2000]

Touched up Barbarian Path of the Bloodied per comments from Phhase. As a side note, has anyone else found this theme particularly difficult?

Spoiler: College of Plautus

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I like the idea of a Bard that gains more power as he gains renown with people. It's a good way to run with this contest.

Awe Points - Is that when you roll a 20 on the die or you get a 20 or more on the results of the skill check. Based on how powerful the Awe Point abilities are, I'm going to guess that it's an actual roll of a 20 on the die. Other than that this seems pretty cool. It may be to powerful, but I'm not willing to run the numbers on how often you would roll a 20 on a skill check (and I know that a Bard isn't laying out massive damage

Limited Energy - You forgot to mention the level here.
Dance Around Danger - Missing a cost here.


My guts says that while I was playing this class, I wouldn't be using the limited Energy all that often since the awe point passive abilities are so powerful. It would likely be "get to the top of my range as quickly as possible, then use 1. Repeat"

Spoiler: Oath of the Enshaedn

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There are several cases where you refer to using shade that is more than 5, but is appears that you can only get shade equal to your charisma modifier. Am I reading something wrong here?



Nightblessed - I was bothered seeing this as a level 3 feature at first, since Paladin's typically only get channel divinity at level 3. But in looking at it it doesn't seem to increase power overall, so sure why not.
Does Magical Darkvision all you to see through magical darkness? What is magical darkvision? Can it be suppressed via dispel magic?

Nightnail - You can draw in 2 creatures with this. If you use smite do you smite both creatures? If you do, does it use 1 slot or 2? The save they make, what is the type of save they make? Also, I don't foresee anyone successfully making the save vs the total damage. That can get pretty high with a paladin smiting.

Together in Dark - Per above, does this let you see through magical darkness? Also, what happens to an ally that has night vision?

We are the Knight - This is really situational for a 20th level capstone. The overall power seems fine, but generally I see Paladin 20th level abilities as one you can easily use every day. Still, it's a capstone and 99% of people will never see it.

This is by far the most gritty and dark Paladin I've seen. It would be a blast to roleplay.

Spoiler: Fighter Archetype: Guilder

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You need to define what a Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, and Legendary item is. After reading all the way through, I'm assuming that this means a magical item. What is the cost of a magical item? 5e doesn't define the cost of an item like 3.5e did, so I have no idea how much the item I want to buy will cost.


Recruit
Others have said it but I will agree, I have no idea what DKP means. What is considered a common item (everything non-magical in the PHB tables)?
"twice the normal coast" just a small typo.

I'm so lost with the table below. Is this an example of how you gain and lose DKP? Why does being evil make you lose DKP? It's really rare that a class or subclass penalizes you for your actions in your alignments. Also, what about an evil guild. I could definitely see a thieves guild being happy that you were stealing from the general populace.


This needs some more clarifications on what DKP is, how you get or lose them (more specifics), and what you can buy with them.

[Phhase]

There are several cases where you refer to using shade that is more than 5, but is appears that you can only get shade equal to your charisma modifier. Am I reading something wrong here?

Either I forgot to correct it, or you may have missed it (Which is pretty easy) but you get shade equal to your Charisma score, so up to 20.

Nightblessed - I was bothered seeing this as a level 3 feature at first, since Paladin's typically only get channel divinity at level 3. But in looking at it it doesn't seem to increase power overall, so sure why not.
Does Magical Darkvision all you to see through magical darkness? What is magical darkvision? Can it be suppressed via dispel magic?

Yes, it lets you see through magical darkness. It's like that one Eldritch Invocation. Uhhh, iunno how dispel magic interacts with class features. Antimagic field...maybe?

Nightnail - You can draw in 2 creatures with this. If you use smite do you smite both creatures? If you do, does it use 1 slot or 2? The save they make, what is the type of save they make? Also, I don't foresee anyone successfully making the save vs the total damage. That can get pretty high with a paladin smiting.

10 if you blow your whole shade pool. Potentially more if you use the level 15 feature. Uh, probably a Con save. I might leave off the smite bit, then. You're probably right. Though you would be blowing a smite just to guarantee the effect, more or less. The save would be...1d12+5? If you're using a greatsword? And you have to leave the sword there.

Together in Dark - Per above, does this let you see through magical darkness? Also, what happens to an ally that has night vision?

Yes. Allies who already have darkvision at or beyond the stated ranged gain the ability to see through magical darkness up to the stated range.

We are the Knight - This is really situational for a 20th level capstone. The overall power seems fine, but generally I see Paladin 20th level abilities as one you can easily use every day. Still, it's a capstone and 99% of people will never see it.

Think about it, though. You can see fully across the barrier. You can use it to bypass and scout anything and anywhere that isn't also defended from the Shadow side. You can have your party pop up right next to the king, then pop out again. You could escape certain death by just hanging out in the Plane of Shadow (Though it, of course, has its own hazards...).

There is the Shade-refresh, though. I imagine that would get used all the time.

This is by far the most gritty and dark Paladin I've seen. It would be a blast to roleplay.

Thank . Remember though, you're supposed to make everyone less afraid of the dark, and you're not allowed to spook your enemies with it! What do you think about the spells?

[theVoidWatches]

I like the idea of a Bard that gains more power as he gains renown with people. It's a good way to run with this contest.

Awe Points - Is that when you roll a 20 on the die or you get a 20 or more on the results of the skill check. Based on how powerful the Awe Point abilities are, I'm going to guess that it's an actual roll of a 20 on the die. Other than that this seems pretty cool. It may be to powerful, but I'm not willing to run the numbers on how often you would roll a 20 on a skill check (and I know that a Bard isn't laying out massive damage

Yeah, it's only supposed to be when you get an actual 20.

Limited Energy - You forgot to mention the level here.
Dance Around Danger - Missing a cost here.

Fixed.

My guts says that while I was playing this class, I wouldn't be using the limited Energy all that often since the awe point passive abilities are so powerful. It would likely be "get to the top of my range as quickly as possible, then use 1. Repeat"

Do you think it might feel better if instead of earning 1 Awe Point each time, you earned 1d4, with your maximum being your Bard Level? With the costs for the bonuses being increased as well, of course? That would reduce the relative cost of the Limited Energy abilities.

[nickl_2000]

Do you think it might feel better if instead of earning 1 Awe Point each time, you earned 1d4, with your maximum being your Bard Level? With the costs for the bonuses being increased as well, of course? That would reduce the relative cost of the Limited Energy abilities.

Yes, 100% that would be better in my mind. Also, what in the world was that link you included in my quote? Was that something you posted on accident or was my account hacked in some way?

[theVoidWatches]

Accidental - it was the link to a particular episode of a show which is on a subscription streaming network, which I had copied to send to a friend. Didn't realize it ended up here also.

[Fnissalot]

Added the last parts to the way of elemental bands. I am not satisfied, with current iteration, I still like the base mechanic of the point pushing around the circle but I am afraid that the actual spending of it will feel the same as the four elements monk, thus not solving what I am trying to work around.

[nickl_2000]

Added the last parts to the way of elemental bands. I am not satisfied, with current iteration, I still like the base mechanic of the point pushing around the circle but I am afraid that the actual spending of it will feel the same as the four elements monk, thus not solving what I am trying to work around.

Are you ready for comments as is then or would you rather wait until you are more satisfied?

[Fnissalot]

Are you ready for comments as is then or would you rather wait until you are more satisfied?

Comment on it as it is, as it probably helps more in how I should continue with it?

[Phhase]

Some thoughts:

Spoiler: Great Dragon Warlock

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As it's pretty much Draconic Sorcerer but a warlock, I feel like this would require playtesting to really get a handle on. But it seems like it'd work ok. You need to specify the damage amount dealt by the breath weapon boon though. Have you considered making some Eldritch invocations? You could make some cool breath variants.

Spoiler: Combo Fighter

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This is a pretty cool concept. Needs formatting though. Not everything needs be in a spoiler. Probably just the finishers. Speaking of, they're pretty cool, but I have a few pointers.

>Deft volley
What's it for? It seems quite weak

>Buried Axe
Good, but why necrotic damage? Wouldn't it be the same physical type as the weapon? Probably slashing, considering it's an axe finisher.

>Signature Slash
Hilarious Zorro-inspired move. Don't even care it doesn't do real damage, it's perfect for style. The secondary effect though, what's that supposed to be? Seems a little odd.

>Skewer
Again not sure about the necrotic damage. As an aside, I feel like one of the spear finishers should impale the target, autograppling them until they get pulled off (which deals more damage). Maybe the level 3 one. Seems a little odd for a spear/polearm to barge things out of the way.


>Vaccum Slash
Fix wording. Try "Each attack deals its weapon's dice plus your proficiency." Not really sure about the Force damage either. Also consider not making this quite as restrictive with respect to damage stacking. Its seems a bit of a downer (though I totally understand the desire to prevent a Magic Missile sort of situation).

>Ragdoll
PFAHAHAH

>Rival
I'm not sure how I feel about a whole class feature dedicated to being Gary, but it's pretty funny regardless.

You also might want to consider axing Iron Fists. If you want to punch things, you usually take Monk levels (Which would Synergize amazingly due to Flurry of blows). On the whole, it's going to a good place!

Spoiler: Spellbound Barbarian

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Pretty cool concept right here. Gonna hafta see the metasurges before I can really tell for sure though. As is, I'm still giggling at the thought of a barbarian sitting in front of a magic item and growling at it for 10 minutes until it tells him what it does.

Spoiler: Oath of Light

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Ah yes, my yang.

>Deity's Light
While it sounds good, in practice, it might be a little hard to keep track of how much time has passed. Does this effectively mean you have 12 points every day? If you stand beside a torch constantly during the night, or in the dark, does that count? If the Light cantrip counts, does that mean you get up to 24 points per day/night cycle? Consider adjusting this.

>Channel Divinity
Seems good. Not sure what the point of "Touching an object" for Sun Burst is if it's an Instantaneous effect, though.

>Hurling Smite
Pew!

>Burning Aura
Needs more description on how this works. Does it have limits? Does the heat Metal effect require concentration? You may want to use a different spell effect. Heat Metal seems a little odd to me.

>Beacon of Light
Does "Your area of Light" mean the 60 feet of bright light or the whole 120ft of the aura? How many creatures can you blind at once? Otherwise, seems good.

Overall, on a good path. Needs a little something though.

Gonna take me a bit to get through Elemental Bands...looking forward to it though! In the meantime, anyone else have thoughts on Oath of the Enshaedn?

[BerzerkerUnit]

@Phhase thanks for your feedback!

I’ll get to wording and formatting soon. Some clarification:

Deft Volley is for putting down a bunch of weak enemies. Extra good if your DM uses a minion rule, but if you have the chance to poison a set of ammo first it can guarantee application. It doesn’t have a fear mechanic but a sudden unavoidable peppering might communicate a superior threat.

Buried Axe and Skewer deal Necrotic damage to simulate blood loss (based on how vampire bites work). It’s a little added utility for damaging creatures with resistances.

Signature Slash is a marking mechanic, you irritate the foe so they focus on you.

Vacuum Slash is supposed to be static damage regardless of weapon and force damage was chosen because the attack its modeling is the kind that ignores all but the most absurd boss defenses.

Iron Fists... i understand that a lot of folks think you should have to MC monk to punch things good, but I wanted viable unarmed damage to be an option and you don’t get that without 17 levels of Monk. Just co-opting the damage dice (since pro boxers are not Monks) for this fighter and allowing fists to function as TWF weapons (so you can bonus action off hand attack, add stat bonus damage if you took the style and benefit from the feats which can shore up your unarmored AC). It requires a much greater investment for barely comparable effect.

[nickl_2000]

Catching up as of my morning of 9/23, if I have missed you let me know.

Spoiler: Way of the Elemental Bands

Show

I'll do my best here in reading and commenting. This appears to be pretty complicated when it comes to bookkeeping and understanding how it will work, and my brain is having some issue comprehending all of it. Which tells me that the logistics could be simplified down somewhat or re-written to be more clear (or maybe it's pre-coffee issues, but if pre-coffee me is having trouble understanding it I know others will as well).

So, you have 2x your proficiency in elemental points. I don't see how they are initially split. Also, I see in your rules that some things spent points in the opposing band. How and when do you get those points back? Also, what does it take to change the order of the bands? Can you do it only at rests, or as an action?

Scholar of Nature's Forces - This seems pretty limited to me. I wouldn't mind seeing it expanded a little bit to be more inclusive.

Elemental Band Features -
My only possible concern here on the spells is that you can cast some of the spells as a monk sooner than a full caster will be able to do it. It looks like you did the calculations, but I just wanted to make sure.

Strike of Grasping Clay - It is pretty normal in these that an ally can also break them free with a strength check as well. I would consider either an athletics or acrobatics check to break free. Restrained is a pretty brutal condition, so making it a little bit easier to break out isn't a bad thing.

Strike of Summit’s Gong - This is significantly weaker than the other two I've seen. I personally think that this one is about right for a monk who also has Ki to stun lock and opponent. I would consider reducing the overall amount of time for slow and restrained on continued save failures.

Strike of Crab’s Grasp - What is the range? If they leave range does the effect or or can you just not do damage until you get back into range?

One thing I am noticing for the strikes. Most of them have a longer term affect, if you are going to do that I would look at introducing concentration into it.


I think you have a really solid thing going here, but the rules around the bands and what you can cast and when you can cast it need to be tightened up and simplified.

Spoiler: Druid: The Circle of Eyes

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I don't have a lot to say here. This is a solid subclass, it's interesting, it gives you lots to do, and it just feels right from a balance standpoint. So... ya.... Great job on this one.

[sleepyhead]

Spoiler: Paladin - Oath of Light Critique by Nickl_2000

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Gifts from the Light - So technical from your wording, at 7th level I can spend a long rest in the light and then trade it in for a 5th level spell slot. Probably should have something in here that says you can only gain slots that you have access to.

Sun Burst - It's a little bit odd that you have to spend more Luminous points as you level up and don't really gain much more out of it. It seems like it would be better to set an amount of stored light that this takes (likely 3 since you get it at level 3) and then give it additional damage when you add more luminous points to it.

Hurling Smite - This is a pretty specific feature and wouldn't end up being used all the time. It seems like it would be better to have a cost to hurl a ball, which does a certainly amount of damage. Then allow the Paladin to use Divine Smite or a smite spell on hit. It would simplify the feature some and would make it usable more often as well.

Burning aura - What is affected by the heat metal spell? Armor, weapons? Do you choose as the paladin or is it all metal on the body? What happens in rounds after the first (heat metal requires a bonus action after the first round to do more damage), but you could be affecting 5 people at the same time.

Beacon of Light - Needs a cannot be done until you finish a long rest afterwards.
Blind affect should have an additional save each round.
This is pretty powerful, even for a capstone. I wouldn't mind seeing 1 of the bullet points dropped off to balance it a tiny bit.

Gifts from the light- done
Sun Burst- Doesn't require any Luminous Points to activate?
Hurling Smite- Done and done
Burning aura- Changed Mostly Completely
Beacon of Light- Done & done.

Spoiler: Oath of Light Critique by PPhase

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Ah yes, my yang.

>Deity's Light
While it sounds good, in practice, it might be a little hard to keep track of how much time has passed. Does this effectively mean you have 12 points every day? If you stand beside a torch constantly during the night, or in the dark, does that count? If the Light cantrip counts, does that mean you get up to 24 points per day/night cycle? Consider adjusting this.

>Channel Divinity
Seems good. Not sure what the point of "Touching an object" for Sun Burst is if it's an Instantaneous effect, though.

>Hurling Smite
Pew!

>Burning Aura
Needs more description on how this works. Does it have limits? Does the heat Metal effect require concentration? You may want to use a different spell effect. Heat Metal seems a little odd to me.

>Beacon of Light
Does "Your area of Light" mean the 60 feet of bright light or the whole 120ft of the aura? How many creatures can you blind at once? Otherwise, seems good.

Overall, on a good path. Needs a little something though.

Deity's Light- Meant to be you got it all in the first hour of the day or the like, and yes any light sources count's including the light spell.
Channel Divinity- Meant to make it so it's centered around you.
Hurling Smite- Pow!
Burning Aura- Mostly Completely Changed.
Beacon of Light- Bright, and unlimited. Unless unlimited is to many.

Thanks for critique

[Fnissalot]

Spoiler: Way of the Elemental Bands

Show

I'll do my best here in reading and commenting. This appears to be pretty complicated when it comes to bookkeeping and understanding how it will work, and my brain is having some issue comprehending all of it. Which tells me that the logistics could be simplified down somewhat or re-written to be more clear (or maybe it's pre-coffee issues, but if pre-coffee me is having trouble understanding it I know others will as well).

So, you have 2x your proficiency in elemental points. I don't see how they are initially split. Also, I see in your rules that some things spent points in the opposing band. How and when do you get those points back? Also, what does it take to change the order of the bands? Can you do it only at rests, or as an action?

Scholar of Nature's Forces - This seems pretty limited to me. I wouldn't mind seeing it expanded a little bit to be more inclusive.

Elemental Band Features -
My only possible concern here on the spells is that you can cast some of the spells as a monk sooner than a full caster will be able to do it. It looks like you did the calculations, but I just wanted to make sure.

Strike of Grasping Clay - It is pretty normal in these that an ally can also break them free with a strength check as well. I would consider either an athletics or acrobatics check to break free. Restrained is a pretty brutal condition, so making it a little bit easier to break out isn't a bad thing.

Strike of Summit’s Gong - This is significantly weaker than the other two I've seen. I personally think that this one is about right for a monk who also has Ki to stun lock and opponent. I would consider reducing the overall amount of time for slow and restrained on continued save failures.

Strike of Crab’s Grasp - What is the range? If they leave range does the effect or or can you just not do damage until you get back into range?

One thing I am noticing for the strikes. Most of them have a longer term affect, if you are going to do that I would look at introducing concentration into it.

I think you have a really solid thing going here, but the rules around the bands and what you can cast and when you can cast it need to be tightened up and simplified.

Cool! Things to think about. Thanks for the feedback

The order of the bands are locked as shown in the image. You cannot change the order of them. You are supposed to be free to place your points however you wish. Features that push points move the points to the next ring on the diagram, while features that also spend points, removes the points from the opposing element. For example, Fists like Crushing Hail requires you to have 1 point in water and 1 point in fire. When you use it, the point in water is moved to earth while the point in fire is removed. In the beginning, you only get the spent points back on a long rest, while at 6th and 17th level, you get new ways to get them back. Having the diagram in front of you with tokens representing your elemental points feels almost mandatory to make it work as it is. Does this explain the main mechanic of the class better? Or does it still need simplifying?

Is it better/simpler to write Spend 1 water and 1 fire and gain 1 earth than Push 1 water, spend 1 fire?

About spell levels, I think all spells comes in later than a full caster gets them but I might have missed some. Storm sphere for example requires a total of 10 elemental points, or 5 in proficiency bonus to cast. This subclass can cast it at 13 while a full caster would be able to cast it 7. Shatter can be cast at 5 while a full caster gets it at 3. If I missed one, let me know and I will get to changing it.

Scholar of Nature's Forces is meant as a ribbon. The main power at level 11 is the upgrades to the arm features; the ability to double push the basic elemental powers.

I was thinking about adding concentration to the strikes or limiting them so they only lasts at most 1 turn and you can only use one of them in a turn. I wasn't sure about it so I left it as it is, but since you bring it up I will do something about it.

Summit's Gong was one of the first ones I wrote and now that I look back at it, it appears lackluster. Crab's grasp was supposed to be 30 feet. Thanks for spotting these misses.

[nickl_2000]

Cool! Things to think about. Thanks for the feedback

The order of the bands are locked as shown in the image. You cannot change the order of them. You are supposed to be free to place your points however you wish. Features that push points move the points to the next ring on the diagram, while features that also spend points, removes the points from the opposing element. For example, Fists like Crushing Hail requires you to have 1 point in water and 1 point in fire. When you use it, the point in water is moved to earth while the point in fire is removed. In the beginning, you only get the spent points back on a long rest, while at 6th and 17th level, you get new ways to get them back. Having the diagram in front of you with tokens representing your elemental points feels almost mandatory to make it work as it is. Does this explain the main mechanic of the class better? Or does it still need simplifying?

So ya... I did this early in the morning at work. Apparently work completely blocked the image, so that may have cleared up a lot of confusion. I will try and check that out tonight so I can give a better answer.

[SleeplessWriter]

Spoiler: Druid: The Circle of Eyes

Show

I don't have a lot to say here. This is a solid subclass, it's interesting, it gives you lots to do, and it just feels right from a balance standpoint. So... ya.... Great job on this one.

Thanks! I actually just threw the whole thing together last night sort of out of nowhere. The thing I'm most unsure of is the wording on Gaze Beyond the Veil, but I think it'll be alright as is for now. I also thought of adding a bit to Gaze Beyond the Veil to let them get some insight on the creature/object's future, but I decided not to try and tackle that hairy beast. Any insight (heh) on how I could do that without becoming broken are welcome.
Also, should I limit Shared Insight to one creature at a time, or is it fine as is?

[sengmeng]

As it's pretty much Draconic Sorcerer but a warlock, I feel like this would require playtesting to really get a handle on. But it seems like it'd work ok. You need to specify the damage amount dealt by the breath weapon boon though. Have you considered making some Eldritch invocations? You could make some cool breath variants.

I did consider exactly that and now I did actually do it lol.

[Nicrosil]

Alright, made some adjustments to the Spellbound Barbarian. I added the Metasurge effects, clarified some features, and buffed the 14th level ability. I decided to make Surge points based on barbarian level and refresh on a long rest, because trying to figure out how to balance it per rage broke my brain . But, you also get Con modifier Surge points once per short rest, since you don't have proper spell slots you can melt down into points. I made sure to include a line about having a maximum number of Surge points equal to your barbarian level, to try to prevent coffeelock-esque shenanigans.

That being said, I'm still unsure on the costs for the Metasurge abilities. I roughly based it around the cost of equivalent Metamagic abilities, but I'm not sure about the more custom stuff like Tearing Surge or Cursed Surge. I'm also unsure about the 14th level abilities. A 5th level sorcerer can turn 5 sorcery points into a third level fireball; is that equivalent to a 14th level barbarian spending 8 surge points into a third level fireball that deals force damage?

EDIT: Oof, I just realized, at low levels it's entirely possible your Con modifier is higher than your level... Maybe make the per-short rest refresh mechanic give you a number of surge points equal to your proficiency bonus? Or would that run into problems with multiclassing? I mean, it's not really an issue, because your max number of points is your barbarian level, but it still feels weird that you can "waste" points... Maybe cut it entirely? Or make it once per long rest? Hmm...

[Phhase]

Maybe make the per-short rest refresh mechanic give you a number of surge points equal to your proficiency bonus?

I think that sounds good. Isn't your proficiency bonus calculated by your total level?

[theVoidWatches]

Does anyone other than Nickl have thoughts on the College of Plautus?

I'm putting together feedback on everyone else's but it's taking a while because I've been busy at work.

[Phhase]

Does anyone other than Nickl have thoughts on the College of Plautus?

I'm putting together feedback on everyone else's but it's taking a while because I've been busy at work.

Sure, absolutely!

(Reading...)

A very interesting read. You've got a great deal of good RP'ing opportunities here. There's some great potential for pro wrestler or gladiator or Robin Hood or what have you here.

>Extended Death Scene
PFFFFFFFFF Nice. Maybe add a corollary that you must make a traditional Protagonist's Dramatic Speech about heroic willpower and resilience to regain health.

Nomination is something whose value I cannot whatsoever judge. On the one hand, it could be REALLY awesome. On the other, it might feel frustrating, or constraining. Needs testing I guess. Definitely keep it in the entry though.

>Act Like You Know
"You know, I'm something of an arcanist myself..."

Innate Awe seems a little underwhelming to me at first. I know it gives you instant access to Limited Energy and Inspired Words right off the bat, which is great, pretty powerful, but it doesn't really feel like a proper capstone. What if you could summon a phantom crowd? That sounds like it would be really cool. You walk alone into the monster's lair and they hear you from a mile away by the cheers and howls, but cannot help but stare as you stride in to challenge their champion with the brash confidence of a winner. An enthralling effect maybe?

You've got a really good balance here, of social and combat power, though I think it leans a little towards combat. One thing I'd like to see is a better way of gaining awe points for social interaction. Currently, the only way is to get a 20 on a check, at which point, you've already succeeded anyway. Perhaps if you have awe points when entering a town or bunch of people, you can cash out the awe points? Perhaps not. Anyways, I feel like there should be a way this class can contribute while in town and not out slaying things.

One other thing I'd like is a way to "Play to the crowd" I feel it's really the only thing missing thematically from an otherwise well-rounded subclass. Perhaps a fear effect where you stoke the crowd's roar? Or perhaps something where if you take the Dodge action and enemies miss their attacks, you get some sort of benefit for being stylish? Perhaps even a "Say My Name" sort of thing where everyone chants your name?

Ooh, and while you're at it, what about a way to gamble your Awe points? Spend X to try some daring maneuver, and gain Y if you succeed, but lose Z if you fail? That sounds super thematic. "Don't let this man distract you from the fact that in 1998, The Belowbringer threw Goblinkind off Baator In A Cell, and plummeted 20ft through an announcer's table!"
All in all, purty sweet!

Where's the name come from, by the way?