D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[BerzerkerUnit]

I have posted my first shot at the Artificer - Shadow Weaver. This is my first artificer subclass and I'm not completely sure of it yet. Please take a look and rip it apart, if it doesn't seem to fit please let me know.



Forget it, I just don't like it and when I don't like something it never turns out all that well. I'm going to do something else.

Stealing Artificer Shadoweaver as a name for an illusionist clothier that can create elaborate costumes that grant monster attacks, stealth, teleportation, and create undead.

[nickl_2000]

Stealing Artificer Shadoweaver as a name for an illusionist clothier that can create elaborate costumes that grant monster attacks, stealth, teleportation, and create undead.

Cheers to you I liked the name, just not the way the subclass turned out. It just didn't feel like it fit the theme of an artificer.

[nickl_2000]

I've put in a new subclass that I like much better than I did before. So, I present my subclass the Madness Domain.




Review Time:

Spoiler: Froghemiath Fighter

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First of all, it's a delightful image and really fitting to the theme. Kudos there.
Snatching Tongue - a 15 foot range is pretty big here, but considering the damage is only 1d6 and it must be strength based it should work perfectly fine.

Swallowed - Can the creature that was swallowed attack you? Restrained doesn't prevent someone from attacking and that is one of the defenses when you are swallowed by someone? Based on the fact that they are transported to demi-plane it seems like it should be no, but I don't know and it would be nice to be spelled out. Also, does anything special happen if you kill them in your "stomach" or do you just need to regurgitate them and move on with life?

Froghemoth of the Man - This seems like a lot, even for level 15. The damage increase I absolutely get and they keep you on par with weapons at this point. The problem I have is that you are getting those as well as resistance to two different damage types. Personal opinion is that it's going to far.

Summon Froghemoth - is summoning a CR10 creature to much at level 18? I'm not really sure. It's a really high level ability and only for a minute so it is likely fine. I'm not really sure on this one though.

Spoiler: Mean Green Warlock Mother (or something like that)

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Eclipse Spawn - I think this needs to be spelled out more or split up into different abilities. Advantage and expertise on a check is pretty good, especially since you don't need prof to begin with to get it. However, it's at a cost so it is likely fine. However, I am not sure how it works with storing blood from attacks and stuff like that. If you have the ability to use the blood from the plant attack instead of your own HP this needs to be reduced to expertise or advantage, not both.

As for the plant attack, it's pretty powerful at level 1 but warlocks have a lot of bonus action competition so it should be fine in the long run. Is using the "blood" from this attack the same as sacrificing 1 hp? if it is you can easily get blood stored this way from killing rats or birds or other things. So, it will require an agreement from the player and DM for how this is used.

Doom Bud - There is no natural way for the bud to grapple someone other than a grapple check (then you should define athletics). Also, the +6 will be good when you are level 6, but a +6 to attack at higher levels will be pretty worthless.


Can blood gained from a tentacle attack be used in place of HP in higher level abilities? Because if so the capstone duplicate will absolutely fail the bag of rats test.

I haven't run the numbers, but Familiar Ascension seems incredibly powerful at level 7 (and not at all so when they are a lower level).

[BerzerkerUnit]

I've put in a new subclass that I like much better than I did before. So, I present my subclass the Madness Domain.




Review Time:

Spoiler: Mean Green Warlock Mother (or something like that)

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Eclipse Spawn - I think this needs to be spelled out more or split up into different abilities. Advantage and expertise on a check is pretty good, especially since you don't need prof to begin with to get it. However, it's at a cost so it is likely fine. However, I am not sure how it works with storing blood from attacks and stuff like that. If you have the ability to use the blood from the plant attack instead of your own HP this needs to be reduced to expertise or advantage, not both.

Spoiler: Blood Storing

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The Amount of Blood you can store equals your level. I have to add some text clarifying that it has to come from living creatures and you lose it at the end of your next rest. That should mostly solve the bag of rats issue too, but as a Warlock patron like this, it should turn up its nose at most nonhumanoid blood out of combat.

As for the plant attack, it's pretty powerful at level 1 but warlocks have a lot of bonus action competition so it should be fine in the long run. Is using the "blood" from this attack the same as sacrificing 1 hp? if it is you can easily get blood stored this way from killing rats or birds or other things. So, it will require an agreement from the player and DM for how this is used.

Spoiler: Response

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Yes, the intent is that you allow your familiar to be out hunting small prey during short downtimes, but since stored blood disappears after a rest you have to decide if you want healing and spell slots, or more buffer hp for the features.

Doom Bud - There is no natural way for the bud to grapple someone other than a grapple check (then you should define athletics). Also, the +6 will be good when you are level 6, but a +6 to attack at higher levels will be pretty worthless.

Spoiler: Doom Bud Response

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I’ll double check the entry (text maybe got cut off) but it grapples when it hits with the bites.

+6 is a low bonus to hit, but their defenses scale and automatic grapple on a hit is really good. you can reliably drop 1/round after level 10 as long as your familiar is slapping things every round. They’re immobile and indiscriminate.

Can blood gained from a tentacle attack be used in place of HP in higher level abilities? Because if so the capstone duplicate will absolutely fail the bag of rats test.

Spoiler: Response

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Yes, Stored Blood can be used to create the Doom Buds or vegelacrum, but, the Vegelacrum takes an hour to create and costs 20, so it isn’t “free” until 20th level and you have to kill 5 commoners to make it.

I haven't run the numbers, but Familiar Ascension seems incredibly powerful at level 7 (and not at all so when they are a lower level).

Spoiler: Familiar Ascension Response

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It’s supposed to have a 7th Level prereq. Maybe you mean it’s weak at upper levels? But the Myconid Sovereign can animate corpses, other options are suitable as steeds. Even at high level being able to throw a dinosaur at a bad guy while you run away is good. Willowisps are nasty, and effects that don’t put right slay the creature just pop the transformation and your Familiar is fine (rather than eating rollover damage). Also, the Demand Violence cantrip it grants is very strong if your familiar isn’t a total wimp.

Thanks so much for your feedback. I really like the Madness Domain.

Spoiler: critiques and tweaks

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Damaging Distraction
As written there’s an extra step or two of math involved to figure out if your d4 caused a miss.

Given the limit on Distracting Whispers I’d go with the following (and will adjust as I lift this domain almost whole cloth for my next campaign, it’s really very good).

Psychic Feedback
When a creature affected by your Distracting Whispers feature damages you, they take an equal amount of Psychic damage.

This makes Distracting Whispers discourage wailing on you which means allies benefit from the -d4 And prevents the addition of a roll where there used to be none. You could where light armor and l stack punishing spells like hellish rebuke and Armor of Agathys, then inflate your HP with Aid so hitting you is just the worst idea. You start face tanking Giants and Bulletes and Hydras because they die after a full attack rotation.

Seriously, great work.

[RickAsWritten]

Review Time:

Spoiler: Froghemiath Fighter

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First of all, it's a delightful image and really fitting to the theme. Kudos there.
Snatching Tongue - a 15 foot range is pretty big here, but considering the damage is only 1d6 and it must be strength based it should work perfectly fine.

Swallowed - Can the creature that was swallowed attack you? Restrained doesn't prevent someone from attacking and that is one of the defenses when you are swallowed by someone? Based on the fact that they are transported to demi-plane it seems like it should be no, but I don't know and it would be nice to be spelled out. Also, does anything special happen if you kill them in your "stomach" or do you just need to regurgitate them and move on with life?

Froghemoth of the Man - This seems like a lot, even for level 15. The damage increase I absolutely get and they keep you on par with weapons at this point. The problem I have is that you are getting those as well as resistance to two different damage types. Personal opinion is that it's going to far.

Summon Froghemoth - is summoning a CR10 creature to much at level 18? I'm not really sure. It's a really high level ability and only for a minute so it is likely fine. I'm not really sure on this one though.

Thanks for the feedback.

Froghemon, Froghemiath, Slurpy Froggy Alien-Guy. I'm still not sold on the name. I kept running through portmanteaus and suffixes but never found one I loved. I might switch it to your suggestion, or Froghemant.

For Swallowed, good point. I hadn't thought of that scenario. The actual creature can be attacked from inside, but that's in a normal stomach. I felt like I needed to make it a demi-plane for this, because the idea that a person could hold an entire other person in their stomach, even if it was a stretchy frog gullet, to be too ridiculous. Maybe a swallowed creature is blinded and incapacitated, instead of blinded and restrained? Either that or allow attacks from in your belly. I shall ponder it.
I'll add a clause for ingested death.

For the level 15, I was pretty much just copy-and-pasting from the froghemoth stat block at that point. I have no problem dropping one or both resistances. I'll make it lightning resistance only for now, and see what you and others think. Plus lighting is the iconic damage for froghemoths.

For the capstone, there was three drafts. Summon one, polymorph into one, or summon small portals that have tentacles that whip out to attack. I went with summon because it seemed like the most fun, but I'm in the same boat as you; I don't know if that is way too strong or not.

[theVoidWatches]

Threw out my hero subclass - I ended up doing it for the Fighter. It's a different interpretation of "beyond" than what other people went with, but I couldn't get my mind off of it.

Speaking of what other people went with, feedback!

Spoiler: Froghemoth

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Be a frog monster! Very fun.
Starts off with a better whip as an unarmed attack as well as some flavor, which is nice.
The swallow attack seems a little complex, but I'm not sure how it could be simplified.
The level 10 feature is pretty funky but Froghemoths are also funky, so that's fine.
Boosting all your stuff at level 15 is dull but fine.
I'm not sure about summoning another Froghemoth as the capstone - feels sudden to have it be a thing you summon when you've just been becoming one, so far. I'd suggest giving a 1/long rest wild shape into one instead.

Spoiler: The Mean Green Mother From Outer Space

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Eclipse Spawn is pretty complicated, I don't know if I like that. It's definitely flavorful, though. Should its attack maybe work with spell attacks as well as the attack action?
The level 14 feature could probably be rendered more simply as casting Simulacrum on you with some extras.
Is this inspired by Little Shop of Horrors at all?

Spoiler: Madness Domain

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I like the proficiencies/alt damage feature, very flavorful.
Do clerics get many psychic damage spells? I'm not thinking of many off the top of my head, but I'm not super familiar with them.
This subclass relies on being in melee to use some of its features (Distracting Whispers/Dampening Distraction, Inflict Madness) but gets Potent Spellcasting. It should maybe get the other feature, so it can fight in melee more effectively.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Thanks for the feedback.

Froghemon, Froghemiath, Slurpy Froggy Alien-Guy. I'm still not sold on the name. I kept running through portmanteaus and suffixes but never found one I loved. I might switch it to your suggestion, or Froghemant.

For Swallowed, good point. I hadn't thought of that scenario. The actual creature can be attacked from inside, but that's in a normal stomach. I felt like I needed to make it a demi-plane for this, because the idea that a person could hold an entire other person in their stomach, even if it was a stretchy frog gullet, to be too ridiculous. Maybe a swallowed creature is blinded and incapacitated, instead of blinded and restrained? Either that or allow attacks from in your belly. I shall ponder it.
I'll add a clause for ingested death.

For the level 15, I was pretty much just copy-and-pasting from the froghemoth stat block at that point. I have no problem dropping one or both resistances. I'll make it lightning resistance only for now, and see what you and others think. Plus lighting is the iconic damage for froghemoths.

For the capstone, there was three drafts. Summon one, polymorph into one, or summon small portals that have tentacles that whip out to attack. I went with summon because it seemed like the most fun, but I'm in the same boat as you; I don't know if that is way too strong or not.

It’s not, Banish, Disintegrate, Finger of Death, Contagion, an army of Imps. There are so many ways to deal with a sudden powerful summon that make players say “oof, I’m glad that wasn’t used on me...”

[nickl_2000]

Thanks so much for your feedback. I really like the Madness Domain.

Spoiler: critiques and tweaks

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Damaging Distraction
As written there’s an extra step or two of math involved to figure out if your d4 caused a miss.

Given the limit on Distracting Whispers I’d go with the following (and will adjust as I lift this domain almost whole cloth for my next campaign, it’s really very good).

Psychic Feedback
When a creature affected by your Distracting Whispers feature damages you, they take an equal amount of Psychic damage.

This makes Distracting Whispers discourage wailing on you which means allies benefit from the -d4 And prevents the addition of a roll where there used to be none. You could where light armor and l stack punishing spells like hellish rebuke and Armor of Agathys, then inflate your HP with Aid so hitting you is just the worst idea. You start face tanking Giants and Bulletes and Hydras because they die after a full attack rotation.

Seriously, great work.

Thanks, allowing it in your game is one of the biggest compliments you can give.

I can see what you are saying about the complications for damaging distraction. Part of my goal with this ability is that it would be extremely swingy (representing the madness of the subclass and the PC in general). Having that 1d4 difference be what causes the damage to the attacker gives that amount of swing that I was seeking. I will think it through and see if I can simplify it some, but no promises.

Threw out my hero subclass - I ended up doing it for the Fighter. It's a different interpretation of "beyond" than what other people went with, but I couldn't get my mind off of it.

Speaking of what other people went with, feedback!


I like the proficiencies/alt damage feature, very flavorful.
Do clerics get many psychic damage spells? I'm not thinking of many off the top of my head, but I'm not super familiar with them.
This subclass relies on being in melee to use some of its features (Distracting Whispers/Dampening Distraction, Inflict Madness) but gets Potent Spellcasting. It should maybe get the other feature, so it can fight in melee more effectively.

There aren't a lot of psychic damage spells out there, which is why I gave access via domain spells (which were screwed up before and fixed now). However, that is also why I added in psychic damage to sacred flame and made channel divinity work on psychic damage from abilities (level 6 ability). You do have access to these spells that do psychic damage.
Dissonant Whispers
Phantasmal Force
Phantasmal Killer
Synaptic Syntax


That's interesting about the level 8 feature. I went with casting because it allows your to do more psychic damage as a class, but you have a solid point about being a melee as a subclass. I guess I just expect that melee damage subclass features would get either martial weapons, heavy armor, or both at level 1 (which didn't seem fitting to me). Do you think that this class should get access to martial weapons at level 1 as well then?

[BerzerkerUnit]

Threw out my hero subclass - I ended up doing it for the Fighter. It's a different interpretation of "beyond" than what other people went with, but I couldn't get my mind off of it.

Speaking of what other people went with, feedback!

Spoiler: The Mean Green Mother From Outer Space

Show

Eclipse Spawn is pretty complicated, I don't know if I like that. It's definitely flavorful, though. Should its attack maybe work with spell attacks as well as the attack action?
The level 14 feature could probably be rendered more simply as casting Simulacrum on you with some extras.
Is this inspired by Little Shop of Horrors at all?

Entirely. All the Feature names are lyrics or callbacks to lyrics.

It’s a bundle of features intended to present Chainlocks with an upgrade on par with Hexblade for bladelocks. I can break it out into separate features if that will make it easier.

I wrote it as I did bc I didn’t want confusion about components, casting times, spell slots, or anything else to come into play. If you gathered it’s very much that spell and intended to function like that spell with the described limits, then my work there is done. But as I said above, I have to add in the clarification that all stored blood goes away after any rest.

[RickAsWritten]

Spoiler: Froghemoth

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Be a frog monster! Very fun.
Starts off with a better whip as an unarmed attack as well as some flavor, which is nice.
The swallow attack seems a little complex, but I'm not sure how it could be simplified.
The level 10 feature is pretty funky but Froghemoths are also funky, so that's fine.
Boosting all your stuff at level 15 is dull but fine.
I'm not sure about summoning another Froghemoth as the capstone - feels sudden to have it be a thing you summon when you've just been becoming one, so far. I'd suggest giving a 1/long rest wild shape into one instead.

Thanks for the feedback. After some consideration I switched the level 18 ability to what you suggested. You are right; it fits with the theme of a froghemoth mutant a lot better than the summon did.

[nickl_2000]

Thanks for the feedback. After some consideration I switched the level 18 ability to what you suggested. You are right; it fits with the theme of a froghemoth mutant a lot better than the summon did.

That is a great choice, I like it much better than the summoning for the capstone. It fits the subclass better and is a cool ability.



Another review

Spoiler: Fighter Subclass: The Undaunted Hero

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Hero Points - Is the cost of each of these 1 Hero point? I'm guessing yes, but you should spell it out.
For criticals this currently can be used if you crit already which leads to a gigantic hit. Also, this could be a massive issue with multiclassing (i.e. an Undaunted Hero 3/Rogue Assassin X, especially at level 20 when you sneak attack for 9d6, crit, double this dice through assassin level 3 ability, double through hero crit HP ability, and double through assassin death strike. I believe on average you would do around 280 damage in a single attack).

Surge of Strength - So this causes you to gain your fighter level in HP at the beginning of your turn, take your turn, then at the end of your turn take your character level in damage. It just doesn't seem all that great to me to be honest. Although it cold be helpful for that killing blow. I would actually allow this to reset your death stabilization saving throws to 0 to make it better).

Flash Step - it's worth considering that you make this as a place you can see rather than "as long as there is a conceivable path that you could have taken to reach your end point." That's a very general rule and there is almost always a conceivable path to get somewhere, even if it's convoluted.



Overall, I really like the take on the beyond theme. It isn't what I was thinking would come out of this content, which is part of why I like the take on it. It's a class that gives lots of options and overall feel pretty well balanced (outside of the multiclass silliness mentioned above).

[HPisBS]

Not sure which idea I should post with a "From Beyond" theme.

I brewed a precog sorcerer years ago that could fit, but

Spoiler: like I've said elsewhere a few times,

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Telekinesis - Sorcerers
Telepathy - Bards
Perspicacity (better senses, able to overcome illusions, etc) and/or Precognition - Monks
Biokinesis - Fighters / Monks
A little of everything, but focus on "psionic constructs" (blades) - Rogues

Pyrokinetics as a psychic ability just seems strange to me. I know it's a thing; I just don't really see it.... But if it needs to be included, then it really does seem Sorcerer-like. Though, Sorcs already have the Draconic Origin to focus on fire (and maybe there'll be a better version of Phoeonix Origin eventually)....

Without any "elemental" mind abilities, telekinesis seems the best match for Sorcerer's raw power theme.

...

If we had Sorcs = pyros, Fighters = telekinesis, and Monks = biokinesis, then I guess that would leave perspicacity / precognition for Rangers? After all, they're supposed to be all in-tune with nature (their surroundings), right?

I think the more appropriate psionic-type power for a Sorcerer would be telekinesis, while Monks or maybe Rangers should be the precogs....

Decisions, decisions.

EDIT:

Would a demonic theme be "Beyond" enough?

And if so, would having posted it elsewhere years ago disqualify it?

[theVoidWatches]

Hero Points - Is the cost of each of these 1 Hero point? I'm guessing yes, but you should spell it out.
For criticals this currently can be used if you crit already which leads to a gigantic hit. Also, this could be a massive issue with multiclassing (i.e. an Undaunted Hero 3/Rogue Assassin X, especially at level 20 when you sneak attack for 9d6, crit, double this dice through assassin level 3 ability, double through hero crit HP ability, and double through assassin death strike. I believe on average you would do around 280 damage in a single attack).

I'll specify that. As for the multiclass silliness, I'm not super worried about that, particularly for level 20 stuff - at level 20 you should be ridiculously powerful - but you're right that having it become an automatic crit is probably better than doubling the damage.

Surge of Strength - So this causes you to gain your fighter level in HP at the beginning of your turn, take your turn, then at the end of your turn take your character level in damage. It just doesn't seem all that great to me to be honest. Although it cold be helpful for that killing blow. I would actually allow this to reset your death stabilization saving throws to 0 to make it better).

The idea is that it lets you push through a wound that should have made you unconscious - restoring your hit points and then losing them again at the end of the turn - but that it doesn't prevent you from potentially dying. A better way of handling it might be to simply say that you remove the unconscious condition.

Flash Step - it's worth considering that you make this as a place you can see rather than "as long as there is a conceivable path that you could have taken to reach your end point." That's a very general rule and there is almost always a conceivable path to get somewhere, even if it's convoluted.

Yeah, that's probably simpler. I'll make the change.

Overall, I really like the take on the beyond theme. It isn't what I was thinking would come out of this content, which is part of why I like the take on it. It's a class that gives lots of options and overall feel pretty well balanced (outside of the multiclass silliness mentioned above).

Thank you!

[Phhase]

Dreamhacker rogue is up! Feedback time!

Spoiler: Jarjar Binks Fighter

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Can't claim to have seen this coming. Interesting idea!

Snatching Tongue: Looks like fun! Could you target items or objects with it? Could you potentially use it as a psuedo-third arm to pull yourself upward, for example? Depending on how flexible this is, I could consider taking this subclass a

Swamp Natural: Nice flavor!

Swallowed: Not quite sure why they need to take extra damage coming back out? Looks pretty good otherwise though.

Man of the Frog: Periscopes up!

Froghemoth of the Man: This looks fine.

Froghemoth Shape: Seems like a logical conclusion to me.

All in all, very unique! I think the tongue's my favorite. Since you can make unarmed strikes with the tongue, could you potentially synergize with Monk levels to make Tongue-slapper monk? Flurry of Tongues? That would be hilarious.

Spoiler: Little Shop Warlock

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Eclipse Spawn: Looks solid, but to clarify, if you draw from the blood pool, can you use that to fuel any ability that says "Feed hp", and will it still reduce YOUR max hp? Or can you entirely replace the cost in this way? Regardless, I'm smelling a bag of rats kind of situation here. Do you have to pay blood costs as a single chunk, or can you do it piecewise?

Feed me!: That's a pretty good summon. How many can you summon at once? That could be pretty strong, bag of rats and all...

I'm Bad: Hmm, a little disappointing. Not bad (ironically), just a little unstylish, compared to the rest.

You don't know what you're messing with: This is why I asked if you could pay blood piecewise. Would you have to be max level in order to pay the blood cost of this ability with gathered blood? Can you do half-and-half? How's that work? Whew, this is pretty strong. It's like a better Simulacrum in some ways. The cantrip limitation is less of a if you consider what spell the Warlock will be casting most of the time (Hint: Rhymes with Felditch Ghast). I do like it though, it's quite cool, especially considering it can also use magic items. Does it look like you? Does it have any plant traits? Can it speak?

Quite the strong summoner here! It opens some interesting possibilities.

Spoiler: Madness Cleric

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Eldritch Knowledge: Seems fine.

Distracting Whispers: Bane as a reaction, interesting. Especially considering it stacks.

Maddening Thoughts: Oof, maximizing damage is pretty strong. Especially if you pair it with something that makes the enemy vulnerable, like an allied Grave Cleric.

Damaging Distraction: Hmmm. While I like this mechanically, the damage scaling, and the (seemingly unlikely) chances of it actually happening enough make me second guess. What about inflicting something like Frightened instead?

Potent Spellcasting: Standard.

Inflict Madness: Looks good. Just needs some formatting. Question though, can you just keep doing this, or are there any limits? If you can just use it over and over, that might be a bit too good.

It's on a good path! Just needs a little fleshing out. That last ability could be really tasty done right.

Spoiler: **** You Fighter

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This is a cute take on the theme! I very much approve.

Hero Points: To be clear, none of the first three uses of Hero Points require any action, right? That said WHOOOO boy this looks like fuuuuuun (No sarcasm!). Any one of these could be a high-level class feature by itself, though I do like the mechanic of taking scaling unavoidable damage in exchange. Finally, a way to force a crit that doesn't rely on Assassin or Divination Wizard! My Ultra Mega Smite build is coming together! How long does Surge of Strength last for? And I assume that the wording is specifically made so that Surge of Strength can't trigger off of Hero Point damage, right? Also, does Hero Point Damage take Temporary Hit Points into account?

If you're having trouble with the wording, I made a similar effect a while back for Circle of Blood Druid. It's slightly different, but may help.

No Speed Limits: So, does this increase your Dex cap permanently, or does it only exceed the cap if you were already at 20 dex before getting the level? What about item stat bonuses? Just needs a little phrasing tightening (Applies to all stat increases detailed here). That said, this also looks like great fun. Nothing personnel, kid! Just one thing: Do you need line of effect or line of sight to your destination? Or could you potentially teleport through, let's say, a closed window? Or just a straight up wall? What if you had an X-ray vision effect? What if you have a burrow speed? What about the upcoming jump feature, does it factor in?

With a Single Bound: >Free Jump. I love it. However, considering there are several other potential sources for this effect (Such as the boots of Striding and Springing), what if instead you instead set your long jump to 30ft and your high jump to 10ft, removed the jump distance/movement limit, or removed the need for a running start? Impossible Strength is also hilarious.

Strong as Steel: Up to 6 unbreakable damage reduction? That potentially stacks with Heavy Armor Master? Bruh. And Break it on my Back is just gravy on top of icing.

Endless Heroism: Usually I roll my eyes when I see the "You always have some of x resource" feature, but this time, considering what you can do with it, I cheer. Heroes never die!

Oh man, I can see this subclass making DMs grit their teeth. You have up to (eventually) 6 presses of various "I win" buttons available on command, with the only penalty being that you need a healer. It sounds hella OP, and hella fun. Sign. Me. Up. Inject that power fantasy directly into my veins, doc. Cause you'd better BELIEVE that I'm the goddamn HERO!

[theVoidWatches]

Dreamhacker rogue is up! Feedback time!

This is a cute take on the theme! I very much approve.

Hero Points: To be clear, none of the first three uses of Hero Points require any action, right? That said WHOOOO boy this looks like fuuuuuun (No sarcasm!). Any one of these could be a high-level class feature by itself, though I do like the mechanic of taking scaling unavoidable damage in exchange. Finally, a way to force a crit that doesn't rely on Assassin or Divination Wizard! My Ultra Mega Smite build is coming together! How long does Surge of Strength last for? And I assume that the wording is specifically made so that Surge of Strength can't trigger off of Hero Point damage, right? Also, does Hero Point Damage take Temporary Hit Points into account?

If you're having trouble with the wording, I made a similar effect a while back for Circle of Blood Druid. It's slightly different, but may help.

They don't currently require an action, although it would be reasonable to make them require a reaction, particularly Surge of Strength. Surge of Strength is supposed to last for the duration of you being at 0 hp - I'll edit to make that clear. And yeah, it can't count off of Hero Point damage. Hero Point damage should ignore Temp HP, as it specifies losing health, not temporary health.

No Speed Limits: So, does this increase your Dex cap permanently, or does it only exceed the cap if you were already at 20 dex before getting the level? What about item stat bonuses? Just needs a little phrasing tightening (Applies to all stat increases detailed here). That said, this also looks like great fun. Nothing personnel, kid! Just one thing: Do you need line of effect or line of sight to your destination? Or could you potentially teleport through, let's say, a closed window? Or just a straight up wall? What if you had an X-ray vision effect? What if you have a burrow speed? What about the upcoming jump feature, does it factor in?

As worded, I believe it only increases your Dex Cap if you were already at 20 Dex. That's the intention, anyway - it's a nice bonus regardless, but it does more if you're focusing on Dex.
I'm not sure how to write the teleport feature in a way that's simple and makes sense. The idea is that you're physically moving, so you logically shouldn't be able to teleport through a wall or a window. But it's hard to phrase the idea that you need to be able to physically reach a place to teleport there. If you have any suggestions about how to phrase it better, I'll happily take them.

With a Single Bound: >Free Jump. I love it. However, considering there are several other potential sources for this effect (Such as the boots of Striding and Springing), what if instead you instead set your long jump to 30ft and your high jump to 10ft, removed the jump distance/movement limit, or removed the need for a running start? Impossible Strength is also hilarious.

I figured giving a free Jump effect was the simplest way of handling it precisely because it already existed, and things like the boots mean that having it freely isn't considered a huge problem. On the other hand, writing out the effect would mean it was no longer magical, while free Jump is, and most of this class is non-magical (just anime as hell). I might switch that.
Similar to No Speed Limits, I want it to be a scaling effect rather than a flat 'set your X to Y' so that it rewards people who're invested into strength more.

Strong as Steel: Up to 6 unbreakable damage reduction? That potentially stacks with Heavy Armor Master? Bruh. And Break it on my Back is just gravy on top of icing.

It sounds nice, but at level 15 you'll be fighting monsters who throw out 90-something damage around, according to the DMG. Dropping the damage by a bit is nice but it's nothing the barbarian hasn't been doing since level 1. And sure, that damage tends to get split up, but still - an adult green dragon would hit a barbarian for a bite + a claw + a claw, 17+7+13+13 damage for a total of 50, halved to 25. The hero would take 11+1+7+7 from that, a total of 26. It comes out to about the same. Unless you're using Heavy Armor Master which saves you another 9 points, but that's investing a feat into it, so it's probably fine.
Similar to Surge of Strength, Break it on my Back won't work against Hero Point damage.

Endless Heroism: Usually I roll my eyes when I see the "You always have some of x resource" feature, but this time, considering what you can do with it, I cheer. Heroes never die!

It's the boring capstone, yeah, but it's the right one.

Oh man, I can see this subclass making DMs grit their teeth. You have up to (eventually) 6 presses of various "I win" buttons available on command, with the only penalty being that you need a healer. It sounds hella OP, and hella fun. Sign. Me. Up. Inject that power fantasy directly into my veins, doc. Cause you'd better BELIEVE that I'm the goddamn HERO!

I'm not sure if it would be OP, to be honest - I think the most powerful thing here is extra action surges, because of how relatively early you can get them. On the other hand, Action Surge is best for spellcasters who get to cast extra spells (meaning multiclassing issues - along with having to be MAD across 3 stats, you'd be delaying your spellcasting progression by 3 levels) and fighters who get to attack tons of times (meaning that you're doing what the class is meant to do), so... even that's probably okay.
Guaranteed criticals would be very tempting for rogues and paladins, but... again, you're delaying the progression of sneak attack/higher level smites.
But yes, it's definitely meant to feel like a OP power fantasy that will let your physical fighter feel on the same tier as a high-level wizard. I just hope it lives up to that!

[BerzerkerUnit]

Dreamhacker rogue is up! Feedback time!

Spoiler: Little Shop Warlock

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Eclipse Spawn: Looks solid, but to clarify, if you draw from the blood pool, can you use that to fuel any ability that says "Feed hp", and will it still reduce YOUR max hp? Or can you entirely replace the cost in this way? Regardless, I'm smelling a bag of rats kind of situation here. Do you have to pay blood costs as a single chunk, or can you do it piecewise?

Feed me!: That's a pretty good summon. How many can you summon at once? That could be pretty strong, bag of rats and all...

I'm Bad: Hmm, a little disappointing. Not bad (ironically), just a little unstylish, compared to the rest.

You don't know what you're messing with: This is why I asked if you could pay blood piecewise. Would you have to be max level in order to pay the blood cost of this ability with gathered blood? Can you do half-and-half? How's that work? Whew, this is pretty strong. It's like a better Simulacrum in some ways. The cantrip limitation is less of a if you consider what spell the Warlock will be casting most of the time (Hint: Rhymes with Felditch Ghast). I do like it though, it's quite cool, especially considering it can also use magic items. Does it look like you? Does it have any plant traits? Can it speak?

Quite the strong summoner here! It opens some interesting possibilities.

Thanks so much for your feedback!

You may have been looking at an earlier iteration. I've split the Eclipse Spawn trait into two so I think it reads a little more clearly.

Yes, using the blood points means you don't have to reduce your own max health. There's a side bar concerning bags of rats which is basically, in a life or death situation it will eat anything, but otherwise turns its nose up at anything that isn't murder.

I leave it up to the DM to decide if the stored blood is all or nothing. If they're uncomfortable with the relative power of a "free" simulacrum, making it snap off 20 max hp every time until 20th level is fine. As intended the stored blood is supposed to mitigate the loss of max hp to use features, but that's the only one where you can't store enough to entirely offset cost when you get it.

The Doom Bud is supposed to be something you can litter the field with at high level since it's immobile, indiscriminate, has a relatively low attack bonus, and is vulnerable to two of the most common damage types but in a confined space it's death. And don't forget, you can make it grow like Rita Repulsa.

[sengmeng]

Oddly enough, another fighter subclass has entered the contest. The Dungeoncrasher has a very tenuous connection to the theme (HE COMES FROM BEYOND... THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL AND SMASHES THROUGH IT AND INTO YOU), but it was really fun to make. I'd love conventional feedback, but also wonder if I should withdraw it as an entry because the fit is so far off. Fear not, fans, the Dungeoncrasher will find a home even if withdrawn!

[nickl_2000]

Distracting Whispers: Bane as a reaction, interesting. Especially considering it stacks.

Thanks, I wanted to do something a little bit different than disadvantage and make it more swingy on purpose. This seemed like the way to do it. However, I limited it's power by making it melee attacks only verses bane which is all of them.

Maddening Thoughts: Oof, maximizing damage is pretty strong. Especially if you pair it with something that makes the enemy vulnerable, like an allied Grave Cleric.

It could be done right, I totally agree with you there. However, I'm not really worried about the overall power and balance of this considering that Tempest Clerics get the exact same thing with both Thunder and Lightning

Damaging Distraction: Hmmm. While I like this mechanically, the damage scaling, and the (seemingly unlikely) chances of it actually happening enough make me second guess. What about inflicting something like Frightened instead?

Yup, there have been a couple of comments on this one that make me think that is just doesn't work. I think I will do something different completely.

Inflict Madness: Looks good. Just needs some formatting. Question though, can you just keep doing this, or are there any limits? If you can just use it over and over, that might be a bit too good.

It's on a good path! Just needs a little fleshing out. That last ability could be really tasty done right.

Agreed completely on inflict madness. There needs to be a limiter on the amount of times you can use this. I can't decide whether it should be 1/short rest, wisdom mod times/long rest, on 1/long rest. It could potentially be pretty powerful when used at the right time, but it's best against groups and you have to be in the middle of them for it to be the most effective.

[nickl_2000]

Okay, overhauled some things on Madness Domain Cleric.

1. Replace level 1 sacred flame as psychic with a melee weapon attack that does psychic damage to make the cleric domain more melee focused since the other abilities are leaning this way. However, still left with regular cleric weapons and armor to limit power some
2. Replaced level 6 ability with an ability where if the enemy misses when affected by distracting whispers they fall prone and end their turn.
3. Replaced potent spell casting with melee damage.
4. Added in limiter for level 17 ability to be once per short rest since this could potentially be very powerful in the right situation
5. Added in a small extra in level 17 ability so that the cleric can recognize what the enemy gets when they fail the level 17 save.

New review times

Spoiler: The Kool-Aid man (I mean Fighter Archetype: Dungeoncrasher)

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Ohhh YAAA!!!


Jokes aside :)

Brute Force - Generally people say "You gain proficiency in athletics, if you didn't already have it, and expertise." Or something to the like, but you went a lot further in giving other options, so maybe that is not worth the change.

Worldbreaker This is an interesting ability, but seems a little weak to me. I don't know about you, but I rarely am doing damage to objects where 2xs the damage is worth an entire level. Even with the rider of making difficult terrain I feel like it could still use some more to it.

Dungeoncrash - This feels fitting to me. You may need something in here that says you can't deal this damage to someone more than 1 time per turn. As written, at level 11 I could shove a wizard 3 into a wall three times and do 12d6 + 3 + (3 x str mod) damage. Basically do the 4d6 damage three times with the bonus of the unarmed strike for 1+ str mod three times.

Juggernaut Charge - This compounds the issue of Dungeoncrash. So now you are doing 18d6 + 3 + (6 x str mod) damage to that poor wizard per round. Additionally, shoving someone back without it being part of an attack is an issue as well since you could do it over and over again.

Although now I'm picturing this

Planebreaker - How does this interact with Juggernaut charge when you phase through a creatures space.


You have a solid base on this subclass and a good idea, but there are some execution issues that need to be examined. One of the things that I expected to see here and didn't was the ability to grapple creatures that are bigger than large. You go up against a giant sized creature and you literally lose every single one of your subclass abilities.

[Phhase]

Has anyone gotten through Dreamhacker yet? If not, it's fine, I fully appreciate that my stuff is usually...dense . Meta-feedback like that is also valuable to me, don't hold back!

Round two!

Spoiler: Undertaker Fighter

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...don't let this subclass distract you from the fact that in 1998, The Dungeoncrasher threw Asmodeus off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through all 9 layers of Baator!

Brute Force: Would this stack with the Unarmed Fighting Style feature?

Worldbreaker: I'm not sure if hardness is a thing in 5e? Should be though, so that doesn't really matter. More importantly, does this stack with the bonus granted by an adamant weapon? And what does critically striking a surface for 4d6+5 x 10 damage (up to 290 damage!) mean? If I have multiple attacks, do I basically have a burrow speed? Do my mighty swings open fissures in the earth, or blast open craters? Is a stone tower no better than a tree for all the ease I can fell it? I love where this is going, but I need to know how to use it. Depending on the answer, you may want to promote it to a higher-tier feature as well.

Dungeoncrash: I like this. I've always wanted a pancake charge feature.

Juggernaut Charge: So just to get this straight: You can effectively Reinhardt charge someone as far as you can move (As long as you keep succeeding at strength checks), and they take unarmed strike damage every time (Note: Having Monk levels makes this even more deadly!), and are dragged along. And are pancaked. How does this combine with the previous feature? If you shove them into another creature, are you now shoving two creatures along? Or is the other knocked aside after taking damage? Also, echoing previous statements, If you have someone against a wall, this means that you deal 6d6+double str mod for every 5ft of movement you spend and also succeed on a strength check. Combine that with Haste, debuff the target with Hex, and hell, throw in the Tabaxi double-move, and you've got less of an enemy and more of a red paintbrush. I like the idea, needs a few more boundaries.

Planebreaker: So, to be clear, does this mean you can grab somebody, phase into a wall, then phase out, leaving them inside the wall? Note that there are things that allow you to ignore difficult terrain, so you're effectively giving the player infinite incorporeality with no downsides here. Again, great idea, a little OP tho.

I very much like the direction, but needs a little tooling. This is a magic item I made that may or may not have captured a little of what you're trying to do here, take it for what you will, I was just reminded of it.

Thanks so much for your feedback!

You may have been looking at an earlier iteration. I've split the Eclipse Spawn trait into two so I think it reads a little more clearly.

Yes, using the blood points means you don't have to reduce your own max health. There's a side bar concerning bags of rats which is basically, in a life or death situation it will eat anything, but otherwise turns its nose up at anything that isn't murder.

I leave it up to the DM to decide if the stored blood is all or nothing. If they're uncomfortable with the relative power of a "free" simulacrum, making it snap off 20 max hp every time until 20th level is fine. As intended the stored blood is supposed to mitigate the loss of max hp to use features, but that's the only one where you can't store enough to entirely offset cost when you get it.

The Doom Bud is supposed to be something you can litter the field with at high level since it's immobile, indiscriminate, has a relatively low attack bonus, and is vulnerable to two of the most common damage types but in a confined space it's death. And don't forget, you can make it grow like Rita Repulsa.

Ah, I missed the bit where it had a speed of zero. This makes more sense, but also begs the question: Could this be circumvented by simply buffing the plant with something like Longstrider? Also, the reactive attack: does it work only if the enemy moves into range from out of range, or does it work if they move from one point in range to another? And does the plant make attacks of opportunity against enemies that flee? The changes look good. I like the bag-of-rats workaround. What is that about making it grow? I didn't see anything about further enhancing it, did I miss something?

They don't currently require an action, although it would be reasonable to make them require a reaction, particularly Surge of Strength. Surge of Strength is supposed to last for the duration of you being at 0 hp - I'll edit to make that clear. And yeah, it can't count off of Hero Point damage. Hero Point damage should ignore Temp HP, as it specifies losing health, not temporary health.

Alright, that makes sense. I like Surge as a reaction, but I think the other two are fine.

As worded, I believe it only increases your Dex Cap if you were already at 20 Dex. That's the intention, anyway - it's a nice bonus regardless, but it does more if you're focusing on Dex.
I'm not sure how to write the teleport feature in a way that's simple and makes sense. The idea is that you're physically moving, so you logically shouldn't be able to teleport through a wall or a window. But it's hard to phrase the idea that you need to be able to physically reach a place to teleport there. If you have any suggestions about how to phrase it better, I'll happily take them.

Gotcha. There's actually two options, come to think of it. The first that comes to mind for me: "Flash Step - As a bonus action, run up to 100 feet in a fraction of a second, appearing to teleport more than move. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity." Optional: instead of walk, stipulate that you can use any method of movement that you have a speed for, potentially including swimming or burrowing. Of course, any and all clever phrasing goes out the window if you have a class feature or spell that allows you to phase though solid objects while moving. Could be cool, though.

Option two refers to a similar effect that exists in the Mystic Psionic Discipline Celerity: Blur of Speed. Using that metric, it instead becomes: "Flash Step - As a bonus action, you run up to 100 feet. You are invisible during this move."

I figured giving a free Jump effect was the simplest way of handling it precisely because it already existed, and things like the boots mean that having it freely isn't considered a huge problem. On the other hand, writing out the effect would mean it was no longer magical, while free Jump is, and most of this class is non-magical (just anime as hell). I might switch that.
Similar to No Speed Limits, I want it to be a scaling effect rather than a flat 'set your X to Y' so that it rewards people who're invested into strength more.

Hmm, only requires a slight tweak then. Jumping only travels its max distance if you have a running start, so what if you nixed the running start requirement, and just made the long and high jump the same? That rewards Strength investment with an up to 22 foot jump upward or forward with no limiters. And it stacks with jump-increasing efects from other sources! There's also a thing where you have to make a Dex check to not fall on your face if you're landing of difficult terrain, you could remove that too.

It sounds nice, but at level 15 you'll be fighting monsters who throw out 90-something damage around, according to the DMG. Dropping the damage by a bit is nice but it's nothing the barbarian hasn't been doing since level 1. And sure, that damage tends to get split up, but still - an adult green dragon would hit a barbarian for a bite + a claw + a claw, 17+7+13+13 damage for a total of 50, halved to 25. The hero would take 11+1+7+7 from that, a total of 26. It comes out to about the same. Unless you're using Heavy Armor Master which saves you another 9 points, but that's investing a feat into it, so it's probably fine.
Similar to Surge of Strength, Break it on my Back won't work against Hero Point damage.

Fair enough, fair enough. Would it apply before or after resistances? If it's after, then that's even spicier.

I'm not sure if it would be OP, to be honest - I think the most powerful thing here is extra action surges, because of how relatively early you can get them. On the other hand, Action Surge is best for spellcasters who get to cast extra spells (meaning multiclassing issues - along with having to be MAD across 3 stats, you'd be delaying your spellcasting progression by 3 levels) and fighters who get to attack tons of times (meaning that you're doing what the class is meant to do), so... even that's probably okay.
But yes, it's definitely meant to feel like a OP power fantasy that will let your physical fighter feel on the same tier as a high-level wizard. I just hope it lives up to that!

I'm running a campaign soon, I'll put this out there and if anyone's interested, see how it works!

Okay, overhauled some things on Madness Domain Cleric.

1. Replace level 1 sacred flame as psychic with a melee weapon attack that does psychic damage to make the cleric domain more melee focused since the other abilities are leaning this way. However, still left with regular cleric weapons and armor to limit power some
2. Replaced level 6 ability with an ability where if the enemy misses when affected by distracting whispers they fall prone and end their turn.
3. Replaced potent spell casting with melee damage.
4. Added in limiter for level 17 ability to be once per short rest since this could potentially be very powerful in the right situation
5. Added in a small extra in level 17 ability so that the cleric can recognize what the enemy gets when they fail the level 17 save.

I like the changes you've make here! Is there a reason the psychic melee attack doesn't just read as "When you hit with a melee attack, you can choose to deal psychic damage instead of the weapon's normal damage type?" The changes to Mental Stupor are great, really seems like a threat now. I think the swap from potent casting makes sense, and the 17th level ability nerf is perfectly reasonable. Looking good!

[BerzerkerUnit]

Has anyone gotten through Dreamhacker yet? If not, it's fine, I fully appreciate that my stuff is usually...dense . Meta-feedback like that is also valuable to me, don't hold back!

Ah, I missed the bit where it had a speed of zero. This makes more sense, but also begs the question: Could this be circumvented by simply buffing the plant with something like Longstrider? Also, the reactive attack: does it work only if the enemy moves into range from out of range, or does it work if they move from one point in range to another? And does the plant make attacks of opportunity against enemies that flee? The changes look good. I like the bag-of-rats workaround. What is that about making it grow? I didn't see anything about further enhancing it, did I miss something?

Given that the Doom Bud is an indiscriminate eater I guess you could Longstrider it and let it wander around, but it's not an ally or charmed by default. I guess I should clarify that.

The extra spell list includes Enlarge/Reduce. It's a creature, it has a reaction, the basic rules should be enough to infer it can make normal attacks of opportunity. My intent with the Reactive trait was to make it automatically attack the first creature that moves next to it, whether they're getting closer, farther, or circling around. The only way to avoid the reaction attack was to stay in place. I prefer the less precise wording so DMs can decide if they want it like I intended or more like polearm master.

[sengmeng]

Has anyone gotten through Dreamhacker yet? If not, it's fine, I fully appreciate that my stuff is usually...dense . Meta-feedback like that is also valuable to me, don't hold back!

Round two!

Spoiler: Undertaker Fighter

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...don't let this subclass distract you from the fact that in 1998, The Dungeoncrasher threw Asmodeus off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through all 9 layers of Baator!

Brute Force: Would this stack with the Unarmed Fighting Style feature?

Worldbreaker: I'm not sure if hardness is a thing in 5e? Should be though, so that doesn't really matter. More importantly, does this stack with the bonus granted by an adamant weapon? And what does critically striking a surface for 4d6+5 x 10 damage (up to 290 damage!) mean? If I have multiple attacks, do I basically have a burrow speed? Do my mighty swings open fissures in the earth, or blast open craters? Is a stone tower no better than a tree for all the ease I can fell it? I love where this is going, but I need to know how to use it. Depending on the answer, you may want to promote it to a higher-tier feature as well.

Dungeoncrash: I like this. I've always wanted a pancake charge feature.

Juggernaut Charge: So just to get this straight: You can effectively Reinhardt charge someone as far as you can move (As long as you keep succeeding at strength checks), and they take unarmed strike damage every time (Note: Having Monk levels makes this even more deadly!), and are dragged along. And are pancaked. How does this combine with the previous feature? If you shove them into another creature, are you now shoving two creatures along? Or is the other knocked aside after taking damage? Also, echoing previous statements, If you have someone against a wall, this means that you deal 6d6+double str mod for every 5ft of movement you spend and also succeed on a strength check. Combine that with Haste, debuff the target with Hex, and hell, throw in the Tabaxi double-move, and you've got less of an enemy and more of a red paintbrush. I like the idea, needs a few more boundaries.

Planebreaker: So, to be clear, does this mean you can grab somebody, phase into a wall, then phase out, leaving them inside the wall? Note that there are things that allow you to ignore difficult terrain, so you're effectively giving the player infinite incorporeality with no downsides here. Again, great idea, a little OP tho.

I very much like the direction, but needs a little tooling. This is a magic item I made that may or may not have captured a little of what you're trying to do here, take it for what you will, I was just reminded of it.

Thanks for feedback! The 10x damage multiplier was made after Molemage said 2x didn't seem all that enticing... maybe 5x is a good compromise. He should be able to burst right through walls like the Koolaid man though. I will have to do a lot of clarifying otherwise it sounds like, and I'm not sure what I want from planebreaker at all. And yes, I just looked it up and hardness is gone, or at least it's been renamed "damage threshold," so I'll have to adjust that too.

I'll try to do feedback on the weekend.

[nickl_2000]

Has anyone gotten through Dreamhacker yet? If not, it's fine, I fully appreciate that my stuff is usually...dense . Meta-feedback like that is also valuable to me, don't hold back!



I like the changes you've make here! Is there a reason the psychic melee attack doesn't just read as "When you hit with a melee attack, you can choose to deal psychic damage instead of the weapon's normal damage type?" The changes to Mental Stupor are great, really seems like a threat now. I think the swap from potent casting makes sense, and the 17th level ability nerf is perfectly reasonable. Looking good!

I didn't like the flavor of doing psychic damage with a melee attack. Converting a physical attack from slashing to fire makes sense in my mind cannon, but how does one convert a physical attack to do mental damage? So, thus I made it an illusionary attack that does mental damage, although it did complicate the ability some. In effect, you are just doing as you said.

As for the level 6 ability, it is so much simpler right now and still has a good flavor to it. So, overall I'm pretty satisfied with it.

Spoiler: Rogue Dreamhacker

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Can you move through solid object in the dream world? Given that you will get a Maximum of 20 turns in the dream world it doesn't really allow you much freedom in interacting with someone else.

You give a lot of abilities that can be used in scout, exploration, and social. However, I don't see a single combat ability here. I would like to see something that could be used in combat as well, it doesn't have to be a huge ability but something would be nice (at least in my mind).

I've noticed that absolutely every ability is building on something you can do a maximum of 5 times in an adventuring day (and likely less since you need Dex as the main stat as a rogue to survive combat). I would be nice to see something else that is either passive and fitting to the ability or an active ability that doesn't involve the dreamwalking.



This is an interesting subclass, that really focuses on doing bad things to someone you are up against before combat starts. It doesn't offer much in the way of in combat abilities, and the fact that you only get a maximum of 20 turns (on amazing rolls) really limits your ability to travel to someone and do things to them. Personally, I would prefer to see some in combat abilities instead of all of them being pre-combat abilities. As an honest assessment, this isn't the kind of subclass I would ever play (spending so much time pre-planing isn't my style), so for someone who enjoys this kind of character it might be perfect the way it is. None of the abilities seem broken to me though.

[Phhase]

I didn't like the flavor of doing psychic damage with a melee attack. Converting a physical attack from slashing to fire makes sense in my mind cannon, but how does one convert a physical attack to do mental damage? So, thus I made it an illusionary attack that does mental damage, although it did complicate the ability some. In effect, you are just doing as you said.

As for the level 6 ability, it is so much simpler right now and still has a good flavor to it. So, overall I'm pretty satisfied with it.

Spoiler: Rogue Dreamhacker

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Can you move through solid object in the dream world? Given that you will get a Maximum of 20 turns in the dream world it doesn't really allow you much freedom in interacting with someone else.

You give a lot of abilities that can be used in scout, exploration, and social. However, I don't see a single combat ability here. I would like to see something that could be used in combat as well, it doesn't have to be a huge ability but something would be nice (at least in my mind).

I've noticed that absolutely every ability is building on something you can do a maximum of 5 times in an adventuring day (and likely less since you need Dex as the main stat as a rogue to survive combat). I would be nice to see something else that is either passive and fitting to the ability or an active ability that doesn't involve the dreamwalking.



This is an interesting subclass, that really focuses on doing bad things to someone you are up against before combat starts. It doesn't offer much in the way of in combat abilities, and the fact that you only get a maximum of 20 turns (on amazing rolls) really limits your ability to travel to someone and do things to them. Personally, I would prefer to see some in combat abilities instead of all of them being pre-combat abilities. As an honest assessment, this isn't the kind of subclass I would ever play (spending so much time pre-planing isn't my style), so for someone who enjoys this kind of character it might be perfect the way it is. None of the abilities seem broken to me though.

Yeah I getcha, I was just thinking that because Mystic already does the physical weapon -> psychic thing the way I described. Totally understand if it feels hard to imagine, though. That same reason is why I stipulated my Soulweaver Wizard class dealing force/psychic, since psychic by itself doesn't really conjure images of a weapon that can deal bodily harm.

Thanks, I very much appreciate your feedback ! (brace for wall of meandering design notes)

Spoiler: Meandering Wall in Question

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In the dreamscape, the only things that exist are yourself, and the minds of others. There are no walls, floors, or environment, you have to use Eyejack or Datamine if you want to be able to build your knowledge on those things. Keep in mind, though, you could have your wizard's imp go invisible and deliberately accept the Eyejack, to act as a scouting UAV, or some other combo.

Yeah, you're right, this Archetype does kinda lean more on the pre-combat sort of Sun Tzu "Victory Before Battle" type of gameplay. And, I'll be honest, planning the heist is half of the fun for me and my playstyle. Drawing all the information, all the elements and players on the chessboard into my mind, and shaping reality to my will, whoof, feels godlike. However, I did try to give the class some in-combat utility, although I concede fully that it is not automatically intuitive.

In addition to the whole "Gather information and setup the field" aspect, as long as the Dreamhacker can remain hidden, I contest that they have a potentially significant role to play in combat as well, albeit not one that involves actually being there in body, stabbing things. You can not only be Mission Control and notify allies of things they might not yet be aware of (Such as the fact of, exact position, and intention of incoming reinforcements), but you can act as a combo enabler. Lemme give you a few examples.

Example 1: Your party is fighting the guard captain on the third floor of a castle. The captain is very resilient to the damage the players are dishing out. However, there is an open window nearby, and a moat below. The Dreamhacker uses Method: Setup (Which does work in combat, as long as it's not something obviously wrong like "put down your sword" or "Pick up that can"), to have the captain circle around the players, placing him directly in line with the window. This enables the fighter or the wizard to immediately (perhaps with a readied action) shove or blast the captain out of the window, falling into the moat, sinking, and drowning. Without the Dreamhacker, the party may have had to spend resources and action economy getting the captain into position in the first place, which has the added problem of potentially giving the plan away to him, but having your own friendly puppetmaster makes this process much easier and more efficient. Other versions of this scenario could include grouping enemies up for a fireball, making an enemy walk through a door so it can be locked or barred behind them, or having an enemy stand beneath a stalactite the team wants to drop on them.

Example 2: Unlike Setup, Directive can be used to force an enemy to do something somewhat illogical (as long as it does not involve them directly hurting themself), such as throwing aside their weapon. Memory Leak is also good if you want to take someone alive (Also note that Memory Leak can put to sleep creatures that are normally immune to sleep effects, such as elves, it only requires the target to be able to sleep in a physiological sense. It would not work on most constructs.).

It requires using the surroundings and coordinating with allies, but that sort of "Soft Broken-ness" (I forget who it was that coined that term, I think it was a lass in the 5e thread?) or high-flexibility puppetmaster style of undoing the enemy is what I was going for here. It's less about kicking in the door, more about optimizing party members that are door-kickers. That said, you're absolutely right about it being a bit lacking in stamina and QoL for the style they're meant to invoke, so I'm gonna make some changes accordingly.

Apropos of doing things on the outside of the dreamscape, the Mindsplinter branch of the class was my attempt at giving the class a way to set some things up for them to trigger in person, which is why the Psimine triggers only when you hit a sneak attack (Which I now realize, given the high ally coordination flavor of the rest of the class, is a but artificial). I did want to enable some Solid-Snake sort of stealth and assassination capabilities, but I seem to have missed the mark a bit. Perhaps I should add a mechanic for restoring THP or uses of Get to the JIP?

Also, note that (and I am just now realizing this) since Directive is basically bound by a Contingency trigger, you can stack multiple Directives onto one creature, potentially disabling or disrupting them for a significant period. Do you think that ought to be kosher?

Also, a sidenote, Format, the 17th level method, is not just Greater Invisibility, it's more like Phantasmal Force, in a way. None of the stimulus you create reach the target, including sound, smell, and touch. If you bump into them, for example, they'll not feel a person, and will likely rationalize it as them tripping or somesuch.

[nickl_2000]

Yeah I getcha, I was just thinking that because Mystic already does the physical weapon -> psychic thing the way I described. Totally understand if it feels hard to imagine, though. That same reason is why I stipulated my Soulweaver Wizard class dealing force/psychic, since psychic by itself doesn't really conjure images of a weapon that can deal bodily harm.

Thanks, I very much appreciate your feedback ! (brace for wall of meandering design notes)

Spoiler: Meandering Wall in Question

Show

In the dreamscape, the only things that exist are yourself, and the minds of others. There are no walls, floors, or environment, you have to use Eyejack or Datamine if you want to be able to build your knowledge on those things. Keep in mind, though, you could have your wizard's imp go invisible and deliberately accept the Eyejack, to act as a scouting UAV, or some other combo.

Yeah, you're right, this Archetype does kinda lean more on the pre-combat sort of Sun Tzu "Victory Before Battle" type of gameplay. And, I'll be honest, planning the heist is half of the fun for me and my playstyle. Drawing all the information, all the elements and players on the chessboard into my mind, and shaping reality to my will, whoof, feels godlike. However, I did try to give the class some in-combat utility, although I concede fully that it is not automatically intuitive.

In addition to the whole "Gather information and setup the field" aspect, as long as the Dreamhacker can remain hidden, I contest that they have a potentially significant role to play in combat as well, albeit not one that involves actually being there in body, stabbing things. You can not only be Mission Control and notify allies of things they might not yet be aware of (Such as the fact of, exact position, and intention of incoming reinforcements), but you can act as a combo enabler. Lemme give you a few examples.

Example 1: Your party is fighting the guard captain on the third floor of a castle. The captain is very resilient to the damage the players are dishing out. However, there is an open window nearby, and a moat below. The Dreamhacker uses Method: Setup (Which does work in combat, as long as it's not something obviously wrong like "put down your sword" or "Pick up that can"), to have the captain circle around the players, placing him directly in line with the window. This enables the fighter or the wizard to immediately (perhaps with a readied action) shove or blast the captain out of the window, falling into the moat, sinking, and drowning. Without the Dreamhacker, the party may have had to spend resources and action economy getting the captain into position in the first place, which has the added problem of potentially giving the plan away to him, but having your own friendly puppetmaster makes this process much easier and more efficient. Other versions of this scenario could include grouping enemies up for a fireball, making an enemy walk through a door so it can be locked or barred behind them, or having an enemy stand beneath a stalactite the team wants to drop on them.

Example 2: Unlike Setup, Directive can be used to force an enemy to do something somewhat illogical (as long as it does not involve them directly hurting themself), such as throwing aside their weapon. Memory Leak is also good if you want to take someone alive (Also note that Memory Leak can put to sleep creatures that are normally immune to sleep effects, such as elves, it only requires the target to be able to sleep in a physiological sense. It would not work on most constructs.).

It requires using the surroundings and coordinating with allies, but that sort of "Soft Broken-ness" (I forget who it was that coined that term, I think it was a lass in the 5e thread?) or high-flexibility puppetmaster style of undoing the enemy is what I was going for here. It's less about kicking in the door, more about optimizing party members that are door-kickers. That said, you're absolutely right about it being a bit lacking in stamina and QoL for the style they're meant to invoke, so I'm gonna make some changes accordingly.

Apropos of doing things on the outside of the dreamscape, the Mindsplinter branch of the class was my attempt at giving the class a way to set some things up for them to trigger in person, which is why the Psimine triggers only when you hit a sneak attack (Which I now realize, given the high ally coordination flavor of the rest of the class, is a but artificial). I did want to enable some Solid-Snake sort of stealth and assassination capabilities, but I seem to have missed the mark a bit. Perhaps I should add a mechanic for restoring THP or uses of Get to the JIP?

Also, note that (and I am just now realizing this) since Directive is basically bound by a Contingency trigger, you can stack multiple Directives onto one creature, potentially disabling or disrupting them for a significant period. Do you think that ought to be kosher?

Also, a sidenote, Format, the 17th level method, is not just Greater Invisibility, it's more like Phantasmal Force, in a way. None of the stimulus you create reach the target, including sound, smell, and touch. If you bump into them, for example, they'll not feel a person, and will likely rationalize it as them tripping or somesuch.

So continue to take my thoughts with a grain of salt since this isn't my style of character, but I will throw some more ideas out there for thoughts on simplifications.

What if you tossed out the entire idea of THP and rolling damage each round and made it based on the amount of methods you attempted. While you are dreamhacking you can attempt to use proficiency mod methods per dreamhack. This makes it a little simpler for planning purposes and prevents some of the stacking problems you mentioned above. With doing this, you could also ditch the entire travel idea and let the rogue thought travel instantly to find and affect another consciousnesses. I've been reading the Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series and equate your Dream realm to their Tel'aran'rhiod, which allows instant travel through the power of mind.

Also given a team that plans well enough, a bard/paladin could cast Heroism (caster mod in THP per round) on you while you are dreamhacking and keep you going pretty much indefinitely (especially at higher levels when you have plenty of spell slots to cast this repeatedly). This could allow you to drop some serious methods on every single person in a dungeon given enough time (which is likely possible when you get to a certain level).

[Phhase]

So continue to take my thoughts with a grain of salt since this isn't my style of character, but I will throw some more ideas out there for thoughts on simplifications.

What if you tossed out the entire idea of THP and rolling damage each round and made it based on the amount of methods you attempted. While you are dreamhacking you can attempt to use proficiency mod methods per dreamhack. This makes it a little simpler for planning purposes and prevents some of the stacking problems you mentioned above. With doing this, you could also ditch the entire travel idea and let the rogue thought travel instantly to find and affect another consciousnesses. I've been reading the Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series and equate your Dream realm to their Tel'aran'rhiod, which allows instant travel through the power of mind.

Also given a team that plans well enough, a bard/paladin could cast Heroism (caster mod in THP per round) on you while you are dreamhacking and keep you going pretty much indefinitely (especially at higher levels when you have plenty of spell slots to cast this repeatedly). This could allow you to drop some serious methods on every single person in a dungeon given enough time (which is likely possible when you get to a certain level).

You've touched on exactly a few of the things I was thinking of tweaking to make things sleeker, love it. I was thinking about speeding up the travel speed for convenience, although I do think that I want to keep the feeling of movement and space as a thing in and of itself, instead of only the mindscapes existing. Part of the idea is that you can see the physical locations of brains in the Material Plane as represented by the mindscape, and thus their position relative to your party and each other. That way, you can intuit things about timing and terrain even before using Eyejack, although actually building the visual representation does require Eyejack. Think something similar to the elctroreception sharks use.

You're also right on track with the thought about X methods per Hack, although my initial instinct was slightly different. Since I want to preserve the passive spatial information gathering detailed above, I thusly also want to keep time as one of the limiting factors that staying jacked in is beholden to. Otherwise, you could just remain in Dreamform indefinitely, acting as an undetectable scout. My thought was instead to streamline the action economy of Methods somewhat, although in what way I'm not sure yet. These are my current ideas:

• Make some of the Methods instead require a bonus action/reaction/no action but once per round
• Use a Minor/Major categorization listing to determine how many of what you can use per round
• Use a point cost system to determine either the total number of methods per hack, or per round, possibly based on proficiency as you said

Right now, I'm leaning toward the first option, as it's simplest.

My use of THP as the foundation was actually very deliberate, although I fully concede it's not made clear why (I should add language making it explicit). See, what it SHOULD (and will) say is that if you begin your turn with none of THESE THP left, you are ejected from the dreamscape. This automatically prevents your teammates adding time to your hack, since a new source of THP will replace rather than add to any previous THP. However, I still appreciate it being brought to my attention since further evaluation has helped me spot a few other unintentional methods of extending your stay.

Those being resistance to psychic damage, and Abjuration Wizard's Arcane Ward. While I don't think that both should be a thing, I do think that I should leave one in, since they both are uncommon and require some tradeoffs/preplanning. I like the idea of using Warding Bond to "share the processor burden" so I'll make the damage explicitly direct rather than typeless.

[Phhase]

Dreamhacker Patch Notes:

You now move at double base speed in the dream realm (So unaffected by Haste).

There is now a max range of 1 mile from your body's position.

Updated the action costs of various methods.

Method: Disrupt can now act as a pseudo-Counterspell if you have eyes on them casting.

Psimine planted on a sleeping target now deals 4d6 damage instead.

Buffed the duration of sleeping Memory Leak.

Added Method: Metaprison.

Added telepathic syncing.

End of turn damage now bypasses HP buffers like Arcane Ward.

Clarified the language surrounding the THP mechanic.

[theVoidWatches]

Last minute changes to the Hero, because a friend of mine suggested that it was too weak (particularly with the health backlash).

• Instead of a health backlash, you can now grant yourself extra hero points by taking levels of exhaustion.
• Hero points now return on a short rest instead of a long rest.
• The three ability-boosting features are now rolled into one feature which you gain 3 times, allowing you to pick which order you boost your scores in.
• Added a new feature at level 15, because people will now be able to shove the boost to their least-liked ability to 15, and would might be disappointing to get a bonus to a score you rarely use - it lets your ASIs take you to 24 instead of 20, allowing you to use your last ASIs (fighters have 2 remaining in their last few levels) to continue boosting even abilities that are already maxed out (or beyond maxed thanks to Impossible Physique).
• Endless Heroism now also makes you function at one level of exhaustion fewer, adding more leeway for that part of the hero points feature.

The core concept and the major mechanics are still exactly the same, but you should now be able to do it more often, and without feeling back because of an unavoidable backlash (while still having a backlash to let you go beyond what's healthy for you, if you want).

[Phhase]

Last minute changes to the Hero, because a friend of mine suggested that it was too weak (particularly with the health backlash).

• Instead of a health backlash, you can now grant yourself extra hero points by taking levels of exhaustion.
• Hero points now return on a short rest instead of a long rest.
• The three ability-boosting features are now rolled into one feature which you gain 3 times, allowing you to pick which order you boost your scores in.
• Added a new feature at level 15, because people will now be able to shove the boost to their least-liked ability to 15, and would might be disappointing to get a bonus to a score you rarely use - it lets your ASIs take you to 24 instead of 20, allowing you to use your last ASIs (fighters have 2 remaining in their last few levels) to continue boosting even abilities that are already maxed out (or beyond maxed thanks to Impossible Physique).
• Endless Heroism now also makes you function at one level of exhaustion fewer, adding more leeway for that part of the hero points feature.

The core concept and the major mechanics are still exactly the same, but you should now be able to do it more often, and without feeling back because of an unavoidable backlash (while still having a backlash to let you go beyond what's healthy for you, if you want).

I kinda liked the backlash mechanic, but this works too. Also, got DAYUM does this sound powerful. I guess I really need to play it to see, but it feels quite stronk. Nice.

[theVoidWatches]

I kinda liked the backlash mechanic, but this works too. Also, got DAYUM does this sound powerful. I guess I really need to play it to see, but it feels quite stronk. Nice.

If my IRL friend and I are any judge, it's not overly strong, but will feel strong, which is the point.