D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[Phhase]

Allright boysenberries, the results and next contest are up! Get to makin'.
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...1#post24702091

[nickl_2000]

DM me the new contest post template, I can take care of it! All the best. Also, you'll have to be the one to update the Chat Thread, since it belongs to you.

Also, I forget, are there like 1/2/3 placings or just 1 winner?

Allright boysenberries, the results and next contest are up! Get to makin'.
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...1#post24702091

You got it perfectly fine, thanks for helping out :)

[Edea]

Hmm, the new subclass contest theme's got me slightly befuddled.

I'm just a bit concerned for how 'excellence' might be construed. Are we supposed to make OP features or something? Should entries start off with 'this is the one particular facet of gameplay I want the subclass to excel at,' and then put down the actual mechanics?

[BerzerkerUnit]

Hmm, the new subclass contest theme's got me slightly befuddled.

I'm just a bit concerned for how 'excellence' might be construed. Are we supposed to make OP features or something? Should entries start off with 'this is the one particular facet of gameplay I want the subclass to excel at,' and then put down the actual mechanics?

IME we’ve always been pretty loose on the theme. If you want to make The Z Warrior Monk who takes off their weighted clothes for Haste and Kai-O-Kens x 20 to skip rolling and auto crit for a level of exhaustion and oh crap that’s a 3rd idea...

Right now I’ve got the Calculator Artificer with an enchanted Intelligent Game set that calculates probabilities and this is almost certainly what I’m writing up because I want an AI buddy named Dice to tell me metagame stats in game.

[nickl_2000]

Hmm, the new subclass contest theme's got me slightly befuddled.

I'm just a bit concerned for how 'excellence' might be construed. Are we supposed to make OP features or something? Should entries start off with 'this is the one particular facet of gameplay I want the subclass to excel at,' and then put down the actual mechanics?

In general we play pretty fast and loose with the themes. If you can get close everyone will be good with it. My first thought that I'm looking at doing is an Iron Chef Fighter who excels with cooking utensils (fighter also has 5 different ability, which each one let's the PCs restaurant be a one higher star).

I just need to figure out how what a fighter can do that will be cool with cooking.

[Edea]

Ahh, I gotcha.

Hehe, maybe an Oath of Excellence Paladin (not saying that's what I'm going with, necessarily, just sounded nice)

[nickl_2000]

Ahh, I gotcha.

Hehe, maybe an Oath of Excellence Paladin (not saying that's what I'm going with, necessarily, just sounded nice)

That certainly fits the theming in my mind.

[RickAsWritten]

My entry is up. Druid: Circle of the Crystalline

It draws inspiration from Will Wight's Traveler's Gate series, all those kooky crystal-loving pseudo-Wiccans, and a character from Star vs. the Forces of Evil.

[nickl_2000]

Alright, I could use some help with an odd request for this contest.

Do you have any foods you can think of that have a strong association or phrase associated with them?

For example:
-An apple a day keeps the doctor away
-Chicken soup heals you.

[RickAsWritten]

Alright, I could use some help with an odd request for this contest.

Do you have any foods you can think of that have a strong association or phrase associated with them?

For example:
-An apple a day keeps the doctor away
-Chicken soup heals you.

I'm all about maximum efficiency (ie., lazy).

Food Idioms

There is some golden ones on that list. I'm looking forward to your subclass. It sounds like fun already.

[nickl_2000]

I'm all about maximum efficiency (ie., lazy).

Food Idioms

There is some golden ones on that list. I'm looking forward to your subclass. It sounds like fun already.

THANK YOU! Idioms is the word I was looking for. I've been googling food tropes and it just wasn't right.

[Damon_Tor]

My submission, The Savant Sorcerer, is up and ready for commentary. It's intentionally very simple, so it should be a short read. I believe I had posted a similar subclass here a long time ago, but if so it would have been a very rough draft, I didn't reference it when I made this one, and the implementation would have been different enough that I consider it a new creation. If anyone feels like this is pushing the "original content" rule too far let me know.

Also, I just wanted to mention how interesting I think the results of the last vote were. Our grand winner received not a single first-place vote. Oddly fitting for a concept that would chafe at becoming too popular.

[nickl_2000]

My Fighter subclass, Chef is posted in the contest.

I still need to clean up some of the language, but I have to admit I really had fun with a few of the meals you could make as part of this subclass.

I try and put out first reviews on other posted ones on Monday.

[Edea]

I'm still not 100% sure if I like what I put up, but I wanted to at least have something there in case I couldn't get back to it.

[Damon_Tor]

I'm still not 100% sure if I like what I put up, but I wanted to at least have something there in case I couldn't get back to it.

If it makes you feel better, it's one of my favorites so far.

[Edea]

If it makes you feel better, it's one of my favorites so far.

It does, thank you

[Old Harry MTX]

If it makes you feel better, it's one of my favorites so far.

Same for me!

[nickl_2000]

Review time for the ones that are out there.

Spoiler: Artificer Specialization: Game Master

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First of all, I am entertained by having a GM class in a tabletop RP game. I know it isn't exact, but it's still funny.

Bonus Proficiencies - This definitely needs to allow you to cast through the gaming set as well as the tools that are standard to the artificer. It's a low power change, but very stylistic.

Artificial Spirit - You mention in here that the AS has the ability to Help you cheat while you are playing with the set. In terms of game mechanics does that mean it uses a Help action to give you advantage on all checks with the gaming set that it inhibits? For the sake of the observation, is the AS considered scrying magic? As in, would it not be able to see and/or deduce abilities on someone with non-detection

Dragon Chess: Check - At will incapacitate is a pretty powerful effect, especially against someone who has a low wisdom save (especially since you can figure out the wisdom compared to your own). I would have to see it in play to see just how effective it is, but it could be completely game changing (especially if you could pair it with heat metal or another bonus action damaging spell like that).

Playing Cards: Trap Card - So, hearts certainly makes sense for the charmed ability, but it is really weak in comparison to stun, restrained, and unconscious. When using this, I would find that it would be disappointing if that is what I rolled. I'm not sure what would be better though, my first thought was dominated but that is likely to powerful. If I think of anything that feels similar in power and makes sense thematically I will let you know.

Duplicate Effort - Observed is a bit confusing here. Does it mean that you are using your level 3 ability for the AS to observe the creature? Or does it mean that the PC is seeing the creature? Personally I think it should be the second, at level 10 you are allowing for 1 roll per short rest. That doesn't seem like it is all that much, so I think it should be easier to get.

Dragon Chess: Check and Mate - Holy cow this is powerful. I would be looking to use this many rounds (since by using this I can use an action to make someone useless for a round. With the tendency for PCs to outnumber the bad guys this can do some serious damage). Once you get them to the third round the bad guy is effectively dead (since they have failed 3 times in a row and now have disadvantage on saves).

Playing Cards: Deadly Trap - 2d12 damage is pretty weak compared to an at will instant exhaustion. Also, how does the damage work when you charm someone?

Dice: Fumble - This is cool, I really, really like this. A question, how does it work on a spell attack? Do they hit themselves with the spell instead of you? Another question, what happens if I force an NPC to fail a grapple check when it's not on their turn? Does that NPC lose their entire next turn?

Spoiler: Roguish Archetype: Dirty Fighter

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Definitely takes a lot of inspiration from the battlemaster, to the point of stealing many abilites from them. The good news is that you aren't being a better battlemaster than the battlemaster. I would like to see more unique abilities though to differentiate this subclass more from the battlemaster.

Pocket Sand - This is really powerful. They fail one save, based on the rogue's best stat, and they a blinded for up to 6 rounds? At least give them a chance to make the save again at the end of each of their turns (or allow them to use an action to wash the sand out of their eyes).

Truthfully, I won't need to much more than riposte for a rogue. Since you have the ability to apply a sneak attack once per turn, I now have 4+ times during each short rest that I can sneak attack 2 times in a round. It's enough to make a rogue player drool.

Personally, I would drop the riposte option entirely and add a few more unique dirty fighting moves. Maybe a kick to the groin, a leg sweep, an eye gouge, a attack directed at the hand, a flourish that hides you attack, yelling insults to enrage the enemy, things like that.

Spoiler: Cleric Subclass: Luxury Domain

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Pursuer of Luxury - So first reaction here was "All artisan tools" geez. And then I realized that this is mostly used in downtime and who cares. So, don't worry about the text at all I just wanted to let you know my reaction.


So, truth be told there isn't a lot that I have to say about this. The abilities on this class are non-combat and are well balanced to be cool without gamebreaking in anyway. This whole subclass is well written, well designed, and well fluffed. I personally wouldn't change much and I would absolutely allow this in a game I was DMing.

Spoiler: Born Perfection - Sorcerer Origin

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Captivating Allure - What part of this is only once per long rest? Is it adding Charisma or the reaction to charm, or both? If it isn't both, it should be because being able to add charisma to AC without a reaction at will is really broken :)

Sorcerer Supreme - This creates some pretty serious issues with a Sorcadin Multiclass. Effectively I can now cast Green Flame Blade or Booming Blade 2 times per round at will. So, I'm still doing 2 attacks each round like a Paladin and adding on the bonus damage when I hit, plus I have a chance to smite with the sorcerer spell slots. Even on a full class sorcerer it is pretty crazy. I will be extending every long term spell, and will often extend a spell in the first round of combat, then twin cantrips like crazy.

Stunning Attraction - Powerful, but feels fine to me.

There are a lot of cool things going on in here and there is a lot of good flavour. The level 6 sorcerer supreme ability breaks the class pretty severely though.

Spoiler: Druid: Circle of the Crystalline

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Focus Crystal - The focus is really confusing here. Is it saying that "if you cast an AoE spell, you can instead make it affect only one person. When you do they get disadvantage on the save against the spell for the duration of the spell"? The fluff here is very nice, but it really confuses things.

Crystal Formed - So, this applies to Wildshape, Shapeshift, Polymorph, and True Polymorph. What about conjure animals (that summons fey creatures which take the form of beasts)?

Read the Crystals - This could be a lot simpler to say "You can cast a divination spell through your crystal focus without expending your use of focus crystal"

Body Reorganized - I thought 5e got rid of long term petrify, making is so that you have the ability to save every round no matter what. It's a capstone, so it likely isn't a big deal, especially since it's a once per short rest ability. Still it could be pretty broken to effectively have a 2 fail death.


There is a lot of good things going on here, and it has a very good concept and focus on that concept. Overall it is very good.

Spoiler: Sorcerous Origin: The Savant

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Arcane Prodigy - The ability to focus is super interesting to me, I can't tell if it is broken or not since I don't know spell schools well enough, but it seems like it would be fine. I like the flexibility it causes for a more rigid caster class.

Efficient Savant - This is cool, more damage guaranteed is nice. Seems like it would be great for charm, command, and suggestions type spells (but then I love those spells).

Callosal Spellcasting - I'm leery on this ability. I guess there isn't a huge difference between this and twin (although with enough SP and time you could get yourself concentrating on 4 spells at a time with twin. Sure it's a lot of SP, but you could twin Elemental Weapon and Haste on your melee people and make them your best friends for life). I'm not entirely sure that this is a bad thing though, it really doesn't feel like a problem.

I, cautiously, adore this class. I think it would be a lot of fun to play and would lead to some odd combination of spells that you normal don't see. I feel like there is a way to break it pretty badly (especially with dual concentration), but I just haven't figured out how to do it yet. I will look through the spell lists and see what I can come up with later today and see if I can find something that would be absolutely broken.

There we go, all reviews done of what is out there. Some amazing entries this time around!

[RickAsWritten]

Review time for the ones that are out there.

Spoiler: Druid: Circle of the Crystalline

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Focus Crystal - The focus is really confusing here. Is it saying that "if you cast an AoE spell, you can instead make it affect only one person. When you do they get disadvantage on the save against the spell for the duration of the spell"? The fluff here is very nice, but it really confuses things.

Yeah, this one needs some work. It's meant to allow a Druid to cause an AoE to hit one person instead of the group. I thought that it would be good for the Druid's many slow-burn damaging spells like Flaming Sphere and Moonbeam, but now that you've pointed out the confusion, I realize it doesn't work as intended because those spells do damage on enemy turns.

I may scrap it and go the opposite way. Refracting Crystal. Once per long rest, you can cause a single target spell to affect a second target...or maybe make it a roll. Roll 1d4 and that's how many times your spell refracts and how many targets are affected. I'm gonna have to reread their spell list to see how that plays...hmm.

Crystal Formed - So, this applies to Wildshape, Shapeshift, Polymorph, and True Polymorph. What about conjure animals (that summons fey creatures which take the form of beasts)?

I think that might be a bit too much. Summons already add considerable time to rounds and significant power level. Having to add 2 to every wolf attack and bite DC is too much maths.

Read the Crystals - This could be a lot simpler to say "You can cast a divination spell through your crystal focus without expending your use of focus crystal"

I intended it to give you another use of the focus spell ability, but since that ability is part of the crystal as a spellcasting focus ability, it's not clearly worded. I hate to give them three level 2 abilities though, so will consider your change.

Body Reorganized - I thought 5e got rid of long term petrify, making is so that you have the ability to save every round no matter what. It's a capstone, so it likely isn't a big deal, especially since it's a once per short rest ability. Still it could be pretty broken to effectively have a 2 fail death.

I may have...aggressively borrowed that from the Gorgon stat block, so it's not completely gone from 5e, but I'm gonna make a change to this. I think I'll look to the Tomb of Levistus invocation and make it an instant petrify that breaks after being damaged.

There is a lot of good things going on here, and it has a very good concept and focus on that concept. Overall it is very good.

See notes. Thanks for the feedback as always.

[nickl_2000]

See notes. Thanks for the feedback as always.

I look forward to seeing the new version of the level 2 base ability.

I agree that the bonus shouldn't apply to summons, but based on the wording it could be argued. Maybe just a little more clarification in there, or maybe just define the spells and abilities directly so that it can't be abused?

Instant petrify that breaks on damage is WAY better. It's disabling, but not instant death.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Review time for the ones that are out there.

Spoiler: Artificer Specialization: Game Master

Show

First of all, I am entertained by having a GM class in a tabletop RP game. I know it isn't exact, but it's still funny.

Bonus Proficiencies - This definitely needs to allow you to cast through the gaming set as well as the tools that are standard to the artificer. It's a low power change, but very stylistic.

Artificial Spirit - You mention in here that the AS has the ability to Help you cheat while you are playing with the set. In terms of game mechanics does that mean it uses a Help action to give you advantage on all checks with the gaming set that it inhibits? For the sake of the observation, is the AS considered scrying magic? As in, would it not be able to see and/or deduce abilities on someone with non-detection

Dragon Chess: Check - At will incapacitate is a pretty powerful effect, especially against someone who has a low wisdom save (especially since you can figure out the wisdom compared to your own). I would have to see it in play to see just how effective it is, but it could be completely game changing (especially if you could pair it with heat metal or another bonus action damaging spell like that).

Playing Cards: Trap Card - So, hearts certainly makes sense for the charmed ability, but it is really weak in comparison to stun, restrained, and unconscious. When using this, I would find that it would be disappointing if that is what I rolled. I'm not sure what would be better though, my first thought was dominated but that is likely to powerful. If I think of anything that feels similar in power and makes sense thematically I will let you know.

Duplicate Effort - Observed is a bit confusing here. Does it mean that you are using your level 3 ability for the AS to observe the creature? Or does it mean that the PC is seeing the creature? Personally I think it should be the second, at level 10 you are allowing for 1 roll per short rest. That doesn't seem like it is all that much, so I think it should be easier to get.

Dragon Chess: Check and Mate - Holy cow this is powerful. I would be looking to use this many rounds (since by using this I can use an action to make someone useless for a round. With the tendency for PCs to outnumber the bad guys this can do some serious damage). Once you get them to the third round the bad guy is effectively dead (since they have failed 3 times in a row and now have disadvantage on saves).

Playing Cards: Deadly Trap - 2d12 damage is pretty weak compared to an at will instant exhaustion. Also, how does the damage work when you charm someone?

Dice: Fumble - This is cool, I really, really like this. A question, how does it work on a spell attack? Do they hit themselves with the spell instead of you? Another question, what happens if I force an NPC to fail a grapple check when it's not on their turn? Does that NPC lose their entire next turn?

There we go, all reviews done of what is out there. Some amazing entries this time around!

Thanks so much for the feedback.

Oversight on casting through game set. Will change

AS Observation should be rewritten as “creature you can see.” Nondetection shouldn’t block it, but I’m fine if Invis does.

Dragon Chess Check is not so different from Enchanter Wizard 2, but I forgot the text about how it breaks if they take damage. Check and Mate is very powerful, but not against a legendary foe that could auto succeed on the first save and be immune thereafter, and lesser foes are probably comin in numbers where incapacitating 1 with your action isn’t the best idea unless you’re using your bonus action on something like Flaming Sphere. It’s also dependent on having an ally stand in the creature’s reach.

Trap Card: Hearts turns every spell into a charm spell. I also forgot to add the text about how the others end at the end of your next turn or offer additional saves while Charm only ends when the spell ends. Consider Bane, to my knowledge doesn’t offer additional saves. This is important when Deadly Trap Card comes up later.

Given the grievous conditions the other Traps offer and scaling durations depending on severity, Deadly traps isn’t going to be a huge bump for them, Hearts however gets a huge boost. Consider Bane. As a level 1 spell the likelihood of a legendary creature burning a legendary resistance is low, then if you pull hearts, that’s essentially immunity to that creatures attacks for you and d12x rounds of combat, possibly 10d12 total at no further action for you. Bane doesn’t end or offer additional saves, it’s just a minor nerf, which is now huge. Same for something like Enlarge/Reduce. It’s a tight synergy, but important.

Fumble- For spells I would say yes, they hit you if an attack roll is made, but for grapples it would be up to the DM. grappling in 5e isn’t too complex, but this ability is only specific about missed attacks. If it were me they might try to avoid the grapple and end up restrained as their pants fall down around their ankles.

Duplicate effort is getting a rewrite to just be “final total.” Not d20 roll. That makes it a peanut butter best mixed with the chocolate of having your set Observe an ally. Imagine observing the Rogue then using their stealth check? Or the Barbarian’s grapple check?

Thanks so much for your feedback, I’ll have the edits up soon!

[Fnissalot]

Review time for the ones that are out there.

Spoiler: Born Perfection - Sorcerer Origin

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Captivating Allure - What part of this is only once per long rest? Is it adding Charisma or the reaction to charm, or both? If it isn't both, it should be because being able to add charisma to AC without a reaction at will is really broken :)

Sorcerer Supreme - This creates some pretty serious issues with a Sorcadin Multiclass. Effectively I can now cast Green Flame Blade or Booming Blade 2 times per round at will. So, I'm still doing 2 attacks each round like a Paladin and adding on the bonus damage when I hit, plus I have a chance to smite with the sorcerer spell slots. Even on a full class sorcerer it is pretty crazy. I will be extending every long term spell, and will often extend a spell in the first round of combat, then twin cantrips like crazy.

Stunning Attraction - Powerful, but feels fine to me.

There are a lot of cool things going on in here and there is a lot of good flavour. The level 6 sorcerer supreme ability breaks the class pretty severely though.

There we go, all reviews done of what is out there. Some amazing entries this time around!

Captivating allure should cover both or rather the first part as the second part can only happen when you do the first part, will look over the wording on it.

Well spotted on sorcerer supreme. I will need to go back to the drawing board on that one. Edit: quickened spell costs 2 sorcery points so it wouldn't work. But I guess you could twinspell booming blade with it. One solution would be to limit it to abjuration, enchantment, and transmutation spells as sorcerers have no damaging cantrips of those schools as then the best combo would be blade ward as a bonus action when you cast a cantrip with your action. Or I limit it to when you spend a spell slot. Another option, which would be effective but boring, would be to just give them additional sorcery points they could only use on metamagic. Any thoughts anyone? I feel a bit unsure what to do with this at the moment.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Phhase]

Alright, College of Fate's Beloved is up. Legend has it, it's so handsome, it could seduce your sword into not attacking you. Feedback SoonTM!

[Edea]

...I am now wanting to roll up a Half-Sword Paladin, oath-bound to find the lout who betrayed the trust of his steel-forged mother and dispense slashing justice upon him.

[nickl_2000]

Alright, College of Fate's Beloved is up. Legend has it, it's so handsome, it could seduce your sword into not attacking you. Feedback SoonTM!

Spoiler: Review of College of Fate's Beloved

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I don't see much broken here, although I wonder about this sentence in the capstone "After using one of these options, you cannot use any of your subclass's active features (Rude!, Hey..., and How could you?) until you finish a short or long rest." What is the reason for this? By using your once a long rest ability you are losing all your other abilities until you complete a short rest? I don't see the need and it seems to take away the fun of the class.

Overall though, this is a completely ridiculous, silly, and fun subclass that would be awesome to play in a non-serious game.

[MoleMage]

Alright everyone, I'm back. I want to thank Phhase for volunteering to tally votes and get the next contest started. I'm also adding a week to the current contest (so it now ends Oct 4 and voting will start on Oct 5), since three weeks is a little short for a contest and it started in the middle of a week anyway. I've not had time to read through all the entries or start one of my own just yet, but I plan to do that next week sometime.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Welcome back! I hope all is taken care of.

[Phhase]

Alright everyone, I'm back. I want to thank Phhase for volunteering to tally votes and get the next contest started. I'm also adding a week to the current contest (so it now ends Oct 4 and voting will start on Oct 5), since three weeks is a little short for a contest and it started in the middle of a week anyway. I've not had time to read through all the entries or start one of my own just yet, but I plan to do that next week sometime.

Updated the post to reflect new dates, tyvm and welcome back .

[sengmeng]

Welcome back, MoleMage! Also, welcome back, me! I locked myself out of my account for a few days.

My entry is up, with some much needed love for the ranger with the archetype of the Unerring Marksman.

[nickl_2000]

Welcome back, MoleMage! Also, welcome back, me! I locked myself out of my account for a few days.

My entry is up, with some much needed love for the ranger with the archetype of the Unerring Marksman.

Glad you were able to make it back in. And glad to hear that life got a little easier MoleMage.

Spoiler: Review Time then

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So, this is a killer, killer dip for a rogue if your campaign has the levels. You end up with the longbow/heavy crossbow, shields, archery style, and don't even lose out on sneak attack damage (you actually will do more at certain levels). I really do like that this can be used for a thrown weapon as well as a normal ranged weapon. I wouldn't mind seeing an added ability that let's you draw and throw a weapon as part of an attack to facilitate dagger thrower builds.

Trick Shot For accuracy dies on trick shots, when do you declare you are using it? After you hit? When you make an attack? After you roll an attack, but before you know if it's a hit or not? This is an important distinction. The fact that you are using Dex to make the DC here is a little odd. I get it conceptually, but a Ranger already has a spell DC based on wisdom, so you will have to remember 2 different DCs. Not saying it's wrong, but it could be confusing at times.

Lucky Shot - This gets into a bit of an odd situation when you have advantage where you could roll a 1 and a 2 and enter up with lower attack overall. I'm not sure about the 1->10 mechanic personally. I almost would rather see something like the the lucky trait on halflings where you get to re-roll a 1 on an attack roll.

Superior Shot - The long ranger ability is stylistic and fitting, but ultimately may turn out useless for many people since you most people are going to be taking sharpshooter already when using this subclass.

Perfect Shot - Same this with sharpshooter here for ignoring cover. Don't get me wrong, the 18-20 critical is pretty great especially with the bonus damage, but half of this feature will be completely useless to a ranger.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure if you need to change the overlapping abilities between perfect shot/superior shot and sharpshooter. You are already giving more special shots and doing more damage each round with leveling up.


Follow-up Shot - This is really great, and I could see myself using it a lot (especially with a rogue multiclass).

Gearsplitter - I'm not sure about this one. It is probably fine, but it feels wrong to me being able to replace a thieves tool check.

Holy Shot - This sucker is overpowered. 50 HP and based on your dex for the save? The idea of this seems off to me since it's not really a holy class in general.

Skirmishing Shot - The movement part on this is odd, the only time this would actually be useful as it is written is when making an attack on someone else's turn. During your turn you can move whenever you want. Or is the intent on this to give extra movement?

Spellsplitter - So, you are casting a 3rd level spell at level 3? And you can cast 4+ of them every short rest? And you can cast 2 of them per turn? This one needs to go, it is flat out to much. Way, way to much.


Overall, I like this subclass. There are a lot of cool features to it, and it's certainly something I would want to play as a ranger. There are a few clarifying things needed, and a few balance issues on the trick shots.