D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[nickl_2000]

Lucky Charms?

Perfect, thank you. How about this one that I'm not happy with?

Undercooked Meal: You purposely do a poor job cooking this meal. While it looks and tastes great, it doesn’t sit well in the stomach. Anyone who consumes this meal, must make a constitution save against your cooking utensils check using Wisdom (1d20 + Cook’s Tools bonus + Wisdom Bonus) or be poisoned for the next hour.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Perfect, thank you. How about this one that I'm not happy with?

Undercooked Meal: You purposely do a poor job cooking this meal. While it looks and tastes great, it doesn’t sit well in the stomach. Anyone who consumes this meal, must make a constitution save against your cooking utensils check using Wisdom (1d20 + Cook’s Tools bonus + Wisdom Bonus) or be poisoned for the next hour.

That's a hard one. I'm reminded of a story that you should never order your steak well done at a restaurant because that's the one that fell on the floor earlier. But that's too obscure. So maybe... French Fish/Fish à la France?

Spoiler: Fish in French is

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Poisson.

Might be a little immersion breaking because there is no place called France on the Sword Coast.

[nickl_2000]

[QUOTE=Lvl 2 Expert;24741974]That's a hard one. I'm reminded of a story that you should never order your steak well done at a restaurant because that's the one that fell on the floor earlier. But that's too obscure. So maybe... French Fish?
[spoiler="Fish in French is"]Poisson.

I went with Sushi chicken, as a reference to a very stupid internet meme. Also got a few more in there.

(replacing Charming meal)
BBQ Feast: As a wise man once sang, “You don’t win friends with salad”. Anyone consuming this meal must make a saving against your cooking DC or be charmed for the next hour. Anyone failing the save enjoys the dinner, but isn’t aware of your attempt to charm them.

King’s Cake: You have baked a delicious cake with a small crown inside it and the person consuming this meal was lucky enough to get the crown. Before the next rest, when they roll a 1 on a d20 roll, it automatically becomes a 19.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

What about Sushi Chicken? Rare Chicken?

Yes, that's a good direction. Both (not super fresh) sushi (and seafood in general) and (under-cooked) chicken are kind of known for that. Maybe something like Chicken à la Minute? Barbecue Chicken? Shrimp Salad? Something that suggests rareness without quite saying it...

EDIT: Although anything with shrimp in it should probably magically reduce the eater in size for an hour or something... Jumbo Shrimp might even go both ways.

EDIT during edit: I'm still finishing my thought even though I just noticed you've got your winner.

For the King's Cake: maybe specify if this is every time they roll a one or just one time.

[nickl_2000]

Yes, that's a good direction. Both (not super fresh) sushi (and seafood in general) and (under-cooked) chicken are kind of known for that. Maybe something like Chicken à la Minute? Barbecue Chicken? Shrimp Salad? Something that suggests rareness without quite saying it...

EDIT: Although anything with shrimp in it should probably magically reduce the eater in size for an hour or something...

Jumbo Shrimp would be a perfect place to put in the Enlarge/Reduce Spell, but that is more powerful than I want to give anyone.


And yes, that is completely what I meant with King's Cake. All 1s turning into a 19 would be WAY overpowered. Thanks, I fixed that.

[Old Harry MTX]

Undercooked Meal: You purposely do a poor job cooking this meal. While it looks and tastes great, it doesn’t sit well in the stomach. Anyone who consumes this meal, must make a constitution save against your cooking utensils check using Wisdom (1d20 + Cook’s Tools bonus + Wisdom Bonus) or be poisoned for the next hour.

Mmm... Suspiciously good looking meal?

[Breccia]

Spoiler: The Exterminator

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I applaud seeing more Rangers out there. It's still a class that needs more love in 5e. :)

Toxic Knowledge - First thing here. If you already have the poisoners kit you lose out on part of this ability, typically when you give this ability you should give a backup if they already have it (or expertise in poisoners kit if they already have it). My major problem with this ability is that you give them the ability to modify poisons to be more effective, but poisons are not very effective in 5e. They are either INCREDIBLY expensive, or they don't do all that much. Either way, they are not the best for overall action economy.

It may be worth considering creating a list of new poisons that this ranger can make with this ability at a reduced cost, or at least make applying a poison to require a "lower" action or an object interaction.

The Fragility of Life - An effective ability and fitting to the subclass. It hurts if you aren't fighting a favored enemy, but I think the damage increases make up for that somewhat.

And How to Bring It - Crit from 20 to 19-20 seems fine. There is a slight typo in Dexterity of Constitution. I'm not sure on a +2 on the DC of a spell, it would likely be okay since a ranger generally cares about Dex before Wisdom so their spell DCs tend to be lower, but again you are focused on favored enemies so it should be fine.

Crush the Swarm - Seems fine, a damage boost, but still limited.

Remove the Head or Destroy the Brain - So, a decently powerful capstone but a bit of a boring one.

From a player perspective I've got a few significant issues with this subclass. One is that most of the abilities are pretty passive (i.e. you just get better at something rather than having more options). This isn't necessarily bad design, and there are certainly plenty of official options that do exactly that. So, this isn't as significant. The significant issue I see here is that if you aren't fighting on of your favored enemies you get absolutely nothing from your subclass, I mean nothing at all. Since the favored enemies of a ranger tend to be pretty specific and you only get 3 of them, there are going to be plenty of times that you don't run into a favored enemy.

I would really like to see this subclass get more favored enemies, or abilities that apply to all enemies but are better against favored enemies. That would make a substantial difference in the overall enjoyability of playing this subclass.

Some examples I can give:
-You can make extra poisons and apply them more easily. The DC is higher against favored enemies.
-You deal an extra 1d6 damage against everyone. Against a favored enemy it starts at 1d8 and increases over time.

As I said above, the design goal here is to make sure that the PC always gets something, but they get something better than going again their specialty. That way they never feel like an ability gained is wasted, or they go a session without using an ability.

Wow, I'm surprised anyone took the time, it really was a last-minute rush job.

Thanks for looking at it! The idea was "Ranger Champion" so yes, the abilities are moistly passive. I agree that 5E poisons are, um, not stellar. I like your idea about brewing extra/special poisons.

I'm probably not going to do a drastic rewrite. I fully admit this was a rush job, and I should stand behind the results. I'll have something better for the next contest I promise! Until then, nobody's going to hurt my feelings by voting for everyone else first.

[nickl_2000]

Wow, I'm surprised anyone took the time, it really was a last-minute rush job.

Thanks for looking at it! The idea was "Ranger Champion" so yes, the abilities are moistly passive. I agree that 5E poisons are, um, not stellar. I like your idea about brewing extra/special poisons.

I'm probably not going to do a drastic rewrite. I fully admit this was a rush job, and I should stand behind the results. I'll have something better for the next contest I promise! Until then, nobody's going to hurt my feelings by voting for everyone else first.

Okay first things first. This is not a bad subclass. It has some really good things in here and some really good ideas, so don't you dare get down on yourself. Homebrewing is a hard thing to do, and takes some learning to get down and even with experience some will be duds. Even after that, not everything will be everyone's cup of tea (I've seen some terrific homebrews in the contest that I wouldn't play if someone paid me, they just aren't a style I enjoy playing). And don't feel that this subclass needs to be completed after the contest is over. If you want to keep modifying it, please do and drop a message in the chat that you did. Many would be happy to take a look at new revisions after the contest is over.


Also, in the future, if you make something and it just doesn't seem to work or you can't come up with ideas to go with it, just table it. I have a listing of about 25 subclass ideas that just didn't work in my google drive, and try as I mind I CANNOT get a Fey based sorcerer or Cleric that I like (and I've tried at least 10 different versions, they are all complete unplayable junk). I also have some that I've "completed" and looked back at and said "well this is unplayable" and tossed it back to the drawing board.

[Edea]

I have a listing of about 25 subclass ideas that just didn't work in my google drive, and try as I mind I CANNOT get a Fey based sorcerer or Cleric that I like (and I've tried at least 10 different versions, they are all complete unplayable junk). I also have some that I've "completed" and looked back at and said "well this is unplayable" and tossed it back to the drawing board.

I know that I'm waiting for Tasha's to drop to get a real feel for what's an acceptable 'bonus spells known' limitation before going gung-ho with sorcerous origins (more specifically, whether Aberrant Mind/Psionic (Mind/Soul) kept the 'domain list'-esque mechanic at 1st or not); already sitting on a fire-based one and an illusion-based one which need to have this info first.

[Phhase]

Looks like new entries and new participants keep rolling in! What is it that's making us so popular all of a sudden!? Not that I mind.

Spoiler: The Verminator Ranger

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Toxic Knowledge
Some of the better poisons in the PHB have rather low DCs with Con as the save, so this is pretty decent depending on what's available. Does a poison harvested from a dead creature count and a poison that the player "made themselves?".

The Fragility of Life
Frankly unimpressive, sorry. Unless UNLESS you use it on Magic Missile, in which case it's pretty damn good, but still niche. What if this had some sort of extra debilitating effect when striking a creature that is poisoned? That would fit the theme.

And how to Bring It
Again, eh. I know there's an audience for classes that are simple and don't really DO anything other than Hit It Very Hard, but I guess that's not me. Any veteran can tell you I'm the premiere complexity addict around here.

Crush the Swarm
In what situation does a weapon attack damage more than one creature? Perhaps instead, add a Cleave effect that lets you actually, you know, do that with weapon attacks.

"Wow Roy, I didn't know you had such great cleavage!.
-Elan the Bard

Remove the Head or Destroy the Brain
Hnnnng. It's fine but...couldn't it be a LITTLE more exciting? What if it allowed you to automatically execute/autocrit favored enemies that you hit that are below some sort of health threshold/suffering some sort of effect? That sounds more like what it should do.

Overall
I get that it's supposed to be Champion Ranger, but the poison feature just doesn't seem like much more than a ribbon to justify the exterminator name. The rest of the subclass seems to ignore it, while contest that it should revolve more around the poison theme. I recommend either removing the poison and calling it Slayer or something, or doubling down on poison. But that's just me. And again, it's not a bad subclass, I just don't like personally.

Don't worry, you have plenty of time to make edits if you like, deadline was extended!

Spoiler: Intercepting Fist Monk

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Empty Your Cup
Interesting, a little finicky, but certainly good, no doubt about that. Would go well with Game Master Artificer, to tell you what you should fortify yourself against.

Be Like Water
Interesting. Seems like something you'd want to do before combat, since bonus actions are really important for Monk. I'm not sure how much it's worth, but I can certainly see it being used for things like cutting ropes with the edge of your hand or activating the Slasher feat.

Game of Death
Neat, overkill protection!

One-Inch Punch
Does the attack have to be made against the attacking creature, or just anyone within reach? And oof, pretty stronk! I'm now imagining a crit-stacking smite build.

Enter the Dragon
Seems good. Just making the base Monk features go up to 11.

Overall
Not bad! A good mix of power, durability, complexity, and simplicity.

[Old Harry MTX]

Hi guys! I used this extra time to make the Homebrewery version as well.

You can find it here: Sidekick Ranger

[Breccia]

Exterminator updated -- the idea of having more poisons sounded really good, so I added it.

That's it, though. Anything else is too drastic a rewrite, and I wouldn't feel ethical in doing so. I'll just look for the next contest earlier.

[nickl_2000]

Exterminator updated -- the idea of having more poisons sounded really good, so I added it.

That's it, though. Anything else is too drastic a rewrite, and I wouldn't feel ethical in doing so. I'll just look for the next contest earlier.

I don't see any poisons in there, just references to them. Did you forget to include them?

[Breccia]

I don't see any poisons in there, just references to them. Did you forget to include them?

Listed under Toxic Knowledge. They're existing poisons in the DMG.

[Old Harry MTX]

Hi Guys!
I'm here to ask for advice on a doubt I have about the Sidekick. Studying the various Ranger's subclasses I noticed that, usually, at 11th level you get an offensive feature, while at 15th you get a defensive one. Do you think it is better to swap Complete Synergy and Flanking Counterattack to respect this habit?

Thanks in advance!

[Lvl 2 Expert]

It's not just rangers even, pretty much all martials get some sort of an equivalent of the fighter's third attack at level 11, while spellcasters benefit from a step up in cantrip power. Flanking counterattack does seem like a feature that could work in that spot.

[Old Harry MTX]

It's not just rangers even, pretty much all martials get some sort of an equivalent of the fighter's third attack at level 11, while spellcasters benefit from a step up in cantrip power. Flanking counterattack does seem like a feature that could work in that spot.

Thanks, I fully agree!
I was also thinking that by doing this swap I get at 11th level a feature suitable for a caster Pal and another for a fighter Pal, as already at 5th level, so it's even more balanced.

I make the change immediately.

[CountDVB]

Today's last day to make edits and contributions for the contest, right?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Today's last day to make edits and contributions for the contest, right?

Yup, it is.

(Made the minor change of substituting Disguise Self in for Frost Fingers, was Comprehend Languages earlier. It seems like the better fit after all.)

[Edea]

So many good entries!

[Phhase]

Quite the panoply, indeed! Can't wait to see how the votes pan out.

[Phhase]

Voting thread soon?

[Old Harry MTX]

So many good entries!

True! Considering the theme of the contest so generic I thought there would be far fewer entries.

[MoleMage]

Voting thread is up!

It's a little later in the day than I'd prefer but I had a jury summons first thing this morning so my whole schedule is off.

[CountDVB]

Hopefully it all went well! This will be fun!

And yeah, alot of entries. Guess like Thog said about elegancy in simplicity.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Two days to vote.

[MoleMage]

Alright I haven't forgotten about this, and it's time to declare our winners!

In third place, with six points earned each, we have a tie between Edea's Luxury Domain and Ilerien's Exemplar Rogue! One's opulent, the other is optimal, which will you pick?

In second place, with seven points apiece, we have a three-way tie between BerzerkerUnit's Game Master, RickAsWritten's Circle of the Crystalline, and Lvl 2 Expert's Pharmacist Ranger. That's too many different things to easily make a joke about, but good work all three!

And in first place, with 11 points earned, we have nickl_2000's Chef! Let good food be your good fight, but don't forget to eat it too!

For themes, it's a little more cut-and-dry. Something Borrowed took the cake with 9 points compared to the runner-up Refine Mayhem at 6. We'll see Refine Mayhem again in next contest's voting pool, and we'll see Something Borrowed II on its own thread shortly.

Voting is called!

At this point I feel like I need to establish some tie breakers like I have for the Base Class Contest. Would anyone object to me just copying those over into Subclass contest going forward? For reference, the tiebreakers over there are:

• 1st: Contestants who voted win ties over contestants who did not.
• 2nd: Contestants who earned more 1st place votes in reaching their total win.
• 3rd: The tie stands.

In any event, keep your eyes peeled for Something Borrowed II in a little bit! EDIT: Here it is!

[MoleMage]

I gave this one an extra week because I know I'm going to be busy the last week of November. The two-week extension can still be requested, and it'll be in addition to the already-included free week.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Nice, congratulations all around but mostly to Nickl! And everyone thanks for voting!

And even BerzerkerUnit made it in to vote today. Good. Although I must admit I was looking forward to pointing out the humor in a placeholder that said "good that I didn't miss the voting this time" never getting replaced. ;)

At this point I feel like I need to establish some tie breakers like I have for the Base Class Contest. Would anyone object to me just copying those over into Subclass contest going forward? For reference, the tiebreakers over there are:

• 1st: Contestants who voted win ties over contestants who did not.
• 2nd: Contestants who earned more 1st place votes in reaching their total win.
• 3rd: The tie stands.

I'm not enough of a regular to really weigh in on these things, but that sounds like an entirely reasonable proposal.

[nickl_2000]

Nice, congratulations all around but mostly to Nickl! And everyone thanks for voting!

And even BerzerkerUnit made it in to vote today. Good. Although I must admit I was looking forward to pointing out the humor in a placeholder that said "good that I didn't miss the voting this time" never getting replaced. ;)



I'm not enough of a regular to really weigh in on these things, but that sounds like an entirely reasonable proposal.

Thank for the congratulations and congratulations to everyone who entered.

The rules seem perfectly fine to me, I'm good with it.