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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Welcome back to the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! Apparently a full caster wasn't the best choice of ingredient, so let's get back to basics.

    The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 base class (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take all or almost all of their levels in said SI.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in four categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient. The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread. (HM may not always be awarded, particularly if the number of builds is very small.) And then we all have cake!*

    *Note: You must provide your own cake.

    This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!
    • Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 4:59 PM GMT - 8 on Monday, June 04, 2018 (12:59 AM GMT on Tuesday, June 05). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent one. Judging is then expected (*cough*) to take no more than two weeks, so we'll put the judging deadline at approximately two weeks after that, with adjustments as necessary. (You can do the math yourselves; I don't want to put two dates here and confuse people.) Notice that this is slightly earlier in the day than previous deadlines; the goal is to have the deadline be around the time the Chair gets off of work on that particular day, thereby allowing him to post the builds without having to stay up super late or wait until the next day.
    • Kitchen: Let's break this one down a bit.

      Spoiler: Let's talk about sources
      Show
      • ALLOWED: Almost all D&D 3.5 material published by WotC: Core, Completes, monster books, Races Of books, alternate power source books (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, etc.), Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Eberron material, Forgotten Realms material, and other WotC-published 3.5 material. (This list is NOT exhaustive and there are many other legal books that I did not mention by name!)
      • ALLOWED: Material from the 3.5 archives of the Wizards of the Coast website (including, but not limited to, the Mind's Eye articles). If you use it, link it.
      • ALLOWED: Official errata from WotC. If you're relying on this in a material fashion, it's a good idea to link it and to discuss it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Unofficial errata, including "class fixes" (regardless of the source, including from the original author if not published in a WotC book) or fan-created content.
      • ALLOWED: Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) except for 3.0 psionics. No 3.0 psionics allowed. If you are using 3.0 material, use the general-purpose skill updates (Wilderness Lore becomes Survival, Innuendo becomes Bluff, etc.) and the general-purpose rules updates (spells with a casting time of "1 action" become "1 standard action," etc.) when appropriate.
      • NOT ALLOWED: 3.0 material for which a direct 3.5 update exists. Use the updated material instead.
      • ALLOWED: Dragon Compendium and its errata.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Content from Dragon Magazine and/or Dungeon Magazine unless said content appears in an otherwise allowed source.
      • ALLOWED: Oriental Adventures, including the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!
      • NOT ALLOWED: Pathfinder content, regardless of whether it is "D&D 3.5 OGL" or not. If it didn't come from WotC, we don't want it.
      • ALLOWED: From Unearthed Arcana: racial paragon classes, alternate class features/variant classes, spelltouched feats, and variant races. (Traits and flaws are technically legal, but traits warrant a -0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a -1 penalty in Elegance.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Other Unearthed Arcana content, including (but not limited to) bloodlines, LA buyoff, fractional BAB/saves, alternate casting systems, alternate skill systems, item familiars, prestigious character classes, generic classes, gestalt, etc.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Leadership, regardless of source. Game elements functionally equivalent to Leadership (including, but not limited to, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, and Thrallherd) are similarly banned. (Familiars, Improved Familiar, animal companions, Wild Cohort, psicrystals, elemental envoys, and similar game elements are allowed, and they are not considered to be "Leadership." If the difference isn't obvious, feel free to contact the Chair with specific questions.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Third-party content, homebrew, or other non-WotC content.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook. Just because you're "epic" in E6 after 6th level doesn't mean that you're that kind of epic.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Any race or template with a level adjustment other than +0. (Or any other source of LA other than a race or template, if any such things exist.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: For our judges: penalizing solely based on legal sources used, regardless of whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between. If the material is legal, then it doesn't matter how many or how few books it came out of.
      • ALLOWED: Also for our judges: penalizing for using a source (other than material in Core; don't be vindictive about genuinely obvious stuff) that isn't listed in the build writeup. The chef may choose to present the sources in-line with the text, in a consolidated source list, or somewhere else, but if the source is listed (and is otherwise legal), it counts. If the source is not listed, you may choose to penalize for that.

      If you have questions about anything in this section (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.

    • Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
    • Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool. This means NOT posting any of the following or anything substantially similar: what you think is going to be common, significant elements of your planned build or of other potential builds, or anything else that could directly influence someone else's build choices for good or for ill. (It's acceptable to ask for rules clarifications as appropriate, but try to avoid tipping your hand too much.) Speculation is bad because it can discourage people from posting builds and can also "taint the judging pool" when it comes to Originality, so please just try to be aware of how other people might react to your speculation.
    • E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now. We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
    • Presentation: Please use the table found below in the spoiler. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.
      If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules. Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't only list bonuses; make sure that there is a clear listing somewhere of your ranks alone.
      Spoiler
      Show
      Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
      1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      Code for the table:
      Spoiler
      Show
      [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
      [tr]
      [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]1st[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]2nd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]3rd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]4th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]5th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]6th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr][/table]

    • Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat).
    • Judging guidelines: The minimum score in a category is 1, and the maximum is 5. Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question. That said, contestants are asked to not dispute more than necessary; let's do everything in good faith and really only dispute when a judge is being inconsistent, being unfair, or is otherwise grossly misinterpreting a build.
      Judges may not penalize Originality solely because a build is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon; note that this is not the same thing as penalizing Originality for using well-known optimization tactics), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry).
      As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
      Spoiler
      Show
      Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

      Non-exhaustive list of examples:

      Skills
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
      • Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
      • Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


      Not allowed:
      • Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

      Prereqs
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
      • Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
      • Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
      • Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


      Not Allowed:
      • "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
      • Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

      Other general things that are no longer allowed:
      • Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
      • Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


      Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

    • Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.



    This round's secret ingredient: the SWASHBUCKLER, from Complete Warrior! Allez Optimizer!

    The Builds:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Build Chef Judgment from PrismCat21 Place
    Emilio Scoundrel ?? Human Swash3/Truenamer3 Zombulian 10.6 9th, Honorable Mention
    Zandrek CN Shifter Swash5/Barb1 Randuir 17.3 3rd, Bronze
    Vanessa Potshot ?? Lightfoot Halfling Rogue2/SA Fighter1/Swash3 Falontani 12.6 8th
    Swash Shielder N Badger Hengeyokai Arcane Stunt Shield of Blades Swash5/H&R Fighter1 daremetoidareyo 15.8 6th
    Swash Kneebuckler ?? Human Swash5/Crusader1 Macabaret 18.4 2nd, Silver
    Dante Otaile ?? Half-Elf Swash6 tterreb 15.4 7th
    Cassandra Nova Feroxx CG Changeling Rogue1/Swash4/Shaper1 daremetoidareyo 18.5 1st, Gold
    Ahmer Hemsea NG Kalashtar Swash3/Fighter2/Dervish1 Long_shanks 16.9 4th, Honorable Mention
    Badmar the Bold NG Human Swash3/Psy War1/Fighter2 jdizzlean 16.4 5th


    Spoiler: Contest History
    Show
    Last edited by Zaq; 2018-06-24 at 05:34 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I had hoped to wait a little longer before dipping into Complete Warrior again, but after that hard stumble with Shugenja, I feel like we need to go back to where this contest is perhaps strongest: classes that have a very clear intended flavor and yet that have something holding them back from being quite as awesome as the devs seemed to think. Ninja was one of our best rounds, after all, and I see Swashbuckler as being very similar to Ninja in a lot of ways. (Insert "pirates vs. ninjas" joke here, because it's still 2003, right? All your base are belong to—you know what, I'll show myself out.)
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Thank you Zaq for continuing to host with such panache! I'm definitely going to try to get a build in!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I like this, I will enter, and I will like it.


    PS to Zaq; sorry for posting before your second post! I deleted it so you have your second post slot. I didn't realize until I refreshed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Luccan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Woo, finals are over so I should be able to get something in for this one! Sorry I couldn't fit it in with my schedule on the last round, I actually liked the ingredient...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

    I for one support the Gnoman Empire.
    Avatar by linklele

    Spoiler: Build Contests
    Show

    E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing

    E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand


  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I've always liked the Swashbuckler, so I'm definitely going to have a go.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Oh hell yeah.
    Btw Zaq, really, don't feel bad about the Shugenja debacle. It was a difficult problem to foresee with the class being so janky and the contestants having time issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I had hoped to wait a little longer before dipping into Complete Warrior again, but after that hard stumble with Shugenja, I feel like we need to go back to where this contest is perhaps strongest: classes that have a very clear intended flavor and yet that have something holding them back from being quite as awesome as the devs seemed to think. Ninja was one of our best rounds, after all, and I see Swashbuckler as being very similar to Ninja in a lot of ways. (Insert "pirates vs. ninjas" joke here, because it's still 2003, right? All your base are belong to—you know what, I'll show myself out.)
    Whoa I actually completely forgot about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    in to build :)
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I have a thought, but it's a little sketchy. I'll sleep on it and see how it looks in the morning. Definitely interested though, broadly speaking.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DeTess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I'm in to cook. And by that I mean that I've already put all the ingredients in the pot, and am now just letting it simmer a bit before adding some final seasoning.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Four class features in six levels, and two of them are almost completely useless. This is going to be fun.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Luccan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by tterreb View Post
    Four class features in six levels, and two of them are almost completely useless. This is going to be fun.
    It did always bug me that they thought "A slightly better than poor Reflex save" and "One specific bonus feat" were class features.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

    I for one support the Gnoman Empire.
    Avatar by linklele

    Spoiler: Build Contests
    Show

    E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing

    E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand


  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    It did always bug me that they thought "A slightly better than poor Reflex save" and "One specific bonus feat" were class features.
    And I'm counting that bonus feat as one of the slightly better than completely useless features.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I'm expecting some creative solutions to these problems, though I do agree that the Swashbuckler is very, very firmly guilty of giving class features of, shall we say, questionable utility. Still, I have faith that there's going to be some good dishes here, if for no other reason than that the flavor is strong enough to inspire us.

    Also, don't you just love the weird gaps in the skill list? It's the best list in CW, but that isn't saying much. It has a couple useful skills, and yet, it's almost more noteworthy for what it doesn't contain than for what it does.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    It did always bug me that they thought "A slightly better than poor Reflex save" and "One specific bonus feat" were class features.
    On that subject, I'm assuming for this contest the Dodge class feature does NOT count as the Dodge feat for prereq purposes?

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    It doesn't say that it counts as the feat for prereqs, so my feeling is that it's not the feat for prereqs, as obnoxious as that is.

    If you believe you have a strong argument to the contrary, feel free to explicitly spell it out for the judges, but you're pretty much going to be on the hook if that argument isn't accepted.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

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    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    There is actually some language to that effect. It's tucked away in an old 3.0 sourcebook, but has never been contradicted as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sword and Fist, pg. 5
    VIRTUAL FEATS
    If you effectively have a feat as a class feature or special
    ability, then you can use that virtual feat as a
    prerequisite for other feats. What does this mean? If
    you have, for example, some class feature or ability that
    says, “This is the same as Mobility,” then you are
    considered to have the Mobility feat for the purposes
    of acquiring the Spring Attack feat. If you ever lose
    that virtual prerequisite, you also lose access to any
    feats you acquired through its existence.

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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Got one entry in so far. How's everyone doing? I know many people in the States have today off as part of a long weekend, so I won't say that there's no weekend left between now and the deadline, but we're definitely on the downhill side of things.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    i completely forgot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falontani View Post
    i completely forgot.
    You aren't the only one...

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by tterreb View Post
    You aren't the only one...
    Lets build and submit today!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falontani View Post
    Lets build and submit today!
    If I can focus.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I actually remembered, but I'm struggling to come up with anything.

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I have 4 (!) ideas cooking. I'm evaluating what are the best ones and should have the time to write one in, maybe a second, but let's say one for now.

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    Luccan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I have an idea in progress. Should have it submitted by the date.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

    I for one support the Gnoman Empire.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    All that needs doing is formatting :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
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    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
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    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    DeTess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I've got one idea that's almost done. I might need a 4 hour extension to get it in though, because I'll be able to work on it either tomorrow evening or friday evening depending on external circumstances. I'll report on that tomorrow.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    I don't see the rules regarding magic items or WBL (or just equipment in general)? Do I just look up an Iron Chef competition for those?
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Some play RPG's like chess, some like charades.

    Everyone has their own jam.

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleh View Post
    I don't see the rules regarding magic items or WBL (or just equipment in general)? Do I just look up an Iron Chef competition for those?
    There aren't any, really. Most people present their builds without items, or present some examples of items that would work nicely. It's better not to make a build that absolutely needs a certain item to function.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round IX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleh View Post
    I don't see the rules regarding magic items or WBL (or just equipment in general)? Do I just look up an Iron Chef competition for those?
    Whenever I include items judges dock me. It's up to the individual judges.

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