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Thread: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
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2007-09-06, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Hi folks reading this!
I have a question, or actually I'm looking for ideas. I'm helping someone build a character for a campaign I'm in. I have my character all set, but the friend I'm helping wanted a Paladin. His conditions were that his character be a human Paladin, and that the mount flies and is is relatively useful most of the time. Since the campaign starts at level 13, and I own the Draconomicon, I suggested a dragon mount. Long story short, it didn't work out because that's too low a level for any true dragons mountable by a Medium sized human to be in range.
So the DM suggested I convert the Dragon Steed Feat into Leadership, and select a flying mount as a cohort. I'm not sure this is entirely by the rules, but he included that the mount I choose will count as a special mount for the Paladin, and I can include all the goodies from special mount class feature on the flying mount.
So, I looked through and picked a griffon. Large mount, tough in battle, great for charging in with it's Pounce and Rake features, so I figured I was set. Then I applied the Paladin stuff to the griffon and discovered that griffins... tend to get bigger if you give them 6 more HD. They become Huge in fact, which makes them strong enough to lift an entire party of PC's and an elephant with room to spare (I got 34 Str with all the adjustments using the Elite Array).
While it makes it a killing machine, it's going to be tough to get through your average dungeon crawl. Large size would probably be ok, but Huge is a bit much. So I was wondering, is there any magic item I could buy to shrink or shapeshift a Huge Griffon into a more travel sized form? Something perhaps that could be used many times per day? I guess what I want is a Poké Ball, pardon the reference, but I'm up for anything that keep the power of a monster bird-o-death and still lets you bring him along for the fun.
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2007-09-06, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Bribe the DM with pizza to forget that you have your mount with you until the moment you need it.
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2007-09-06, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
You could always look into a permanent Reduce Animal spell. I assume that since it functions like a Reduce Person spell that only affects animals, it can also be made permanent.
If I'm wrong, bribe the DM with pizza so he'll make it right. DM handwaving > book rules.Last edited by Vonriel; 2007-09-06 at 08:26 PM.
-Vonriel
"DEMONS RUN WHEN A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR."
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2007-09-06, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
The problem is that Griffons don't count as animals so you'll be needing the pizza anyway.
I also believe that bonus Hit Dice don't actually add to a mount's size as they don't even advance them as Magical Beasts (d10 hit dice and good base attack), but as animals (d8s and 3/4 BA)Last edited by Dr. Weasel; 2007-09-06 at 09:04 PM.
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2007-09-06, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
I thought so too at first, but I think that the PHB is making a blanket assumption that your mount is an animal (a warhorse or pony, likely) and making sure you don't mix in magical beast HD. How does it make sense to give a magical beast animal hit die? Does it become an abberation, with animal parts sticking out of a griffons body?
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2007-09-06, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Give the Griffon a magical item of "Reduce Monster". There. You now have a smaller creature.
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2007-09-06, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Originally Posted by Tokiko Mima
Originally Posted by SRD
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2007-09-06, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- GMT-8
Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Bonus HD do not increase the size of animal companions or mounts.
From the FAQ:
An animal companion doesn’t get bigger when it adds extra Hit Dice for the master’s levels. The advancement entries for creatures, and the rules for advancing monsters, refer to unusually powerful specimens that are simply tougher (and perhaps bigger) than normal for their kinds.The animal companion rules—or, for that matter, pretty much any other effect that grants a creature bonus Hit Dice—don’t use the monster improvement rules presented in Chapter 4 of the Monster Manual.Last edited by RS14; 2007-09-06 at 10:12 PM. Reason: grammar
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2007-09-06, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Quite right, just as unarmed strike counts as a natural attack for the purposes of spells which only effect natural weapons, even though unarmed Strike is actually NOT a natural weapon at all. It's iterative and allows multiple attacks for a high BAB, whereas natural weapons do not..
Conversely, Paladin Mounts are treated as animals for all important advancement purposes. They gain Hit Dice, Save, skills, Feats, BAB as if they were an animal. However, if you you must treat them as Magical Beasts for all effects that target them. So you have an animal you have to treat as a magical beast.
The rules are a little wonky though, since the moment a paladin's mount gains intelligence greater than 2 it should have converted automatically to magical beast HD. The reason it is still treated as an animal is simply that the rules you quoted keep it that way.
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2007-09-06, 11:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
If it helps, think of "Paladin's mount" as like a class that the mount automatically gains levels in. Just as characters don't get bigger from gaining class levels, so a paladin's mount doesn't get bigger from the paladin levelling up.
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2007-09-06, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Did you not see the Dragonnel in the Draconomicon?
I'm also partial to the drakkensteed, which is in dragon magic, I believe. That one's cool. It looks much more like a dragon than the lame dragonnel.
You're also really, really close to being able to have a dragon as your mount. You can pick up a dragon that can carry you while flying as a cohort at level 14-16, IIRC(It's late.)I am continuing to have a social life. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Serious-Jedi-Me-Avatar by RTG0922. Thanks. Cat-assassin-avatar by onasuma, who I was too dumb to thank. Thanks for that too!
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2007-09-07, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
Hah, quite right, I completely forgot that the griffon wasn't an animal. Imagination at work, give it some room...
-Vonriel
"DEMONS RUN WHEN A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR."
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2007-09-07, 04:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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Re: Extremely HUGE special mounts.
How about a quetzalcoatlus? You can qualify for getting one at level 12 and it's HUGE.
Also, you don't really need to shrink your mount for dungeon crawls since you can just dismiss it when needed.Visit the Chocolate Hammer IRC channel!
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