Statting Out Beowulf

[Crow]

Yes, the hero from the poem. Not some character from any video game.

I am trying to determine what Beowulf would look like in 3.5. For that matter Grendel, Grendel's Mother, and the Dragon.

So far I have Beowulf as a human (of course) Fighter of undetermined level. He would definately have Improved Grapple as one of his feats (having elected to fight Grendel without arms), and would be especially skilled with the sword. Showing respect for the beast, Beouwulf chooses to fight Grendel (who shunned weapons) with his hands, because his victory would be certain if he used his sword. Further, there are numerous times when Beowulf wielded swords (Against Grendel's Mother, who had a dagger, and the Dragon, which Beowulf claims he would have fought unarmed if the beast didn't breath fire). As to the type of sword, I would guess a longsword, as this rather generic-sounding weapon actually most closely matches what we know of swords from the time (from the few surviving examples). So we will likely have the full suite of Weapon Focus/Specialization feats for the longsword (dependant on level, which I cannot determine). Probably he would have some Shield-centric feats, based on the importance of the shield at the time. These are optional though. Also, He would wear a chain shirt. Full chainmail as D&D knows it was just not available. Armor (which was rare) would have been somewhere in between a chain shirt and chainmail...I'll err on the lower side.

Abilities will probably need to be quite high. Probably not achievable even with "High-Powered" point buy. Greatest to lowest priority;

1. Strength. -wrestling a crazy beast, lifting a giant's sword, willing to wrestle a dragon (if only it didn't breath fire!) etc...

2. Constitution. -Beowulf was said to have great endurance, The guy swam wearing his mail for heaven's sake. I forgot the distance...he was competing with his brother I think?

3. Dexterity. -This just seems right. Although he was very strong and hardy, and the text supports these, he seems to have been overall athletic (which is different that just strong and hardy). Being an athlete myself, I think this fits.

4. Charisma. -He led a warband, and was famous before meeting Grendel. Then he ended up a king. Something about him made people want to follow him. He had it.

5. Wisdom. -Was said to be a powerful, and wise king. Wise.

6. Intelligence. -While I wouldn't say it's a dump-stat, and he seems to be at least quite intelligent. It never sais he was a smart king. Though to be powerful and wise, a certain degree of intelligence should be involved.

This is all I have so far, so if anybody could help me with suggestions on how to do this, or fixes on anything I have listed, please do.

[Indon]

He needs the Leadership feat.
Also he should probably have Improved Grapple.
If there is a feat which makes one better with improvised weapons, he may well have that, too.

I'd make him Epic-level, personally.

[MrNexx]

I'd make him a bit of a variant off the standard fighter.

Dump heavy armor and tower shield proficiency, give him Improved Unarmed and Improved Grapple; the first two don't exist, the second two are cultural traits.

Other than that... yeah. Endurance would be good in there. Leadership. Probably Superior Unarmed Strike.

[Merlin the Tuna]

I'd consider making him something like a Goliath, actually. There's a lot there that suits him.

[OverdrivePrime]

Levels of Human Paragon seem appropriate as well.

Good gravy, I can't wait to see that movie.

[Runolfr]

So far I have Beowulf as a human (of course) Fighter of undetermined level. He would definately have Improved Grapple as one of his feats (having elected to fight Grendel without arms), and would be especially skilled with the sword. Showing respect for the beast, Beouwulf chooses to fight Grendel (who shunned weapons) with his hands, because his victory would be certain if he used his sword.

I would argue that Beowulf chose to fight Grendel unarmed because he had been informed by the Danes that weapons were useless against Grendel, who could not be harmed by any weapon forged by men. It is actually defeat that would have been almost certain if Beowulf had tried using his sword.

Further, there are numerous times when Beowulf wielded swords (Against Grendel's Mother, who had a dagger, and the Dragon, which Beowulf claims he would have fought unarmed if the beast didn't breath fire). As to the type of sword, I would guess a longsword, as this rather generic-sounding weapon actually most closely matches what we know of swords from the time (from the few surviving examples).

The sword that Beowulf used against Grendel's mother was a blade forged by giants that he found in her lair. Presumably it would be a two-handed weapon by human standards (at least). Nonetheless, Beowulf uses a sword more than any other weapon in his travels, and a Longsword approximates Scandinavian swords of the period pretty well.

So we will likely have the full suite of Weapon Focus/Specialization feats for the longsword (dependant on level, which I cannot determine). Probably he would have some Shield-centric feats, based on the importance of the shield at the time. These are optional though. Also, He would wear a chain shirt. Full chainmail as D&D knows it was just not available. Armor (which was rare) would have been somewhere in between a chain shirt and chainmail...I'll err on the lower side.

Abilities will probably need to be quite high. Probably not achievable even with "High-Powered" point buy. Greatest to lowest priority;

1. Strength. -wrestling a crazy beast, lifting a giant's sword, willing to wrestle a dragon (if only it didn't breath fire!) etc...

Beowulf was also capable of swimming across a sea in armor, and Swim is a Strength-based skill. The guy was just crazy strong: probably 20+.

2. Constitution. -Beowulf was said to have great endurance, The guy swam wearing his mail for heaven's sake. I forgot the distance...he was competing with his brother I think?

I forget who the competitor was, but he should certainly have an obnoxiously high Constitution score.

3. Dexterity. -This just seems right. Although he was very strong and hardy, and the text supports these, he seems to have been overall athletic (which is different that just strong and hardy). Being an athlete myself, I think this fits.

This is probably the least impressive of his physical stats, but still a good score.

4. Charisma. -He led a warband, and was famous before meeting Grendel. Then he ended up a king. Something about him made people want to follow him. He had it.

Totally.

5. Wisdom. -Was said to be a powerful, and wise king. Wise.

As this stat is in no way necessary to his proposed class, it need not be outrageous, but Beowulf is just an all-around capable guy, so it should still be a good score.

6. Intelligence. -While I wouldn't say it's a dump-stat, and he seems to be at least quite intelligent. It never sais he was a smart king. Though to be powerful and wise, a certain degree of intelligence should be involved.

I can agree there, since Beowulf seldom thought is way through a problem. He was a man of action. He's certainly not stupid, but this need not be an exceptional score.

He should probably have maxed-out physical skills, like Swim, Climb, Jump, etc. His level should vary depending on when in his career you want to depict him.

Playing with an online character generator, I came up with the following for Beowulf early in his career, when he goes to fight Grendel:

Male Human Fighter 8

Strength 20 (+5)
Dexterity 14 (+2)
Constitution 18 (+4)
Intelligence 10 (+0)
Wisdom 13 (+1)
Charisma 14 (+2)

Armor Class: 18 = 10 +4 [chain shirt] +2 [heavy steel] +2 [dexterity]

Feats: Athletic, Endurance, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Leadership, Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus.

Skills: Climb 18, Handle Animal 4, Jump 11, Ride 5, Swim 18.

[Tequila Sunrise]

I once statted out Grendel (20th level half black dragon) and his Dam (great wyrm black bloodscaled fury 12). Beowulf could be statted a dozen different ways...barbarian, fighter and warblade most readily come to mind.

As I recall, Beowulf tried using a sword against Grendel (or maybe it was his Dam?), but it just snapped in half because of Beowulf's great strength. Hmm, I don't think D&D has a mechanic for being too strong for your own weapon...

[MOD]

Have any of you ever read Grendel, by John Gardner? That book always makes me feel sad.

[Ruzak]

Dragon magazine did an article with stats on Beowulf in issue 329. (March 2005)
I don't actually own this issue, so I don't know what it says.

http://paizo.com/store/magazines/dra.../v5748btpy7yda

[Tor the Fallen]

Have any of you ever read Grendel, by John Gardner? That book always makes me feel sad.

Yeah. It's a sad story.

[Matthew]

I would argue that Beowulf chose to fight Grendel unarmed because he had been informed by the Danes that weapons were useless against Grendel, who could not be harmed by any weapon forged by men. It is actually defeat that would have been almost certain if Beowulf had tried using his sword.

I don't think so. If I recall correctly, it was just good luck that he chose to fight Unarmed. His Retainers all use their Swords to no effect during the struggle, but that's just what I recall from the last time I read through it.
[/quote]

[Runolfr]

As I recall, Beowulf tried using a sword against Grendel (or maybe it was his Dam?), but it just snapped in half because of Beowulf's great strength. Hmm, I don't think D&D has a mechanic for being too strong for your own weapon...

In the epic poem, Beowulf never tried a sword against Grendel; he'd already been informed that it would be useless. He only had a dagger with him when he swam down to the lair of Grendel's mother, and it proved useless. In the lair, though, he found a sword that had been forged by giants, and he cuts her head off with it. Her blood is corrosive, however, and dissolves the blade.

You may be thinking of Siegfried, who could break any ordinary sword given to him. He had to reforge the pieces of the magic sword Balmung into a new sword called Gram to have a weapon that could survive his blows.

[Runolfr]

I don't think so. If I recall correctly, it was just good luck that he chose to fight Unarmed. His Retainers all use their Swords to no effect during the struggle, but that's just what I recall from the last time I read through it.

So, from thee,
thou sovran of the Shining-Danes,
Scyldings'-bulwark, a boon I seek, --
and, Friend-of-the-folk, refuse it not,
O Warriors'-shield, now I've wandered far, --
that I alone with my liegemen here,
this hardy band, may Heorot purge!
More I hear, that the monster dire,
in his wanton mood, of weapons recks not;
hence shall I scorn -- so Hygelac stay,
king of my kindred, kind to me! --
brand or buckler to bear in the fight,
gold-colored targe: but with gripe alone
must I front the fiend and fight for life,
foe against foe.
-- Beowulf in Hypertext, Chapter VI

[Indon]

In the epic poem, Beowulf never tried a sword against Grendel; he'd already been informed that it would be useless. He only had a dagger with him when he swam down to the lair of Grendel's mother, and it proved useless. In the lair, though, he found a sword that had been forged by giants, and he cuts her head off with it. Her blood is corrosive, however, and dissolves the blade.

Beowulf's DM was an ass.

[dual_wielder]

Sigurd had Gram

[Runolfr]

Sigurd had Gram

Sigurd and Siegfried are the same; just regional variations on the name.

[Matthew]

So, from thee,
thou sovran of the Shining-Danes,
Scyldings'-bulwark, a boon I seek, --
and, Friend-of-the-folk, refuse it not,
O Warriors'-shield, now I've wandered far, --
that I alone with my liegemen here,
this hardy band, may Heorot purge!
More I hear, that the monster dire,
in his wanton mood, of weapons recks not;
hence shall I scorn -- so Hygelac stay,
king of my kindred, kind to me! --
brand or buckler to bear in the fight,
gold-colored targe: but with gripe alone
must I front the fiend and fight for life,
foe against foe.
-- Beowulf in Hypertext, Chapter VI

As far as I can see, you are reading it wrong. That passage refers to Grendel not caring to use weapons himself, not that he is impervious to weapons. Beowulf wants a fair fight. See below for Beowulf's motivation in Chapter X:

"Of force in fight no feebler I count me,
in grim war-deeds, than Grendel deems him.
Not with the sword, then, to sleep of death
his life will I give, though it lie in my power.
No skill is his to strike against me,
my shield to hew though he hardy be,
bold in battle; we both, this night,
shall spurn the sword, if he seek me here,
unweaponed, for war. Let wisest God,
sacred Lord, on which side soever
doom decree as he deemeth right."

As you can see, beowulf considers himself capable of killing Grendel with a sword. And why would his companions attempt to strike Grendel with their Swords if it were common knowledge that he could not be harmed by them?

[Runolfr]

I correct myself. Just got to the battle with Grendel's mother, and Beowulf took Unferth's sword Hrunting into her cave, but it proved useless.

[Runolfr]

As far as I can see, you are reading it wrong. That passage refers to Grendel not caring to use weapons himself, not that he is impervious to weapons. Beowulf wants a fair fight. See below for Beowulf's motivation in Chapter X:

As you can see, beowulf considers himself capable of killing Grendel with a sword. And why would his companions attempt to strike Grendel with their Swords if it were common knowledge that he could not be harmed by them?

I see how it could be read either way, so I'll not dispute your interpretation.

[Droodle]

Why would Beowulf be a fighter? It seems to me that Barbarian would be a much better fit for him.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Dragon magazine did an article with stats on Beowulf in issue 329. (March 2005)
I don't actually own this issue, so I don't know what it says.

I have it. It's near the top of my pile at the moment, too.

But I don't want to contaminate the ideas being gnerated here. It's often so much cooler when you can come up with this stuff yourself.

[Runolfr]

Why would Beowulf be a fighter? It seems to me that Barbarian would be a much better fit for him.

You could argue for either. How would you stat him as a barbarian?

[MrNexx]

Why would Beowulf be a fighter? It seems to me that Barbarian would be a much better fit for him.

He's not a berzerker. He was noted for his great skill in combat, not for his ferocity. I'm hard-pressed to think of any hero of the Icelandic Sagas or Anglo-Saxon poetry who would be well-served by the "Barbarian" class. Egil would be the closest, though he'd also have to have some levels in a spellcasting class.

[Tor the Fallen]

He's not a berzerker. He was noted for his great skill in combat, not for his ferocity. I'm hard-pressed to think of any hero of the Icelandic Sagas or Anglo-Saxon poetry who would be well-served by the "Barbarian" class. Egil would be the closest, though he'd also have to have some levels in a spellcasting class.

What about Thor? He got angry a lot.

[MrNexx]

I said Sagas and Anglo-Saxon poetry, not Eddas. I tend to disagree with stating out deities.

[Crow]

Where is superior unarmed strike?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Where is superior unarmed strike?

Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords. Gives non-monks scaling damage for their unarmed strikes. Gives monks damage as if they were higher level.

[ForzaFiori]

Why would Beowulf be a fighter? It seems to me that Barbarian would be a much better fit for him.

Beowulf was NOT a berserker. He was a skilled fighter, like most hero's of the time. Very few Celtic hero's would be a barbarian.

also: were reading Beowulf in my english class right now. Its my...3rd time through it i think.
good story.

[Dervag]

Beowulf was NOT a berserker. He was a skilled fighter, like most hero's of the time. Very few Celtic hero's would be a barbarian.

Although Cuchulain would probably have some levels in it.

[OneWinged4ngel]

Didn't they already stat out Beowulf in Dragon Magazine?