Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

[halfeye]

Ennesby, Chinook, Petey, Cindy, and now Putzho, and I think I'm forgetting one.

Lunesby, for a second, and there are certainly more, all of the battleplates have AI of that level.

[HandofShadows]

That's not a factor of intelligence, IMO.

They're erring on the side of caution. They were only wakened post-crazy. They have no frame of reference of the original Chinook's behavior. So they're going to do the 'contain things NOW' approach.

Well, Ennesby figured out that the Chinook copy may be targeted and warned her when the Ofan was taking about surrendering even AFTER one copy had already been killed and they should have known that this copy would be targeted as well. That's not a very smart thinking.

[sihnfahl]

Well, Ennesby figured out that the Chinook copy may be targeted and warned her when the Ofan was taking about surrendering even AFTER one copy had already been killed and they should have known that this copy would be targeted as well. That's not a very smart thinking.

They wanted her to come to them quickly; leave out the stuff that would cause panic, which is what they castigated Ennesby for. No questions asked, just come quick.

That's not a lack of intelligence; it's a lack of wisdom and charisma. Wisdom knowing when to get someone running, charisma to get them to come to you when it's all done.

[Onyavar]

(Ennesby, Chinook, Petey, Cindy, and now Putzho, and I think I'm forgetting one.)

Haban, Lota, Lunesby, Tailor, the Hive, several Ventura projects. The All-Star is also out there as a big unknown.

The question is which of these AI count as super geniuses acc. to your definition.

Ennesby, Taylor, Cindy, the Hive nodes etc. are small fishes. Lota, Haban, Chinook are players of more importance. I can't exactly place the Combined Old Oafans, but I still think Petey outranks them in the sectors of energy/production power/political clout/thinkpower. While the All-Star is supreme in its thinkpower, they could split off Putzho as some sort of scout without losing anything - and Putzho seems to be smarter than the Oafan-mind and on a level with Petey.

Oh well. The meat-sophonts are only still in the story because we readers can relate to them. The real plot is AI only. Let's see if HT will turn that around (He has done that before).

[Drascin]

Petey seems to need Kevyn pretty urgently, I'm gathering.

[halfeye]

Petey seems to need Kevyn pretty urgently, I'm gathering.

Strange that he's not making more use of the one he already has.

[Rockphed]

Strange that he's not making more use of the one he already has.

I think this Kevyn might be needed for "keeping Elf from figuring out how to go on a rampage" duty.

[HandofShadows]

I think this Kevyn might be needed for "keeping Elf from figuring out how to go on a rampage" duty.

While the reason might be Elf, I don't think it's to stop her from going on a rampage. Elf seems more depressed than anything.

[halfeye]

I think this Kevyn might be needed for "keeping Elf from figuring out how to go on a rampage" duty.

Elf on a rampage would be trivial, she destroyed one (two?) small ship (s?) without killing all the crew.

Kevyn is probably needed to target tha Andromedan long gun. So why is the Kevyn Petey already has not elbows deep in that? Or a couple of dozen Gavs? The Gavs aren't quite Kevyns, but there are enough of them to make up the difference.

[HandofShadows]

Petey said that the reason for accelerating his revival was that he was important but that Kevyn's ego would deflate when he was put to work.

[Ibrinar]

Elf on a rampage would be trivial, she destroyed one (two?) small ship (s?) without killing all the crew.

Kevyn is probably needed to target tha Andromedan long gun. So why is the Kevyn Petey already has not elbows deep in that? Or a couple of dozen Gavs? The Gavs aren't quite Kevyns, but there are enough of them to make up the difference.

You know one problem with a genius still mattering and having the tech to rebuild bodies: Why not just build an army of him? I guess he might not like that though.

[HandofShadows]

Kinda like ninja's I think. One is all powerful, but a bunch of them are canon fodder. (Inverse ninja law)

[Willie the Duck]

You know one problem with a genius still mattering and having the tech to rebuild bodies: Why not just build an army of him? I guess he might not like that though.

Despite Petey being a pretty big situational-ethics and utilitarian kind of guy (to the point where some of us wondered if he'd end up being a villain in the end), Petey has occasionally shown signs of sometimes being that guy who would risk losing a war to ensure that he didn't win it by violating his own ethics. Maybe he's decided that Kevyn didn't want to be Gavved (yes, I have decided that's the verb for getting massively multiple copies of yourself made), and that's final.

[Rockphed]

Despite Petey being a pretty big situational-ethics and utilitarian kind of guy (to the point where some of us wondered if he'd end up being a villain in the end), Petey has occasionally shown signs of sometimes being that guy who would risk losing a war to ensure that he didn't win it by violating his own ethics. Maybe he's decided that Kevyn didn't want to be Gavved (yes, I have decided that's the verb for getting massively multiple copies of yourself made), and that's final.

I am fairly certain that the only effective way to Gav someone is to do it like Gav.

As to why he doesn't just make an army of Kevyns, I can assume that it has to do with this Kevyn being married to Elf. I foresee problems if you tried to make an army of Kevyns and not an army of Elfs, and even more problems if you tried to make an army of Elfs to go with it.

And the ethics of cloning people without their consent. I assume that that is involved.

[Ibrinar]

Already has an unmarried version at hand though. I am not sure whether he would actually refuse hard to tell how people react to the concept of getting mass cloned.

[Lizard Lord]

Already has an unmarried version at hand though. I am not sure whether he would actually refuse hard to tell how people react to the concept of getting mass cloned.

Well the Gavs hated it enough that they were willing to completely and randomly rewrite their D.N.A. and memories with experimental nanite technology. Which didn't go well for them.

[Rockphed]

Well the Gavs hated it enough that they were willing to completely and randomly rewrite their D.N.A. and memories with experimental nanite technology. Which didn't go well for them.

Some of the Gavs did that. I think Gavs are still the largest single species in the galaxy, even after years of attrition.

[guttering flame]

Do we know how many wives/husbands keep a secret clone in the other apartment?

[Lizard Lord]

Some of the Gavs did that. I think Gavs are still the largest single species in the galaxy, even after years of attrition.

Does the fact that it wasn't all Gavs really detract from my point?

Also, given that they are all copies and the fact that they are all likely to make the same decisions is why the process had to be randomized, how much of that is due to a lack of opportunity rather than a lack of desire? They could only change so many at a time, other Gavs had duties in other places in the galaxy, and the whole operation didn't last that long before it was revealed to have been hacked.

After said hacking I am pretty sure 0% of Gavs wanted to risk a similar operation.

[Rockphed]

Does the fact that it wasn't all Gavs really detract from my point?

Also, given that they are all copies and the fact that they are all likely to make the same decisions is why the process had to be randomized, how much of that is due to a lack of opportunity rather than a lack of desire? They could only change so many at a time, other Gavs had duties in other places in the galaxy, and the whole operation didn't last that long before it was revealed to have been hacked.

After said hacking I am pretty sure 0% of Gavs wanted to risk a similar operation.

One of the Gavs came out and said "I think you lot are crazy" before the hacking came to light.

[Willie the Duck]

Some of the Gavs did that. I think Gavs are still the largest single species in the galaxy, even after years of attrition.

950 million isn't even the biggest species of humans now. He's the largest single demographic, or something like that.

Already has an unmarried version at hand though. I am not sure whether he would actually refuse hard to tell how people react to the concept of getting mass cloned.

Can't do an archive trawl right now, but Kevyn stated (before he got a time clone) that he was glad he didn't do what Gav did because one of him was enough.

[keybounce]

Maybe he's decided that Kevyn didn't want to be Gavved (yes, I have decided that's the verb for getting massively multiple copies of yourself made), and that's final.

Can't do an archive trawl right now, but Kevyn stated (before he got a time clone) that he was glad he didn't do what Gav did because one of him was enough.

Exactly. Kevyn decided he did not want to be Gav'd. Petey is honoring that decision.

Petey does honor free will. He just helps you to make the right choice -- see Vog, etc.

[Psionic Dog]

Petey seems to need Kevyn pretty urgently, I'm gathering.

He's desperate. Schlock AIs may be excellent at evaluating known risks, known possible solutions, and then running simulations on all probabilistic variables for those risks/solutions, but they haven't proven any better than the meat-sofants when it comes to lateral thinking, leaping to unsupported but correct conclusions, or innovation.

Kevyn has a proven ability to think around implied paradoxes, past convincing coincidences, and otherwise find Galaxy/Sanity saving solutions. Unfortunately the time clone also got stuck after recognizing the problem so Petey's now gambling on the differentiated baseline finding the next step to solving the current existential crisis.

[Rockphed]

He's desperate. Schlock AIs may be excellent at evaluating known risks, known possible solutions, and then running simulations on all probabilistic variables for those risks/solutions, but they haven't proven any better than the meat-sofants when it comes to lateral thinking, leaping to unsupported but correct conclusions, or innovation.

Kevyn has a proven ability to think around implied paradoxes, past convincing coincidences, and otherwise find Galaxy/Sanity saving solutions. Unfortunately the time clone also got stuck after recognizing the problem so Petey's now gambling on the differentiated baseline finding the next step to solving the current existential crisis.

Alternatively, the genius they need to solve this problem is Eleanor Foxworthy. Elf has a proven ability to think on her feet, especially when technology intersects with warfare.

[The Glyphstone]

Alternatively, the genius they need to solve this problem is Eleanor Foxworthy. Elf has a proven ability to think on her feet, especially when technology intersects with warfare.

That seems like Howard's style. Kevyn thinks he's been decanted for his brain, when all Petey actually needed was to get El out of her funk.

[Rockphed]

That seems like Howard's style. Kevyn thinks he's been decanted for his brain, when all Petey actually needed was to get El out of her funk.

Which will thoroughly deflate his ego!

[Onyavar]

Wait a moment, I thought that spinning the individual spindle cities around like that was the solution to an engineering problem which couldn't be solved with a single rotation frame. I thought it was quite an interesting move away from the "self-gravitating space stations are best if they are rotating wheels".

The look that old Kevyn (who KNOWS about wheel stations as well as Petey does) gives our female new face (do we have a name yet?), indicates that he hasn't even thought about a wheel city.
Well, if that's what he is going to design, he should go for a large wheel structure first, consisting of several gigantic wheels that all go around the same axis. To hide it better, it should be surrounded with a sturdy frame, resulting in a cylindrical structure. Then, he can fill this cylinder with athmosphere, so that the inhabitants lose the "space station" feel and can live like on a big planet.

For optimal durability, this proposed megastructure should of course be built completely out of PTUs.

[Wayson]

Wait a moment, I thought that spinning the individual spindle cities around like that was the solution to an engineering problem which couldn't be solved with a single rotation frame. I thought it was quite an interesting move away from the "self-gravitating space stations are best if they are rotating wheels".

The look that old Kevyn (who KNOWS about wheel stations as well as Petey does) gives our female new face (do we have a name yet?), indicates that he hasn't even thought about a wheel city.
Well, if that's what he is going to design, he should go for a large wheel structure first, consisting of several gigantic wheels that all go around the same axis. To hide it better, it should be surrounded with a sturdy frame, resulting in a cylindrical structure. Then, he can fill this cylinder with athmosphere, so that the inhabitants lose the "space station" feel and can live like on a big planet.

For optimal durability, this proposed megastructure should of course be built completely out of PTUs.

So basically a can in space, filled with sky...?

[guttering flame]

With artificial gravity wheel space station are so outdated they're brilliant new ideas again.

There material costs: how much scaffolding to hold out a livable outer ring versus the engine + string? I guess a lot more.
Maneuverability: the wheel could accelerate on its side but the internal orientation needs to change each time.

One big possible advantage: no risk of the string tangling up on itself or on other bodies.

[Willie the Duck]

So basically a can in space, filled with sky...?

Or 'our last best hope for peace,' take your pick.

With artificial gravity wheel space station are so outdated they're brilliant new ideas again.

There material costs: how much scaffolding to hold out a livable outer ring versus the engine + string? I guess a lot more.
Maneuverability: the wheel could accelerate on its side but the internal orientation needs to change each time.

One big possible advantage: no risk of the string tangling up on itself or on other bodies.

The primary advantage (other than having different gravities at different levels, which can be an advantage onto itself) is compactness. Rings, Tubes, Spheres, what-have-you, they all maximize the surface area of the thing, giving all sorts of opportunities for breaches and the like. I suppose since long-guns are the new threat of the era, and all successful attacks seem to be total-destruction, that's less of an issue.